The Other John

And to tell you the truth Twighlite after you admitted you like to lie and deceive on the internet and even think it is fun I kind of lost respect for you.
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Lol. Sure I've been involved in hoaxes, etc. Mainly because I find it incredible that so many people are so gullible. One does not even have to keep a 'straight poker face', as they say, half the time.

There was a very good reason for my first hoax. I was sick and tired of the clique mentality of the 'believers'........and their ' OMG...are you seriously QUESTIONING if that's a ( substitute ghost, UFO, time traveller ) ' responses and mentality. Yes it IS fun exposing how some have such an open mind that their brain has fallen out. In creating a story that I knew to be fake, I could then be certain that a lot of people 'believe' for no good reason other than that they will believe anything.

Fact is....if everyone was like me and questioned absolutely everything right down to the last detail, the word 'hoax' would leave the dictionary. Mind you, so would half the religions and a load of other hocus pocus.

Anyone who hands anyone else a blank cheque labelled 'Trust'.....on the basis of absolutely no evidence whatever......is quite simply foolish.
 
The difference between you and I is I have never lied about anything online concerning John.
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Wow! Not too many caveats there, eh? So using a bit of predicate logic then, it would be safe to assume that perhaps you lied about things concerning John when you were offline? Or perhaps you have lied about things online, but not concerning John directly (perhaps things concerning the story, but not John himself).

Pamela, clearly more people than myself and Twilight have pointed out the odd, almost contradictory aspects of your behavior in propping the story up. It is extremely similar to another story I follow and am amazed by the reaction of the principles: Anthropogenic Global Warming. Slowly but surely the true story is coming out to show not only how flimsy the data was that these UN crooks based their reports/predictions upon, but it is even coming to light that they clearly acted with malice towards anyone even attempting to falsify their AGW theory. There really are a LOT of parallels to the John Titor story. Because even though the core story is clearly not Popper-falsifiable (and thus could NOT pass muster as science in any way), you would always pop-in to try and prop the story up and falsify the falsifiers...

And your sole tool for doing it? (One that was built-into the whole Titor story).... That secret song. You have gotten 10 years out of it. The AGW Alarmists have you beat, for now. But with the AGW Alarmists set to go down in the next 1-2 years, if you keep hanging on you may get the new record for attempts to falsify the falsifiers of bad science! :D

RMT
 
I would argue that Piltdown Man is probably one of the best examples of a hoax....that was clearly designed to mock the overly eager efforts of the scientific community to support a specific theory. Hoaxes DO have their place.....if for no other reason than that they expose the prejudices, sycophancy, and clique-ism within any community.

Piltdown Man was believed in for 40 years.....despite several scientists warning that it could be a hoax. But those who warned of a hoax were dismissed by a science establishment eager to embrace this amazing new 'discovery' and get whatever reward was there for working on it. And THAT is the case with so many hoaxes.....people believe because there is something personal in it for them.

In my opinion a good hoax now and then is an essential part of science. It wakes people up...rattles the science community....and exposes a lot of pre-conceived notions.

I value the entire Titor hoax more in terms of what it shows about PEOPLE.....than what it shows about time travel.
 
Pamela, clearly more people than myself and Twilight have pointed out the odd, almost contradictory aspects of your behavior in propping the story up.
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It's the feigned ambiguity over the 'truth'......whilst at the same time completely dimissing out of hand any evidence that proves Titor a hoax. The repeated claim of wanting to know the 'truth'.....then the total ignoring of the truth on the many ocassions it has been provided. Anyone who dismisses Titor is accused of not believing in time travel, as if the entirety of time travel was dependant on Titor.

The ONLY conclusion one can come to is that here we either have a serious case of cognitive dissonance.....or a paid up lifetime member of Group Titor. I would judge the latter.

Let's face it.....Titor needed someone to keep the story alive after his 'disappearance'. The longer Titor stayed online, the more he ran the risk of getting caught out. How convenient, then, to have arranged his own personal fan club before his departure !

In the space of just a few short weeks, Pamela goes from ( allegedly ) never having heard of Titor.....to actively promoting him and even acting as a go-between for emails and pics. I mean come off it.........taking an interest in a story is one thing, but there is something HIGHLY suspicious about someone who is actively handing out the storyteller's campaign leaflets on the basis of no more evidence ( i.e none ) than the rest of us had.

The whole Titor/Pamela saga seems to me to have been built into the story right from the start. Given all the effort Titor had himself put into creating a story, the last thing he wanted was for it to all just fizzle out. Clearly, he had to find himself a disciple to spread the gospel of time travel far and wide after his ascension back into heaven.

It just seems too coincidental that said disciple was right there on hand.
 
It doesnt matter how i got the info. I saw it on computer that both sites were registered by the same person, while I was at work
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That you saw the information on a computer doesn't explain why we should take it as a fact. If I sent you an email stating that Williams is Haber it would be something that you saw on your computer. It doesn't mean, however, that the assertion is true.

Gaining registrant information for GoDaddy sites requires that the registrant disclosed the information or the information was acquired illegally. Registration on GoDaddy is confidential.

I'm not saying that you are wrong. I don't know. But I am saying that if the actual registrant didn't disclose the information then, if true, the information was originally obtained by illegal means.

And in the end, who really cares about who John Titor "really" is? It's enough that the vast majority of people who are aware of the meme believe, correctly I might add, that the Titor Saga is fiction. The name of the actual author is somewhat irrelevent, don't you think? Who actually cares after ten years?
 
Rainman, no new and interesting posts about time travel without the mention of john titor yet? You better get busy thinking of some if you are going to be setting up a section on teaching about time travel.
goodluck and best of luck to you Rainman.
 
Actually there are several logical conclusions....its just that you could only think of two.. and that reason is...you don't have all the facts. /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif But enough about me start some new topics here Twighlite. Make this a place people want to come to... not leave.
 
Pam, I honestly want to know...what is it about this story that has kept you going for so many years now? I honestly don't know what to think. some days I read over some of these old posts on here and think to myself that you are a very intelligent individual, then other times when I read your posts I wonder how a Person could be so blind. As I stated before, I can understand in the beginning how you may have been fooled, I'm sure a lot of people were. I myself was very intrigued with the whole story, although I always remained very skeptical and took a wait and see approach. I am sure that if over the years, this guys predictions would have came true, I would have had to start wondering and questioning my own beliefs, but when nothing to this date has been right; then it just verifies my original opinion that it was all smoke and mirrors. By the way, that whole time divergence thing is a crock of Sh%*, you gotta get something right, otherwise why even bother.

So my question to you is why? you keep telling everybody that don't know the whole story, or that we don't have the all the information you have. Well if that's the case don't you think it's time after ten years to let us know the whole story or the whole truth. I mean, everybody here is interested, and if you have some info you've been keeping to show this is more than a ten year joke then it could validate you. If nothing else it would get people off of your back.

I've came to some conclusions on the matter given everything I've read over the years, and this recent two John thing:

1. You really are part of this financial scheme hired to keep the story active and keep interest alive, but if this is the case then they need to fire you because the only people still interested are a few hundred, and unless they pay you $1.00 per hour they are loosing money.

2. You just crave the attention, whether it be positive or negative you just want somebody to pay attention to you like the kid in school who is always waiving their hand frantically in class for the teacher to call on them. If that's the case then I suppose you've done a pretty good job, hell you've gotten ten years out of it so far.

3. You really are that gullible and naive. If this is the case then I need your phone number because I have some absolutely beautiful ocean front property in Arizona I'll sell to just you at a dirt cheap price.

I personally feel it is option two. That is not to say you are a bad person. It just says you have something missing in your life, there is a hole you are attempting to fill. Do your self a favor. find a hobby, read more books, find yourself spiritually or go to the gym and get healthy. It will make you feel better.
 
Actually there are several logical conclusions....its just that you could only think of two.. and that reason is...you don't have all the facts.
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Lol. No, I can assure you that I have not missed a single conclusion.......just haven't necessarily mentioned them all.

And of course, as Rainman says, this 'secret facts' nonsense is all just the usual hoax ploy. Indeed, one can almost guarantee that if 'secret facts' exist then it's a dead certainty that it's all a hoax. It's a classic hoaxer ruse.......to try and make people think that they cannot form a considered opinion because they 'dont have all the facts'. Frankly....in using that expression you have simply served to 100% confirm to me that Titor is a hoax.

And in any case.....nobody needs 'all the facts' in order to be absolutely certain that Titor CANNOT have been a time traveller because his his alleged time machine is a scientific impossibility. Nobody needs to wait upon information from you to know that.

Thus your secret facts are totally, utterly, irrelevant.
 
Pam, I honestly want to know...what is it about this story that has kept you going for so many years now? I honestly don't know what to think. some days I read over some of these old posts on here and think to myself that you are a very intelligent individual, then other times when I read your posts I wonder how a Person could be so blind.
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Frankly...when someone behaves in such a contradictory manner it starts to become obvious after a while that they are putting on a show.

The question for me is no longer whether it is all a show, but just exactly who is running the show.

I think the reality is that Pamela is a little miffed that it's no longer her.

Everyone has tended to assume that there was an original 'Group Titor'.....and that it has remained unchanged for ages. My suspicion is that for most of the past 10 years, the Titor Show has been run by ' Group Titor Two '.....who basically saw the usefulness of the story, and have hijacked it for their own purposes.

THAT is the explanation for the 'two Titors'. ( wasn't that blindingly obvious - Pamela ? ). With the aid of Titor Two, they can now remould the story and add new elements. They don't care about Pamela's secret song......they can invent their own.

Or, to put it more bluntly.....the original hoaxers are being out-hoaxed at their own game.
 
John Titor said "Sometimes I imagine what it would be like to approach the Wright Brothers in 1910, before their first flight" Well, if that were true on his time line it would alter many events. For example, it would slow down the development of critical technology.

On our timeline, the first flight was in 1903. By 1910 there were many people building aeroplanes.

I understand that with two John Titors you can explain how one has the civil war starting in 2004, while the other has our civil war starting in 2005. That makes sense since they come from different timelines. It appear our timeline is quite different.
 
It appear our timeline is quite different.
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Let's face it.....just about the only way that any 'time traveller' on these forums can prove they are genuine is by making predictions that come true.

A bunch of pictures, and even 'video footage of departure' prove nothing. All of that can be faked, and there's some damned good fake videos out there. So really - the ONLY viable test short of landing on the Whitehouse lawn and taking Obama for a spin to the 24th century is to accurately tell us future events.

It therefore becomes totally unacceptable, farcical even, for any 'time traveller' to try to hide behind 'divergent timelines' and all that BS. It's a monumental cop-out......a ready made excuse for hoaxers who clearly don't have a any more clue about the future than the rest of us.

Titor not only did not make a single prediction that came true......but made several that were WAY off the mark. I'm still waiting for this 'civil war' that was supposed to start in 2004. And Titor totally failed to predict 911, told us Y2K would be a 'disaster' when it wasn't.....and so on.

How can a person be SO wrong, yet there are mugs out there who still believe Titor was a time traveller.
 
Titor not only did not make a single prediction that came true......but made several that were WAY off the mark. I'm still waiting for this 'civil war' that was supposed to start in 2004. And Titor totally failed to predict 911, told us Y2K would be a 'disaster' when it wasn't.....and so on.

How can a person be SO wrong, yet there are mugs out there who still believe Titor was a time traveller.
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Here is the real problem that comes from relying on "divergence of timelines" as a means to cover your tracks:

1) Titor claimed in his own story that our timeline had a "less than 2% divergence" from the future timeline he came from. He even spun the yarn that the time machine itself actually used this empircal measure of divergence in its control scheme to minimize the divergence of any timeline he landed upon (hogwash).
2) Fast forward from the date he spewed all this hogwash, past all of the dates of his predictions, and what you now see is a world where virtually NONE of Titor's predictions came true...and some of them quite massive (civil war that did NOT happen, plenty of Olympics that DID happen with the next set to take place next month).
3) With the VAST DIFFERENCES between what Titor SAID would happen and what actually happened, there is no way you can ever believe that Titor's machine successfully controlled divergence (which is still just a BS plot tactic) to less than 2%, much less the "0.002377 percent" value he used at one point (which I have pointed out is simply a use of standard sea-level air density number in slug/ft^3)!

Hence, the funniest aspect of all this nonsense is that Titor's own story (and lack of skills in the prediction department) falsified itself as a result of getting just about every prediction wrong!

Let that one sink-in for all you Titor sycophants: <font color="red"> Titor's own story and the resulting facts of our timeline from 2001 through 2010 falsify the whole Titor story! [/COLOR]

You can ignore this fact, but that does not stop it from staring you in the face and saying "WTF?"
RMT
 
the funny thing is, you are the only person on this site to ever build a time machine. the plane you made for fedex actually travels back and forth through time by a day!

:eek:
 
i have seen that the gravitational pull of a miniture blackhole is not thye enhanced portion of a spinning micro-black hole, but the direction of that spin, and the proximity to the event horizon of the mbh, leads to the advancement or retardation of time dialation either forward or reverse. concerning the epicenters equation to distance from the mbh to the subject, this is in the realm of electrical activity, ie it drops off to the square of the distance, the bigger the mbh, the klarger the event will be, however the flux loss is that the mbhole ages weather its going forward or reverse, it is ageing through all the time it moves. the constant becomes the mbh, the nergy lost is from the mbh. the bigger it is the further it can travel. the energy it consumes is eqivalent to the expected lifetime it was to have at creation. so speeding its rotation can allow the mbh to be "more easily handled", however the faster it spins the quicker it dies. the containment field must therefore feed off of the mbh, and then routethe event horizon back at the mbh at right angles to cause the spin to increase exponentially to afford travel.
ok i believe i have this right....
dave nj
 
Hence, the funniest aspect of all this nonsense is that Titor's own story (and lack of skills in the prediction department) falsified itself as a result of getting just about every prediction wrong!
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The trouble is that no amount of logic will persuade the 'true believers'. Primarily because their belief is not based upon logic and having thought it all out.....but on what they WANT to be true.

It reminds me of the countless arguments I used to have with creationists, back when I used to manage a political forum. One could point out to them that creation cannot be just 6000 years old......as that would mean we would not see any stars more than 6000 light years away, let alone the Andromeda galaxy 2 million light years away.

Of course, to the believer.....the answer is simple. God created the light 'already old'. I mean.....lol....how does one reason with such people !
 
Twilight,

My suspicion is that for most of the past 10 years, the Titor Show has been run by ' Group Titor Two '.....who basically saw the usefulness of the story, and have hijacked it for their own purposes.
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I've considered that possibility myself. But the facts strongly argue against that probability. Group Titor is lawyered up and have been lawyered up since 2003. They've copyrighted large parts of the story including the photos and diagrams originally posted on the Peanut Gallery and later on Anomalies.

Larry Haber is a real lawyer, not some Internet wannabe "lawyer". And he is a well known lawyer in the entertainment industry who sits on the board of directors of several entertainment industry foundations. He's been a top corporate lawyer for both Disney and Universal Studios. He's not going to get himself involved in a copyright infringement suit by allowing his client (Group Titor II) to have him fraudulently apply to the US Patent Office for copyrights to materials belonging to Group Titor I. Just not going to happen with this particular attorney.

I think that Eyesview Productions is probably on the right track, even though they woosed out on the issue of giving Larry Haber editorial rights after they filmed him in the cigar smoking room in Celebration while Larry, Brandon and Rick smoked their cigars. They're young, inexperienced and haven't developed the killer instinct for investigative videography as yet - especially when their target is the aforementioned entertainment industry attorney (they do want to make a living in that same industry). Larry, Brandon and Rick Haber were on screen. John Titor was probably in that video and I still don't believe that Brandon is Titor. He was just far too young. Some pretty harsh things have been said here recently about Pamela. I agree with the idea that she tends to be a bit too naive, expecially back in 2000-2001, but she is neither stupid nor ignorant. Far from it. A 12-13 year old child (that was Brandon's age while Titor was posting) would not have been able to pull it off with her no matter how intelligence he might have been. The Titor Saga was written by a mature adult. So there are two choices left on screen. And both of them generally resemble Mr. Fat Fingers in the cigar smoke laser photo. Cigars anyone?
 
I love cigars. They're good-

"John Titor" is nothing but a lie, a gimmick for a movie production. Pamela on here is also lying too. She isn't saying much about her 'past history'- Florida anyone? ROFL! (just don't take it too harsh, Pamela- I am just giving it as an example)

Its a very good way to analyze all the "intel" by many people posting, to gather the percentage of thoughts from each individual in an controlled environment.

One person says "I am from blah blah blah" -

I think maybe we all are nuts in someway somehow.

You really want Titor? - why don't you ask him? - bring up Titor again, for the popularity vote soars high with Titor fans everywhere. Gee.. why don't we let it die? - we don't need this anymore.. Titor was once a good puppet of time travelling claims. He was fascinating when I first read his stories- but the more I thought of it, the more I know the facts that its all a lie.

Maybe- let's say that I am a time traveller from the year.. hmm... 14000 B.C.

??? -- why not 14000 A.D ? - ....

14000 BC, nobody had the technology? - are we sure about that? - Are we absolutely SURE about that? - There are things found all over the planet.. weird things..small things, etc.. in rocks and all.

I was watching the History channel some time ago- about the future. I was like WOW..it's a real eye opener.. Did you know that in 10000 years, everything on Earth would be wiped clean- if noone were here to keep things 'in shape', that natural ingredients in the air would dissolve even the toughest metal on Earth during all that time and convert it back to dust... then Earth will repopulate itself with fertile lands once again. Its the famous word of 'corrosion'

So what really did happen back in 14000 BC? - hmm.. hmm... We don't know because all the evidence disappeared due to mother nature's acts. Pyramids in Eqypt are fascinating.. they found a way to keep those stones all alive for thousands of years- We have some records, but not enough to construct the time period for 14000 BC. (Back then it wasn't even called "BC" as they had another name for it?) hmmm... Science says 'this is what happened'.. and I say.. "Are we sure? absolutely SURE?"

It's all about LIFE- the way it is, and why everything's a LIE. Maybe its meant to be spelled as LIE instead of LIFE? lol-

The Hadron Collider - it's a joke. Mini blackholes created and dissipated- because its due to the lack of energy to supplement the looping of a black hole...or even a worm hole. Trying to find the Higgs Boson particle, to study it. There's no such thing- its all a lie. One thing, though, if they keep fussing around with the energy displacement fields, they're going to find themselves with missing parts of the Hadron Collider. Small things like screws, metal bulbs, just enough to cause it a problem. Those items are sent back into time and 'incidently' dropped into molten lava, an molten sea in which millions of years later, they are accidently found in coal, lava rocks and so on.

It may very well be proven that time travel is possible with a displacement field of that magnitude. Again, its harmful and they shouldn't keep doing that.. the more energy they build it up to, the more it will have effect on human lives as well. We're basically all 'electric' within us to control our bodies by having the brain to 'send' electric impulses to our fingers to move the muscles and so on. Having that much of an effect on those who are working at the Hadron collider, will end up with pre stage tumorous, mutating cancerous cells in their bodies caused by manipulation of such energy fields.

They say it's safe. I do not think so. There are energy fields that science hasn't discovered yet, not for another 44 years from now. We are so young in this field of technology- and yet we keep toying around with it. Sooner or later it's gonna go BANG! An accident on the news worldwide, with a silence of the population of untold billions.

To John Titor-

It was good while it lasted... but you're just a dude who loved playing mental games with Pamela and others. I know you're watching these forums, watching everything and everyone.. sitting back in that luxury chair of yours, laughing at everyone.. it's your EGO that's gotta go..

-Paradox.
 
Y2K was very real. The reason major things didn't happen on our Timeline is largely because people (including me) worked on fixing the problems. A friend and I formed a Y2K Task Force in the county where we lived and for two years we worked with local government, police force, emergency services, businesses, the community, etc. to resolve the problems. Our efforts drew Presidential appreciation and recognition. The related events were also televised. My point is that Y2K was a potential disaster that was diverted. It was NOT hype or a hoax.

There were problems from Y2K, but most people didn't hear about them. Example: The gas company in my area didn't get the whole problem fixed in time. For 6-9 months into 2000 many folks weren't sent a gas bill. It's a cold region, especially in winter, so folks used their heaters. When the gas company discovered the problem, people owed months of bills and hundreds or thousands of dollars. The gas company didn't shut off their gas even though they owed all that money. Instead, they let everyone pay over time. (That never would happen under other circumstances.) That's one example of what Y2K did when it rolled over to 2000.

Y2K would have been a major disaster if no one had addressed the problem...such as the scenarios JT claimed happened on his Timeline.

I believe JT may have changed the events of Y2K on our Timeline when he spoke to his grandfather. Perhaps something he/they said or did changed the events for us. Perhaps those events might be why we knew to avert a potential Y2K disaster. Maybe JT's grandfather eventually told some other computer engineers about the upcoming Y2K problem. Many scenarios are possible.

About 2 Johns...If there are two Johns, perhaps John I had no knowledge of John II when he was online visiting with Pamela and others.

I believe Time Travel is possible. People didn't think the world was round, but it is. People didn't think we could ever go to the moon, but we did. If you traveled back in time to 100 years ago and told people what the world is like today, no one would believe you.
 
Hi everafter girl, My brother teaches advanced computers in a local college and he said Y2K was all BS. He said if there was a problem it was fixed long ago. About John2. To me it does not seem like the person I talked to. Obviously I talked to both of them if they were posting during different times. But this john on this video seems to me to be just...well seems selfish. The john I talked to didn't seem like that. Besides if what they put on the video is true there were two johns posting back and forth I couldn't tell the difference between them. But this john seems different to me. A lot of other people on here thought there was a group titor and they thought they were talking to more than one person. So maybe its just me.
 
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