Anyone Want To Know... ???
- Thread starter RainmanTime
- Start date
wa1ex
Temporal Navigator
Re: Please Take This Poll
Well The following have contributed so far to the post:
Rainman Time
Tikmovado
iridium
CAT
OllyB
timeline79
Good_Scientist
roorichard
creedo299
atticus
zerubbabel
TTA_01
OvLrdLegion
wa1ex
14 people and only 7 have replied....1 more vote for the poll? is that ok?
Well The following have contributed so far to the post:
Rainman Time
Tikmovado
iridium
CAT
OllyB
timeline79
Good_Scientist
roorichard
creedo299
atticus
zerubbabel
TTA_01
OvLrdLegion
wa1ex
14 people and only 7 have replied....1 more vote for the poll? is that ok?
RainmanTime
Super Moderator
Re: Please Take This Poll
In fact, to suggest (not dictate) an answer to Olly's question, I would say we wait until we get at least another 7 votes. It may be seven of the people in the above list, or it might be another 7 people who have lurked but never responded. But it seems to me it would be a reasonable number to wait to be achieved. What do you think?
And to the friends on the above list (and other friends) I'd hope we can count on your vote, whatever it might be.
RMT
Wa1ex you are very wise in your presentation of the statistical facts. A very scientific approach. And I agree with it wholeheartedly.
In fact, to suggest (not dictate) an answer to Olly's question, I would say we wait until we get at least another 7 votes. It may be seven of the people in the above list, or it might be another 7 people who have lurked but never responded. But it seems to me it would be a reasonable number to wait to be achieved. What do you think?
And to the friends on the above list (and other friends) I'd hope we can count on your vote, whatever it might be.
RMT
KerrTexas
Super Moderator
Re: Please Take This Poll
Er...if you are referring to the poll that Rainmantime posted in this thread, I did vote.
and that all I have to say about that..
I havent really posted anything beyond what Ray has done, since I know where he is headed, and I dont want anything I may post to interfere with his direction.
He is doing a grand job, and I am happy to see others taking an interest in what is being placed before them.
Er...if you are referring to the poll that Rainmantime posted in this thread, I did vote.
and that all I have to say about that..
I havent really posted anything beyond what Ray has done, since I know where he is headed, and I dont want anything I may post to interfere with his direction.
He is doing a grand job, and I am happy to see others taking an interest in what is being placed before them.
RainmanTime
Super Moderator
Re: Please Take This Poll
This thread is an active Creation-In-Progress (CIP).
It can be mathematically shown that the "end" of this thread is known and complete at some TIME in the future. I can guarantee this fact shall come to pass. It is the way of Creation.
Here in the present, some of us may have some very good ideas (INTENTIONS?) where this thread may "end". Others have present thoughts, and perhaps even present wishes or hopes where this thread might "end".
Those who contribute to this thread have ACTIVELY assisted in its Creation.
Those who have lurked here have played a NEUTRAL role in its Creation. and...
Those who have never read this have been PASSIVE in its Creation.
I "know" the future of this thread because I am helping to Create it. Others who are also helping to Create it "know" the future of this thread. And in our contributions to this thread we are expressing that "knowingness" as we actually DO Create it over Space & Time.
To tie-in to a suspiciously nonsensical thread hereabouts: Do you see a pattern in how this thread is evolving, and how the human being and species has evolved?
There is a pattern. And it is the same pattern that governs not only the pyramid, but also the unique Matrix architecture of each and every human body.
It is so "obvious" but only to those who have spent the time to investigate and study the universal mapping nature of this "special" 3x3 Matrix Architecture.
RMT
This thread is an active Creation-In-Progress (CIP).
It can be mathematically shown that the "end" of this thread is known and complete at some TIME in the future. I can guarantee this fact shall come to pass. It is the way of Creation.
Here in the present, some of us may have some very good ideas (INTENTIONS?) where this thread may "end". Others have present thoughts, and perhaps even present wishes or hopes where this thread might "end".
Those who contribute to this thread have ACTIVELY assisted in its Creation.
Those who have lurked here have played a NEUTRAL role in its Creation. and...
Those who have never read this have been PASSIVE in its Creation.
I "know" the future of this thread because I am helping to Create it. Others who are also helping to Create it "know" the future of this thread. And in our contributions to this thread we are expressing that "knowingness" as we actually DO Create it over Space & Time.
To tie-in to a suspiciously nonsensical thread hereabouts: Do you see a pattern in how this thread is evolving, and how the human being and species has evolved?
There is a pattern. And it is the same pattern that governs not only the pyramid, but also the unique Matrix architecture of each and every human body.
It is so "obvious" but only to those who have spent the time to investigate and study the universal mapping nature of this "special" 3x3 Matrix Architecture.
RMT
Re: ElectroMagnetic Waves & DNA Double Helix
Well, this seems to be quite the “think tank†of acquiring possibly forbidden knowledge /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif. Interesting concepts I must say, even though borderline Pseudo-NewAge: telepathy, ElectroMagnetism and Gravity. Ok, the TTA is game, I would like to see where this is heading, I casted my vote.
Psy wave transmission to group:
>~>~>Can you hear me now?
Good
!<~<~<
TTA
Well, this seems to be quite the “think tank†of acquiring possibly forbidden knowledge /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif. Interesting concepts I must say, even though borderline Pseudo-NewAge: telepathy, ElectroMagnetism and Gravity. Ok, the TTA is game, I would like to see where this is heading, I casted my vote.
Psy wave transmission to group:
>~>~>Can you hear me now?
Good
TTA
RainmanTime
Super Moderator
Re: ElectroMagnetic Waves & DNA Double Helix
While we're waiting for the poll to round-out so we can move-on with Olly's thoughts on E/M and gravity, we can tidy up some issues AND provide some excellent background scientific reading material on how the form of the vortex relates to universal energy measures. First things first:
Requestor: "Radio check"
Respondent: "Loud & Clear"
Now, some reading material... THIS page may provide some interesting science reading that discusses how the basic concept of the measurement of Energy is directly related to vortex dynamics. It is also interesting to note that the author outlines how these concepts of Energy and vortices are naturally in a fractal hierarchy such that larger forms have smaller forms embedded within them... at all "levels" of universal structure as we know it. It is also interesting to read what the author writes about how vortices relate to the Merkaba geometric form:
RMT
While we're waiting for the poll to round-out so we can move-on with Olly's thoughts on E/M and gravity, we can tidy up some issues AND provide some excellent background scientific reading material on how the form of the vortex relates to universal energy measures. First things first:
But clearly you cannot pin such a judgement on this provided we can exhibit scientific analysis and reasoning to back it up, right? I would share certain dissenting views about some forms of "New Age" teachings where those teachings cannot be grounded in science. But what is wrong with something that sounds "New Agey" but can definitely be grounded in accepted science?
Just a little aviation/aerospace history related to your play-on the annoying Verizon Wireless ad campaign. What many people don't understand is that the basis of this ad campaign was actually something well established in the aerospace communications realm well before wireless phones ever came onto the scene. Part of the standard flight vernacular that all pilots and astronauts are taught relates to round-trip radio comm checks. The script looks virtually identical to our geeky Verizon friend, but with different words:
Requestor: "Radio check"
Respondent: "Loud & Clear"
Now, some reading material... THIS page may provide some interesting science reading that discusses how the basic concept of the measurement of Energy is directly related to vortex dynamics. It is also interesting to note that the author outlines how these concepts of Energy and vortices are naturally in a fractal hierarchy such that larger forms have smaller forms embedded within them... at all "levels" of universal structure as we know it. It is also interesting to read what the author writes about how vortices relate to the Merkaba geometric form:
RMT
Re: ElectroMagnetic Waves & DNA Double Helix
Side note post (i doubt that many will be interesting in this small diversion):
So, as we are designed under the pyramid system, and this system allows a two way path in/out of this domain. It also seems that informational energy is creating and sustaining this system (i.e. thought).
Seeing as we are, what we think we are - then we are also informational energy (thought). So all this means, is to realise this and send the some of our intention (ourselves/ informational energy) back through the channels.
Well, No! there seems to be a factor that prevents us from doing this with immediate conscious effect. Another aspect of our(-)selves!
Even Freud's map of the human mind was missing a few volumes. in fact, i think perhaps much more.
Can anyone identify the pad-lock on the doorway, and does that man/woman have a gun?
Well, if they do - i know i can stop posting here, and something tells me a handful of others could stop reading!
This is the optimal way, to change the operational effects of the "functional" domain(s). Or whatever your particular term is for this reality.
Are there any other people people lurking out there that take this subject seriously enough to look into it further. Especially Brit based Psychologists?!
Of course, this can only go so far before integrating other areas (potentially 2 major ones specifically). I'd certainly like to receive a PM from people that are interested in this subject. Especially the group i just mentioned.
Kind regards
Olly
Ray, I shall read your link and get back to this thread tomorrow night!
Side note post (i doubt that many will be interesting in this small diversion):
So, as we are designed under the pyramid system, and this system allows a two way path in/out of this domain. It also seems that informational energy is creating and sustaining this system (i.e. thought).
Seeing as we are, what we think we are - then we are also informational energy (thought). So all this means, is to realise this and send the some of our intention (ourselves/ informational energy) back through the channels.
Well, No! there seems to be a factor that prevents us from doing this with immediate conscious effect. Another aspect of our(-)selves!
Even Freud's map of the human mind was missing a few volumes. in fact, i think perhaps much more.
Can anyone identify the pad-lock on the doorway, and does that man/woman have a gun?
Well, if they do - i know i can stop posting here, and something tells me a handful of others could stop reading!
This is the optimal way, to change the operational effects of the "functional" domain(s). Or whatever your particular term is for this reality.
Are there any other people people lurking out there that take this subject seriously enough to look into it further. Especially Brit based Psychologists?!
Of course, this can only go so far before integrating other areas (potentially 2 major ones specifically). I'd certainly like to receive a PM from people that are interested in this subject. Especially the group i just mentioned.
Kind regards
Olly
Ray, I shall read your link and get back to this thread tomorrow night!
Re: ElectroMagnetic Waves & DNA Double Helix
There are some things I’d like to shed light on in compass to the conversation…
I’d like to point out that the Great Pyramid secret is not only its outside shape, but within its chambers…
Phi and Golden Mean Spiral coincide:
The Temple mount (which was the resting place of the Ark of the Covenant):
http://www.recoveredscience.com/const308TempleLayout.htm
This spiral is a very important symbolic and mathematical measurement… not only is it evident in the pyramid but it is parallel to our own creation and existence in the universe according to NASA… http://weboflife.nasa.gov/currentResearch/currentResearchFlight/sts107SeekingTheLight.htm
Here is the picture of spirals forming in space:
Our entire human nervous system is built of these spirals…
http://www.bionicear.org/bei/ResHiFiBionicEars.html
And what’s more, if you want to predict the future stock market:
http://ermanometry.com/ermtry/article2.htm
The main and most important question we should be asking, is “why†spirals are so important to life? Is it because this is an “organizing†system that is needed to harbor life and to give us the illusion of time passing?
There are some things I’d like to shed light on in compass to the conversation…
I’d like to point out that the Great Pyramid secret is not only its outside shape, but within its chambers…
Phi and Golden Mean Spiral coincide:
The Temple mount (which was the resting place of the Ark of the Covenant):
http://www.recoveredscience.com/const308TempleLayout.htm
This spiral is a very important symbolic and mathematical measurement… not only is it evident in the pyramid but it is parallel to our own creation and existence in the universe according to NASA… http://weboflife.nasa.gov/currentResearch/currentResearchFlight/sts107SeekingTheLight.htm
Here is the picture of spirals forming in space:
Our entire human nervous system is built of these spirals…
http://www.bionicear.org/bei/ResHiFiBionicEars.html
And what’s more, if you want to predict the future stock market:
http://ermanometry.com/ermtry/article2.htm
The main and most important question we should be asking, is “why†spirals are so important to life? Is it because this is an “organizing†system that is needed to harbor life and to give us the illusion of time passing?
RainmanTime
Super Moderator
Qabalistic Dynamics & Our Four Bodies
Ollster (you don't mind if I am a little less formal, do you?) /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif
INTENTION ->Information->Energy->Force/Momentum->Physicality.
The human species (each and every One of Us) actually possess FOUR, PARALLEL-OPERATING Bodies:
1) The Information Body -
SPIRIT. The "material" that makes up the Body of Spirit is Information, which exists beyond Time and the Energy Body. Responds to INTENTION by controlling the Energy Body. Responds to the Energy Body by modifying base Information composition.
2) The Energy Body -
SOUL. The "material" that makes up the Body of Soul is Energy, which is dependent upon Time but exists beyond the Momentum Body. Responds to the Information Body by controlling the Momentum Body. Responds to the Momentum Body by modifying base Energy composition.
3) The Momentum Body -
MIND. The "material" that makes up the Body of Mind is Momentum, which is dependent upon Time but exists beyond the Physical Body. Responds to the Energy Body by controlling the Physical Body. Responds to the Physical Body by modifying base Momentum composition.
4) The Physical Body -
MASSIVE SPACETIME. The "material" that makes up the Physical Body is the Integrated Matrix of Massive SpaceTime. The physical universe (Matter expressed in Motion) responds to the Inputs from the Momentum Body by Creating a Physical Event. The physical universe also provides Outputs of Mass, Space, and Time feedback upwards to the Momentum Body.
We modify Massive SpaceTime by application of INTENTION to the Information Body, which acts upon the Energy Body, which acts upon the Momentum Body, which Creates events in Massive SpaceTime.
Massive SpaceTime responds to our manipulations by affecting changes to our Momentum Body, which affects our Energy Body, which affects our Information Body, which helps us modify our INTENTION.
The above represents the Closed Loop of Creation.
OK, I think I've babbled on enough in this reply. Anyone got any comments? Or even better: Does anyone think they can falsify my model of our Four Bodies?
RMT
Ollster (you don't mind if I am a little less formal, do you?) /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif
I don't know about that. You'd be amazed at what richness we can find in seemingly uninteresting side notes!
Right on, you get the "embedded system within system" model we are discussing. And let me again point out that the human body exhibits the physical geometrodynamical model that I have come to call the Qabalistic Dynamical Model (QDM). In essence, what I am pointing out here is that where some people think of Qabalah as "New Age Mystical Fluff", I can provide massive (spacetime) amounts of evidence to show how Qabalah really represents a highly advanced, systems-within-systems non-linear dynamics model. The QDM can accurately model spiral dynamics, and the platonic solids, because that is what the QDM is comprised of in its own configuration.
As a result of these words from you, and the appearance of another thread by T12, I think it is time to share a clearer view of where this thread is going. I intend to do this by tying it into another thread I started with regard to
INTENTION ->Information->Energy->Force/Momentum->Physicality.
The human species (each and every One of Us) actually possess FOUR, PARALLEL-OPERATING Bodies:
1) The Information Body -
SPIRIT. The "material" that makes up the Body of Spirit is Information, which exists beyond Time and the Energy Body. Responds to INTENTION by controlling the Energy Body. Responds to the Energy Body by modifying base Information composition.
2) The Energy Body -
SOUL. The "material" that makes up the Body of Soul is Energy, which is dependent upon Time but exists beyond the Momentum Body. Responds to the Information Body by controlling the Momentum Body. Responds to the Momentum Body by modifying base Energy composition.
3) The Momentum Body -
MIND. The "material" that makes up the Body of Mind is Momentum, which is dependent upon Time but exists beyond the Physical Body. Responds to the Energy Body by controlling the Physical Body. Responds to the Physical Body by modifying base Momentum composition.
4) The Physical Body -
MASSIVE SPACETIME. The "material" that makes up the Physical Body is the Integrated Matrix of Massive SpaceTime. The physical universe (Matter expressed in Motion) responds to the Inputs from the Momentum Body by Creating a Physical Event. The physical universe also provides Outputs of Mass, Space, and Time feedback upwards to the Momentum Body.
We modify Massive SpaceTime by application of INTENTION to the Information Body, which acts upon the Energy Body, which acts upon the Momentum Body, which Creates events in Massive SpaceTime.
Massive SpaceTime responds to our manipulations by affecting changes to our Momentum Body, which affects our Energy Body, which affects our Information Body, which helps us modify our INTENTION.
The above represents the Closed Loop of Creation.
IMO, Freud did an admirable job of defining and modeling the subconscious, which is what I align to the SOUL in the above dynamical hierarchy. (Id-Ego-Superego) is a perfect trinity (-0+) model, and the subconscious mathematically maps directly onto the middle triad of spheres in the Tree Of Life. But you are right, Olly, Freud only did one part of the mind. I think the "four bodies" model you see above is a bit more complete... and it aligns with a significant body (PUN INTENDED!) of ancient knowledge that stretches back to.... yes... the time of the Pyramids.
The 4-level model I present above allows "optimization" at any of the four Body-levels. Inevitably, what we find out about Nature, is that when we seek to optimize one aspect of our reality, we lose optimization of some other aspect of reality. (REF: Heisenburg Uncertainty) This again points to an Embedded, Balanced, Symmetric, Geometrodynamical model of "Everything". /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif
I certainly hope so... otherwise it is just going to be you, me, CAT, and a few others "talking to ourselves". Hmmmm.... in fact, that's not such a bad idea all by itself! /ttiforum/images/graemlins/yum.gif
OK, I think I've babbled on enough in this reply. Anyone got any comments? Or even better: Does anyone think they can falsify my model of our Four Bodies?
RMT
Re: Qabalistic Dynamics & Our Four Bodies
My laptop is dying a death and needs to go to the laptop hospital tomorrow. So i have to make this quick before it forgets its running off Windows and falls asleep for the night.
Howdy ray;
I dont think i would dispute your model. Also i had not heard ot the 'Momentum' body as you have described it, however i think its the best description i have read regarding the mind existing beyond the physical but stil being linked to its effects and subject to time. I think alot of people view the 'mind' as the last stop - which couldn't be more wrong! And i think that this is a very concise clear description.
Before (in my side note) - i was just starting to throw out there the one problem we have with this information. And that is, how do we measure that our theories are correct and likely the true models indicating 'truth'.
We can certainly observe (especially now with the help of modern science) the greater universe on the macro level, and even on the sub-atomic level.
But when we shall really know we are getting somewhere, is when we can interact and put into practice our theories. Only Its is a murky and clouded route back to Intention (or the origin of thought/us). I think later on we shouldn't forget we will need to address; how we are going to use of all this information that had been put here and begin to apply it actively.
I can personally think of a couple of ways (likely involving 3 subject areas) - but i think in a forum its would be incredibly hard to put it into practise...Also i think in some ways we are starting to go a little beyond technology, which was only to be expected.
Anyway i better post this before i get kicked off!
Kind regards,
Olly
My laptop is dying a death and needs to go to the laptop hospital tomorrow. So i have to make this quick before it forgets its running off Windows and falls asleep for the night.
Howdy ray;
I dont think i would dispute your model. Also i had not heard ot the 'Momentum' body as you have described it, however i think its the best description i have read regarding the mind existing beyond the physical but stil being linked to its effects and subject to time. I think alot of people view the 'mind' as the last stop - which couldn't be more wrong! And i think that this is a very concise clear description.
Before (in my side note) - i was just starting to throw out there the one problem we have with this information. And that is, how do we measure that our theories are correct and likely the true models indicating 'truth'.
We can certainly observe (especially now with the help of modern science) the greater universe on the macro level, and even on the sub-atomic level.
But when we shall really know we are getting somewhere, is when we can interact and put into practice our theories. Only Its is a murky and clouded route back to Intention (or the origin of thought/us). I think later on we shouldn't forget we will need to address; how we are going to use of all this information that had been put here and begin to apply it actively.
I can personally think of a couple of ways (likely involving 3 subject areas) - but i think in a forum its would be incredibly hard to put it into practise...Also i think in some ways we are starting to go a little beyond technology, which was only to be expected.
Anyway i better post this before i get kicked off!
Kind regards,
Olly
Re: Qabalistic Dynamics & Our Four Bodies
To reiterate - I suppose i am trying to ask you, Ray, do you also intend to look at how to intelligently and consciously interact and 'program' your model you have outlined here?
Obiously 99.99% of us (at least) cannot do this exstenively in our current situation.
I'd be quite happy to move this to email or PM if you wanted to speak in private about your thoughts before putting them on here. i know i might!
just let me know
Kindest regards,
Olly
To reiterate - I suppose i am trying to ask you, Ray, do you also intend to look at how to intelligently and consciously interact and 'program' your model you have outlined here?
Obiously 99.99% of us (at least) cannot do this exstenively in our current situation.
I'd be quite happy to move this to email or PM if you wanted to speak in private about your thoughts before putting them on here. i know i might!
just let me know
Kindest regards,
Olly
RainmanTime
Super Moderator
Re: Qabalistic Dynamics & Our Four Bodies
Hi Olly,
I'll have more thoughts to share over this weekend...but thought I would give a few quick thoughts on this:
More later...
RMT
Hi Olly,
I'll have more thoughts to share over this weekend...but thought I would give a few quick thoughts on this:
Yes, we can certainly "go there" in this thread. And some might be interested to learn how such a "programming" activity relates to many spiritual traditions. Yet it all boils down to raising ones awareness before you can ever "program" on those levels above Mind (Momentum Body). Probing the subconscious (Soul or Energy Body) is one technique, and dream journaling and dream experimentation is another. And the good news is that ALL of these techniques can (and should) be approached in a scientific manner in terms of defining experimental objectives, collecting data, and performing post-experiment data analysis.
More later...
RMT
Re: Qabalistic Dynamics & Our Four Bodies
Sorry for the delay. I had life keep me from posting.
I feel with my lack of knowledge on this subject I could not add any information to move this in any direction.
However I have always been intrigued by the existence of the pyramids. I choose (o).
Sorry for the delay. I had life keep me from posting.
I feel with my lack of knowledge on this subject I could not add any information to move this in any direction.
However I have always been intrigued by the existence of the pyramids. I choose (o).
zerubbabel
Chrono Cadet
Re: Qabalistic Dynamics & Our Four Bodies
Greetings Ray,
As you know, I frequently lurk and allow time to pass to get the general gist of where particular mindsets may be heading (which have been very intuitive, by the way). I love ironies, as you know, and the ironies here seem to be coalescing into a very interesting pattern. Here is where it has led me to investigate--which, ironically has always been a bit of a puzzle to me as to what its significance was--not just spiritually or morally, but physically as well. Ironically (again), it fits in quite nicely with its mirror images; namely, "no-thing", "no-name" etc. These are null values (simply because they cannot be given attributes), and the null value of work is simply rest--the antithesis of every expression of matter, space or time. The seventh expression of creation was simply rest. Thus, the divine command to observe "REST" and "enter into rest" is much more than a spiritual commandment to honor the creator, or a moral commandment to alleviate the work of man 1 day out of seven, it is an ARROW which points to eternal rest--otherwise known as timelessness or "heaven" which is a "forever" place. It is the "non-note" that gives form to all the others.
Also Cat's excellent graphic representations tied in the possiblities of the "strings" spanning the dimensional divides--alternating from symmetry to chaos and back again. Of course, we cannot really "see" the zero-point fluctuations, but our minds have this incredible pattern-filling capability to "go where no one has gone before". We can give shape to the shapeless, a name to the nameless. After all, that is exactly what we did with the zero.
Never before have I ever conceived that "perfect rest" could actually be the catalyst for "universal motion". So superspace now has a new dimension to it --a null attribute that, by its own nature, is capable of completely absorbing a collapsed sun--only to reshape it somewhere else in zero-point space. The question naturally arose as to what parameters need to be met to successfully sail the quantum seas. It is no coincidence that in the final analysis, it comes down to mind--and this is exactly what Torah is all about--training the mind in ways that are not natural to us. We do quite well on our own with just instinctual use of our "gifts", but if there is anything the universe has taught us, it is that everything works by "recipes" and that it is rationally intelligible. Therefore, there is definitely a recipe for defeating time.
This is something I posted on sciforums a while back and I think is relevant to what you're saying:
Allan Sandage(Astronomer)
Out of the big bang has come a non-chaotic system, because otherwise, cause and effect which surely exists would be impossible. So the design one sees in the universe may be completely natural as an outcome of the differential equations. The mystery is: why is the world describable in terms of differential equations—and it is. That’s the answer physics gives. All students that ever study are mystified by the great recipes that science have found., but the universe works by those recipes. So the universe we observe is not a chance phenomena. (THIS IS FAITH)
Stephen Hawking
From the age of 13 or 14 , I wanted to know how the universe worked and why, and why it is what it is. Now I have some idea how the universe works, but I really still do not understand—I really still do not understand why.(THIS IS FAITH)
Leon Lederman(Physicist)
The trouble we’re in now—this standard model—this standard picture, is very elegant and very powerful. But it’s not complete. It’s incomplete and has some flaws. One of its greatest flaws is one which is hard to explain. It’s an aesthetic flaw. It’s too complicated, and has too many arbitrary parameters—too many fluctuating limits. We don’t really see the creator twiddling twenty knobs and twenty parameters in the universe as we know it. That’s too many. Ever since the Greeks started us on this road to understanding the atom, the fundamental building blocks of the universe, we’ve had this predjudice that there’s something simple underneath all of this. Now 6 quarks and 6 leptons and all their antiparticles and their coming in different colors and charges is too complicated., and there’s a deep feeling the picture is not beautiful.; and that drive for beauty, simplicity and symmetry has been an unfailing drive as to how to go in physics.
Steven Weinberg(Physicist)(THIS IS FAITH)
We haven’t come to the bottom level yet. But as we approach it, intimations of an underlying beautiful theory whose beauty we can only dimly see at the present time. We don’t know that its true. We don’t know that there is a beautiful underlying theory. We don’t know that as a species we are smart enough to learn what it is. But we do know that if we don’t assume that there is a beautiful underlying theory, and assume that we’re smart enough to find out what it is—we never will. (THIS IS FAITH)
John Wheeler(Physicist)
To my mind, at the bottom of it all must be—not an utterly beautiful equation, but an utterly simple idea—and to me that idea when we finally discover it will be so compelling, so inevitable, so beautiful, that we will say to each other—how could it have been otherwise. (THIS IS FAITH)
Timothy Ferris(Cosmologist)
In the Judeo/Christian tradition, creation involved order from chaos and light from darkness. Religion and Science have sometimes been depicted as opponents, but science owes a great deal to religion. Modern Science began with the renaissance of the old Greek idea that nature is rationally intelligible. But Science from the beginning incorporated another idea that the universe really is a universe.—ruled by a single set of laws and science got that idea from the Judeo/Christian belief in one God. Now the men that discovered many of the laws of nature—the founders of modern science like Kepler, Copernicus, and Isaac Newton and Gallileo(with all his troubles with the church) were profoundly religious men. In the modern scientific research, especially unified theory, testifies to the triumph of the old idea that the universe may be ruled by a single and elegantly beautiful principle.(THIS IS FAITH)
Can you perceive of null-velociy, null-momemtum, etc? Ironically (there's that word again), trying to "look" at anything null seems to (via imagination) be "full" of stuff with really weird connections to "known" space/time/matter. The plot thickens.....
Greetings Ray,
As you know, I frequently lurk and allow time to pass to get the general gist of where particular mindsets may be heading (which have been very intuitive, by the way). I love ironies, as you know, and the ironies here seem to be coalescing into a very interesting pattern. Here is where it has led me to investigate--which, ironically has always been a bit of a puzzle to me as to what its significance was--not just spiritually or morally, but physically as well. Ironically (again), it fits in quite nicely with its mirror images; namely, "no-thing", "no-name" etc. These are null values (simply because they cannot be given attributes), and the null value of work is simply rest--the antithesis of every expression of matter, space or time. The seventh expression of creation was simply rest. Thus, the divine command to observe "REST" and "enter into rest" is much more than a spiritual commandment to honor the creator, or a moral commandment to alleviate the work of man 1 day out of seven, it is an ARROW which points to eternal rest--otherwise known as timelessness or "heaven" which is a "forever" place. It is the "non-note" that gives form to all the others.
Also Cat's excellent graphic representations tied in the possiblities of the "strings" spanning the dimensional divides--alternating from symmetry to chaos and back again. Of course, we cannot really "see" the zero-point fluctuations, but our minds have this incredible pattern-filling capability to "go where no one has gone before". We can give shape to the shapeless, a name to the nameless. After all, that is exactly what we did with the zero.
Never before have I ever conceived that "perfect rest" could actually be the catalyst for "universal motion". So superspace now has a new dimension to it --a null attribute that, by its own nature, is capable of completely absorbing a collapsed sun--only to reshape it somewhere else in zero-point space. The question naturally arose as to what parameters need to be met to successfully sail the quantum seas. It is no coincidence that in the final analysis, it comes down to mind--and this is exactly what Torah is all about--training the mind in ways that are not natural to us. We do quite well on our own with just instinctual use of our "gifts", but if there is anything the universe has taught us, it is that everything works by "recipes" and that it is rationally intelligible. Therefore, there is definitely a recipe for defeating time.
This is something I posted on sciforums a while back and I think is relevant to what you're saying:
Allan Sandage(Astronomer)
Out of the big bang has come a non-chaotic system, because otherwise, cause and effect which surely exists would be impossible. So the design one sees in the universe may be completely natural as an outcome of the differential equations. The mystery is: why is the world describable in terms of differential equations—and it is. That’s the answer physics gives. All students that ever study are mystified by the great recipes that science have found., but the universe works by those recipes. So the universe we observe is not a chance phenomena. (THIS IS FAITH)
Stephen Hawking
From the age of 13 or 14 , I wanted to know how the universe worked and why, and why it is what it is. Now I have some idea how the universe works, but I really still do not understand—I really still do not understand why.(THIS IS FAITH)
Leon Lederman(Physicist)
The trouble we’re in now—this standard model—this standard picture, is very elegant and very powerful. But it’s not complete. It’s incomplete and has some flaws. One of its greatest flaws is one which is hard to explain. It’s an aesthetic flaw. It’s too complicated, and has too many arbitrary parameters—too many fluctuating limits. We don’t really see the creator twiddling twenty knobs and twenty parameters in the universe as we know it. That’s too many. Ever since the Greeks started us on this road to understanding the atom, the fundamental building blocks of the universe, we’ve had this predjudice that there’s something simple underneath all of this. Now 6 quarks and 6 leptons and all their antiparticles and their coming in different colors and charges is too complicated., and there’s a deep feeling the picture is not beautiful.; and that drive for beauty, simplicity and symmetry has been an unfailing drive as to how to go in physics.
Steven Weinberg(Physicist)(THIS IS FAITH)
We haven’t come to the bottom level yet. But as we approach it, intimations of an underlying beautiful theory whose beauty we can only dimly see at the present time. We don’t know that its true. We don’t know that there is a beautiful underlying theory. We don’t know that as a species we are smart enough to learn what it is. But we do know that if we don’t assume that there is a beautiful underlying theory, and assume that we’re smart enough to find out what it is—we never will. (THIS IS FAITH)
John Wheeler(Physicist)
To my mind, at the bottom of it all must be—not an utterly beautiful equation, but an utterly simple idea—and to me that idea when we finally discover it will be so compelling, so inevitable, so beautiful, that we will say to each other—how could it have been otherwise. (THIS IS FAITH)
Timothy Ferris(Cosmologist)
In the Judeo/Christian tradition, creation involved order from chaos and light from darkness. Religion and Science have sometimes been depicted as opponents, but science owes a great deal to religion. Modern Science began with the renaissance of the old Greek idea that nature is rationally intelligible. But Science from the beginning incorporated another idea that the universe really is a universe.—ruled by a single set of laws and science got that idea from the Judeo/Christian belief in one God. Now the men that discovered many of the laws of nature—the founders of modern science like Kepler, Copernicus, and Isaac Newton and Gallileo(with all his troubles with the church) were profoundly religious men. In the modern scientific research, especially unified theory, testifies to the triumph of the old idea that the universe may be ruled by a single and elegantly beautiful principle.(THIS IS FAITH)
Can you perceive of null-velociy, null-momemtum, etc? Ironically (there's that word again), trying to "look" at anything null seems to (via imagination) be "full" of stuff with really weird connections to "known" space/time/matter. The plot thickens.....
RainmanTime
Super Moderator
Embedded (Fractal) Tetrahedral Geometry
Olly,
If this is what you are getting at (and I hope I have hit the target, or at least gotten fairly close), then I think we need to make one final connection between the model I have described and the "geometry of the pyramid and tetrahedron", which represents the "secrets of the pyramids" of which past civilizations have been aware. Allow me to share another geometric graphic:
This image shows a specific configuration of a mathematical object that has been come to be known as the Sierpinski Triangle or alternately as the Sierpinski Gasket. Notice that it represents a "triangle within a triangle"... and so not only is fractal-embedding represented here, but we also see a mathematical representation of "three within three".
This geometrical object is a 2-Dimensional diagram, but if we "fold space" along the lines of this 2-D diagram, we can see that the 2-D Sierpinski Triangle will fold-up into a 3-Dimensional solid TETRAHEDRON, which consists of FOUR distinct 2-D surfaces.
Reading The 2-D Sierpinski Gasket.
Before we fold this 2-D object into a final 3-D shape, let us look at the individual triangles and see if we can "read them" in the order suggested, and identify some truth related to how our human body system perceives Mass, Space, and Time. The larger triangle shown above can be broken down into FOUR distinct, yet shared, triangles. And we can even form sentences that describe what these triangles represent with respect to our physical universe:
1) I am MATTER in MOTION.
2) MATTER is MASS that changes over TIME.
3) MOTION is SPACE that changes over TIME.
4) TIME is MATTER in MOTION.
Examining The 3-D Tetrahedron.
Now let us imagine taking this "flat", 2-D Sierpinski Triangle, and folding the corners of this triangle upwards into a 3rd physical dimension to form a perfect, Platonic solid Tetrahedron. To do this we would "grab hold" of the THREE vertexes of the larger Sierpinski Triangle called "I", "Mass", and "Space" and fold them upward so that they will join together with each other into the APEX of the tetrahedron. Therefore, we can say that the APEX of the 3-D Tetrahedron is a 3-way combination of "I" (Self), "Mass" (Body), and "Space" (Universe).
What would we call it if our unique vision of Self (Mind/Soul/Spirit) came together with ALL MASS AND ALL SPACE OF THE RELATIVE SURROUNDING UNIVERSE? (An interesting question to ponder)
Furthermore, after we have folded the THREE corners of the Sierpinski Triangle up to join each other, let us look at what is left as the 2-Dimensional BASE of this Tetrahedron: MATTER-MOTION-TIME. And is not TIME defined (scientifically) as MATTER in MOTION?
Is it possible to visualize how this model of a tetrahedron represents our human condition? Notice how the base of the 2-D Sierpinksi Triangle is the 3 elements of Massive SpaceTime. Notice how Massive SpaceTime reduces to MATTER in MOTION. And notice how MATTER in MOTION reduces to the concept of a self-referential, RELATIVE, PERCEPTUAL POINT OF VIEW.
If you understand this model so far, then it should not be a problem to begin to "rise" above it to higher levels of integration in our universe, which are represented by the SCIENTIFIC concepts and measures known as:
MOMENTUM__(mass*linear_velocity or Inertia*angular_velocity)________-Mind.
ENERGY_____(mass*linear_velocity^2 or Inertia*angular_velocity^2)____-Soul.
I'd suggest we discuss and work on understanding the lowest level (represented by the tetrahedron described above), and then how it evolves into higher dimensions described by MOMENTUM and ENERGY. Eventually we will wish to go beyond these levels on to the understanding of the level above Energy which is Information.
What do you say to this, Olly?
RMT
Olly,
This is really the "big question" then, isn't it? How to use this knowledge of a specific geometrical dynamic model to "raise our level of universal interaction"... am I correct in describing it in this manner? IOW, there is a very mundane level of existence that it is very easy for all of us humans to agree upon. That mundane level is the physical level of how objects (Mass) move through 3-D (Space), and as they do they leave specific, unique "trails" within the dimension we call (Time).
If this is what you are getting at (and I hope I have hit the target, or at least gotten fairly close), then I think we need to make one final connection between the model I have described and the "geometry of the pyramid and tetrahedron", which represents the "secrets of the pyramids" of which past civilizations have been aware. Allow me to share another geometric graphic:
This image shows a specific configuration of a mathematical object that has been come to be known as the Sierpinski Triangle or alternately as the Sierpinski Gasket. Notice that it represents a "triangle within a triangle"... and so not only is fractal-embedding represented here, but we also see a mathematical representation of "three within three".
This geometrical object is a 2-Dimensional diagram, but if we "fold space" along the lines of this 2-D diagram, we can see that the 2-D Sierpinski Triangle will fold-up into a 3-Dimensional solid TETRAHEDRON, which consists of FOUR distinct 2-D surfaces.
Reading The 2-D Sierpinski Gasket.
Before we fold this 2-D object into a final 3-D shape, let us look at the individual triangles and see if we can "read them" in the order suggested, and identify some truth related to how our human body system perceives Mass, Space, and Time. The larger triangle shown above can be broken down into FOUR distinct, yet shared, triangles. And we can even form sentences that describe what these triangles represent with respect to our physical universe:
1) I am MATTER in MOTION.
2) MATTER is MASS that changes over TIME.
3) MOTION is SPACE that changes over TIME.
4) TIME is MATTER in MOTION.
Examining The 3-D Tetrahedron.
Now let us imagine taking this "flat", 2-D Sierpinski Triangle, and folding the corners of this triangle upwards into a 3rd physical dimension to form a perfect, Platonic solid Tetrahedron. To do this we would "grab hold" of the THREE vertexes of the larger Sierpinski Triangle called "I", "Mass", and "Space" and fold them upward so that they will join together with each other into the APEX of the tetrahedron. Therefore, we can say that the APEX of the 3-D Tetrahedron is a 3-way combination of "I" (Self), "Mass" (Body), and "Space" (Universe).
What would we call it if our unique vision of Self (Mind/Soul/Spirit) came together with ALL MASS AND ALL SPACE OF THE RELATIVE SURROUNDING UNIVERSE? (An interesting question to ponder)
Furthermore, after we have folded the THREE corners of the Sierpinski Triangle up to join each other, let us look at what is left as the 2-Dimensional BASE of this Tetrahedron: MATTER-MOTION-TIME. And is not TIME defined (scientifically) as MATTER in MOTION?
Is it possible to visualize how this model of a tetrahedron represents our human condition? Notice how the base of the 2-D Sierpinksi Triangle is the 3 elements of Massive SpaceTime. Notice how Massive SpaceTime reduces to MATTER in MOTION. And notice how MATTER in MOTION reduces to the concept of a self-referential, RELATIVE, PERCEPTUAL POINT OF VIEW.
If you understand this model so far, then it should not be a problem to begin to "rise" above it to higher levels of integration in our universe, which are represented by the SCIENTIFIC concepts and measures known as:
MOMENTUM__(mass*linear_velocity or Inertia*angular_velocity)________-Mind.
ENERGY_____(mass*linear_velocity^2 or Inertia*angular_velocity^2)____-Soul.
I'd suggest we discuss and work on understanding the lowest level (represented by the tetrahedron described above), and then how it evolves into higher dimensions described by MOMENTUM and ENERGY. Eventually we will wish to go beyond these levels on to the understanding of the level above Energy which is Information.
What do you say to this, Olly?
RMT
RainmanTime
Super Moderator
Recipes: Ingredients & Procedures
Zerub,
I really enjoy cooking, for the simple fact that it is an act of Creation where, by nothing more than the Power of Will, one can make manifest a specific form of Matter, on a plate, which satisfies the human sense of taste in such a specific manner. Even if one is just following the recipe for a grilled cheese sandwich, one can be assured that if you follow the recipe closely, you will most certainly be able to enjoy the specific tastes associated with the taste of a good grilled cheese sandwich!
The thing I learned early on is that a RECIPE is a formula for Creation, and that it is divided into TWO equal but opposite sets of Information:
1) INGREDIENTS (Matter) - A list of STUFF, that we associate with specific forms of Mass, that are required to re-Create the recipe.
2) PROCEDURE (Motion) - A list of PROCESSES, that we associate with the execution of these processes with the specific forms of Mass (INGREDIENTS) such that the final Recipe will be the ultimate result of this act of Creation.
As humans we are so familiar with INGREDIENTS, but so many of us have yet to master the overall PROCESS by which any ingredients can be mixed to Create a specific result.
Recipe, indeed. You have contributed just the right thing, at just the right time, to keep us focused on where we are going in this thread. And the more we investigate Process (MOTION), Action, and Creation the more we will understand how to apply these physical concepts in such a way as to achieve results that are BEYOND PHYSICAL... and these are the dimensions of Mind, Soul, and Spirit.... and BEYOND!
RMT
Zerub,
There is so much to comment on from your recent sharing! You've hit the nail on the head in so many different dimensions, that it becomes difficult to focus on and discuss even One. But endeavor I shall, and your discussion of a "recipe" has certainly hit a familiar spot inside my Mind. /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif
I really enjoy cooking, for the simple fact that it is an act of Creation where, by nothing more than the Power of Will, one can make manifest a specific form of Matter, on a plate, which satisfies the human sense of taste in such a specific manner. Even if one is just following the recipe for a grilled cheese sandwich, one can be assured that if you follow the recipe closely, you will most certainly be able to enjoy the specific tastes associated with the taste of a good grilled cheese sandwich!
The thing I learned early on is that a RECIPE is a formula for Creation, and that it is divided into TWO equal but opposite sets of Information:
1) INGREDIENTS (Matter) - A list of STUFF, that we associate with specific forms of Mass, that are required to re-Create the recipe.
2) PROCEDURE (Motion) - A list of PROCESSES, that we associate with the execution of these processes with the specific forms of Mass (INGREDIENTS) such that the final Recipe will be the ultimate result of this act of Creation.
As humans we are so familiar with INGREDIENTS, but so many of us have yet to master the overall PROCESS by which any ingredients can be mixed to Create a specific result.
Recipe, indeed. You have contributed just the right thing, at just the right time, to keep us focused on where we are going in this thread. And the more we investigate Process (MOTION), Action, and Creation the more we will understand how to apply these physical concepts in such a way as to achieve results that are BEYOND PHYSICAL... and these are the dimensions of Mind, Soul, and Spirit.... and BEYOND!
RMT
Re: Embedded (Fractal) Tetrahedral Geometry
so what you are saying is, that matter in motion is the lowest level (the physical)? Time is the relative linear perception of you observing changing space/matter. Or rather - our [wrong] perception of "I" within the effects of "matter" in "motion"?
In my view, understanding the true reality of "self" is the quickest way of rising above this current model of perception we are stuck within.
I got asked the question lately of;
I think that this model perhaps explains it best. As the ego works on this [lowest] level, percieving matter in motion and all the linear trappings that this generates, including [never constant] personalities. The current model of "self" is maintained by the ego. In other words the ego has become "self", which is incorrect.
If mind is momentum, then Information is above mind and Intention is the sender of information above them both. In which case intention/information is above Massive SpaceTime as many have mentioned before. Only, Mind is the last stop (like a deposit box) and is not TOTALLY a creation of Time/Space. Which is where we start to enter Sub-conscious...
the subconscious feeds the conscious mind with impulsed information. So the gateway to higher dimensions begins with the material/non material mind (momentum - in your model).
It seems really that we are reverse engineering our way to the higher dimesions here. We are following the bread crumbs back.
I will think more on Ray's post more tomorrow, when i have more time.
Kindest regards,
Olly
so what you are saying is, that matter in motion is the lowest level (the physical)? Time is the relative linear perception of you observing changing space/matter. Or rather - our [wrong] perception of "I" within the effects of "matter" in "motion"?
In my view, understanding the true reality of "self" is the quickest way of rising above this current model of perception we are stuck within.
I got asked the question lately of;
I think that this model perhaps explains it best. As the ego works on this [lowest] level, percieving matter in motion and all the linear trappings that this generates, including [never constant] personalities. The current model of "self" is maintained by the ego. In other words the ego has become "self", which is incorrect.
If mind is momentum, then Information is above mind and Intention is the sender of information above them both. In which case intention/information is above Massive SpaceTime as many have mentioned before. Only, Mind is the last stop (like a deposit box) and is not TOTALLY a creation of Time/Space. Which is where we start to enter Sub-conscious...
the subconscious feeds the conscious mind with impulsed information. So the gateway to higher dimensions begins with the material/non material mind (momentum - in your model).
It seems really that we are reverse engineering our way to the higher dimesions here. We are following the bread crumbs back.
I will think more on Ray's post more tomorrow, when i have more time.
Kindest regards,
Olly
RainmanTime
Super Moderator
Re: Embedded (Fractal) Tetrahedral Geometry
Hi Olly,
In the sense of ourselves as individual human beings, our body is our individual "Integrated Matrix of Massive SpaceTime". Our physical hardware. However, the next highest level (our Mind) is what perceives Matter, Motion, and Tense (the integrated measure is Momentum). The connections between these two levels are the 3 lowest paths on the Tree Of Life. So it is quite natural to understand that these 3 paths correspond to the things we perceive as the individual quantities of Mass, Space, and Time.
1 = SPIRIT -> Spirit operates in the Information domain.
2 = SOUL -> Soul operates in the Energy domain.
3 = MIND -> Mind operates in the Momentum domain.
4 = BODY -> Body operates in the physical domain of Massive SpaceTime.
And interestingly enough, as I have mentioned before, this same philosophy is at the very root of most of the teachings of L. Ron Hubbard's Scientology. But instead of the Tree Of Life, Hubbard hid the real nature of the model and renamed it "The Bridge to Clear". Indeed, the entire "religion" of Scientology grew from the facts that Hubbard and reknowned rocket scientist Jack Parsons were both students of Aleister Crowley!! Hubbard "appropriated" the deep, mystical truths that Crowley taught him and turned it into his own, moneymaking "religion".
RMT
Hi Olly,
Actually, I am saying that the "Integrated Matrix of Massive SpaceTime" is the lowest level. And as I always point out, what I find to be the easiest "schematic" to understand how all this fits together is the Qabalistic Tree Of Life. Here is a graphic that aligns the four distinct "levels" of the Tree Of Life with this model:
In the sense of ourselves as individual human beings, our body is our individual "Integrated Matrix of Massive SpaceTime". Our physical hardware. However, the next highest level (our Mind) is what perceives Matter, Motion, and Tense (the integrated measure is Momentum). The connections between these two levels are the 3 lowest paths on the Tree Of Life. So it is quite natural to understand that these 3 paths correspond to the things we perceive as the individual quantities of Mass, Space, and Time.
That's a big 10-4, good buddy! /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Oh yes. This is a very good model, and quite similar to the one proposed by Aleister Crowley. "Frater P" (as he often called himself) called the mind the "container" of our PERSONALITY, and the soul the "container" of our INDIVIDUALITY. He also pointed out that Freud's model of the subconscious (Id-Ego-Superego) was an excellent, balanced description of the soul. And you are quite correct in your assessment here, Olly. The mind has a tendency to "latch onto" the ego, because it is the dominant force of the soul and the easiest part of the soul for the mind to identify with. And thus the mind becomes "trapped" by the ego, and this is why so many people have trouble getting beyond their ego and striking a balance between it and the Id and SuperEgo. Just as our minds need to contemplate the physical reality below it as an Integrated Matrix of Massive SpaceTime, the mind must also see the soul above it as an Integrated piece of our aphysical selves that Crowley called our Individuality.
Very good. But don't forget about "Energy" that is a level between Momentum and Information. So if we wanted to align the scientific model with the "layers of self" graphic presented above, we would have:
1 = SPIRIT -> Spirit operates in the Information domain.
2 = SOUL -> Soul operates in the Energy domain.
3 = MIND -> Mind operates in the Momentum domain.
4 = BODY -> Body operates in the physical domain of Massive SpaceTime.
Yes, exactly! And we must never forget that impulses flow in BOTH directions. So while the subconscious feeds the conscious mind with symbolic "commands", the reverberations of the physical world (as interpreted by Mind as Matter in Motion) are propagated upwards to the subconscious. This reverberation aids the subsoncious soul in reshaping itself based on the "reality" below it.
Once again, you are right on the money! And while those with "spiritual knowledge" have understood this for a great many years, many people of the sciences have yet to really understand that they are on this same "backwards" (or upwards, by the graphic given above) path to Truth. In Qabalistic studies we say we are "climbing the Tree of our Life to come to a complete understanding of Self."
And interestingly enough, as I have mentioned before, this same philosophy is at the very root of most of the teachings of L. Ron Hubbard's Scientology. But instead of the Tree Of Life, Hubbard hid the real nature of the model and renamed it "The Bridge to Clear". Indeed, the entire "religion" of Scientology grew from the facts that Hubbard and reknowned rocket scientist Jack Parsons were both students of Aleister Crowley!! Hubbard "appropriated" the deep, mystical truths that Crowley taught him and turned it into his own, moneymaking "religion".
RMT