God?

Re: Contemplating Darwin...

As you can see, Roel, I've tired of this thread somewhat.
Click to expand...

And I haven't been able to make any posts lately since I have very little time on my hands :-) All I do is read the new posts and see if everyone is still behaving properly ;-)

However, I still think you are not opening your eyes wide enough to see the evidence that is out there.
Click to expand...

Perhaps you'd like to believe otherwise, but I'm still very openminded. So far I haven't seen any evidence. Clearly you're experiencing things that I am not. To you these experiences are real, but to me they hold no more value than any dream or hallucination, for the simple fact that I don't have the same experiences.


Are you willing to look at some fairly solid evidence that the evolutionary timeline set down by Darwin does not mesh with archaeological facts?
Click to expand...

Darwin died in 1882. Science has come a long way since 1882. However he timeline Darwin set is still more accurate than the timeline set by the Bible.


The authors of the earlier book noted in the link above have a new one that further challenges the accepted view of Darwinism. You can bet that I have ordered it and will be reading it thoroughly:
Click to expand...

I don't "buy into" these books easily. I always remain sceptic (in the most positive sense of the word). Not too long ago there was a book by Francesco Carotta about the similarities between Jesus Christ and Julius Caesar. Now, the similarities are striking, but since this is only the view of one writer I chose not to believe it until scientist find some profound evidence for the statement that Julius Caesar and Jesus Christ are actually one and the same.


For your readingpleasure... (click)


Roel
 
Re: Science of the Virgin Birth?

One would be hard-pressed to argue away the fact that artificial insemination clearly qualifies as a scientific interpretation of "virgin birth".
Click to expand...

I can think of many reasons how this "virgin birth" could have taken place. Artificial Insemination does not sound like the most plausible explanation though. I've read several theories on this subject. One theory is that the whole story about the virgin birth is a misinterpretation of the original Hebrew text.

Also, "virgin birth" is highly improbable but not necessarily impossible! There are several known cases of what could be considered "virgin births" among insects and other animals.
 
Read a frightening article today ....

While visiting my parents this week-end, I picked up a local newpaper to read during a moment I had to myself. There was an article about a Church that had been turned down ( denied building permits ) to construct a camp for a youth program.

This Church wanted to build for their " Royal Rangers ", a fort, gun ranges, archery ranges, as well as a swimming pool and a gymnasium.

A pool and gynamsium...o.k. But why would a Church construct a camp for kids with a fort, gun ranges, and archery ranges ?

I know this is somewhat out of context with this thread, but I felt the need to express my dismay at such an idea.
 
Re: Read a frightening article today ....

I knew two kids who wanted to be members of the Royal Rangers.

Their instructor was such a firebrand, that he hit one young lad, in the privates with a thrown football, calling him sissy. The other they poured vegetable oil on his head, for not being up to Royal Ranger standards of that church.
 
Re: Contemplating Darwin...

So far I haven't seen any evidence
Click to expand...

Yes, you have seen evidence. We posted some examples of the tight tolerances for the existence of life. You dismissed these as accidents.

How can you make a logical assertion that multiple accidents could occur randomly in just the right way to allow life to begin?

Even as a believer in evolution, you believe that life evolved from pond scum, and humanity, a product of this evolutionary process, is now capable of developing "immortal" cells. Is it that difficult to follow the possiblities of continued evolution to the point that man becomes immortal?

It isnt a matter of "if" man will become immortal, but when. With the rapid advances in science, what will our descendents have become with the technologies available in a thousand years? two thousand years? ten thousand years?

Humanity has taken the control of evolution away from nature and now humanity is setting it's own pace and progress with their evolution.

How much of a stretch is it to conceive of highly evolved "individuals" becoming capable of manipulting time and space, becoming capable of time travel as immortals, and possessing the technology to create the type of Universe we exist within?

To deny the possibility of highly evolved beings developing the above mentioned abilities, that is bascially making the following assertions...
1. Evolution of humanity does not lead to immortal beings.
2. These beings will not develope the ability to manipulate time and space.
3. Thus advanced humanity will never become immortal and never time travel.

So the question that arises is...

4. Why dont you believe time travel is a possibility?
 
Re: Contemplating Darwin...

Yes, you have seen evidence. We posted some examples of the tight tolerances for the existence of life. You dismissed these as accidents.
Click to expand...

No. The world around me is not in any way evidence that it was created. I also stated that the world, or the universe for that matter, in its current state is the result of several billion years of evolution. An accident may not be the best way to describe it, but in my opinion there is no indication whatsoever that this universe was created.

How can you make a logical assertion that multiple accidents could occur randomly in just the right way to allow life to begin?
Click to expand...

If billions of accidents happen, it would seem that there's a quite a chance that one of these accidents could lead to a series of accidents that allow life to begin. It's a matter of perception and obviously we perceive things in different ways.


It isnt a matter of "if" man will become immortal, but when. With the rapid advances in science, what will our descendents have become with the technologies available in a thousand years? two thousand years? ten thousand years?
Click to expand...

I've already made a very similar statement earlier in this thread. In other words... I agree /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif


How much of a stretch is it to conceive of highly evolved "individuals" becoming capable of manipulting time and space, becoming capable of time travel as immortals, and possessing the technology to create the type of Universe we exist within?
Click to expand...

In the end it might turn out that we've created ourselves /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif


To deny the possibility of highly evolved beings developing the above mentioned abilities, that is bascially making the following assertions...
Click to expand...

I am not denying any of those possibilities. I'm just saying that I do not believe that WE were created in the same way that you are describing.


4. Why dont you believe time travel is a possibility?
Click to expand...

I do consider time travel as a possibility. I'll even say that I consider "god" as a possibility. I just don't accept either as a truth. Timetravel is possible in theory, but there are a lot of physical limitations we have yet to overcome before we can actually travel in time (if we ever get that far). My question to you is: Why don't you believe that the NON existence of god is a possibility?.
 
Re: Contemplating Darwin...

Why don't you believe that the NON existence of god is a possibility?.
Click to expand...

I have had my moments of doubt and have had moments of non-belief during some very difficult times in my life. However, God is someone I have experienced on more than one occasion. I have spent many, many years with increasing my awareness and now can sense the presence of God in everything.

The possiblitiy of Gods Non-Existence isnt a question for me. I know He exists, but being the impulsive, impatient individual that I am, I wanted to know now about God and exactly what my role was in the scheme of creation. What was my goal ?

As mentioned earlier, I used to sit in Church listening to the sermon and I didnt believe that God didnt exist just because of the method of preaching, and I also knew I didn't need to " reach deep into my pockets " to know God better. I had the feeling that there was so much more than what was on the surface and began to dig into the different religions, and systems of faith to find answers to my questions regarding my own Truth, as to whom I really was in the scheme of creation.

I wandered aimlessly, with so much material and experiences to go through, I didnt feel as though I was progressing. Then I was directed to the Tree Of Life and this provided the "road map" I needed.
As I researched more and more those texts and other information related to the Kabbalah, all my discoveries started to fall into place. My path had become illuminated and now I know what my goal is.

There is so much material to study, and I don't believe everything I review, so finding the pieces to my particular puzzle is difficult.

I have the same questions, just as you do. Why does God allow this world to continue with all the destruction that has been wrought? Why are children stricken by illnesses that they dont seem to deserve? Why, Why, Why...?

It is up to each one of us to find those answers. Each one of us is placed within the particular life to experience the world from that individual perspective. For some, it may be to experience life without believing in God. Since that isn't my path, it is only a guess.


An accident may not be the best way to describe it, but in my opinion there is no indication whatsoever that this universe was created.
Click to expand...

If it was not created, than it would have had to be the result of multiple accidents. What other possiblities are there?

In the end it might turn out that we've created ourselves
Click to expand...

There may be more truth to this statement than you realize. If you ponder the idea of being immortal and have been around for a few million years or so, creating this world wouldn't be far fetched for us having a place to "play." A vacation from Eternity.
 
Re: Contemplating Darwin...

I know He exists,
Click to expand...

You know he exists. What makes you so sure that the god you experience is not an illusion?


I have the same questions, just as you do.
Click to expand...

No, that's a misconception. Although I do ask them, I do not seek answers to questions like "Why does God allow this world to continue with all the destruction that has been wrought?". I simply don't think there is a god, so these questions are superfluous to begin with. By asking these questions I hope that people will consider the possibility that there is no god.


It is up to each one of us to find those answers.
Click to expand...

It's up to us to help people in need, because in my opinion there is no god who will do that for us.
I hope in the future people will start thanking doctors for saving lives, instead of thanking god.


Since that isn't my path, it is only a guess.
Click to expand...

And it's your choice to make. I respect your believes.


If it was not created, than it would have had to be the result of multiple accidents. What other possiblities are there?
Click to expand...

I feel like "accidents" is not the best way to describe it, but in lack of a better description it will have to suffice.
 
Re: Contemplating Darwin...

How can you make a logical assertion that multiple accidents could occur randomly in just the right way to allow life to begin?
Click to expand...

How can you make a logical assertation that multiple accidents could occur randomly in just the right way to allow the specific person that you are to be born from your ancestors stretching back thousands of years?

2. These beings will not develope the ability to manipulate time and space.
Click to expand...

The assumption here is that only immortal beings can develop the ability to manipulate time and space.

I know it wasn't addressed to me, but I'll answer this question, too:

Do you want to believe in God?
Click to expand...

No. But don't make the mistake of thinking that this means that I want to not believe in God. I have no real feelings on the subject one way or the other. I don't want to believe in Father Christmas, and I don't want to not believe in him, either. I simply don't believe that he exists.
 
Re: Contemplating Darwin...

Hey!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Welcome back.

How can you make a logical assertation that multiple accidents could occur randomly in just the right way to allow the specific person that you are to be born from your ancestors stretching back thousands of years?
Click to expand...

I don't. I believe we select specific life-styles as a specific identity to experience life AS that individual. There are specific experiences we need to live through and learn the dynamics of living through those events.

The assumption here is that only immortal beings can develop the ability to manipulate time and space.
Click to expand...

Not necessarily. The idea behind this assertion is that once immortal, I can foresee the beings getting rather bored after a few million years. I could understand wanting a place of variation and seemingly random events to experience. Sort of like a Disneyland for immortals. Some line up at the Pirates of the Carribean, some line up at the Haunted House, or some go to line up at Mr. Toads Wild Ride, different rides for different individuals.

No. But don't make the mistake of thinking that this means that I want to not believe in God. I have no real feelings on the subject one way or the other. I don't want to believe in Father Christmas, and I don't want to not believe in him, either. I simply don't believe that he exists.
Click to expand...


Either you want to Believe in God, or you don't. The "wanting" has nothing to do with what you actually believe or not. If you "want" a 1969 Chevy Chevelle, customized and built-up American Style, you would search in-depth for such a vehicle, whether you believed it existed or not.
 
Re: Contemplating Darwin...

If you "want" a 1969 Chevy Chevelle, customized and built-up American Style, you would search in-depth for such a vehicle, whether you believed it existed or not.
Click to expand...

That's not a good comparison. Cars exist, Chevy's exist, so there's a good chance that this specific model is available somewhere.

God is a whole different story. I don't see any indication that would suggest the existence of god, so why would I want to believe in god?
 
Re: Contemplating Darwin...

That's not a good comparison. Cars exist, Chevy's exist, so there's a good chance that this specific model is available somewhere.

God is a whole different story. I don't see any indication that would suggest the existence of god, so why would I want to believe in god?
Click to expand...


The Chevy analogy is merely a demonstraction of action resulting from a "want".
As far as you wanting to believe in God, that is entirely up to you.
The evidence is there, if you " wanted " to see it.
 
Re: Contemplating Darwin...

Welcome back.
Click to expand...

Thank you. I never really went away, I've just been really busy.

I don't. I believe we select specific life-styles as a specific identity to experience life AS that individual.
Click to expand...

So you believe that you chose to be you, I chose to be me, a baby who lives for 36 hours chose that life, and so on?

The idea behind this assertion is that once immortal, I can foresee the beings getting rather bored after a few million years.
Click to expand...

I quite agree. In fact, this has always been one of the problems I've had with people believeing in an afterlife and not wanting to die. Why? You could do everything that is possible, and you'd still have more then twice as long to sit around scratching yourself.

I can't see the appeal.

Either you want to Believe in God, or you don't.
Click to expand...

I don't actively want to believe in God, no. But I don't actively want to not believe in Him, either. It is a matter of no concern to me whatsoever. I am indifferent to the subject.

If you "want" a 1969 Chevy Chevelle, customized and built-up American Style, you would search in-depth for such a vehicle, whether you believed it existed or not.
Click to expand...

If I didn't believe that it existed, I would customise one myself.

Hmmm, maybe that metaphor does fit well after all.
 
Re: Contemplating Darwin...

Discovered a website you may like to play around with. It lays out what Rainmantime and myself have been discussing in this thread, regarding gematria. The numerical values of the hebrew letters and connections between the contents of the texts. however, this site takes a somewhat different approach. Still is interesting though

www.biblewheel.com
 
Re: Contemplating Darwin...

Many questions have been asked regarding a simple explaination of what kind of research is involved with the Kabbalah and the Tree Of Life. The diagram below demonstrates the many paths that have been led to the formation of the Hermetic Kabbalah. As one can see it covers a vast region of thought and philosophy. To ask for a simple answer can be difficult since there is so much to study and understand. I would like to thank the creator of this chart for allowing others to see the history of the developement of the Hermetic Kabbalah.

bigpic.gif
]
 
Re: Contemplating Darwin...

That chart looks to be very biased, where are the Buddhists?, Muslims? And what is that "Golden Dawn", heheh... looks funny to me.
 
Back
Top