The Other John

Here's an interesting story about a man who time traveled.
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Allegedly.

He met his older self in some kind of time warp, and he videotaped it.
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Allegedly.

People who believe in Time Travel these days are ridiculed, unless they're a physicist or scientist
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Not true. There are many physicists or scientists who believe time travel is possible, and they are ridiculed. Dr. Ronald Mallett is one of them. Because much like you, scientists and physicists are still real people and real people are subject to wanting to believe something is true. The difference is that those scientists and physicists who believe will at least attempt to follow a scientific process for deriving their beliefs into testable theories which can be falsified. The "ridicule" that follows this is very much a professional activity of pointing out errors in the structure of a theory or the premises upon which it is based. All scientists (and physicists are scientists) must understand that their theories must be falsifiable, otherwise they are not "doing science."

However, your beliefs, as stated in this thread, are based wholly on what you wish were true, and in many cases are based upon completely unfalsifiable premises (i.e. infinite worldlines, where anything can happen). Rather than trying to support your beliefs with unfalsifiable premises, it can actually aid your cause if you openly consider how your beliefs can be falsified, rather than "proven correct." Because when you start to think in this manner, you will be able to develop testable theories. And when something becomes testable (and thus able to be falsified) there is also a possibility that it can be confirmed as truth.

It may sound crazy, but it is actually very scientific: Try to think of ways that you can FALSIFY that "John Titor" was a time traveler, and you will actually be working to understand scientific means for perhaps showing how time travel MAY be possible.

RMT
 
But Rainman, I thought you didn't BELIEVE that physical timetravel was possible. ???
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Incorrect. I never said that. Rather, if you were to correctly relate what I have said on this you would know that I established the scientific basis (the theory) behind why it is my belief that physical time travel will not manifest in the manner portrayed in science fiction stories, like Titor's. The basis of the theory is energy, and the fact that mass, space, and time are only approximations of energy.

In fact, we already know that you cannot travel through "time" only. It is impossible to travel through space without traveling through time as well, hence the reverse is also true.

RMT
 
There are many physicists or scientists who believe time travel is possible, and they are ridiculed. Dr. Ronald Mallett is one of them.
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Dr. Mallett is "ridiculed" for a host of legitimate reasons. First, and foremost, he initially published his university sponsored and paid for "findings" in a pop-sci forum for his personal purposes rather than in a peer reviewed publication. That both surprised and embarassed the university. He doesn't own the research. The people of the State of Connecticutt own the research.

Second, when he finally published his findings in a professional journal he chose to do so in an obscure French journal that no one reads. If his findings were so important why publish in an obscure journal?

Third, his research findings were ultimately reviewed by his general peers and found seriously wanting. Since his initial publication he has never answered the criticism.

The bottom line is that his research has never found any support other than on the Internet at sites like this. He's a well educated kook in this regard.
 
" All I can say is my side is hurting from laughing so hard. This has got to be some of the funniest stuff I have read in a while, not because I find the post humorous in a funny way, but because there are people who seem to actualy believe what they are writing. How in the world could you possibly believe this nonsense?? "


What gets me is that it has long since been PROVEN that JT is a hoax. His 'time machine' is a scientific impossibility. Fact. That seems to go 'woosh' right over the heads of the believers.....and all the latest people like everaftergirl who jump on the bandwaggon for their 5 minutes of infamy.

Pamela tries to persuade me that 'nobody is trying to convince you of anything'....but hey....I don't see the post in which Pamela concedes that JT is a hoax.
 
I am not trying to convince you or persuade you at all. I simply posted a link that I found about john and talked about it. I simply presented facts. I believe everyone has their own mind to make their own decision and no one has the right to force someone to think only their way or only believe what they believe.
 
But you see, Pamela, half the reason why you are often considered to be 'part' of Group Titor is that your attitude on the whole story shifts by the minute......yet it's quite aparent that there's an underlying motive of wanting people to 'believe', or at least take more than a passing interest.

Any number of facts demonstrate that Titor was a hoax. That is not conjecture or 'opinion'....that is cold hard scientific fact. To 'believe', one has to totally ignore all those facts.

Believing something that is not yet proven is one thing. I have such beliefs myself, such as life after death, and a belief that UFOs may well be alien craft. HOWEVER, I would find it absurd to believe something that I KNOW is false. What conceivable basis is there for 'believing' something that is as DEMONSTRABLY false as 2 + 2 = 5 ?

The Titor hoax is interesting and entertaining as a hoax. But of course, that is something you have never conceded that it is.....and I doubt ever will despite even such things as the sheer impossibility of Titor getting a million ton mini black hole onto the back seat of a Chevy ( an issue I note you have never resoponded to ).

The difference between me and you is.....I believe things because of the evidence. You appear to believe things despite the evidence.
 
Here's an interesting story about a man who time traveled. He met his older self in some kind of time warp, and he videotaped it.
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Oh My God ! It's on the internet....and has a Utube video too ! That means, it MUST be true !
 
No, especially not if you take the context of the original story into account. According to the original story it isn't possible for the "original" Titor to return here or even to his original reality. And the yak about "divergence 1.941" - which must be what the numbers in the table refer to - What's that supposed to mean?
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The whole ' I cannot return to this timeline ' malarkey is a great excuse for disappearing, but alas is scientifically just not true. Now I'm not arguing that multiple timelines exist, but IF they did, they would have to follow the laws of logic.

Logic dictates, that once you leave this timeline for another one, then this timeline is nothing 'special'. It's just another timeline, in a sea of timelines. It does not have some bizzare ' no entry' sign on it. Why should it ? There really is NO reason.....other than as a great excuse for a hoaxer disappearing.

As for the 1.941 'divergence'....what nonsense. Leaving aside the question of what this is actually divergence of ( just the world ? The solar system ? The entire universe ? ).....the notion that some piddling little device could even measure the position and momentum of all 10^30 atoms in a scientific lab ( let alone the whole world, solar system, or universe ) is frankly LAUGHABLE given that :-

1) The Heisenburg Uncertainty Principle makes such measurement impossible.

2) It is impossible to measure the position/momentum of 10^30 atoms without emmitting at least 10^30 photons and having some device to measure the response of each one within trillionths of a second........and your photons then ALTER the very thing they are measuring !!

3) Scale this up even to The World ( and surely divergence is only really meaningful at a huge scale such as the universe as a whole ).....and you're talking IMPOSSIBLE. I mean come off it ! A device that can measure the position and momentum of every single atom in the world ??? And then miraculously ( this makes water into wine look easy ) calculate for quadrillions of atoms even the tiniest little deviation in position ? And all within seconds at the touch of a button ?

4) Not to mention that the energy required to make this measurement would blow half of Florida off the map.

Lol !
 
Well if you had a life after death experience only you would know because there is noway to prove such a thing to people. There are a lot of "experts" highly distinguished in their fields that would give you all kinds of scientific proof thatthere is no life after death but once you experience it yourself their explanations wouldnt mean much to you.
 
Whatever? Apparently some people do not know what quantum computer could do? But this is just as reply on the continuing Titor Saga.

If things get dicy, then you can learn how to "Dodge the Bullet" (or watch the movie 'Remo Williams, the Adventure Begins' or something like that if you can find it.) In the movie corrupt corporations taking advantage of big government contract awards and stalling or not even doing what they should and being crooked, then enters a secret organization that deals with such problems.

Dodge the Bullet:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vh4Kx9IqIZw

learn how to balance and run on the edge of top of tall buildings and also go through a series of balancing acts running on a beam then to other things like posts that get taller and smaller posts where you balance on one foot and jump to reach the next until you reach the upper loft where you sleep. Then also you run on the beach, and dive in a large pile of sand and come out the top, all for the training.

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=chiun+remo&search_type=&aq=1&oq="Chiun"

you do isometrics training also or come up with something new, I guess.

But according to JohnTitor.com, it seems they will be working on black holes no matter where it leads them.

/ttiforum/images/graemlins/yum.gif
Dodge the Bullets
 
Well if you had a life after death experience only you would know because there is noway to prove such a thing to people. There are a lot of "experts" highly distinguished in their fields that would give you all kinds of scientific proof thatthere is no life after death but once you experience it yourself their explanations wouldnt mean much to you.
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That's a good analogy and very true.
 
Hey everaftergirl, bought "the time travelers wife" on dvd today. I love that movie. I think I must have every time travel movie that has come out on dvd. Lol
 
Well if you had a life after death experience only you would know because there is noway to prove such a thing to people. There are a lot of "experts" highly distinguished in their fields that would give you all kinds of scientific proof thatthere is no life after death but once you experience it yourself their explanations wouldnt mean much to you.
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Well no.....nobody has ever provided a scientific proof that there is no life after death, and I'm not sure such a proof is even possible. So my guess is that the matter will always be open to 'belief'.

On the other hand, one CAN categorically state that John Titor's 'time machine' does not and cannot work. One can state this with the same level of certainty with which one can state that pigs cannot fly. That leaves absolutely no room for belief. Nope.....there isn't even the tiniest, minisculest, microscopic room for 'maybe..just maybe'.

Well...if people want to believe in flying pigs, I guess that is up to them.
 
Hey everaftergirl, bought "the time travelers wife" on dvd today.
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Cool! I'm anxious to see it. I've been waiting for it to come out on DVD. It's not here yet, but soon. I have several TT movies too. /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif Do you have "Primer"?
 
Well...if people want to believe in flying pigs, I guess that is up to them.
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We who work our aerodynamic magic can even coax swines to fly! :D

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RMT
 
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