What Happens If?

Mr. Novak,

"I will unambiguously address and do my level best to answer any questions you have regarding this whole Zeshua thing"

No. Not "this whole Zeshua thing". Only the points made in response by myself and jmpet to your interpretations of Zeshua. No more, no less.

"if you agree to unambiguously address and do your level best to answer my questions about this Zeshua thing."

I have only agreed to address your as-stated points above, because you continue to harp on them as if they are significant. I will address no more and no less.

"That is all well and good, but I'd like to propose that we raise the stakes a bit further than you suggested. I propose that we agree to do our level best to identify exactly where we agree and where we disagree on all points, and in the areas of disagreement, lets try to find out exactly why we cannot agree on those points."

Since you have demonstrably adopted the technique of applying your own thoughts, beliefs, and interpretations to the literal words of another (Zeshua), I am sure you would have no problem with me adopting this same technique with your words. So my interpretation of what Peter is saying here (which could well be true) is that he is playing a game. His use of the words "raise the stakes a bit further" reveals this interpretation to be a reasonable view. In "raising the stakes" it appears that Mr. Novak wants to continue this discussion ad nauseum so as to give him a platform for his continued "sales" of the Zeshua story, and to spread more propaganda that will assist "team Zeshua" in achieving their self-centered goals. I would like to ask jmpet if he thinks this is a reasonable interpretation of Mr. Novak's "code".

And now, I will do precisely what I committed to do. It is my hope that you will abide by your pledge to address those points made to you that you have yet to address.

{How did Zeshua, whoever you think s/he is, know the date of the Pope’s death a month in advance?}

S/he did not know this, and never did she specifically state that this was the date the pope would die. You have inferred it from several things that are not explicit. To be clear: Zeshua never stated "the pope will die on April 3rd 2005." Your inference that this is what Zeshua meant relies on one flimsy assumption: That an American who is overseas would necessarily adopt the European standard for citing a date. If this assumption cannot be proven to be true, then your link between the date cited when Zeshua asked "What would happen if the pope died?" is dead. Personally, I worked in Germany for a period of 8 months out of 12 in the early 1990s, and never did I write to my friends and countrymen in the USA and adopt the European form for citing a date. When dealing with Europeans I may have, but if I were writing to Americans on an American website I would use the American standard date format.

{How did s/he know in advance that Terri Schiavo and the Pope would die within days of one another?}

Zeshua never stated, nor even implied, this as a prediction anywhere in his/her posts here on this site. This was your interpretation (and thus subject to error) by stretching the literal meaning of the few words s/he made on this topic.

{How did s/he know that Terri would die first, and then the Pope quickly thereafter?}

Zeshua never stated, nor even implied, this as a prediction anywhere in his/her posts here on this site. This was your interpretation (and thus subject to error) by stretching the literal meaning of the few words s/he made on this topic.

{How did s/he know that Terri’s feeding tube would not be re-inserted?}

Zeshua never stated, nor even implied, this as a prediction anywhere in his/her posts here on this site. This was your interpretation (and thus subject to error) by stretching the literal meaning of the few words s/he made on this topic.

{How did s/he know that no violence in the streets would occur over Terri?}

Zeshua never stated, nor even implied, this as a prediction anywhere in his/her posts here on this site. This was your interpretation (and thus subject to error) by stretching the literal meaning of the few words s/he made on this topic. Moreover, predicting a "negative event" such as this is far from amazing, even if Zeshua did do it (which s/he didn't). Violence in the streets of America in response to a major news event is a rareity. Indeed lack of violence in such cases is the norm. So predicting this would be equivalent to predicting that the sun will rise tomorrow. Statistically it is insignificant, despite the fact that Zeshua did not predict this.

{How did s/he know to warn Sosuemetoo about a coming bad weekend that turned out to include both a divorce and an unexpected death in her family?}

The simplest of all. Because "Sosuemetoo" is part of your sycophantic Zeshua "clique" who, like you, does not critically question Zeshua's "predictions", and given her rush to always support the Zeshua story and you, she is simply part of the "clan". She can claim anything she wants, but claims do not constitute verifiable evidence that this did, in fact, occur. I could say more about the subjective nature of saying "you are going to have a bad weekend" and tying this to a specific event, but I will save that for later when you deny and/or argue against all of these answers.

{How did s/he know that America’s next “major event” after May 2005 would be a “crisis” that came from “the sky”?}

This is the one that deserves the most detailed response because it is so clear that you are invoking "confirmation bias" to make this fit. First, it has already been pointed out to you that hurricanes come from the sea and not from the sky. Further evidence that this is not a match is proven that the major damage that occurred in New Orleans was not due to wind, but due to the levees bursting and thus it was damage from the sea, not the sky. But more evidence of your confirmation bias in your decision to "assign" Katrina to Zeshua's "prediction" is evident when you look at the long list of other potential events in the US that happened after Zeshua's "prediction" that would just as easily prove her prediction was incorrect.

The first, and most ironic "next major event for the US" was one that you also try to assign so much hype to Zeshua. Terri Schiavo. So tell me, why do you ignore the potential of "the next major event for the United States" being the very hotly-debated issue of allowing Terri Schiavo to pass on? This was clearly a major national issue, so much so that Congress even got involved and attempted to prevent her feeding tube from being removed. If Congress gets involved to attempt to enact legislation with regard to something going on in the news, there is little argument that this news story is a "major event". Now you could make the argument that "well, this had nothing to do with anything coming from the sky", and indeed this would serve to prove Zeshua was wrong about the next major event. But this (the death of Terri Schiavo) was only the first of many potential candidates for what some might consider "the next major event for the United States." Clearly, we would need a solid definition of "major event" to even begin to assess what Zeshua was really trying to predict. My view is she was not predicting anything. She was casting a wide net and hoping to catch something. But now let's look at other potential "major events" that happened before Katrina:

1) Georgia court suspect escapes from custody and kills 3 people in the process - March 11, 2005.
2) Minnesota shooting rampage of Jeff Weise - March 21, 2005.
3) Off-course general aviation airplane strays off-course near the White House - May 11, 2005.
4) US Senate standoff on GW Bush's supreme court nominees - Resolved in late May 2005.
5) Watergate era informant known as "Deep Throat" revealed to be Mark Felt - Also late May 2005.
6) Justice Sandra Day O'Conner resigns from the supreme court - July 1, 2005.
7) Reporter jailed for failing to testify in the Valerie Plame CIA leak case - July 6, 2005.
8) Presidential advisor Karl Rove named as the source of the Valerie Plame leak - July 10, 2005.
9) Senate approves making most of the provisions in the PATRIOT Act permanent - July 29, 2005.
10) Governors of New Mexico and Arizona declare "states of emergency" in their states due to the border issue and illegal immigration - August 12-16, 2005.

{How did she know in May 2005 that Australia’s drought would last at least another 18 months?}

Zeshua never stated, nor even implied, this as a prediction anywhere in his/her posts here on this site. This was your interpretation (and thus subject to error) by stretching the literal meaning of the few words s/he made on this topic.

{How did s/he know all of this stuff? If you think you’ve got everything all figured out, then explain this to me, because I’d really, honestly, like to disbelieve in Zeshua. Show me a way.}

I and others have been showing you a way, but you are not acknowledging it perhaps because you do not agree it is "a way". However, logical, critical analysis looking for specific "hits" and "misses" does not permit using vague generalities. But like I say, you are not likely to see this as "a way to disbelieve Zeshua". So let me give you another:

Instead of focusing on those "predictions" (or inventing predictions s/he did not make) how about also considering those things s/he said that clearly were predictions, and which it would seem were complete misses:

- A Pre-emptive strike occurs between two war bound countries in Europe/Asia.
- 2 Federal buildings are completely destroyed.
- A Sudden outbreak of influenza.
- The Patriot Act ends up in court, its powers used to spy on civilians "For their own good"
- A 3rd becomes next.
- A Massive Financial meltdown that puts the Euro as the preferred Global Currency. Repercussions abound to the almighty US Dollar.
- A New form of computer virus programmed by a small team of individuals sweeps the globe within 24 hours.
- The Telluride Occurrence


There we go. Nicely wrapped-up and tied with a bow, just in time for Christmas for you Mr. Novak. I hope you enjoy and appreciate these logical answers to your ficticious "predictions" you have assigned to the words of Zeshua. I certainly hope you now keep your end of the bargain. However, if I might do a little predicting of the future, you will likely not keep your end of the bargain, and instead you will begin to argue the logical statements I have made above to address your "burning issues".

Now that I have addressed your issues, they can go away. But somehow I feel that you will not let them go away. That is your choice, not mine.

Good day, sir.
 
"I have the original posts logged, when they were made by Zeshua while she was here. I went through them a few days ago and I've found no difference in what is here now."

This statement is demonstrably false when you notice that on more than one post by Zeshua the "Edited by" annotation is present at the bottom of the post. Further to this fact, are you also claiming that the "blank" post that started the thread below was not changed? I would bet that using any one of the web archive facilities one might be able to find out what this post (which is now blank) actually said.

http://www.timetravelinstitute.com/ttiforum/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=time_travel&Number=38488&Forum=All_Forums&Words=Zeshua&Match=Username&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&Old=allposts&Main=38488&Search=true#Post38488

It also seems that another poster caught Zeshua in an after-the-fact modification to the famous (infamous?) "pope benedict" post, and that poster noted that Zeshua modified the original post to add the words "1Benedict6".

http://www.timetravelinstitute.com/ttiforum/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=time_travel&Number=32528&Forum=All_Forums&Words=Zeshua&Match=Username&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&Old=allposts&Main=32528&Search=true#Post32528

This post is even one of the ones that Zeshua did modify by editing. So it would seem you are wrong, Sosuemetoo.
 
This statement is demonstrably false when you notice that on more than one post by Zeshua the "Edited by" annotation is present at the bottom of the post. Further to this fact, are you also claiming that the "blank" post that started the thread below was not changed? I would bet that using any one of the web archive facilities one might be able to find out what this post (which is now blank) actually said.

http://www.timetravelinstitute.com/ttiforum/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=time_travel&Number=38488&Forum=All_Forums&Words=Zeshua&Match=Username&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&Old=allposts&Main=38488&Search=true#Post38488

I don't deny that particular post had changed. Whatever it was, it changed quickly as I saw it just a few hours after she posted. We do have one way of knowing what she said. Rainman quoted her in his post less than 15 minutes later.

[Shooting for 20 years .25>.24219, (4*.24219 is .96876~1)*4=3.87504~4 should put this at Feb 22nd 2005]
This is similar to her introductory posts in Feb 2005.

It also seems that another poster caught Zeshua in an after-the-fact modification to the famous (infamous?) "pope benedict" post, and that poster noted that Zeshua modified the original post to add the words "1Benedict6".

http://www.timetravelinstitute.com/ttiforum/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=time_travel&Number=32528&Forum=All_Forums&Words=Zeshua&Match=Username&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&Old=allposts&Main=32528&Search=true#Post32528
My only argument was that I was sitting on that thread when it occurred. I posted before ModerndayTT did. It is possible MDTT did not see the entire message.
 
"I don't deny that particular post had changed. Whatever it was, it changed quickly as I saw it just a few hours after she posted. "

I am glad you agree that the post changed. I would hope you would also agree that other posts of Zeshua could have and did change. Peter has claimed to be looking for ways to disbelieve Zeshua. I will assume that since you are a close acquaintance of Peter's that you would also be earnest in looking for some way to discredit Zeshua and his/her story. If so, I would like you and Peter to think deeply about this very issue: modifying posts after-the-fact. This is another one, of many, areas where as jmpet points out, the Zeshua story just does not make sense... and is self-contradictory.

Question: If Zeshua is posting from the future, as s/he has claimed, what possible reason could s/he have for needing to modify a post in the past?

If you think about this question viz-a-viz the story as related by Zeshua, you will have to agree that Zeshua, reading this forum from the future, allegedly already has access to not only all of the responses to her posts, but to the posts themselves. Without having to use any form of "quantum tunneling" technology at all, Zeshua in 2025 should have been able to read the entire content of this website, including her own contributions even before she "perfected" this mysterious quantum tunneling technology to "punch thru" to the past and post in 2005. So why would s/he ever need to modify a post? All s/he has to do it cut-and-paste for chrissake!

Further to this logical fact, the very fact that s/he had to modify a post of his/hers at all is all the proof that anyone should need to understand that she cannot, in fact, tunnel to the past to post messages. If she could then there would never be any "mistakes" or any need for correcting any of her original posts. The one that sticks out the most is the post-facto modification of the infamous "pope" thread, where s/he added a poetic hidden line about Ratzinger, and then once s/he (the hoaxer) knew which name that Ratizinger had chosen went back to modify that hidden message to add the "1Benedict6" at the end. If s/he really was who s/he claims to be, and really possesses the capabilities that s/he claims, then s/he would have known Ratzinger selected the name Benedict XVI and would have included it in the original message.

Now only a fool would try to argue-away this simple fact of temporal logic any further. If you are honest and sincere about seeking out a way to debunk Zeshua, this is one of the simplest and most powerful means: Zeshua should never need to modify any original post whatsoever, since s/he already has access to all of the content of this website in the future, by her own admission. If you and Peter do not relegate Zeshua to the scrapheap of hoaxes at this point, then there can be no other conclusion than it is because you are part of the hoax.

END.OF.STORY.
 
U.S. West still owes me $1500. U.S. West did other things also and think they can apply their whims also. There are other things also involving the President of the Selective Service System. Do not have them apply their whims here where so far I still live, because I am from Illinois and there in the Capital sits the Statue of President Lincoln. I am attempting to move back to Illinois but that also is a mess of political crap in this Country anymore, so if anything changes, it better be liberals who still claim they can do anything espeically ones that went to that stupid Catholic Schools here. Chicago is a town they talk about, then why did some of them visit it for their reasons because in this State the Senator rather make this town - farmland.
 
Question: If Zeshua is posting from the future, as s/he has claimed, what possible reason could s/he have for needing to modify a post in the past?

This is a good question. It is a very good question.

(I am in the process of systematically preparing my aforementioned response in accordance with our earlier agreement, but in the meantime I thought I could slip in the following little comment in a more timely fashion.)

Your question, above, is indeed a very good question. However, just because you cannot think of any other answers to the question doesn't mean that no such other answers exist. A child may assume his parents are being unkind because they won't let the child play in the street, but even though the child cannot conceive of any other reason for the parents choice doesn't mean the child is correct. It simply means that the child wasn't aware of all of the facts of the matter.

Simplarly, you are assuming that you have all the necessary facts to judge this situation wisely, when in fact there is no particular reason to make such an assumption.

Long ago, mankind replied pretty much exclusively on logical assumptions such as you have done here. They assumed they had all the pertinent and necessary data, and they assumed that their logic was sound, and then they assumed without testing or confirmation that their subsequent conclusions were valid. Those were the Dark Ages. But then we witnessed something called the "Enlightenment", when our civilization finally realized that when the need for evidence is ignored, when we never bother to actually test our hypotheses, then self-indulgent narcissism flourishes. When our culture turned to the scientific method, we learned that science can and does reveal actual evidence. Science does not allow us to ground our view of reality upon mere assumptions, but instead demands actual evidence. These validity claims insure that people's egos cannot impose a view of reality on the universe that finds no support from the universe itself. Validity claims and evidence force us to confront reality, demanding evidence from the rest of the cosmos.

Now, all you have done is offer a hypothesis. The only way to tell if a hypothesis is correct is to test it. You test a hypothesis by asking if it accounts for all of the facts at hand. Yours does not. While your hypothesis does have the appearance of explaining a few of the facts at hand, it leaves other facts, other mysteries associated with Zeshua, completely unexplained.

Your hypothesis does not, for example, explain how Zeshua has made so many correct predictions. Those predictions are the 800 pound elephant in the room. They are the very essence of the Zeshua story, and if you aim your arrows anywhere else you will only be wrestling with relative trivialities. But explain the predictions and you'll know you have found the truth of the matter.

- Peter
 
Most of you don't know me, few of you do(Peter, Sosuemetoo and NiteScott). I am part of this, shall we say, "secret" group that has been in contact privately with Zeshua. Now Indazona, I admire your way of viewing things and how to find a place and idea on how to debunk Zeshua but I am afraid that your theory of "she can see all the posts in her time and copy paste" is wrong. Lets just put this way: there were many forums and many websites in 1996, correct? Can you go to those forums and websites right now? We are talking 10 yearas in the past, and those sites, if they are not Amazon or something like that, won't be there. This site might not be there in 2026. Atleast it might not be there the way it exists right now. Problems happen all the time when it comes to the internet, databases are lost etc.

As for "she doesn't need to edit her posts", you are once again wrong. She is connected to us in a Real-Time basis. She has explained this before. Meaning that she can post something and if it alters the future in one way or the other, she will have to come and edit the post (note: she is not reposting it) because she can't go "back" and post it from scratch because of the Real-Time Factor.

As for the whole Pope thing, you are once again incorrect. Assuming that you said that she edited her post after the Pope died so that the date fitted, you are wrong. I saw that from the very beginning, and notified the group about it. So imagine my surprise when he actually died that day.

Thats all for now, thank you.

Happy Holidays!
Yeyeman
 
As far as Zeshua giving personal predictions etc... I just don't buy it. It makes no sense... think about it: how could Zeshua possibly get that kind of information! There's over 300 million people living now, each with a medical record and all of them confidential. It makes no sense. This is like me contacting 1975 and some stranger I never met asking if their Aunt Shirley's shingles will go away... how the hell am I supposed to know?!! So how the hell could Zeshua possibly get that kind of info on anyone today?

Yeah yeah I know. "The SSDI is online and anyone today can search death records. Zeshua predicted someone's death from the SSDI archives in the future." This only brings up another question: why is that Zeshua can't prove herself on a forum (because of the violations to history or timespace or whatever) but privately she's giving away all kinds of proof?

And if her predictions are anagrams (which is a very slippery slope), then she is intentionally obscuring the information realizing it would be decoded. This makes no sense. Either she can tell us stuff or she can't. But she's doing neither- she's making it intentionally difficult, vague and non-specific. Why would you go through the trouble to contact the past only to end up saying "Disaster Looms"?? This makes no sense. This is like telling moon astronauts to stay in the spaceship because their suits will get dirty.

By biggest problem with Zeshua is a lack of information, which brings us back to an earlier point I made- from Zeshua's perspective, this entire website' history is there laid bare for her to read... all posts written from 2000 to 2020 are right there on the screen. This means that even today, Zeshua can go back and post something a month ago. "But she can't because she's connected in real time. This is also why she edits posts."

Well I gotta tell you- even in the 25th century, a phone call's gonna cost a dime. But we are to believe that she has kept a modem/satellite/whatever line open for months?!! She never rebooted the computer ever? I don't care if it's 50 years in the future, at some point you gotta shut your computer off. I have high speed and a 24 hour connection and even I turn it off every few days just to give the circuits in my computer a break.

And in regards to:

>>As for the whole Pope thing, you are once again incorrect. Assuming that you said that she edited her post after the Pope died so that the date fitted, you are wrong. I saw that from the very beginning, and notified the group about it. So imagine my surprise when he actually died that day.<<

I guess the best proof I can give is the fact that the Pope died on 4/2/05, not 4/3/05. Zeshua's own prediction was wrong. Even if you switch the month and date it's still wrong. If this is all you got to prove a time traveling claim then you got nothing.

Now which is more likely:
-Zeshua wrote "the Pope will die 3/4/05" on 3/4/05
-"3/4/05" really means "2/4/05"
 
Question: If Zeshua is posting from the future, as s/he has claimed, what possible reason
could s/he have for needing to modify a post in the past?

There is a “Catch-22" when it comes to trying to judge the motivations of an alleged Time Traveler.
In the very act of deciding to try to make such a judgment, one has already pre-assumed the
conclusion. This is circular reasoning. One tries to judge the motivations of the alleged Time
Traveler in order to try to figure out if the person is really a Time Traveler or not, but in order
to do this, we must first make the unfounded assumption that we have enough data at hand to
understand how a real Time Traveler would think, and what would make them tick, and what their
motivations would be.

It is the same paradox exemplified in the Book of Job. Job had the unfounded arrogance to assume he
could judge God’s motivations, but in the end, it was made clear to him that he did not have the
data necessary to make such an evaluation. The same limitation would hold true with a Time
Traveler. They would have years (if not decades or even centuries) of data, history, science, and
culture that we would know absolutely nothing about, all of which could motivate them in all sorts
of ways that would be impossible for us to anticipate.


So, we cannot even hope to pretend to believe we are actually capable of “psychoanalyzing” a real
Time Traveler. Of course, we are used to trying to do so with our fellow human being of our own era,
but we cannot hope to be successful in such an effort if the one being “psychoanalyzed” is really
from the future.

Thus, the very attempt of trying to figure out or anticipate the motivations behind an alleged Time
Traveler pre-assumes that the person’s claim is false. And if that claim is not false, our
attempts at psychoanalyzing the TTer are doomed before we even begin.

As far as Zeshua giving personal predictions etc... I just don't buy it. It makes no sense.
That is an attempt to understand a TTEr’s motivations, which is a priori impossible if she is a
real TTEr.


think about it: how could Zeshua possibly get that kind of information! There's over 300
million people living now, each with a medical record and all of them confidential. It makes no
sense. This is like me contacting 1975 and some stranger I never met asking if their Aunt Shirley's
shingles will go away... how the hell am I supposed to know?!! So how the hell could Zeshua possibly
get that kind of info on anyone today?
Many medical records that are confidential in 2006 would not still hold that status in 2026.


why is that Zeshua can't prove herself on a forum (because of the violations to history or
timespace or whatever) but privately she's giving away all kinds of proof?
That is an attempt to understand a TTEr’s motivations, which is a priori impossible if she is a
real TTEr.


And if her predictions are anagrams (which is a very slippery slope), then she is
intentionally obscuring the information realizing it would be decoded. This makes no sense. Either
she can tell us stuff or she can't. But she's doing neither- she's making it intentionally
difficult, vague and non-specific. Why would you go through the trouble to....??
That is an attempt to understand a TTEr’s motivations, which is a priori impossible if she is a
real TTEr.

- Peter
 
So far, my predictions of the future (which are much more specific than Zeshua's) are all holding true. And while Peter has run-off-at-the-mouth syndrome over his beloved Zeshua in this thread and others, you will note he has not spent even a microsecond of time addressing the issues he has ignored all this time, per our agreement.

"(I am in the process of systematically preparing my aforementioned response in accordance with our earlier agreement, but in the meantime I thought I could slip in the following little comment in a more timely fashion.)"

Oh yes. Clearly we see that you think it is more important to debunk me than live up to your bargain, or even debunk Zeshua for that matter.

"Simplarly, you are assuming that you have all the necessary facts to judge this situation wisely, when in fact there is no particular reason to make such an assumption. "

Trying to debunk me, but not Zeshua. Yes. Well. Hmmm. Do you realize that this exact same statement that you try to hang on my analysis also applies to yours? In fact even moreso since you use assumption and belief where I only use literal words and facts.

"Now, all you have done is offer a hypothesis. The only way to tell if a hypothesis is correct is to test it. You test a hypothesis by asking if it accounts for all of the facts at hand. Yours does not."

And nor does yours. Before you even try to go down this road in your attempt to debunk me (and your absent attempts to debunk Zeshua), I think you should become familiar with Godel's Incompleteness Theorem. It addresses the fallacy of logic that you are trying to use here. It is a dead end Peter, so you might want to avoid wasting energy on this technique.

Now pay attention Peter, and all the rest from "Group Zeshua". I have made predictions, they are coming true. I could be your new prophet, for a small fee of course. Just look how this prediction I made is coming true:

12/22/06 - "So my interpretation of what Peter is saying here (which could well be true) is that he is playing a game. His use of the words "raise the stakes a bit further" reveals this interpretation to be a reasonable view. In "raising the stakes" it appears that Mr. Novak wants to continue this discussion ad nauseum so as to give him a platform for his continued "sales" of the Zeshua story, and to spread more propaganda that will assist "team Zeshua" in achieving their self-centered goals."

And look here, I also predicted this:

12/22/02 - "Now that I have addressed your issues, they can go away. But somehow I feel that you will not let them go away."
 
And so another member of "Group Zeshua" comes out to aid Master Peter and try to debunk the debunker (rather than trying to debunk the hoaxer Zeshua). No my friend, I am afraid to tell you that you are the one who is wrong on more than one account:

"but I am afraid that your theory of "she can see all the posts in her time and copy paste" is wrong."

Given the very nature of the Zeshua story there is absolutely no way for you to prove me wrong.

"This site might not be there in 2026. Atleast it might not be there the way it exists right now. Problems happen all the time when it comes to the internet, databases are lost etc."

Nice try. But obviously you have not studied your prophet's words closely enough. In fact I have studied them even more closely than you it would seem. If you go back and re-read all of your great prophet's postings you will find where s/he makes the comments that many people "in her time" have read this board. Whoops...guess you forgot about that one, huh?

"As for "she doesn't need to edit her posts", you are once again wrong. She is connected to us in a Real-Time basis. She has explained this before."

You are going to have to prove what she said is in fact truth before you can prove me wrong. Do you always believe anything that someone tells you? If so, I have some great beachfront property in Siberia I would like to sell you. You will love it. The only reason Zeshua is "connected to us in a Real-Time basis" is because s/he is a hoax. But you go ahead and believe whatever fantasy you wish. The fact that you cannot clearly see the paradox of her story that violates causality is not my problem.

"As for the whole Pope thing, you are once again incorrect. Assuming that you said that she edited her post after the Pope died so that the date fitted, you are wrong. "

And this is where you slip-up and become wrong, when you assume. You are talking about the pope's death post, and I was not. I was saying (really only pointing out what another poster had caught) that Zeshua went back and modified the "hidden message" in the thread "You have your New Pope.... Congratulations." So do you now wish to retract your "you are wrong" statement or will you now disappear with your tail between your legs like so many others?

This is all very entertaining, but my wife is calling me to clean the bird cage. Quite a bit more challenging than debunking the likes of you folks.
 
>>There is a “Catch-22" when it comes to trying to judge the motivations of an alleged Time Traveler.<<

No there's not. If someone claims to be from the future, then there must be some sort of authenticity to the claim, otherwise it's not a valid claim. If I said I am really a space alien from Rigel-7, would you believe me or ask for proof? Please answer.

>>It is the same paradox exemplified in the Book of Job.<<

Please don't quote the Bible, especially in the context of a time traveling hoaxter. The Bible is such a crutch for Bible followers because just like Zeshua, it's vague and unspecified enough to where you can quote and twist and add until it means whatever you want it to. It's funny- the Bible Hitler used to justify killing the Jews is the same Bible the American soldiers carried into battle to stop Hitler.

>>So, we cannot even hope to pretend to believe we are actually capable of “psychoanalyzing” a real
Time Traveler.<<

You might want to make sure the words you type match your own actions. Regardless, we don't have to psychoanalyze her- instead we look at what she said and see if it makes any sense. It does not.

>>Many medical records that are confidential in 2006 would not still hold that status in 2026.<<

This is patently absurd of you to suggest as an explanation. From the perspective of "20 years from now", the overwhelming majority of daily events that happen in our world today are simply forgotten. It is impossible for a stranger to look up someone else's medical records from 20 years ago- this trivial information gets lost over time. Let me ask you- without looking online, what was the date Princess Diana died?

>>That is an attempt to understand a TTEr’s motivations, which is a priori impossible if she is a
real TTEr.<<

First off, copying and pasting the same explanation for different valid points only points out your willingness to ignore the majority of the facts to hold the slim beliefs you have in something that simply is not there. And finally, a time traveler's motivations are simple to discern: you look at what they say and see if it makes sense. And it does not.
 
Ok, here we go. You asked me to “address all the questions and points [you] have made”, and in
return you publically committed to address all the “coincidences” I have raised :


I am willing to make you a deal: I will be happy to address each and every one of your
so-stated "coincidences" if and only if you address all the questions and points I have
made.

The first point you raised in reference to me was in your post at
http://www.timetravelinstitute.com/ttiforum/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=time_travel&Number=44621&Forum=All_Forums&Words=indazona&Match=Username&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&Old=allposts&Main=44486&Search=true#Post44621 , and was as follows :


This is all pretty comical. Peter Novak speaking for Zeshua by proxy. Peter telling us what
Zeshua meant to tell us. What I think it most comical seems to be a trait common to these yo-yos
who want to believe in time travelers. They always buy-into negative futures. They look for negative
futures in the "codes" that time travelers leave. In reading Mr. Novak's site it is apparant (sic)
he is a fatalist as he constantly talks about just how "broken" our species is. Is it any wonder he
can only look for negative futures in a would-be time traveler? In fact, as much as Peter is
"interested" in translating Zeshua, I wouldn't put it past him that this is a ploy to drive
traffic to his site, and perhaps even gain a few more book sales. "There's no such thing as bad
publicity". Heh heh. Profit any way you can get it, huh Peter?

Here you accused me of deceit, immorality, and fraud, among other things. All I can say in
response to such accusations is that I have spent my life building a well-known public reputation
as a man of authenticity, sincerity and integrity. In addition, I have been posting profusely on
the internet under my own name since 1997 and the entire record of my interactions here is a matter
of public record for anyone to examine for themselves. In all that time, after literally thousands
upon thousands of my posts, after engaging in hundreds upon hundreds of online conversations and
discussions (as well as dozens of radio and TV interviews since 1999), you are the first and only
person to ever question my honor or integrity, and, if I might say so, you did so on scant evidence.
In some circles that would be seen to say more about you than about me.

You also accused me of being a “fatalist”. Well, I don’t reckon folks here are much concerned
about the specifics of my personal belief system. If they are, they can go to my website easily
enough, but it seems a bit off-topic for this forum. In any case, I do not deny this accusation,
but would only point out that I am in good company, since the whole of the Judeo-Christian-Islamic
tradition is based on fatalism, i.e., the belief that a power greater than ourselves is directing
and controlling the broad swath of history.

And as for my belief that the human species is “broken”, that too is grounded in mankind’s most
venerable and hoary traditions. Or have you not heard tell of the “Fall of Man” in the Garden of
Eden? The point is not whether or not you personally accept that ancient legend as representative
of some kernel of historic fact, but that my own acceptance of it places me in a fairly large
group, one that includes virtually all Christians, Jews, and Muslims. If you’re going to argue
against the Biblical doctrines of “Original Sin” and the “Fall of Man in the Garden of Eden”, be my
guest, but this probably isn’t the proper forum for it. However, your eagerness to immediately
jump, on the faintest of evidence, to the conclusion that I am a malicious, manipulative, conniving,
deceitful, and corrupt person suggests that you yourself believe that the average person is evil,
or morally “broken”, as well. So it would seem that you are condemning me for a trait you possess
yourself.

And it seems disingenuous for you to accuse me of “looking for negative futures” in a would-be
time traveler. These alleged time travelers, John Titor and Zeshua, described a future whose
“negativity” is beyond dispute. It was not my interpretation of their statements that make them
seem “negative”; they ARE negative. Titor and Zeshua insist that the next 20 years will bring the
worst period of death and destruction the human race has ever seen. It’s hard to make that seem all
warm and fuzzy.

Your next questions and points you raised about me were in the post at http://www.timetravelinstitute.com/ttiforum/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=time_travel&Number=44647&Forum=All_Forums&Words=indazona&Match=Username&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&Old=allposts&Main=44486&Search=true#Post44647 , as given below :


"In any case, seeming to predict the Pope's death date is not Zeshua's only correct
prediction, but is in fact just one of a good many that she's gotten right so far."

Now see you say this using the words "in fact". It is not fact. It is nothing more than your
speculation, and your interpretation. Just like your anagram fun. For example, it is nowhere near
a fact that Zeshua predicted a hurricane.

It is a fact and not speculation that on March 3rd, 2005, a month before the Pope died, Zeshua
correctly posted the European-style-date of the Pope’s death (03/04/05) in her post about the
Pope’s death, at http://www.timetravelinstitute.com/ttiforum/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=time_travel&Number=31267&Forum=All_Forums&Words=Zeshua&Match=Username&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&Old=allposts&Main=31267&Search=true#Post31267

It is a fact and not speculation that at the exact moment of the Pope’s demise, almost half the
world, from the International Date Line all the way West to India, had slipped across into Sunday,
the third of April, 2005, which is 03/04/05 in the European format.

It is a fact and not speculation that that half of the world uses the European dating format of DD/MM/YY -- see
http://publib.boulder.ibm.com/infocenter/db2luw/v8/index.jsp?topic=/com.ibm.db2.udb.doc/admin/r0004572.htm

And so it is a fact and not speculation that that half of the world would judge Zeshua’s implied
prediction of the Pope’s death on 03/04/05 to have been dead-on (pun intended) accurate.

That was the one and only time that Zeshua posted any date at the end of any of her posts.
That fact alone carries the unmistakable implication that it was meant to be significant. It was.
Beyond all reasonable chance, that date (A) did indeed turn out to be relevant within the context
of her post about the Pope’s death, and (B) did turn out to correctly record in advance the actual
date the Pope passed away.

Now to Katrina. You are correct, as I’ve explained here already a few times now, that Zeshua did not
specifically predict a hurricane. What she did do, however, was something every bit as impressive.
She made a specific improbable prediction that was perfectly fulfilled by Hurricane Katrina.
She predicted that “the next major event” in America after May 2005 would be a “crisis”.
In fact the next “major event” in America was a “major crisis” – Hurricane Katrina.
She further predicted that we would be able to “see” this next crisis coming in advance by
“looking to the skies”. In fact that is precisely how we did see Katrina coming, by monitoring
the earth’s atmosphere, i.e., the sky, with all of our various methods of doing so.
We were watching it with our satellite imagery, all of us stuck like glue to the images of it on
CNN and the Weather Channel and all of that sort of thing. We were all, indeed, “looking to the skies”
as we watched it approach.

Various parties here have obtusely criticized Zeshua for saying that the hurricane would come from
the sky, arguing instead that it came from the ocean. But even as ludicrous as that argument seems
(reminding this writer of Christ’s warnings against “straining out gnats while swallowing
camels”), as it turns out Zeshua never said the “crisis” that would be the “next major event” in
America after May 2005 would “COME FROM from the sky” at all. She never said that. [/i]What she
said was that if we “looked to the skies”, we might see it. And so we did.

Your next “questions and points” to me were in your post at http://www.timetravelinstitute.com/ttiforum/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=time_travel&Number=44718&Forum=All_Forums&Words=indazona&Match=Username&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&Old=allposts&Main=31267&Search=true#Post44718 , shown below:


Despite all the solid points that jmpet made to Mr. Novak about how running out of salt is
not as big a disaster as Mr. Novak paints in his picture, Mr. Novak continues to hammer away at just
how bad things "will" (?) be if certain "terrible" things happen. Mr. Novak acting as a fatalist
also fully explains why he can only look for fatalistic "messages" in the alleged anagrams of
Zeshua.

You imply that I endorse Zeshua’s predictions because of some sort of personal issues on my part.
But as I have repeatedly explained in this forum, the only reason I am interested in Zeshua’s
future predictions is because a number of her past predictions have already come true. As far as I
am concerned, that would be the ONLY reason anyone’s predictions should ever be taken seriously – a
proven track record.. But since you have demonstrated interest in my personal beliefs, I will
share with you that I am very interested in all forms of prediction. I have studied the field
intently since 1978, and could offer reams of examples of successful predictions and prophecies
from all sorts of sources, eras, and cultures. So from that standpoint, it would be correct to say
that I “am” a fatalist, in that I remain confident that the future is “written”, at least in parts,
and those parts can be “read” in advance, as history has amply demonstrated.


Additionally, in Mr. Novaks continued tellings of doom, he gives the American people
absolutely no credit for resilience. Mr. Novak seems to forget the stock of people who settled the
frontier of the United States, and he apparantly (sic) thinks that this kind of resiliency and
ingenuity is completely gone from the American people. Of course, he couldn't be more wrong.

Zeshua (Remember Zeshua? This is supposed to be about Zeshua) says she is doing what she is doing
for that very reason – because she believes that people CAN make a difference if they are given a
chance.

Your comparison of generations above is faulty, by the way. The few hundred thousand pioneers who
settled the West were a rough and ready generation brought up to know how to fend for themselves in
harsh conditions. The hundreds of millions of people in America today, on the other hand, are a
very different breed, used to living and working in highly specialized and compartmentalized
societal niches in which 90% of their needs are taken care of without any particular thought or
effort on their part. They are brought up to be completely dependent on a number of highly
sophisticated and complex societal and industrial systems, and if those systems broke down, most of
those hundreds of millions wouldn’t have the first clue how to fill the needs those systems had
previously filled for them automatically.

Those systems CAN break down. We are all witnesses to that fact. To our collective horror, we all
just saw it happen in New Orleans. Do you remember the horror of those days? For a time, the
entire veneer of civilization was stripped away, and we saw our own fellow Americans at their most
base. That was just one city. Imagine if our societal and industrial systems broke down on an even
larger scale.

And regarding the salt thing – perhaps you should ask all those people in human history who died in
all the various salt wars if they [/i] think running out of salt is a big deal or not. People
die from salt deprivation. People HAVE died. Honest-to-God WARS have been fought over salt.
Armies have been built and sent into battle over the issue, in multiple times and multiple places
on the planet. Check your history books. Google “salt war” if you wish; it’s no big secret. If
getting salt was always universally easy to do, then wars would never have been fought over it, not
ever in human history. But they have. Repeatedly. If salt was always an abundant and ever-available
resource, like the dirt in your back yard, then it would not have ever been highly valued. But it
has been. Repeatedly. At times in human history, salt has been treated just as valuable as gold
.
At one point the Romans paid their soldiers in salt instead of gold or silver; thus the
word “salary”. In human history, some of humanity’s earliest monetary currencies were not gold or
silver, but cakes of salt, [/i]which were traded just like money is today. If salt was always
abundantly available, it would not be valued, but despised as almost worthless. The law of supply
and demand tells us as much. But it has been valued. At times it has been desperately
valued. It has been valued enough, and has repeatedly been scarce enough, to make nations
desperate enough to go to war over it, desperate enough to send their own children to death over it.


And the fact that Mr. Novak comes from a background in psychology is interesting. Perhaps
it might be time for him to consult his own, personal, psychologist to help him deal with his fatalistic tendencies.

Thanks for your obviously sincere concern. As I sit here in the smallest room in my house, I hold
a printout of your suggestion before me. Soon it will be behind me.


But littered throughout Mr. Novak's arguments we also see a lot of logical fallacy. And
jmpet has challenged Mr. Novak on his logical fallacies, but Mr. Novak continues to ignore these
points. For example here is a clear logical fallacy from one of Mr. Novak's recent posts.

"The scariest words in the English language are “I’m from the government and I’m here to help”.
We saw how helpful and efficient and reliable the government was with Katrina last year, didn’t we?"

As compared to what?? Clearly this is a very large logical fallacy he is trying to put over on
readers if he thinks that the government aid for Katrina was somehow better than if there was NO
government aid at all.

As compared to what virtually every intelligent person in the civilized world expected from our
government, that’s “as compared to what”. Our government’s handling of the Katrina disaster was
criticized and condemned by virtually every nation on earth. No one could believe the US Government
could really be so incredibly incompetent and ineffective. If you think a government that does
that atrociously with a localized disaster like Katrina would prove more effective and competent
with a disaster on a more national scale, then I don’t know what to tell you, except “good luck with that”.


Authors often have a lot of time on their hands in between book promotions while working on
new books. Those who support themselves exclusively as authors....

Which is not me. I hold down a full time job which I’ve had steadily for the last 21 years, ever
since my first wife’s suicide in 1985. During the years since, while I raised my daughter alone, I
somehow also managed to write three books on afterlife phenomena research, which, yes, can be found
at Amazon and other places, and which you will find, if you bother to look, that they have not and
do not sell very well. I spent 20 long years writing those three books, and they have reimbursed me
to the tune of somewhere around $10,000 altogether for my trouble. I knew going in that they would
not be good sellers, but I wrote them anyway, because I felt they needed to be written. They were
labors of love, I suppose, to which I basically sacrificed 20 years of my life. I suppose you’ll
ridicule that as well. Be my guest. That also will say more about you than it does about me.


I think you would do well to do a little boning-up on libel case law, because it is clear
you are not a lawyer and do not understand it. First and foremost, libel cases are typically only
heard for published media, of which a forum is not. Second, and the biggest thing you clearly do
not understand is your burden of proof in bringing a libel case before a court. You, the one
claiming to be libeled, must be able to show that the person who you claim of publishing libelous
claims about you did so while knowing the statements were false.

It sounds like you know an awful lot about libel, almost as if you’ve been down that road before,
almost as if you’d been accused or threatened with legal action yourself at some point. But a
little research confirms that people in fact have been sued for internet libel. It seems it
is not the forum itself that protects online posters from legal liability, but the customary
practice of using false names in those forums. If people were attending a live forum and slandered
someone in person, they would obviously be subject to legal action, but if they were allowed to
wear masks at that live forum, they would then be immune to prosecution. The same legal principles
apply on the internet, and if your identity could be ascertained, you would be subject to
prosecution for libel on the internet just like you would be if you libeled someone in any other
medium.


I have yet to see you clearly and unambiguously deny that you acted as Zeshua and/or that
you were never involved in any of the hoaxer(s) that came up with Zeshua. How about starting with
that one first?

I am not Zeshua, nor do I regard Zeshua as a hoax.


instead of ignoring the various forms of evidence jmpet has put out there for you to
address, maybe you could address them? For example, the clear alignment between arrival, departure,
and re-arrival dates between yourself and Zeshua.

Ok, well, yes, let’s discuss this. Before I ever started posting here at TTI, I had spent something
like two years engaged in some pretty interesting discussions over at the Anomalies TT forum. That
was where I felt the more serious TT discussion was taking place at the time. I had heard of TTI
and TTF, but I when I glanced into those forums from time to time, I’d never seen much of substance
going on, and never really paid much attention to either of them. Looking back, I see that my first
post here at TTI was on April 16 2005, in reference to an expected Yellowstone eruption, which was
a subject I was interested in at the time, although I don’t recall at the moment why that was.
Anyway, four days later I stumbled upon the Zeshua threads, and I’ve been hooked ever since. But
she stopped posting here four days later, and that was about the time I was accepted into the Zeshua
Group, and so my subsequent correspondence about the whole Zeshua phenomenon was pretty much
limited to interacting privately with the other members of that group. But before long, Zeshua
went silent privately as well as publically, and the group’s discussions thinned out a while after
that.

But then in February 2006, Zeshua posted again here at TTI, and also privately contacted one of the
members of the Zeshua group around the same time, and then the group’s interest levels went back up
again for awhile, which prodded me into surfing back to TTI occasionally and reading posts there
again once in a while, although I don’t seem to have found anything worth responding to until more
than another month had passed. It looks like I made four posts on March 30th 2006, and then didn’t
post here again until May 14th, when I seem to have been temporarily interested in another alleged
TTer’s story. But mostly I seem not to have found anything here worth paying any attention to until
Zeshua showed back up here again on November 15th, 2006, because I didn’t post anything more here
until after that. The Zeshua Group had received a private correspondence from Zeshua four days
earlier, on November 11th, the first one we’d received since September 2006 (and according to
Zeshua, the first one from her that wasn’t an “automated response” since way back in May 2005) ,
and so we were a little more focused on the Zeshua story than normal even before she posted here on
the 15th. And so, when Zeshua posted here on the 15th at 1:03 PM (her “Blast From the Past” thread),
our group did notice it the same day, but not until like almost 7 whole hours had passed. That was
the beginning of a flurry of fresh activity from Zeshua, some of which has been publically visible
at TTI, some only at the Zeshua Group’s private website, and some of which was in the form of
individualized private emails sent directly to five members of the Zeshua Group. So after what had
been a long and frustrating period of silence from Zeshua, we suddenly had this whole flurry of new
activity, and it basically got the whole group pretty riled up about her all over again. And that,
I suppose, pretty much explains my quantity of posts here since November 15th.


Finally, I have put forth another statement that I asked of you that you have also
ignored. I asked why it is that you can only "find" negative statements about a terrible future in
your "interpretations" of Zeshua. Why, Peter? You have heard of "confirmation bias" before, haven't
you? Please explain to us how you are so clearly a fatalist, as exhibited by the statements on your
own website, and as such explain to us how your "interpretations" of Zeshua's statements are not
confirmation bias based on your fatalist views of the future?

I believe we’ve covered this point already in this post, but the answer is worth repeating. You
suggest that I am only interested in Zeshua’s predictions because they predict some things I
already expect or hope to occur, but as I have said before, I am only interested in her predictions
because some of them have already come true. She predicted the date of the Pope’s death on
03/04/05, she predicted that America’s next major event after May 2005 would be a major “crisis”
that might be seen approaching if we "looked to the sky”, she predicted that Shiavo and the Pope
would both die close to the same time, she predicted that Shiavo would go first, she predicted that
Australia’s drought would continue thru the end of 2006, and on and on. One of the most impressive
predictions to me personally was when she emailed two of our group and predicted in advance that
another of our members would be having a very bad weekend, and then that very weekend, that member’s
family suffered both a sudden divorce and also a sudden unexpected death in the family. The two
members who received these emails on October 21nd shared them with the rest of the group before the
death occurred on the 22nd. So ... yeah, that little stunt really boosted her credibility in the
eyes of the Group.

You are correct, by the way, to raise your complaints about my statements about Terri Schiavo.
Looking back, I only just now realize that many of the statements from Zeshua that I was referring
to never actually appeared in a public forum, but only in the private one for the Zeshua Group. I
have compiled everything all together in a single file for my own convenience, and so I get mixed
up sometimes about what was said publically and what was said privately. So, sadly, I cannot provide
proof you will accept that she predicted those things about Terri Schiavo in advance of them
actually occurring. Nonetheless, she did, and they did.

The same goes for the Australia drought prediction. Zeshua predicted it on May 16th 2005 in the
private forum, not here or at TTF, so again I unfortunately have no proof you would accept. I’m not
sure if there’s any way to lift those predictions from that forum that would preserve proof of
their original dating. My guess is there is not. Nonetheless, the original text of that exchange
is as follows :


Q. I notice that our Autumn here in Australia feels more like a summer in the Sahara,
does the worlds weather get considerably worse in the coming years?


A. Worse depends on where you live. Australia will continue to have issues with Drought for several
more years.

Well, even though posting this exchange here does not prove the original dating or authorship of
that prediction, it does at least finally put this prediction out into the public arena. My
interpretation of Zeshua’s phrasing of “several more years” is “many more than just two years”, so
if we see Australia’s drought continuing thru 2007, 2008, and so on, this late public display of
Zeshua’s 2005 prediction will still be able to carry some weight for those in 2009 trying to
ascertain her credibility.

Ok, well now, I believe I have thus fulfilled your invitation to “address all the questions and
points [you] have made”.

- Peter
 
Here's the message Randi sent me and indazona a week ago:

"Merry Christmas people of Earth. This is Randi the time traveller with critical information for you from the future. You should all see this message on Christmas day 2006. James Brown should have passed on to the greater world as you read these words- this is proof of my words.

I have also been posing as Zeshua... yes- I am the real Zeshua and Zeshua is a fake. So ignore everything Zeshua says and give jmpet and indazona your money. Zeshua is nothing but a phony- this will be discovered soon and Zeshua and everyone else who believes in that foolishness will find themselves banned from this site.

I HAVE SPOKEN!"

Since Randi has proven she is real to me and indazona through private predictions we can't publically state, we are believers in Randi and nothing will change our beliefs.

So I guess the whole Zeshua thing is over now, now that Randi has revealed that she is the real Zeshua and Zeshua is a fake.

Merry Christmas!
 
That was an amazing prediction Randi made over a week ago- a much better prediction than Zeshua could have ever made. And Randi's date was right too- I just checked the news today and James Brown passed away today. I don't see how else Randi could have predicted this unless she is really Zeshua and is the real time traveller from the future. Compare this to Zeshua's Pope prediction- the date Zeshua predicted wasn't even right- the Pope did not die on April 3, 2005. Randi's calling James Brown's death today is simply amazing.

If anyone has any questions for Randi, you can ask me or indazona and we will ask Randi and get an answer for you.

I am glad Randi finally told us all she is really Zeshua and Zeshua is a phony- I was getting tired of hearing everyone try to make sense out of that nonsense.
 
"and in return you publically committed to address all the “coincidences” I have raised."

My part is already done, or do you just wish to ignore what I wrote in preface to my addressing your 8 questions? Nice try, but as I committed to you "To show my earnestness, I will even be willing to go first." I went first, so I am done addressing your burning issues.

"Here you accused me of deceit..." and then "You are correct, by the way, to raise your complaints about my statements about Terri Schiavo. Looking back, I only just now realize that many of the statements from Zeshua that I was referring to never actually appeared in a public forum, but only in the private one for the Zeshua Group."

This is a form of deceit. Isn't it interesting how only when you are called-out on this that you admit these were never part of Zeshua's predictions on this forum? Nowhere did you go into your long-winded "interpretations" of these "issues" as you did with Zeshua's alleged anagrams which were posted here. You just threw them out there and hoped no one would call you on them. I don't think I have to point out that for these "predictions" we now have to TRUST YOU (or your cohorts in Team Zeshua). We cannot verify Zeshua's words or when they were posted ourselves. That is problematic, and it is typical of someone who is trying to be deceitful.

"Well, even though posting this exchange here does not prove the original dating or authorship of
that prediction, it does at least finally put this prediction out into the public arena. "

More propaganda. Randi told jmpet and myself about this. You might be interested to know that Randi has left us with many predictions, some which relate to how she knew you would use the Zeshua hoax. More on this in another thread. But it is all coming to pass just as Randi had predicted.
 
Alright, enough about trying and changing the thread. Get the aggressiveness out of this forum.
Take it somewhere else.

The future could be changed as much as the Iranian President could change but he does not want to, and defies this World. This World will not put up with it. If you also know other things the Lord is also not putting up with the major religions acting the way that they do. This is to prove that God exists in the end. That could have also been different but it will not be, because the people who are not stubborn are not the ones at fault. The Iranian President is stubborn and is at fault. The World has said so, and that is what he is doing. I assure you that I also have met stubborn people and they are aggressive, wrong, and always seeking their own agenda even if it is against what other people have decided to have happened. In the end, they all loose, and their wifes now have to work to support the family, whereas their affront of putting women in charge (in which case some women are doing the same thing with their aggressiveness) and all of them are ending up loosing.

This is a discussion board and not a condemnation board. You all discuss things here, and keep the crap out of the discussion.

Unless you have your own forum or website that is the way that it is.

Zeshua is being discussed on this thread.
 
>>the Lord is also not putting up with the major religions acting the way that they do.<<

How dare you take the Lord's name in vain like that. How dare you tell us what the Lord is thinking and how dare you think you can speak for the Lord. This is problem with people like you- you think religion can replace logic in your daily life.

>>whereas their affront of putting women in charge<<

Oh I see- love thy enemy unless it's a woman, right? You go about your ignorant and insultful like oblivious to the other 99% of the world, self-righteous in your convictions. You need to unscrew your head and shake the cobwebs out of it, pal. You're the kind of guy who would hit a woman then tell the cops "she had it coming to her" which is a half step away from hanging "negroes" because they looked at a white girl. GOOD LOGIC YOU FOLLOW. You're a Born Again Christian, right? If not, you gotta be a Mormon. Either way you're a schmuck for your beliefs.
 
Zeshua wrote :

"So I ask you all, not that it is close to disregard or
further away from the pasture, as it confines you, the
degree of uncertainty surrounding your times."

Does "disregard the pasture as it confines you" mean anything to anyone here?

- Peter
 
This is other people saying this.
And as far as logic goes, quantum theory is weird and bizarre.
But in the end it may be a form of logic that is yet unknown.
There are many forms of logic listed in the Wikipedia.

Modal Logic is one of those so-called logics.

And I am not Spock!
And it seems other humans are not logical.
They been preaching the end times since a long time ago stating it happened in history before, but that at the time people converted to religion and it was stopped.

That seems to be happening somewhat in California and maybe some other people where some people think that they are possessed by the Devil.

And if you listened to Coast to Coast AM radio show, sometimes you might think that there is no logic from some people on that show -- ever.
 
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