Would a TT from the F commune with a web site of T

Pamela,

You are basically saying the people here don't matter because they exist on several other worlds.
Then you could equally say the same for all the other worlds you arrive on.
Then you are basically saying people have very little value on any world line.
I am glad John didn't think that way.
Click to expand...

But he did think that way. I was using his definition of QM. He didn't say that he and his copies "exist on several other worlds." He said they existed on an infinite number of worlds, i.e. his Hall of Mirrors allusion. He also said that every action plays out in an infinite set of alternate results. An infinite number of John Titor's told the entire story. An infinite number of Pamelas broke the promise not to tell. At least in Titor's view of QM that's the case (which is actually more a problem of his having read too many Internet alt.sci physics sites than being a valid interpretation of QM).

As to putting his family in danger, we've already discussed that issue.

If it was dangerous for his "not really" family he shouldn't have posted anything. He said that posting was not a part of his mission. He said that stopping off in 2000 was not a part of his mission. He said that he did that on his own without authorization. He purposely deviated from his mission profile for personal reasons. He compromised the mission - not us.

His mission was to go to 1975, pick up the computer and return it to 2036. His mission was not to stop off here, post away on the Internet, send private emails to you and generally leave electronic tracks that lead back to his family.

If his family was in any danger he put them there - not you, not me and not anyone else on any Internet site.

As we discussed many years ago, if he was a real TT then there would eventually be other TT's from factions opposed to his 1/5th regional government in his own time. You can't erase the evidence from your computer. Its there in the past. They can find it just as easily as any other opposition force who has access to time travel.

He wasn't thinking about danger to his family when he made private contact with you, when he chatted with any of the people that he alluded to in the IRC chat log or when he used a friend's email account to contact Art Bell.

You've said that you won't reveal his IP address's because that would be very dangerous for his family. You've assumed that you are the keeper, maybe the sole keeper, of this sensitive and dangerous information. However...

Art Bell has access to his IP's. Keith and Mary Rowland have access to his IP's. Many people at Premiere Radio have access to his IP's. Raul Burriel has access to his IP's.

They own or operate the sites that he posted on. Every time that he logged on the IP that he was using was logged. If he used multiple IP's then over time, multiple IP's were logged. Anyone who has a friend who works for AOL who is willing to do some (illegal) snooping can find out who owns the account associated with [email protected].

The "its too dangerous" dodge is just that - a dodge. The IP information was never secure and the number of persons who have access to the information is not insignificant.

In fact, for a price, anyone can have legal access to his IP's. Its a very straight forward process. I know the price but I'm not willing to pay it. Its not all that expensive but I'm not all that curious.

The point is - if this was dangerous information and the Big Bad Enemy of John Titor US Government (present or future) was the villian they can purchase the information legally without resorting to the slightest bit of Big or Bad.
 
Stonicus,

As for proof of TT? You'd need to predict accurately events free from human intervention. Most notably events on the astronomical scale. Meteor strikes. Comets. Solar flares. Sun spots. Anything outside of the human sphere of influence.
Click to expand...

I agree with you, in general, that these are valid "proofs". The problem with them is that they are somewhat subject to interpretation (data fitting) and they aren't generally events that occur on a daily basis. When this sort of proof is offered it usually boils down to "close" is close enough, i.e. - solar flare predicted for December 1st doesn't occur but one does occur on December 5th. Skeptics would say "no hit". Non-skeptics would say "Close enough for government work. Its a hit."

That's why I chose the baseball game results. Very specific information; precise schedule; not subject to interpretation; very precise date for the events to occur; very large pool of participants; very widely publicized; official records; several million witnesses; not easily manipulated.

Of course, it is theoretically possible for someone to manipulate all 32 teams, 32 managers, ~128 assistant coaches, 32 starting pitchers, ~60 relief pitchers, 256 starting position players, 16 DH's, ~50 assorted pinch hitters and defensive replacements and 64 umpires to get the desired result. But the probability of getting all of the ~630 people to perform exactly the right actions is vanishingly small.
 
Hey with the last patch the game actually works in Windows 2K:

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/strategy/imperiumgalactica2alliances/index.html?q=Imperium%20Galactica%20II

Why mention that?

Well, it was ahead of its time, I guess.

But, in the game, well, the only 'time' is by the dials of time churning around to make the game, as with most games -- a "Certain Amount of Time".

Now, speaking of time:

http://www.wired.com/news/wireservice/0,71298-0.html?tw=wn_index_9 Wired News: Human Family Tree: Shallow Roots

Yep!

I like to keep a few Favorites around:
http://www.serpo.org/ Oh, especially this one!

http://www.asu.edu/clas/iho/lucy.html Institute of Human Origins -- (now there is a phrase!)

Time!

Well, I guess some formulas would do, or something similiar!

/ttiforum/images/graemlins/yum.gif
 
Germain,

An interesting response.

But, a time traveller might want to vist 'Present Day' TT internet sites, because he/she can address issues with anominity.
Click to expand...

Anonimity from whom?

How is physical TT accomplished? Worm holes? Black holes? White holes? Fater than light travel?
Electro magnetics/fields? Strings? Old Emile Drouet's Time Rocket? Dimension manipulation?
Click to expand...

Is there something other than "physical" time travel? Can you define what you mean here?

White holes? Do they even exist? What relationship do they have to time travel? What is a white hole?

Faster than light? I'm assuming that you mean FTL in a vacuum. High energy particles can travel FTL in a non-vacuum. But in a vacuum - no.

We won't be traveling FTL. We'll even have hugely difficult problems traveling at .6c. Accelerating to that velocity is an engineering problem - it can be done. Running into space dust will shower the occupants of the vessel with very high energy protons. Not a good thing for the health of the crew. Hitting space sand pebbles at that velocity will likely result in catastrophic hull failure. "Discovering" an otherwise undiscovered star that lies in the path of the vessel would be a "hot" topic for the crew.

Even high velocity STR time dilation time travel will be a very difficult engineering and ultimately, physics problem. There's a real universe "out there" that has real "stuff" in it that one doesn't want to run into at .6c.

If I was to explain to you how time travel is performed (moving physical matter through 'TIME'), what would you do?
Click to expand...

Look very closely at your explanation and try to break it down. I'd want to see if it holds up to close scrutiny. That shouldn't bother you.

I'd also want to know why it was important to you to discuss the issue with us. Is it ego? What's in it for you? What's in it for us? Why aren't you discussing the subject on SPR or some other academic physics site where actual theoretical physicists post?
 
In Titor's case, he's already laid the framework to make his claims unfalsifiable. By his own admission, some baseball scores are different. This alone opens the possibility that anything he predicts that didn't happen is not proof of him as a hoax.

Let's say in his timeline, the New York Giants won the superbowl, but in ours, the Redskins did. However, his concept of divergence is too quaint for me. If the Giants win over the Redskins, the divergence would be ENOURMOUS! Instead of cheering and celebrating, you are now pouting and mad. You're gonna have sex with your wife that night, but delay you copulating with your wife by even a second due to celebration or sorrow over the game outcome and a different sperm reaches the egg and an entirely different child is born, if she gets pregnant at all. Imagine every single person you have ever encountered. If you're not born, the change would be drastic. You're now not in front of me at the store one day, so now I get my soda quicker and don't get stopped by the red light. My entire sequence of events is now altered, and now when I impregnate my wife, we don't have a daughter, we have a son. An outcome such as a ballgame is enourmous. The money that changes hands. The sale of shirts and caps of the winner now changes. The schedule of the football league is now different. Travel plans are altered. If John's line, the Giants play their first game at home. In ours, they play in Philadelphia. Just this diveregence alters who even attends the game, and for those die-hard fans, determins if they can watch the game in their home town or have to fly or drive a great distance.

For John's claims to be true, even ballscores must be the same. The only valid differences I can phathom to maintain any kind of continuity would be unnnoticable things. A grain of sand in a different place. A piece of dust in the air. The orbit of a comet around a sun in a distant galaxy.

The inability to prove or disprove a time traveler's claim is built into the "infinite worldlines" theory.

So to ever have proof of time travel, you would have to physically experience it, or "infinite worldines" would have to not be the case.
 
Darby,

I really don't think revealing the IP now will put John's family in any danger.
But I won't reveal what I have because I promised him I wouldn't.
John never used the "Sanquina" email with me.

You do not know if these "electronic tracks" lead back to his family.
Maybe Art Bell does not have as much as you think. He has an email, one of which John never
used with me. For all you know he could have had someone else send it. /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif
I don't know about the posting though. It obviously didn't make much of a difference
because John's family seems to be ok. Atleast that is what I have heard.

Think about it Darby. Look how big the John Titor thing got. Even the gov.
was downloading stuff from Anomalies on John. How do you know it didn't change something?
How do you know this was not the plan all along? Just because John said it wasn't?

I think John found the right combo to be interesting to the people who mattered and be entertainment to the people who didn't.

Whats really important is what the end result will be for the worldline.
Not how many people believed you or not or If you were entertaining enough or not.

Besides this thread is about Germain being a time traveler not John.
And it seeems like he really isn't posting a whole lot on here.
Which is a little disappointing for me.
Still waiting for him to post some more info that is interesting.
 
Pamela,

Besides this thread is about Germain being a time traveler not John.
Click to expand...

It is? Where and when did Germain say that he was a time traveler? I don't see anywhere in this thread where he even suggested that he might be a time traveler.

And as I recall, he brought John Titor into the thread. I said that it wasn't a great idea to mention him. His response was to ask a question about him.

The "gov" wasn't downloading information about John from Anomalies. We had several people lurking who had dot gov and dot mil URL's. They weren't necessarily interested in John Titor. We had a lot of topics going other than TT, including terrorism.

But we also had many staff members who had dot gov and dot mil accounts because they work for the government. Some disclosed that information to the members - others didn't.

How do you know this was not the plan all along? Just because John said it wasn't?
Click to expand...

In a word, yes. Otherwise one simply disregards everything that he did say if it doesn't fit their POV and then fill in the blanks created by the self-editing with their own Titor Saga.

Whats really important is what the end result will be for the worldline. Not how many people believed you or not or If you were entertaining enough or not.
Click to expand...

Which makes me wonder why you continue to say, "I just want to know the truth" about Titor. Which is it? Do you want to know the truth or are you satisfied with what happens to the "worldline" and the truth isn't relevent?

I really don't think revealing the IP now will put John's family in any danger.
Click to expand...

If he was actually a TT revealing it "now" isn't the issue, is it? The information is still on your computer "then". It will always be on your computer "then" - there's nothing that you can do to change that fact. If his enemies were real and they gain access to time travel (which they will) then they will find a way to get that information from your computer.

As I have said many times - if it was dangerous information then he wasn't using his brain when he "talked" to you online. He didn't consider the consequences of the very technology that he was yacking about.
 
I really don't think revealing the IP now will put John's family in any danger.
But I won't reveal what I have because I promised him I wouldn't.
Click to expand...
Why did you ever reveal, or simply confirm others claims, that you even have this information at all then?

I've followed the Titor story for some time, and I see the original core group of those involved being more concerned with keeping their publicly known status as John's confidants and remaining in the center of the story than actually getting to the truth, or "protecting" John. If your true goal was to protect John, you'd either not post at all about it, or go out of your way to make people think it was all a hoax, even if you had to lie to do so. But that's not the case.

I don't mean my comments as an attack, but it definitly seems you have your own motives to remain a key player at the center of this fantastic story, and that motive is most definitly not about "protecting" John at all.
 
Oh, not really. You see, it was being discussed but I don't think the 'core' people had anything to do with all the other events that took place.

It was done on a public forum in the first place -- Art Bell's BBS forum that people could sign up and in for when that BBS was up on the Internet. This place, another place that Time_Travel_0 posted is certainly the first place that I know he posted, and is a public forum. In fact, his threads are still here, and anyone going through over a hundred pages can find those threads still to this day.

I don't like the accusations of "keeping it alve" when the events were done by other people in this World also. It is like gossip, and that is how it was treated. Even in shock, people should know more about how to respond to shock and what they are reading.

But that still does not preclude that still the N. Korean Dictator is still a "crazy" certainly thinking that China is going to keep backing him. Even with taller shoes, he still is not going to get above the curb of his own sewer Country.

With some people (mainly men) you hear this phrase: "We make the money" as if no one else existed or that everyone else should be doing something else in this world to make a living. I don't contain that 'lawyers' run this world anymore than having customers willing to put up with buying their product (which is in this case real estate) any more than all the people who inflate real estate in the end - - and then it has a downturn, because they see it as a way to up their living standard and get rich at the same time. It takes customers and it takes workers, and it always has.
There is no Free Capitalistic Event that makes some people above any others. Without the customers and without the workers, without the protection, without all of it, they simply would see it fall down. There as been books on all of that also -- "War and Peace", even computer games "The Rise and Fall of -- put name of Civilization here" like the Romans, and all the debate that goes on inbetween.

This and the corresponding talky event is nothing more, than anything else that has been discussed in the world before.

That is why I like the term: "Institute of ....... whatever" like the "Institute of Human Origins".

If there is ever a need for a time vehicle, I guess there are reasons to invent the darn thing.

We as the core group are not the World.

But when Microsoft gets their crap together and wants to put on a 15gB OS system on your computer, all I got to say is: Who has the time to actually maintain it -- without looking for some means of artificial intelligence -- or AI. Microsoft thinks that 3-D pretty OS's are actually functional, although they try and pass it off with 'intellisense'. Too bad, my old Visual Studio.NET 2002 takes less time to work with, because I am the intelligence behind its operation, while with the new 'free' one that can be downloaded to use and look at -- their 'intellisense' is bothering IT Professionals into wanting to rename the file in the Folder so it won't be used, because it ties up the computer, and they sit there, and think 'well, that is dumb' and have stated that to Microsoft.

I guess the first lesson is still "Copy and Paste" again seemingly.

------------------------------------------------------
Ah, reality of the future is a question. AOL at the time is not traceable.

http://www.physorg.com/news63371210.html

Professor Predicts Human Time Travel This Century


http://www.nature.com/news/2005/050711/pf/050711-4_pf.html

Gravity Doughnut promises time machine


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heim_theory

The Missed German Scientist

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4357613.stm

Lab fireball 'may be black hole'

http://web.archive.org/web/20010806153244/http://www.artbell.com/letters11.html

http://web.archive.org/web/20010405011723/bbs.artbell.com/forumdisplay.php?forumid=25
http://web.archive.org/web/20010413040811/bbs.artbell.com/showthread.php?threadid=1203&pagenumber=1
(same thread recopied: http://www.anomalies.net/time_traveler/Iamfrom2036.html)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Titor


I guess in the end, it may depend on if anyone actually wants Titor's future, and they are not telling us, or if the scientists are actually going to come up with something about time-travel, or not. It is a debate.

---------------------------------------

That just makes it all simpler.
The hard part is actually coming up with the intelligence to discern the difference.
Well, back to 'pStream (ing) FAssertMsg (messages) to the FDataStreamIFaceBase' or the SDK of the Civilization game. You see, some players are going to add 'intelligence' to the game and make it more than what it was, when it originally came out.

http://dimensionalcitizen.tripod.com/SDKScreen1.html

So all those Scenarios and Mods can come out and be more.

Well, so much for the Chit-Chat for today!
/ttiforum/images/graemlins/yum.gif
 
People already knew John and I were talking back and forth by email.
from the very beginning. It was not a secret.
They have been after the IP address every since.
Thinking they can some how track him down with it.
The only reason why I never revealed it is because I promised him I wouldn't.
It doesn't make me special or anything like that.

I don't have to protect John he is already protected by several things.
If it was up to me to protect John he probably would have been dead long ago. LOL /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif
I am not really all that smart in that area.
John protected himself. I just liked John and I liked talking to him.He was interesting.
I was just at the right place (or wrong place) at the right time.
I guess I did want to protect him back then simply because I liked him alot.
But it really wasn't necessary for me to do so. He never seemed really worried about anything.

If someone else would have offered to post his pictures(no one did)
Then perhaps they would have had several intense conversations with him instead of me.
However I doubt it. I am very curious and I naturally spilled forth hundreds of questions
and he just happened to like answering my questions. What a team. lol
Like I said I am really nobody. I was just there at the time. thats all.

You have to remember something. I have no proof any of this is real either.
If I knew for sure it was real then yes I would be highly secretive and really protective.
I would probably disappear off of the boards completely.
I have doubts to. But the problem is ..I don't know ..so I go back and forth on how I feel.
One minute I think one way and the next I think. "Aww who cares this isn't real anyway.Its
just some kind of science fiction story some guy made up."
If I ever found out he was the real deal I would feel bad I was not more careful in how
I posted I am sure.

See...Here is this guy..you don't know if he was your friend or he conned you.
You don't know if the family is real or a bunch of people pretending to be his family.
You have a different set of feelings if either is true.

It is very confusing to be me! LOL /ttiforum/images/graemlins/confused.gif /ttiforum/images/graemlins/confused.gif

But I have always been one to keep my promise. Maybe he knew that...or maybe he was just a lucky guy.
 
Pamela,
It doesn't make me special or anything like that.
(snip)
I was just at the right place (or wrong place) at the right time.
(snip)
Like I said I am really nobody. I was just there at the time. thats all.
(snip)
One minute I think one way and the next I think. "Aww who cares this isn't real anyway.Its
just some kind of science fiction story some guy made up."
Click to expand...
And yet through all of this, you seem to delight in your part in the story. You seem to project joy in the fact that YOU know John Titor.... only YOU can validate whether someone is really him. Only YOU are the information validator. You will constantly "pop up" to challenge people about either what John said, or what you think his message was.

In essence, it is almost as if John never left, because we have you here to act as his "official" mouthpiece to keep his legend alive.

That leads to one of two possible conclusions:
1) You are a terribly lonely woman, who is just looking for a cause to be a central part of (even if you don't understand the motivations and intentions of those behind the scam)....or
2) You are a member of a group of people playing roles, and you are faithfully playing your role as John's "love interest and confidant"... who can also, happily, act as his Information Validator.

As always....just my opinions, protected by the 1st Amendment.

Does New/Improved Ever STOP you from buying a product?
 
"If he was actually a TT revealing it "now" isn't the issue, is it? The information is still on your computer "then". It will always be on your computer "then" - there's nothing that you can do to change that fact. If his enemies were real and they gain access to time travel (which they will) then they will find a way to get that information from your computer."


I don't have that computer anymore Darby. I have a new computer.
But I do understand what you are saying. yes, it would have been on the computer in the past.
However....Only another time traveler could get that info now AND he would have to be on a worldline
where John appeared.

"As I have said many times - if it was dangerous information then he wasn't using his brain when he "talked" to you online. He didn't consider the consequences of the very technology that he was yacking about."

Do guys EVER use their brains when they are talking to women? LOL
Sigh! Guys are the same in every worldline. /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Actually John never told me any dangerous information.
I think he just liked having someone to talk to actually.
We didn't always talk about time travel.
 
Question, >Would a time TT from the F commune with a web site of T

Answer;_Yes, I feel that this is a real possability.
 
Question: Would a time TT from the F commune with a web site of T

Answer: 1. I think it would depend on if it was part of his mission.
2. If it was something he would be allowed to do on his mission.
3. Perhaps if he had some time to waste before his next jump he
may be tempted to do it for fun to see how people would respond.
 
Well, I really am not replying to anyone, although that is the way one has to post, it seems. Most places have a "Post Reply" or similiar Button to reply on a thread.

I doubt if anyone just wants to say that Professor Mallet is just seeking money for one of his what would or may be termed "crazy" idea about creating time travel.

But I guess that will not be done, although even when the computer game Civilization IV was having a discussion about "Why is America in the game?" kind of discussion and not the "Indians" and all of that Past History, these racial things still come up.

That's why I like the link to "Lucy". Makes anyone wonder what color was here in the beginning, or else perhaps she was "Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds" (say UFO - anyone).

So, what happened between the millions of years ago, and the thousands of years ago, when someone else writes the present article about how all of us are descendants from someone only a few thousands years back. (Enter Project Serpo - they came here before - and all of us are some sort of mutant Spacealien's experiment). I can buy a computer game that came out with that idea a long time ago - in fact some of the first computer games that really caught on - and became "Classic".

Now a few years back, I think I remember somewhere along the way, the the World should speak "English" and all of that "The World will Become One" type thinking. Now it is you can learn several languages and talk to the rest of the world, except most learn English, because they at least think we are funny trying to talk their language, and sounding perhaps really 'stupid' at it.

So for feelings, I guess anyone can have those, but still there is the underlying current that seems to be inherent to all of the whatever -- Life - Universe - Existence -- in the end.

I can feel that waya about events also lately in my life -- like what happened I did not expect to happen -- and anyone can feel any which way about a job search.

But we all are talking about "Time" but how conveniently it seems that nothing should take "Any Time" to learn -- meaning learning several languages - several different programming languages - several different of anything -- and how most people won't say it -- but you do know somewhat what they think -- and that -- anything can be "said" but the future will be determined by many other factors just than by what one person says.

It also could be another AI axiom perhaps:

Any time that someone says that "Humans should think a certain way" it is probably most assured that "Humans will not think that way" just because someone else said it, and after thinking about it --- it all became weird. (or perhaps it is just the area where I live, perhaps not.)

Now, back to the job search, and the Ying and Yang of collecting 'money' because still people need it to live.

Any rich ladies out there?

All I get here, is that -- since I am a "man", I can work for a living -- taking orders from others.

Well, in a couple of months, I can 'retire' on almost nothing, and really come out with some programming wizard type stuff - given enough time. But right now, I have to do something else again, because -- laws being what they are -- seemingly seem to be invented by people who had nothing else on their mind when those laws were Passed, and put into Existence, as if those laws should have a 'life' of their own. Whoa! wait till the computer programs (games or such) come out about all of this stuff. You see, they still can not 'program' and that may make it seem 'equal' in the end. (Of course, they will want to pass more laws - about what should be allowed in a game like less violence and such, but that is all it can come to -- more complaining.)

I wonder what 'Time' has to do with all of that kind of stuff. I guess -- it's more -- about Age, than about anything else.

But then again, the N. Korean Dictator was condemned for his recent actions. Well, at least he did not put up with my response on what would have happened since he had done that. Of course, again, we applying the diplomat game on the situation -- but again that's why he was condemned -- not that many people -- liked his actions. Well, back to work again, something, that a person will perhaps get used to -- someday -- perhaps. But I think the world is changing too fast for younger people, and that 'feel' also, so the days of slapping someone on the hand with a ruler, may be over.

Might as well wish that being in and on a different world could really happen.

/ttiforum/images/graemlins/yum.gif

/ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
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