Anyone Want To Know... ???

[RainmanTime]

Re: Embedded (Fractal) Tetrahedral Geometry

Greetings wa1ex,

Glad you are still with us on this thread. You pose some most excellent questions (dude!). /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Question: Can the Spirit, mind and Soul & Body Exist independently on their own?

Can the Spirit, mind soul Exist without a body?
Can the body exist without a soul?

Most excellent! Especially since you have posited THREE questions, each one about a central theme: Existence.

If this has been discused somewhere else my apologies.

If you wish to explore the answers to your questions, it is going to take some "work" on your part, you know what I mean?

There are no "hit and run", fast-answers when it comes to the deeper questions of life! /ttiforum/images/graemlins/tongue.gif If you are ready to put in the effort to have a back-and-forth discussion on Existence and how it means different things to Body, Mind, Soul, and Spirit, then we can likely find some paths to explore that might lead to answers to your questions. How about it? Are you ready to steer the wagon for awhile?

Now here is an exercise that might help us in figuring out answers to your questions: We can "replace" the four-levels called (Spirit-Soul-Mind-Body) with their equivalent "four tier" architecture from our physical realm...namely our bodies and the universe they live within. So if we make the following alignments we can study how well the body can "continue to exist" when its internal layers become disconnected from one another:

Replace SPIRIT with your Head.
Replace SOUL with your Heart/Lungs/Chest.
Replace MIND with your Genitals/Excretory.
Replace BODY with your External Physical Universe you live in and exhange Energy with.

Now consider your original questions, but from this alternate view of the same architecture.
RMT

 

[Packerbacker]

Re: Embedded (Fractal) Tetrahedral Geometry

Hello again RMT. Can I tell you a story (so I don't have to defend the specifics)? It seems to me quite similar to some points I've just read above:

Once upon a time on the planet Earth, at least 10,000 years ago,there existed a well developed concept of physical and spiritual reality. The source of this knowledge may have come from space (as the Bambara and some other cultures insist), or perhaps from a previous civilization.

Only tattered remnants of this knowledge yet exist, and it hasn't been fully understood during our recorded history.That which does remain seems to be in symbols or physical forms (although these remaining remnants may be "dumbed down" versions intended for 'the peasants').

One of the key symbols is the Tai-chi T'u-- the yin-yang symbol surrounded by eight trigrams which represent binary numbers. This is a representation of the one element from which the universe is made. Another symbol is that of Shiva, which represents a sevenness (1 head,two feet, and 4 arms) and three levels of vibration. Yet another is the shape of the well known pyramid (which occurs in the Upanishads). The pyramid shows some of the relationships of physical materiality, including dimensional spin (which is a helix) and expansion.

But this system cannot be subsumed into, or under, the current worldview, so there is little danger of it being easily accepted. :D Excuse me if I'm repeating myself.

 

[wa1ex]

Re: Embedded (Fractal) Tetrahedral Geometry

Is Funny How you associated the Soul with the heart Lungs and Chest...

The Biblical Hebrew word for 'soul' is nefesh, meaning life, or vital breath. According to Ancient Hebrew belief God is described, at Genesis 1:26, as breathing the breath of life into the nostrils of the first man...The Soul entering the body through the lungs?......

When humans describe being hurt on the inside, we often see descriptions such as "a heavy weight on my chest" or "my heart can't take anymore pain"....when in reality there is nothing physically affecting the Body other than the information it is being given.....

Plato, drawing on the words of his teacher Socrates, considered the soul as the essence of a person, being that which decides how we act. He considered this essence as an incorporeal occupant of our being. The Platonic soul comprises three parts:

1. the logos (mind, nous, superego, or reason)
2. the thymos (emotion, ego, or spiritedness)
3. the pathos (appetitive, id, or carnal)

Each of these has a function in a balanced and peaceful soul.
Again there we have this concept of three...3...III...

But is the soul aware of its existence outside a physical body?......can the soul be affected by information without ears/eyes/taste/touch?

The spirit ...An incorporeal but ubiquitous, non-quantifiable, substance or energy present individually in all living things. Unlike the concept of human souls, which is believed to be eternal and preexisting, a spirit develops and grows as an integral aspect of the living being.
This concept of the individual spirit is common among traditional peoples.
It is therefore important to note the distinction between this concept of spirit and that of the pre-existing or eternal soul because belief in souls is specific and far less common, particularly in traditional societies.

The mind is the result of the activity of the brain.....so the mind cannot exist if there is no Brain/Head?

I did some reading and this question is as old and Aristotle made some theories about...funny how this question is still here with us....who know for how long?

Dualism and monism are two major schools of thought that attempt to resolve the mind–body problem.

Substance dualists argue that the mind is an independently existing substance, while property dualists maintain that the mind is a jumble of independent properties that emerge from the brain and cannot be reduced to it, but that it is not a distinct substance.

Physicalists argue that only the brain actually exists, idealists maintain that the mind is all that actually exists, and neutral monists adhere to the position that there is some other, neutral substance and that both matter and mind are properties of this unknown substance.The most common monisms in the 20th and 21st centuries have all been variations of materialism (or physicalism), including behaviorism, the identity theory, and functionalism.


In my humble opinion I beleive the Soul can exist without the physical body. A soul is aware of its existence....what I wonder is can the soul be affected by information without the 5 senses we know of? is there some other sense that we do not understand comprehend or know of?

alot of blah blah....and the question still unanswered... /ttiforum/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[RainmanTime]

Re: Embedded (Fractal) Tetrahedral Geometry

Hello PB:

Once upon a time on the planet Earth, at least 10,000 years ago,there existed a well developed concept of physical and spiritual reality. The source of this knowledge may have come from space (as the Bambara and some other cultures insist), or perhaps from a previous civilization.

I think I agree, and it seems that my own research and that of several others on this forum suggests the same thing. Some of the evidence I find most amazing is the celestial alignments of the Sphinx and pyramids (and other structures in the world) that point to a starfield configuration around the TIME we call 10500 BC.

Only tattered remnants of this knowledge yet exist, and it hasn't been fully understood during our recorded history.That which does remain seems to be in symbols or physical forms (although these remaining remnants may be "dumbed down" versions intended for 'the peasants').

Partially agree. There is little in our universe that can ever be "fully" understood, but I get what you are hinting at. Furthermore, I think a great many (most?) religious traditions have been derived from some (most?) of this knowledge, and because it was "dumbed down" by putting it into a story-driven context, a lot of the original (scientific) meaning has been lost. IMO it appears that the early Hebrews did some of the best jobs of capturing this knowledge, although even they "hid" it to some extent in words and stories that could be understood (and easily passed down through the ages).

One of the key symbols is the Tai-chi T'u-- the yin-yang symbol surrounded by eight trigrams which represent binary numbers. This is a representation of the one element from which the universe is made. Another symbol is that of Shiva, which represents a sevenness (1 head,two feet, and 4 arms) and three levels of vibration. Yet another is the shape of the well known pyramid (which occurs in the Upanishads). The pyramid shows some of the relationships of physical materiality, including dimensional spin (which is a helix) and expansion.

Yes. And in my research I have found that all of these forms of symbolism are "rolled-up" into what may be the most important symbolic network architecture to our human species....the Tree Of Life. It "contains" the Yin/Yang concept, and it also contains the 8 triagrams of the I-Ching. The TEN commandments is another good example....It is not a coincidence that there are TEN commandments as well as TEN spheres in the TOL network structure. Did you know that the 10 commandments can be accurately decomposed into categories that align with the "hierarchy" of the TOL? The story goes that these commandments were given to Moses "by God", but it is not that much of a stretch to understand that God works through all of us physical beings, and thus quite probable that these commandments (and the KNOWLEDGE of the TOL) was "given to the chosen people" by other beings in our universe.

But this system cannot be subsumed into, or under, the current worldview, so there is little danger of it being easily accepted.

Our worldview it is a-changing! /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif When one looks at history and combines aspects of both spiritual and scientific development, one can see a definite pattern of our evolution as sentient beings. Some people say history "repeats itself" but that would imply a closed circle, and "repeat" would mean identical events, which is not so. I see it more as a spiral evolution, where a later event "resembles" an earlier event with the only real difference being that the later event happens on an outer spiral arm, but at the same angular position as the earlier event.

The ordered pattern of our evolution has lead us to today. We have built our society based on NETWORK principles such that we can fully INTEGRATE disparate portions of our culture (and the KNOWLEDGE of our culture). The latest, and most powerful, NETWORK is the internet that we use on this forum. It INTEGRATES us at the level of INFORMATION, whereas earlier forms of NETWORKS integrated us at the levels of Energy (power grids) and Momentum (highways).

The next big INTEGRATION that lies before us is that of science and spirituality. It is not (and will not be) an "easy" INTEGRATION as can be seen by current world events. But if we are "lucky" (and I don't believe for a minute that luck really has anything to do with it), we are on the verge of finally "growing up" and growing BEYOND the lies and manipulations of man-made religions...all of which are shown to be failures as they have NOT resulted in the INTEGRATION of all humans on this planet.

It is TIME to throw away that which does not work. It is TIME to embrace SPIRITUALITY within the context of SCIENCE.

RMT

 

[RainmanTime]

Re: Embedded (Fractal) Tetrahedral Geometry

Hi again wa1ex:

Great post!

Is Funny How you associated the Soul with the heart Lungs and Chest...

The Biblical Hebrew word for 'soul' is nefesh, meaning life, or vital breath. According to Ancient Hebrew belief God is described, at Genesis 1:26, as breathing the breath of life into the nostrils of the first man...The Soul entering the body through the lungs?......

"Funny" indeed! But no coincidence. Now that I have exposed the alignment of Spirit/Soul/Mind/Body with the physical aspects of the human body, can you see how this really represents a "system within system" fractal embedding? Our entire physical universe is structured along the lines of systems embedded with systems, and here we see what is possibly the most important evidence to this fact in the human body and those aspects of us that are "beyond physical". The embedding aspect is easy to see... Starting at the "Spirit/Soul/Mind/Body" system diagram, let us now center our focus on the Body. When we "look inside" the body as a whole to see the embedded systems, we see a duplicate of the structure we just used, where Spirit aligns with Head, Soul aligns with Chest, Mind aligns with Pelvis, and Body aligns with the physical system outside our human body. Who wants to take bets that if we jump to a higher-level system context from "Spirit/Soul/Mind/Body" that the next highest system will follow the same structure?

Again there we have this concept of three...3...III...

Yes. Three is the "first form of extant stability." Again, it is no coincidence that our conscious mind requires a minimum of three metrics (Matter, Motion, and Time) to "place itself" within our universe in a stable (resistant to changing or contradictory) manner. We could do a whole thread on this alone!

But is the soul aware of its existence outside a physical body?......

Perhaps an even more fundamental question might be: "Is the soul even AWARE of the body at all?". My research tells me "no", and that the Mind acts as a filter on the sensory information to act as a veil for the soul. It is my belief that a soul could not function as a soul if it was bogged-down in the mundane aspects associated with physicality and a body. Again, I must point out that these principles PERFECTLY align with the science of embedded systems engineering. On commercial aircraft there is an Automatic Flight SYSTEM (AFS...AKA autopilot) which controls the physical "body" of the airplane. It is separate and distinct from the Flight Management SYSTEM (FMS) which is, essentially, an automated navigator. This system does not "know" it is connected to an airplane. The autopilot handles that part and thus frees-up the FMS to do its functions of navigation and route planning. Much like the soul feeds the mind, the FMS feeds course information to the AFS(autopilot) and the AFS then takes the necessary actions (throttle, elevator, aileron, rudder) to make the airplane follow that course.

can the soul be affected by information without ears/eyes/taste/touch?

If you accept my model that the soul is Energy-based and the spirit is Information-based, then I would say the answer to this is "yes"... it can be affected by information from the spirit. But the structure of the soul would be dramatically changed if its connection to the mind (and indirectly the body) are lost.

The mind is the result of the activity of the brain.....so the mind cannot exist if there is no Brain/Head?

I tend to agree, but the sticking point is having a good definition of what it means to "exist". I might state this in a slightly different way: "The mind's existence will be changed dramatically if there is no brain/head." IOW, there may yet be a form of existence, but it would "look" nothing like what we have come to know as physical existence.

Dualism and monism are two major schools of thought that attempt to resolve the mind–body problem.

Yes, and I find it sad that these schools of thought are constantly arguing that one or the other is the "correct" interpretation. The "reality" (as told within the science of TOL and other geometric traditions) is that the resolution of the "mind-body" problem is that of a CONTINUUM. In the easiest sense you can NOT "define" the "mind-body problem" as EITHER a monad OR a dyad....it encompasses not only elements of both of these structures, but it also includes elements of the TRIAD (as we have seen), and the QUATERN (the four levels we discussed above)... and this goes on up the chain of integers.

In my humble opinion I beleive the Soul can exist without the physical body.

I agree, but the FORM of its existence is clearly changed in a drastic manner. And perhaps this is what we really should be focusing on? I do not believe that "death" is an ending, as much as I understand that it is a change in state (or an alternate phase of existence).

what I wonder is can the soul be affected by information without the 5 senses we know of? is there some other sense that we do not understand comprehend or know of?

There are many who believe so. For example: What are "emotions"? How about "instincts"? Clearly there are elements of awareness that we all possess that are not directly connected to our 5 senses (although it is clear that information from our senses can trigger emotions and instincts).

I have developed a body of work that scientifically defines each of our 5 senses in terms of the "3 paths" on the lower TOL that I have defined as "Mass, Space, and Time". These 5 senses, which utilize these 3 paths, form a SYSTEM INTERFACE between the Body and the Mind. I have also gone beyond this lower level of the TOL and derived what I believe are FIVE ADDITIONAL SENSES which are distributed across other pathways on the upper TOL that link the upper three layers to each other.

alot of blah blah....and the question still unanswered...

Are they really unanswered? Is an "answer" a discrete, quantum event? Has this discussion generated NO NEW KNOWLEDGE or UNDERSTANDING in yourself? It certainly has for me... I have found that I cannot HELP but get parts of answers as I move along through life. It is in believing that there is some "final answer" to any question that we may think we are not getting answers. For example, Newton gave us some pretty big answers about physical motion... but they were not the "full" answer. Einstein came along and added to Newton's answers. But do we have the "final" answer yet? I don't think so. Will we ever? I don't think so....at least not while we are in this physical form.

RMT

 

[wa1ex]

Re: Embedded (Fractal) Tetrahedral Geometry

<font color="blue">Who wants to take bets that if we jump to a higher-level system context from "Spirit/Soul/Mind/Body" that the next highest system will follow the same structure?[/COLOR]

Can we have an example.... but come back to this system.

<font color="blue">Mind aligns with Pelvis[/COLOR]
How does the mind align with the pelvis? - are you refering to the prev diagram you posted?

<font color="blue">If you accept my model that the soul is Energy-based and the spirit is Information-based...[/COLOR]

So if i understand correctly, in the future the Soul could be represented mathematically just like Energy? Artificial intelligence...not far off?
So if the spirit and the soul could be represented mathematically then information and Energy are tied together?

<font color="blue">FORM of its existence (Soul) is clearly changed in a drastic manner. And perhaps this is what we really should be focusing on?[/COLOR]

I Agree...

I have developed a body of work that scientifically defines each of our 5 senses in terms of the "3 paths" on the lower TOL that I have defined as "Mass, Space, and Time". These 5 senses, which utilize these 3 paths, form a SYSTEM INTERFACE between the Body and the Mind. I have also gone beyond this lower level of the TOL and derived what I believe are FIVE ADDITIONAL SENSES which are distributed across other pathways on the upper TOL that link the upper three layers to each other.

Five additional senses? can you share this later?

Has this discussion generated NO NEW KNOWLEDGE or UNDERSTANDING in yourself?

Yes it has...

But do we have the "final" answer yet? I don't think so. Will we ever? I don't think so....at least not while we are in this physical form.

I certainly hope so too....

 

[RainmanTime]

Fractal Self-Similarity

wa1ex,

I will probably defer comments/replies to most of your points to a later reply. For right now I would like to focus on this one, as I received a PM from someone on this who had misinterpreted what I was saying:

How does the mind align with the pelvis? - are you refering to the prev diagram you posted?

First, to address the misunderstanding by the person who PM'ed me... I am NOT claiming that the "mind is in the pelvis". Just like "the map is not the territory", one needs to understand the mathematics and science of fractal self-similarity to understand what I am pointing out here. The mind is at a higher systemic level than the pelvis. In other words: The pelvis contains functional subsystems that are embedded within the integrated body system, and the mind contains functional subsystems that are embedded within the larger, aphysical elements of being that we discuss above.

So how, specifically, are the pelvis and mind fractally self-similar? When you look at the similarity of their functional subsystems you see that the mind is responsible for controlling the physical elements of Massive SpaceTime. IOW, the mind is the "last stop" in the aphysical realm and therefore it performs the functions of commanding Creation in the external (physical) world of the body. The mind tells the body to move and the body complies. Thus, the mind is the direct agent of Creation in the physical realm of the body. Now we jump down a level into the integrated system of the body, and examine the functional aspects inherent to the human pelvis. The most obvious function that is fractally self-similar to the mind is the reproduction function. So just as the mind is the element that controls Creation in the body, so are the reproductive organs the elements which control the Creation of new bodies in the world external to the body. Of course there are also the excretory organs which also "give forth Creations", and while these forms of Creation we might think are a bit gross, they do perform functions in the overall scheme of a biological environment.

So the mind is the direct agent of Creation for the aphysical being, as the pelvic subsystems of the body are the direct agents of Creation for the physical being. And once again we must point out we are talking about self- similarity here. Not that they are identical. The map is NOT the actual territory, but they are self-similar (otherwise the map would be useless). The evidence that self-similarity and embedding of forms is part of the "reality" of our physical universe is all around us. There are a great many books dedicated to this science.

Did this clear up this issue?
RMT

 

[wa1ex]

Re: Fractal Self-Similarity

Yes Thanks RMT for Clearing the Mind / Pelvis 's self similarity.

The evidence that self-similarity and embedding of forms is part of the "reality" of our physical universe is all around us. There are a great many books dedicated to this science

Can you sugest any books...Im interested

...If you are ready to put in the effort to have a back-and-forth discussion on Existence and how it means different things to Body, Mind, Soul, and Spirit, then we can likely find some paths to explore that might lead to answers to your questions. How about it?

<ul type="square">[*]What does Existence mean to the Body?
[*]What does Existence mean to the Mind?
[*]What does Existence mean to the Soul?
[*]What does Existence mean to the Spirit?
[/list]

My way to interpret it as how I perceive reality would be as Follows:

<ul type="square">[*]My body is aware of its existence dues to the 5 senses i.e: Im can feel the wind im still not
dead..so my body is still alive.
[*]My Mind is aware of its existence since it tells my arms to Move and my arms follow
[*]My soul is aware of its existence since I can 'feel' Pain/Love/Hate/Lust In my dream/awake states
[*]My spirit is aware of its existence since it grows/diminishes with the input of my mind &amp; Soul
[/list]

 

[RainmanTime]

Matter, SpaceTime (Motion), Tetrahedral Model

Olly &amp; wa1ex,

There is an awful lot of Information at the following website. But I offer it up for you to study in-depth. You will certainly see correlations to things we have discussed here. Most notably you will see the following concepts as central to the first few papers at this web page:

Matter (consider what this person talks about with respect to my distinction between Matter and Mass)
SpaceTime (another word for SpaceTime, or Space/Time, is MOTION)
Tetrahedron as the base model for symmetry and physical conservation laws.

http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/jag8/index.html

Like I said, there is a lot here. But for now I suggest you focus on the first four links under the "Unified Field Theory" heading.

Then share your thoughts here about what is discussed therein... if you so choose.

RMT

 

[RainmanTime]

Re: Embedded (Fractal) Tetrahedral Geometry

Hi wa1ex,

Finally getting back to some of your other comments/questions:

RMT:Who wants to take bets that if we jump to a higher-level system context from "Spirit/Soul/Mind/Body" that the next highest system will follow the same structure?

wa1ex:Can we have an example.... but come back to this system.

This would be difficult, and would take a long time (no pun intended). And to understand why, you only need to consider that the average human is BARELY in touch with their soul (many people outright deny it), and most humans are not at all in touch with their spirits. To give a meaningful example of what lies outside/above the levels of Mind/Soul/Spirit that you could "comprehend" would be difficult indeed. This is one reason why the study of Qabalah (Kabbalah) is a time-consuming endeavor. I know this is not the answer you were hoping for, but I cannot lie to you. If you want to "grok" what is above our aphysical matrix, you must first endeavor to more fully understand that aphysical matrix.

So if i understand correctly, in the future the Soul could be represented mathematically just like Energy? Artificial intelligence...not far off?
So if the spirit and the soul could be represented mathematically then information and Energy are tied together?

Major BINGO, wa1ex! In fact, I have explained my scientific theory about the relationship between Energy and Information in several other threads.... one thread was specifically dedicated to this topic, and describing how the Massive SpaceTime matrix of physicality is embedded within Momentum, and Momentum is embedded within Energy, and Energy is embedded within Information. This hierachy of control/embedding is fully vetted by existing physical conservation laws.

Five additional senses? can you share this later?

Not likely to be shared here. Again, to explain the foundational basis for this before I would feel comfortable revealing what I think those "extended senses" are would take a great many words and paragraphs. One might say it could take an entire book... and it will. When the book that explains this is complete and ready for publication, I will let you know where and how to acquire a copy to read about it.

In the meantime, let me share some pertinent information from another book, written by someone else who is versed in the connection between Qabalah and science:

This is the background for the appearance of the wisdom of Kabbalah, which offers humanity a new perspective, a scientific worldview that Kabbalists discovered thousands of years ago. Our current desire to know all of reality shows that humanity is ready to be exposed to Kabbalah.

The Kabbalistic perception of the world includes premises that other religions accept on faith, coupled with a scientific approach. Kabbalah develops tools within us that welcome us into a comprehensive reality and provide means to research it.

"Kabbalah, Science and the Meaning of Life" presents the fundamentals of the science that explores the aspects of reality hidden from scientists. When we discover those hidden parts, our knowledge of the world we live in will be complete. By uniting both the hidden and the revealed, we will prepare ourselves for accurate scientific research and the discovery of the genuine formulae.

By uncovering the hidden, our view of the world will become complete, liberated from the boundaries of relative perception and we will be able to unveil the existence of every part of reality, beyond time, space and motion. The Wisdom of Kabbalah grants all the above to anyone who truly seeks it.

All of this, and more, can be found at THIS web page, where you can find a link to where you can purchase this new book by Dr. Laitman.

RMT

 

[RainmanTime]

Five Senses, Frequency, & Five Senses BEYOND

Hey Wa1ex,

After thinking about it the past few days, I really decided I wasn't very fair to you about one of your questions. I felt I should at least give you more than I did in trying to answer this question:

Five additional senses? can you share this later?

If you wish to begin to understand the "five aphysical senses" that I have concluded are part of our aphysical Beings, then it would help to consider some scientific facts about how our existing, apparent, five physical senses are ordered with respect to one another. That's fair enough, right?

I would like you to understand that all five of our physical senses are related to one another in an embedded fashion. And there is a single, physical, measureable parameter (metric) that describes the "dimension" across which our five senses are embedded, one within another. This correlating metric is what we call FREQUENCY, and the embedded relationship of the five senses can be related to the FREQUENCY RESPONSE of each of these five physical senses.

If you think about our five senses, it is hard to deny that you can logically order them from highest FREQUENCY RESPONSE to lowest. Without a doubt, science has shown us that SIGHT is our sense with the highest FREQUENCY RESPONSE, and the frequencies that our SIGHT responds to are defined as the narrow band between infrared and ultraviolet in the E/M spectrum.

It is also futile for anyone to deny that our second highest FREQUENCY RESPONSE physical human sense is that of HEARING. If you investigate the range of frequencies that our human ears can detect pressure waves we call sounds, you will see that it is a much lower frequency.

Does anyone reading this thread (active participant or lurker) think they can define the progression towards lower FREQUENCY RESPONSE by ordering our other three senses below SIGHT and HEARING? HINT: As frequencies get lower, our senses get closer and closer to directly touching and ingesting MATTER. And might I say that is one very big, huge, gigantic hint!

Jesu Christo!!! (Exclamation, not a religious reference!) If that didn't give away some BIG HINTS about my work and where it is headed, then folks just ain't paying attention! :D And if folks still don't "get it" then I suggest you read and re-read OvLrdLegion's thread titled: The Key Of Time. While he may be a bit too modest to admit it, I can assure you that OvLrdLegion has a very scientific grasp on what Time really is.

SUMMARY:
Our physical bodies consist of FIVE Physical Senses.
These 5 senses are fractally ordered (embedded) with respect to Frequency.
If it is True that we actually possess an "aphysical body" then should it also not have 5 senses to mirror our physical body?
If so, then what sort of relationship do you think would exist between these alleged FIVE Aphysical Senses?

That is as far as I am going to go on this public forum. The rest will be in a book.
RMT

 

[OllyB]

Re: Five Senses, Frequency, & Five Senses BEYOND

Hi Ray,

I've Only just read this post and have not caught up on the ones i have missed through my absense (including the one in which you provided the link - which i will read tomorrow).

I would definitly agree with your assumtion on the ordering of the senses;

Smell
Touch
Taste

all being below Sight &gt; Hearing. I certainly seems that we take the plunge with the last one, as it should be, seeing as this one is the catalyst that sustains the frequency of the body in this domain.

If there is an aphysical body which must be likely then it must have a mirror senses as you suggest. Which would also bring the total number up to 10 which i believe is always a significant universal number (each body being harmanized with 5 respectively). Could it also be that the much sought after "sixth sense", is in fact us using our respective 5 aphysical mirror senses?

The ego is in part created by our reactions to physical senses, so it would find it hard to distinguish between the five aphysical ones respectively. It would be no surpirse to find that it automatically trys to comprehend them as one collective sense (the sixth one) which may be very wrong indeed.

The aphysical body must have much higher freqency detection as the body itself allows a higher perception. For example; sight will go beyond the lower frequencies of "physical" light, which would void the regular nessesary physics needed for sight to operate. For example "second sight", the ability to view without the need for lower frequency to detect lower frequency Eyes/photons.

Hearing - to hear high frequencies. To detect the informational intention of anothers high frequency aphysical bodies. The audible frequencies are not slowed down via passing through other lower material frequencies. Hearing of the aphysical is akin to nonmaterial thought. Picking up the non-linear intention of others instantly is one aspect of telepathy.

Ray do you think that the aphysical (maybe this is stating the obvious a bit) body exists in the domain that holds the potential fot this one to carry on existing?
And this is why things filter down to this one secondary, to the aphysical?

I think that at this time - we are starting to see individuals (granted the genuine cases are extremely rare, hidden by false new-agers) that are starting to track back through their senses to the higher aphysical ones?

There must be and aspect of the CPU (brain) that connects the information of the two systems, that allow such people to operate in this domain whilst working in the other. Also key parts of us: the nerves/optic nerves etc must also have a merging universal designs where by they can pick up each others domains.

Which i suppose in a sense brings us back to all the prep we did with the sacred geometry that holds in place this universe (the pyramids) Functional/physical/operational domains.

I'd be interested in how the design of the physical and aphysical heart specifically, connect to each other.

Well, I am not sure quite - if this fits into your intented area or not. Or if i am more going into my own thoughts that are not parallel to yours.

I will read the link you had provided a few posts up, tomorrow.

Kindest regards,
Olly

 

[RainmanTime]

5 Physical + 5 Aphysical Senses

Olly,

I would definitly agree with your assumtion on the ordering of the senses;

Smell
Touch
Taste

all being below Sight &gt; Hearing.

And science also agrees with this order. These five physical senses of ours are neatly aligned in order of descending frequency response. We have talked about frequency &amp; resonance in OvLrd's Key of Time thread. Our sense of smell is a resonant effect, and it relates to energy (in the form of mass particles suspended in air) which is emitted/radiated outward from its source towards us and our noses. Our olefactory sense responds to specific resonances as registering certain smells in our brain. By the time we get down to lower frequencies we arrive at touch where we must actually make physical contact with some other mass object in order to enact this sense.

I certainly seems that we take the plunge with the last one, as it should be, seeing as this one is the catalyst that sustains the frequency of the body in this domain.

And yes, certainly as you point out, our sense of taste is the lowest frequency sense, and as such it needs even more complete and "intimate" contact with a certain mass for a mass-to-mass interaction to take place on our tastebuds. The system of human tastebuds are sensor systems which resonate with specific tastes (salty, sweet, sour, and bitter) in combination, and the brain interprets these resonances at what we taste.

Obviously the more dense the concentration of mass-energy exchange that is involved in a sense, the lower its frequency response. This means that mass, as we perceive it, is really nothing more than ULTRA LOW FREQUENCY ENERGY VIBRATIONS. Mass is NOT made up of reductionist particles! Mass is a STANDING WAVE phenomenon at VERY low frequencies. But our mind perceives it as particles due to the limitations of our senses.

All of this is explained by the ancient knowledge inherent in the geometric models of Qabalah and the Tree Of Life. And people like myself (and others) are methodically unlocking the mathematics that describes these scientific models.

Could it also be that the much sought after "sixth sense", is in fact us using our respective 5 aphysical mirror senses?

I think you've got it. The only thing I would add would be to consider this as a Macrocosm/Microcosm (fractal, embedded) structure and relationship. Our five physical senses are clearly our MACROSCOPIC senses that deliver to us Information/Energy about the universe around us. What some have called a single, "sixth sense" is (as you point out) really the integrated operation of 5 aphysical senses and they operate with the MICROCOSM of our aphysical selves (Mind/Soul/Spirit). If someone does not believe this is how it is, they will have to wait for my book where I lay out all the scientific connections and math. /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif

The aphysical body must have much higher freqency detection as the body itself allows a higher perception. For example; sight will go beyond the lower frequencies of "physical" light, which would void the regular nessesary physics needed for sight to operate. For example "second sight", the ability to view without the need for lower frequency to detect lower frequency Eyes/photons.

Good. Very good. You are right on track. But I would suggest you focus on the simple fact that our "aphysical senses" operate at frequencies that are HIGHER than vision (our highest physical sense). Meditate and think about this deeply before you decide to come to any potential conclusions about how our aphysical senses are structured. "Regular physics" still follows a universal order, even for our "aphysical senses". Granted, it does not follow the exact same order (physical laws) we perceive with our 5 physical senses... but I guarantee that they are fractally related (Macrocosm to Microcosm). IOW, the "laws of physics" that are obeyed in the aphysical realm are "fractally self-similar" (but not identical) to those on "this side of the veil" of Massive SpaceTime.

Ray do you think that the aphysical (maybe this is stating the obvious a bit) body exists in the domain that holds the potential fot this one to carry on existing?
And this is why things filter down to this one secondary, to the aphysical?

If I understand what you are inferring, I think I would agree... the physical body and the aphysical body are INTIMATELY LINKED. One cannot "exist" (in the normal sense of existence) without the other! This is precisely why the physical body dies when the aphysical body can no longer "connect" with it and exchange Information/Energy/Momentum. IOW, there is a "flow" of all these elements upwards and downwards on the Tree Of Life... which represents flows of Information/Energy/Momentum between the aphysical and physical bodies. Again, it is the MACROCOSM interacting with the MICROCOSM that explains the fullness of our Being (I AM).

I think that at this time - we are starting to see individuals (granted the genuine cases are extremely rare, hidden by false new-agers) that are starting to track back through their senses to the higher aphysical ones?

Yes. And this PRECISELY corresponds to the "climbing up the Tree Of Life"... as our mystical journey in Life.... while at the same TIME this can be quantified scientifically (which is part of my "job" in this incarnation). Our totality of our Physical+Aphysical Beings can be modeled, studied, and understood more deeply with the simple (yet complex) tools of embedded systems engineering.

There must be and aspect of the CPU (brain) that connects the information of the two systems, that allow such people to operate in this domain whilst working in the other.

This is the realm of the ancient Masters. This is what individuals like Moses, Mohammed, Jesus, Krishna tapped-into. And each and every one of these "incarnations of the I AM" were here to tell us that ALL OF US ARE EQUAL in this regard. We all possess the capability to do what they did. And we can and will quantify this scientifically. That is what this "era" of Time in our evolution is all about. Reaching towards the SCIENCE OF INTENTION.

Which i suppose in a sense brings us back to all the prep we did with the sacred geometry that holds in place this universe (the pyramids) Functional/physical/operational domains.

Most perceptive of you to see that connection. That is exactly why I have kept this as my "signature line". The (Operational-Functional-Physical) 3-D systemic model is the systems engineering tool for "reality engineering" that I discuss above. This is PRECISELY the tool I use to manipulate INFORMATION into an eventual aerospace system design. Any person who is willing to put in the TIME to learn this technology can apply it in their life to achieve the Creation of their deepest INTENTIONS.

I'd be interested in how the design of the physical and aphysical heart specifically, connect to each other.

Well, I am not sure quite - if this fits into your intented area or not. Or if i am more going into my own thoughts that are not parallel to yours.

We can get to this specific relationship at some point. But for now I'd encourage you to keep thinking about how you might RECOGNIZE and USE your 5 aphysical senses in conjunction with your physical body/senses. Perhaps we (you me and the lurkers and other contributors) should discuss what we think about this topic... and in doing so help others to "awaken" to another whole aspect of ourselves that exists "beyond the veil of Massive SpaceTime" in the realms of our Mind, Soul, and Spirit.

What do you think?
RMT

 

[OllyB]

Re: 5 Physical + 5 Aphysical Senses

I think that we might have reach the end of my limited understanding and ability to steer the Wagon.

Looks like you might have to provide us with a few clues on which route to go down or at least start to think about. in order to advance from here.

I think that it would be a shame for this thread to disappear now, when we have only just got started?


Kind regards,
Olly

 

[wa1ex]

Re: 5 Physical + 5 Aphysical Senses

Obviously the more dense the concentration of mass-energy exchange that is involved in a sense, the lower its frequency response. This means that mass, as we perceive it, is really nothing more than ULTRA LOW FREQUENCY ENERGY VIBRATIONS. Mass is NOT made up of reductionist particles! Mass is a STANDING WAVE phenomenon at VERY low frequencies. But our mind perceives it as particles due to the limitations of our senses.

So gravity has more of an effect on low frequency standing waves? and less of an effect on high frequency waves like UV?

The aphysical body must have much higher freqency detection as the body itself allows a higher perception. For example; sight will go beyond the lower frequencies of "physical" light, which would void the regular nessesary physics needed for sight to operate. For example "second sight", the ability to view without the need for lower frequency to detect lower frequency Eyes/photons.

Now that you bring that up Olly, I always wondered what would it be like if the frequency spectrum of our physical 5 senses covered the entire spectrum meaning:

I could smell music
I could see UV, or colors that i never knew existed
I could hear and tell poeple apart just by heartbeats breathing tone of voice
I could taste colors
I could touch waves and really "feel" the music

I can't just imagine the possibilities! ( prob pink floyd is really pink /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif )

In reply to:
I'd be interested in how the design of the physical and aphysical heart specifically, connect to each other.

Well, I am not sure quite - if this fits into your intented area or not. Or if i am more going into my own thoughts that are not parallel to yours.

We can get to this specific relationship at some point. But for now I'd encourage you to keep thinking about how you might RECOGNIZE and USE your 5 aphysical senses in conjunction with your physical body/senses. Perhaps we (you me and the lurkers and other contributors) should discuss what we think about this topic... and in doing so help others to "awaken" to another whole aspect of ourselves that exists "beyond the veil of Massive SpaceTime" in the realms of our Mind, Soul, and Spirit.

Prob to awaken one sense we could shut down others? What I mean by that is without sight we become more "aware" of waht the other senses can truly do...

When I was a young lad my friend had an accident where he lost his left eye...well it turns out the right eye was already defective, and not able to see with it he was literally blind! After months of using a stick to guide himself his right eye somehow managed to see?!?! with 18/20 vision /ttiforum/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

Some other examples are people with Prosopagnosia (poeple unable to recognize face expresions or remember faces)...they report being able to listen more or react to body language tone of voice, smell....

Well turns out that after a study on this disease they concluded that emotions play a role on face recognition....the link were looking for?

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prosopagnosia

So as Olly was saying can we put the wagon on "autopilot" ? /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[KerrTexas]

Re: 5 Physical + 5 Aphysical Senses

It is interesting how the mind can work. I had a friend that had really bad eyesight. His glasses were extremely thick. Without them, he could barely see anything with clarity.

One day, he forgot to put them on, but thought he had. He was able to see perfectly fine, until he walked into the bathroom and glancing in the mirror, he saw he didnt have his glasses on.

As soon as he realized they werent there, he lost his vision, until he found and put his glasses on.

He went to the medical professionals, and they confirmed he had eye problems....

...apparently his mind thought otherwise for a brief moment in time.

 

[RainmanTime]

Engaging Our Autopilots!

wa1ex and Olly:

Sorry for the long TIME LAG between your posts and this reply. But someTIMEs THINGS have to be allowed to develop in their own TIME FRAMES.

So as Olly was saying can we put the wagon on "autopilot" ?

Your choice of words here, wa1ex, are so very appropriate! You may not even realize how appropriate they are, because we can readily describe our human Mind as a control system ("autopilot") for our physical bodies. In fact, I have written a paper describing the application of a 3x3 matrix of fractally-embedded control systems ("levels of autopilots") for AI aircraft flight control system designs.

I can't provide that paper, and I will not describe the upper fractal layers of this 4-layer model here. However, I can describe the lowest two levels of the model, and they are:

0) Our Autopilot Level (Mind), which is in control of (one fractal level just above) our...
1) Physical Level (Body).

We have covered a lot of ground since the beginning of this thread, and perhaps before we engage the autopilot it would be good for us to review and agree upon some basic truths. Olly and wa1ex, since you are the two who have helped this thread along the most, I would like to ask you both to consider the following questions, and provide your thoughts and/or answers to them. And let me know if you agree with these basic assertions before we move on, OK? This is not to say that others (OvLrd, Zerub, CAT, whoever) who have contributed to this thread cannot also answer/agree/disagree with these questions, or provide their own thoughts! In fact, the more the better!

1) Could we agree that the architecture of the Physical Human Body is based on a balanced, 3x3 Matrix of perception and action subsystems?
I think it can be readily shown that the human physical body has a Head subsystem, a Chest subsystem, and a Pelvic subsystem. And this 3x3 matrix of physical body subsystems perform various discrete physical functions that keep the human body alive.

2) Would we agree that our personal descriptions of our shared Physical Reality (physics) are based upon a balanced set of THREE measurements (Mass, Space, and Time)?
If you can agree to this, I assure you that I can provide a tensor math description of Mass, Space, and Time as the 3x3 Matrix of Massive SpaceTime that I always go on about. /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif

3) Can we explore the ability to agree that our most advanced equations of science that describe the laws of physics (Kepler, Newton, Einstein, Ohm, Maxwell, Mach, Tesla) ALL describe the limits of physical realization as a mixture of MATTER-in-MOTION, which combines to define a specific TIME LINE?

For right now, I think these 3 questions are enough. These questions are just my way of making sure we are all on the same level of understanding and agreement about this specific mathematical and systemic model of the universe. (3x3 Matrix and its relationship to geometry and pyramids)

If I make the assumption that we can all generally agree upon the 3 items above, I would like to end this post with a statement that I believe to be factual, but which not everyone may agree is factual:

The Secrets of the Pyramids are intimately (geometrically and mathematically) linked to the Secrets of the Human Body Physical Architecture.

Now an observation about how we go about "engaging our autopilots": We are often told by folklore &amp; rules of thumb to "follow our noses", right? This has more than one level of truth (the physical nose), but even at the physical level we can see that our human noses are in the center of our head/face, and they are shaped as a 3-D, bilaterally-symmetric PYRAMID shape.

Our physical human noses are mini-pyramids, and they provide an important sense of smell AND sense of direction. Our eyes and brain can site along the point of our noses as a means to plan our navigation as we walk. And when we walk forward, looking at objects and avoiding a collision with them, we are LITERALLY FOLLOWING OUR NOSES.

All of these "coincidences" about sets of THREEs and TRIANGLES and PYRAMIDS are not coincidences at all, as wa1ex's sig line points out to us. The 3x3 matrix structure is SPECIAL and SIGNIFICANT in the overall fractal MATRIX stucture of our physical reality... and I would also postulate that the 3x3 matrix is also SPECIAL and SIGNIFICANT in describing the overall fractal MATRIX structures of our non-physical Minds, our Souls, and our Spirits.

And as always...I welcome anyone and everyone to falsify the models and thoughts that I put forth. Show me where I am wrong, if you can. I am always open to falsification if it can be formally presented and proven.

RMT

 

[StarLord]

Re: Engaging Our Autopilots!

Rainman,

What about each locus/chackra coresponding to a specific "inner body" which in turn corresponds to a higher point of consciousness? i.e Physical, Astral, Causal, Mental, &amp; Soul?

 

[OllyB]

Re: Engaging Our Autopilots!

I havent forgotten about this thread either. I'm just busy sorting something at the moment. I'll get back to it as soon as possible!!

 

[RainmanTime]

Re: Engaging Our Autopilots!

What about each locus/chackra coresponding to a specific "inner body" which in turn corresponds to a higher point of consciousness? i.e Physical, Astral, Causal, Mental, &amp; Soul?

Ants in my pants, Starlord!!!! I dish I would fish, and tell you my wish! ARRRRRRGGGGGH!

Why don't you earn and burn, know what he turns? A bad time for all, and that is not lip. Keep hip, no drip!

RMT