Message To You All

Well here we go again!!! The spin master is at it again.
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Excellent, you took the bait! How predictable!
That is what the spin master said Qronos 16 said, he said no such thing
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You are incorrect. He DID say this, and now I will give you the time and date he said it:
Re: Message To You All [re: Warrior381]
06/21/06 02:20 PM (81.208.62.251)
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If you go back to this time and date and this post, you will indeed see in his post the following:
Find out how to get Oregano with P73 in it this is the hyssop the bible talks about. Trash your credit cards, I say again trash your credit cards!! Invest your money in Gold. Get out of the stock market if you are associated with it. The market will reach 12000 and then crash big!!!
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So what you have done Peepo, is nothing more than point out that I "overlooked" his earlier post. Great detective work! But now that you have taken the bait, I am afraid we have a quandary on our hands! OH NO! /ttiforum/images/graemlins/ooo.gif We have TWO quotes from Qronos and each one says something slightly different. To avoid SPIN (in EITHER direction) we must now decide which quote is the "real prediction"!

And I am MORE than happy to even accept Qronos' first quote as the "real prediction" as long as you are willing to address quantification of how much "and then some" means in terms of points! Could you please let us know just how much "and then some" refers to?

My bet is that Peepo will simply continue the "spin, spin, spin" accusations and never really address this problem. And meanwhile the stock market remains above 12000 and solid as a rock.

RMT
 
In Reply To:Excellent, you took the bait! How predictable!


Here we go yet again with the spin masters old and tired you took the bait line again. The truth is none of us know what Qronos 16 meant when he said that. We can try to figure it out until 2012 if we want. We can also say It means whatever we want to say it means. Only Qronos 16 knows what he meant by what he said. I think he meant it would go over 12000 some what and then crash, you don't think that. As I did you took one of his responses and ran with it. So your no different then me in that respect. Now after all of that poop you just wrote we are still no clearer on this than when all of this started. I hope the man was wrong about everything he wrote. Just as you, I don't like all of the bad things he wrote. I hope that our future is more fun then he said it would be.Now lets all sit back and watch the spinster make a fool out of himself yet again as he did before when I cleaned his clock.
 
Oh yeah... my clock has been getting really dirty again. Filthy as a matter of fact. I do think the Great Cornholio should get out the windex.

At least I don't have to mask my IP, now do I? That is certainly the finest form of spin there is! Thank God for the small things in life! /ttiforum/images/graemlins/yum.gif
RMT
 
Well I know he got the Art Bell making a mistake right, for over a month Art has been saying over and over his life is in danger since moving to the Philippines. Who knows who or what Qronos is.
 
Pepo,

This time you're simply wrong. Neither Ray nor I were attempting to "spin" Qrono's words. We were attempting to put "Big crash" into some perspective based on what Qronos said was his analysis of the "correct" value of the DOW so that we could quantify is prediction.

Markets don't simply go up and down or zoom and crash without some definable cause (even though the full cause is usually only known after the fact). Therefore...

If we accept that Qronos put 6,800 as the correct value of the market then if it crashes to adjust for the inflated value it has to approach 6,800 during that correction. This is precisely what happens when a market turns from Bull to Bear. It shakes out all of the "false" valuation and falls to its real valuation.

But Qronos made another statement that indicates that he doesn't really know how the market works. He pointed to over printing of currency implying that over printing will be a cause of the crash. But over printing of currency has definite telltale marks that are leading indicators of impending negative movement in the DOW. That indicator is inflation. If, for example, more money is in circulation than current prices can justify prices increase because the supply side believes that consumers have "money to burn." When prices increase labor asks for raises to maintain their (new) increased standard of living. This is normal. If the money supply remains out of balance with "reality" then the result is inflation - a price war between production and consumption.

If over printing of currency is a major component of a market that acccording to Qronos is 43% over priced (12,000 vs. 6,800) then we should be seeing hyperflation...runaway inflation. We see almost no inflation and inflation has been virtually flat for several years.

As I said in my original post, this isn't definitive proof that it can't happen. But at this time there are no indicators suggesting that the current bull market is poised to crash.

Yet, eventually, we will have another bear market. That's not a prediction its an economic fact. Qronos, however, didn't specify when this will happen. To make it a valid prediction we have to know when it is to occur otherwise its true but trivial in the sense that given sufficient time it is a self evident truth.
 
Darby,

But at this time there are no indicators suggesting that the current bull market is poised to crash.

I would disagree...

The 7 Trillion Dollar Federal Debt
The holding of that debt to China, Japan, England and Saudi Arabia
The 500 Billion Federal Deficit
The ever expanding Trade Deficit... The number escapes me but it might be 70 Billion a year..
The use of petro-dollars as the backing of the dollar (Dollar is just paper)
The practice of offshoring companies out the United States
The practice of outsouring people to low-wage countries such as China and India
The loss of manufacturing jobs...
The use of foreign exchange rates to prop up the dollar (Dollar is just paper)
The overuse of stock options and stock issuance
The number of companies who are offshore but listed in Dow
The economy numbers being misled led like the "unemployment" number...
The housing bubble where prices have fallen 10% nationwide recently...
The over use of home owner loans to finance lifestyle and debt obligations...
The foreclosure rate skyrocketing...
The savings rate at zero for Americans
The use of financial crack such as credit cards

And the stock market is only a tool for short term gain... Really unrelated to the overall economy... Money out versus Money in and Money saved is the 'economy'

America is financial 'toast' as they say... America is gone It is just a shell now... A crash is coming... not related to Qronos but it is coming... It may be more of a slow implosion though...

TheCigMan
 
CigMan,

You may or may not be correct...but your post has nothing to do with either Peepo's criticism or Qronos' "prediction", which is what Ray and I were addressing.

A personal outlook of "doom & gloom" is more reflective of the psyche of the person who holds the opinion than it is a picture of the reality of that world.

That you lack self confidence and see a world of darkness doesn't equate to a world that demands that position. It could very well be that because you aren't particilarly comfortable with your personal lot in life that you seek out confirmation as to why and then generalize it to the whole so that you don't feel so alone in your misery.

Me...I'm an optomist. I feel pretty good about life, the world and myself. But that's just me, I guess.
 
Wa1ex,

Nice charts, but there was a caveat in the first paragrah on the site where you obtained them.

That much aside, the charts don't tell the complete picture of the state of the debt.

In 1950 the charts indicate that the per capita debt was ~$2,000. It doesn't mention that in 1950 the per capita income was ~$1,510, i.e. the per capita debt represented 133% of per capita income.

The charts say that per capita debt today is ~$25,000. It doesn't mention that per capita income today is ~$46,326, i.e. per capita debt represents 54% of per capita income.

In other words, we've reduced debt per capita a whopping 246% relative to per capita income over the past 56 years. Not bad, eh, Canadian? ;)

 
In Reply to: This time you're simply wrong. Neither Ray nor I were attempting to "spin" Qrono's words. We were attempting to put "Big crash" into some perspective based on what Qronos said was his analysis of the "correct" value of the DOW so that we could quantify is prediction.

And that's understandable, the only problem is as I stated we don't know what he meant for sure. Also feeling pretty good about life has nothing to do with the reality of what is going on in the nation. We are heading for a crash. Now don't get me wrong I'm all for felling good about life but I'm not going to say that because someone says they think something bad is going to happen that they are not comfortable with their personal lot in life. Was Qronos a Time Traveler? I don't think so, but he did bring up some very interesting things that are going on.
 
Darby,

You can be child like in your view of the world and say 'everything wonderful' when adults know everything isn't Or you just mad you are dead wrong.

You stated and I quote "But at this time there are no indicators suggesting that the current bull market is poised to crash."

Not mention that every major hi is follow by a low statistically speaking...

"A personal outlook of "doom & gloom" is more reflective of the psyche of the person who holds the opinion than it is a picture of the reality of that world."

Ever hear of realism? Or did you plug me in your CIA analysis machine /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif lol You crack me up /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif

"That you lack self confidence and see a world of darkness doesn't equate to a world that demands that position. It could very well be that because you aren't particilarly comfortable with your personal lot in life that you seek out confirmation as to why and then generalize it to the whole so that you don't feel so alone in your misery."

Save the pop psychology for someone who knows psychology... I am miserable lol Really I didn't know.. /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif

What gloom & doom have spoken of? Anything I said about Titor's prediction was based on real world events and not necessarily my opinion but a corelation to news matching his predictions.

I equate you and friends here to disinformation agents... What is your true motiviation escapes me yet..

The economy is horrible... Phony Job Unemployment Numbers and Massaged Growth Numbers don't hide it...

If you read more... Or wasn't conned by reporting and news media... Any intelligent person would know that...

"Me...I'm an optomist. I feel pretty good about life, the world and myself. But that's just me, I guess."

Sounds like you are delusional to me... But that's just me... I quess... /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delusion


And actually I more of a surfer dude than you could possibly imagine... Chill Man /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif

TheCigMan
 
Cig,
The economy is horrible... Phony Job Unemployment Numbers and Massaged Growth Numbers don't hide it...

If you read more... Or wasn't conned by reporting and news media... Any intelligent person would know that...
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Ever hear of the Boy Who Cried Wolf?

Let's setup a scenario that will help to explain my point:

Our friend CigSmokingMan is sighted out in a swanky California (let's put him in Sonoma) restaurant engaging in his favorite past time of smoking. But Ciggy is remiss in that he has forgotten that the LAW prevents him from smoking in restaurants in this fine state. Now, there are two different types of reactions that we could follow:

1) Someone at the bar nudges the guy next to him and says "Hey, look at that idiot over there...he's breaking the law." Then that guy gets up from the bar and walks over to a table of people and exclaims while pointing at Ciggy "Can you believe that guy? He is endangering all our lives by blatantly disrespecting our fine state law." At that point one of the people at the table gets up and walks over to a waitress and begins to tell her about how this "smoking in restaurants is a blatant conspiracy... and that you and the manager and the owner are simply IN CAHOOTs with the CigMan, with your ultimate intentions being to endanger our lives with carcinogens." Finally, the waitress leaves the restaurant and walks up the street to the local TV station where she gives an "exclusive interview" on how she "has information" on her boss that incriminates him such that he KNEW CigMan was coming to the restuarant, and he PURPOSEFULLY did NOTHING to explain to CigMan that here in California we don't allow smoking in restaurants." At the end of the interview she mentions that she is open to selling her story to anyone who is interested in the rights.

That is one way to handle this smoking conspiracy. And we can see just how much it got done in handling the real source of the problem. /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif But there is another way:

2) RMT happens to be in Sonoma for a wine festival, and he wanders into the eating establishment to see CigMan puffing away while trying to figure out how to eat his sushi. RMT notices that there is a buzz around the restaurant and he keeps hearing things like "conspiracy" and "selfish capitalists", and "I knew we shouldn't have let WalMart come to town." Calmly, RMT walks up to CigMan at his table, removes the offensive cigarette from CigMan's mouth, and drops it into his water glass. As he walks away from the table RMT is heard to say "We have LAWS in this state that frown on smoking in eating establishments. You would do well to respect those laws while you are here. Have a nice day."

I think the point about what CigMan does here is now obvious. Talk is cheap, and too much talk stokes the fire of conspiracy (whether there really is a conspiracy or not).
RMT
 
Darby:

I stand corrected the debt per capita was not included
to look at the overall picture.

But Also remember the debt is accumulating interest
the higher the debt...The happier the banks are.

Einstein once said:
compunding is "the greatest mathematical discovery of all time."

So with that said:
The National Debt has continued to increase an average of
$1.62 billion per day since September 30, 2005.
Source:
http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/

Will household income (after inflation) grow at the same rate
the interest on the debt is accumulating? I guess it depends on how
Optimistic or Pessimistic someone is...


In other words, we've reduced debt per capita a whopping 246% relative to per capita income over the past 56 years. Not bad, eh, Canadian?
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Not not bad at all, Im hoping the economy stays this way, I truly do. On a side note
Im Salvadoran/Canadian so I find the use of the "eh? " term funny as well.

piechartusdebt.gif


So Looking at the piechart Canada owns 48 Billion from the US debt
what does that mean?

From another site:
"Someone should be glad the foreign debt owners are willing to help keeping the US tax rates lower, and the U.S. economic growth rate higher, by lending the U.S. their dollars to help the U.S. finance such things as the war on terror, Katrina repairs, and the future Border btw the U.S. and Mexico."

But since I am neither a U.S citizen nor have full understanding of the Economics and Politics
my points of view could be wrong, but I have no problem accepting this as long as the information given is acurate and non biased. I have seen/experienced how corrupt and dangerous a government can be but the United States is far away from this, reason it is the most envied country of the world.
 
Peepo,

And that's understandable, the only problem is as I stated we don't know what he meant for sure. Also feeling pretty good about life has nothing to do with the reality of what is going on in the nation. We are heading for a crash. Now don't get me wrong I'm all for felling good about life but I'm not going to say that because someone says they think something bad is going to happen that they are not comfortable with their personal lot in life. Was Qronos a Time Traveler? I don't think so, but he did bring up some very interesting things that are going on.
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Rather than saying, "Spin, spin, spin" that's a much more reasonable and thoughtful response. I said that CigMan has a general doom & gloom outlook on life because that's the picture that he portrays about his view of life in the totality of his posts - not just that one post. Everything's a "guvmit" conspiracy. If that's his view I certainly have no ability, or even intention, to change it. It is what it is.

Was Qronos a time traveler? No - he wasn't. He was just another in a long line of Titor follow-ons who choose to use a time travel forum for a political soap box rather than getting onto the soap box via a political discussion forum. He stated his opinion of what the world appears to be to himself, made some very broad "predictions" that can't really be tested and he found some like minds relative to his political positions.

Now, there's really nothing bad, evil or wrong about any of that in so far as stating his political opinion goes. But we're discussing time travel. He offered nothing definitive to support his claim.

I'm surprised that none of the "conspiracy" fans who are also believers (to varying degrees) have never questioned the obvious government conspiracy/abuse of power that the would-be time travelers posit.

It seems that the sole purpose of time travel, according to our many Titor follow-ons - as well as Titor himself - is to use it as a government propoganda machine to influence the decisions of the populace to turn against their governments through the use of scare tactics. Remember that every time traveler uses the same plot twist - this isn't their world and this isn't their nation. It's similar but there's that "divergence" plot enhancer. In other words wherever they come from and whatever their nation's name happens to be it isn't any nation on this planet.

England, Germany, France and just about every other nation on our planet is "similar" to this nation. If those same conspiracy fans thought that their government was doing precisely what our time travelers do, attempting to influence the the population of a foreign nation to revolt against their government by sending agents provocateur among them stating that this or that nation will blow them up if they don't conform to a standard of behavior that we demand, they'd have a coronary as they attempted to write their posts. They'd go into a purple rage, they'd be so worked up.

Yet when a time traveler does the same - nary a word. Why is that?
 
wa1ex,

Good job on the response. I actually threw you a red herring because I simply tossed out a statistic but didn't relate it to any economic theory. Yes, Peepo, that was actually "spin". ;)

But you shouldn't simply look at a nation's debt to make a decision about its economic health. Debt is only the "Liability" section of a balance sheet. To get a complete picture you have to look at the Assets. From those you obtain Equity, A+L =E (assets plus liabilities equal equity, loosely Net Worth).

Then look at the Profit and Loss statement. In this case, look at Gross Domestic Product and Gross Domestic Income.

In the case of the USA you have about $8 trillion of debt. But you also have $13.27 trillion of Gross Domestic Income for the 2nd Quarter of 2006 of which 10.9 trillion dollars is Personal Income (National Income less Corporate profits) and $8.1 trillion in disposable income.

Do we have debt. We sure do - and I wish if was less than it is. Do we have the ability to pay the debt off. Yes. We do. The people own 32% of the debt, Social Security owns 42% of the debt. Only 26% is foreign owned and that debt is in the form of loans and trade credits that we use to stimulate both domestic and foreign economic growth. Without that foreign debt countries like China would have no capital to use to become a world trading partner...and a few million more Chinese nationals would starve to death every year. That would be a very bad situation for the Far East. It would force China into making the decision as to whether they simply wait for a sufficient number of people to starve to death in order to bring their population into line with their means of production or to engage in some sort of "economic excursion" to appropriate to themselves new markets in the region. In other words, they would have to decide what countries to invade.

Debt in itself is not bad. Debt is used to grow an economy.

http://bea.gov/bea/newsrel/gdpnewsrelease.htm

 
England, Germany, France and just about every other nation on our planet is "similar" to this nation. If those same conspiracy fans thought that their government was doing precisely what our time travelers do, attempting to influence the the population of a foreign nation to revolt against their government by sending agents provocateur among them stating that this or that nation will blow them up if they don't conform to a standard of behavior that we demand, they'd have a coronary as they attempted to write their posts. They'd go into a purple rage, they'd be so worked up.

Yet when a time traveler does the same - nary a word. Why is that?
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Thank you, Darby. Being selective in what you "report" and what you "confront" is also a sly form of propaganda, which has the same intent as alleged "government plots"... to twist someone's mind to believe their propaganda. But no one can control the man who is truly free.

RMT
 
Gentlemen,

Nice chart. But the government has been tapping the Social Security Trust Fund for years. So the pie chart ah not so accurate. /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Currently, it takes 2 Billion a day in foreign investment in Government Bonds to keep America 'solvent'

As for my doom&gloom, I post newspapers articles from mostly major papers and news outlets. If there is doom&gloom it is your reading of those articles.

And RMT I wouldn't go to California in the first place because I know you can't smoke... /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Have Nice Day,

TheCigMan
 
In reply to:
The new bill that just passed is one big step in the direction of the NEW WORLD ORDER.If it passes all the way, the middle class people of this nation will be destroyed.But that's not the bad part.The globalist will then have a reason to chip the illegals.Then laws will be passed to chip kids.Then adults.

Well it looks like Qronos 16's mission failed they are talking about passing that bill all the way now.
 
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