Open your eyes!

Revlations is garbage. Written by one of the "pigs" (to use the man jesus' term for roman cops), it has no relevance to the events of reality. If you remeber the old days before the romans killed all the teachers burned the gospels and founded the current idea of christianity we talked about a time in the long ago when the leaders of the tribes met and the staffs were put in a box and the true staff grew leaves on it. The box was a time machine folks.

This is what the teacher says:

Yeah, listen to the lyrics
We are the ones prophesized to return
My main concern is for all of you to learn
How to live, yes through the lyrics I give and send my friend
This age is coming to an end
Not the world, but the age is ending
Ending, listen to the astrological message I'm sending
I'm sending, tell em
Truth is truth, whether or not you like me
We are living now in the age of Pisces
When Pisces is over, at the year two thousand
When the Sun of God, changes his house and
enters the Age of Aquarius
The Sun of God as man is hilarious (okay)
When you think of Jesus, think of the Sun
The flaming Sun, that's where they stole this concept from
Stop believing and read your bible logically
The new testament is really old astrology
Jesus is the son of God no lie
But they might be talking about the Sun up in the sky
The Sun, that hangs on the cross of the zodiac
The zodiac with twelve signs to be exact
Each sign is a house, and you should keep in mind
Each house equals, a period of time
The time, two thousand years and that's a fact
It's called an age or a house in the zodiac
The twelve disciples, are twelve months of reason
The four gospels signify the four seasons
When Jesus fed the multitude with two fishes
It signified the Age of Pisces, not fish or dishes
If you read the bible astrologically it's clearer (no doubt)
The next age will be the age of the water-bearer
It's called the Age of Aquarius (word)
When logic and truth will take care of us
So in this age, of spiritual dignity
You'll see a rise in femininity
and creativity, meshed with masculinity
You got to get with me, this is your true her-story (rrryyy!)
Do you wanna go higher...
 
Good God... Look at this.

I don´t believe, as you, that there´s enough proof that Titor is a Time Traveller, BUT it does not mean it isn´t possible. Now:

"When you time travel to the past, you're actually playing God because you're bringing people back to life, taking their souls away from Heaven or Hell so that they are living again."

NO [censored]! Really?? What about "That which is has already been, and what is to be has already been; and God requires an account of what is past." Eccl 3:15

What about parallel dimensions? What about a parallel dimension, where time does not exists, outside linear time? "Heaven"? People are not comming back to life. At Gods point of view, or better, outside the "linear time" dimension, everything is already history.

Well, to believe that, you must believe in linear time and a "end of time". But if you are a Christian, there´s no problem to believe in it.


If you need more info in this subject and other, pay a visit to www.echoesofenoch.com
 
BringerOfTruth,


In response to:
“Let me start off from a religious stand-point. I'm a full believer in a loving, caring, all-mighty God that has sent His son down to earth so that we may be saved. And once we die, we immediatly go either to Heaven or to Hell (keep this in mind”

I think you should change your name, and quickly sign up with the inquisition or perhaps the Christian coalition.

Listen, god did not create the world/universe in seven days, all humans do not derive from Adam and Eve, there is no heaven or hell just state of mind, we are not the only intelligent species in the universe, and it is possible to travel in time.

This is not to say John Titor is a real time traveler or people are getting anal probes from little green men. It’s just simple common sense….oh yea, the world is not flat either nor does it sit upon tortes.


PS: I didn’t read past that sentence and I am sorry if it seems that I am being curt with you.
 
From Chuck Colson:

To paraphrase the opening of a popular ESPN show, these four things everyone knows are true: Before Columbus’s first voyage, people thought the world was flat. When Copernicus wrote that the Earth revolved around the Sun, his conclusions came out of nowhere. The “scientific revolution” of the seventeenth century invented science as we know it. And the false beliefs and impediments to science are Christianity’s fault.

There’s just one problem: All four statements are false.

As Rodney Stark writes in his new book, For the Glory of God, “every educated person” of Columbus’s time, especially Christian clergy, “knew the earth was round.” More than 800 years before Columbus’s voyage, Bede, the church historian, taught this, as did Hildegard of Bingen and Thomas Aquinas. The title of the most popular medieval text on astronomy was Sphere, not exactly what you would call a book that said the earth was flat.

As for Copernicus’s sudden flash of insight, Stark quotes the eminent historian L. Bernard Cohen who called that idea “an invention of later historians.” Copernicus “was taught the essential fundamentals leading to his model by his Scholastic professors”—that is, Christian scholars.

That model was “developed gradually by a succession of . . . Scholastic scientists over the previous two centuries.” Building upon their work on orbital mechanics, Copernicus added the “implicit next step.”

Thus, the idea that science was invented in the seventeenth century, “when a weakened Christianity could no longer prevent it,” as it is said, is false. Long before the famed physicist Isaac Newton, clergy like John of Sacrobosco, the author of Sphere, were doing what can be only called science. The Scholastics—Christians—not the Enlightenment, invented modern science.

Three hundred years before Newton, a Scholastic cleric named Jean Buridan anticipated Newton’s First Law of Motion, that a body in motion will stay in motion unless otherwise impeded. It was Buridan, not an Enlightenment luminary, who first proposed that Earth turns on its axis.

In Stark’s words, “Christian theology was necessary for the rise of science.” Science only happened in areas whose worldview was shaped by Christianity, that is, Europe. Many civilizations had alchemy; only Europe developed chemistry. Likewise, astrology was practiced everywhere, but only in Europe did it become astronomy.

That’s because Christianity depicted God as a “rational, responsive, dependable, and omnipotent being” who created a universe with a “rational, lawful, stable” structure. These beliefs uniquely led to “faith in the possibility of science.”

So why the Columbus myth? Because, as Stark writes, “the claim of an inevitable and bitter warfare between religion and science has, for more than three centuries, been the primary polemical device used in the atheist attack of faith.” Opponents of Christianity have used bogus accounts like the ones I’ve mentioned not only to discredit Christianity, but also to position themselves as “liberators” of the human mind and spirit.

It’s up to us to set the record straight, and Stark’s book is a great place to start. I think it’s time to tell our neighbors that what everyone knows about Christianity and science is just plain wrong.
 
TT0 #2,

ok, sense (sic) when did science become a religious thing anyway's?
Click to expand...

Well...we do remember Galileo's 1633 trial for heresy before the Office of the Inquisition for challenging Copernican geocentricity, don't we?

I seem to recall a sentence of ex-communication, house arrest for life and his books and the transcript of his testimony before the Grand Inquisitor were banned by the Holy Office.

About four-hundred years later he received an apology for the error.
 
"So why the Columbus myth? Because, as Stark writes, “the claim of an inevitable and bitter warfare between religion and science has, for more than three centuries, been the primary polemical device used in the atheist attack of faith.” Opponents of Christianity have used bogus accounts like the ones I’ve mentioned not only to discredit Christianity, but also to position themselves as “liberators” of the human mind and spirit."

Last I checked Christianity isn't the only religion. I also don't consider science as a "atheist attack of faith." It seems to be religion attacking science most of the time.

I certainly beleive in a higher law but I don't beleive I need to contribute 20% to be on the favorable side of that law.
 
I agree. It is true that science ignores God, and tries to eliminate any spiritual contribution in experiments by striving for consistancy, but it does not do this on purpose, and it does not accept or deny any spiritual powers. I believe that scientific experiments show the conservation of energy, and whatever requires the least amount of energy will be the most probable outcome of any experiment. This makes science a powerful tool even for those with tremendous spiritual power that may be able to make anything they see fit occur without science (making the assumption that everyone has this latent power). Science produces predictable results in a predictable period of time, whereas spiritual powers are unpredictable and require substantially more energy. A spiritually powerful person should therefore desire to be as knowledgeable of science as possible to conserve their power. The only reason why they would have a problem with men of science is because the logical mind tends to ignore spiritual power, and therefore, the God behind it. This is not to say that scientists are athiests, but that the belief in God is completely subconscious when doing scientific experiments.
 
I find it much more likely that time travel will one day become possible, than that your God exists. I do have respect for people who believe in the Bible, in Jezus, or in any form of religion, but science has already shown us that the Bible is false, in that way that the Bible is NOT to be taken litterly. Earth was NOT created in seven days by God, God did NOT send Jezus to earth to save our souls. None of what the Bible says has actually ever really happened. Does this mean that there can be no God? No, science cannot prove or disprove the existance of a God, at least not with the current scientific knowledge. It is possible that there is something out there that you could call "God", but the problem is that there are so many definitions of a God, so how can you go and prove or disprove the existance of a God? So, science cannot prove or disprove the existance of "a" God, at least not today, but it can, and has, proven that the religions that mankind knows, like catholicism, buddhism, the islam etc. are created by humans themselves. So you could say I am something between an agnost and an atheist: agnost in that way that I don't exclude the existance of "a" God, a "higher" power, but if something like that does exist, than it is something completely different than what mankind has made of it. And I am an atheist when it comes to the Gods that are created by religions like catholicism, islam, buddhism,... Gods like that don't exist.

And the John Titor story: off course that story is a bunch of crap, but that is no prove that time travel is impossible. Time travel could be impossible, but it could also become reality one day, we just don't know. And for the rest, I suggest you open YOUR eyes. For much too long time, people have been mistreated by church in the name of God. That has to end. And we're getting there, but it seems there are still people that have stayed stuck in the middle ages. WAKE UP EVERYBODY!!
 
I hate when religion goes into science. Personnaly. I'm a believer but I do believe in TT and parallel universes/multipule universes and stuff like that. Does that make me less a believer? No. One question to the believers. Do you dissmiss the fact that TT is not possible because of your religion or your beliefs? I want to know. You don't have to be bound by rules so much. Your not being asked to steal or murder or do something bad but only open your eyes. Religion covers a cloak above your eyes. But it doesn't have to.

Green_slash, The Golden King of Avalon, King_Takeover.
 
What is up with you people and bringing god into everything???

I've never heard of an "act of god" out side of the bible. Please provide examples that cannot have a scientific explaination. And no crying statues, they've already decided this was not a AOG

He didn't help the jews during WWII, he didn't stop 911, he didn't stop the romans from killing a all those christains (or catholics I can't keep track anymore), to my recolection he has never done anything at all, unless you belive he created the universe and all that stuff.

Don't misunderstand me or anything, I think jesus was cool and he helped alot of people who wanted to be help, but then again so did Satan. Religon today is very one sided, god=good, Satan=Bad.

I'ts all lies, if they're the supreme beings they cannot be god or evil if there is no one to answer to for their actions, or judge the way they do things.

Time travel has nothing to do with religon, if anything it would help religon. Don't you think there would be more faith if you could go back and talk to jesus?
 
You CANNOT time travel. It's impossible!
Click to expand...

As long as it's possible for a NON-EXISTENT, so called higher power to create earth, heaven and the stars within seven days ANYTHING is possible.

I don't believe in god OR timetravel until I've seen some scientific proof of either. To be honest, timetravel sounds more probable to me.

That picture looks like it was taken back when digital cameras first came out around 2000 with low mega-pixels.
Click to expand...

So... lets assume I have a digital camera from 2036 with a 2.5 Gazillion Megapixel CCD... How would you proceed with downloading the timemachine.xzyff file from the camera to a computer in 2004 without getting an error like "Drive is full. Unable to copy timemachine.xzyff (1,7 TB)". Oh... probably by using the built in 802.99 Z wireless interface? Sure, it is very well possible that such a camera is backwards compatible with older technology, but it's probably easier to use a contemporary digital camera, don't you think?


Okay, that's about it... I guess I'll go wait until god strikes upon me with great vengeance for the things I just said. Oh.. no... wait... I have better things to do /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Roel
 
He could have stopped other things you don't know about like The plane that crashed in the field on 911 maybe it was going somewhere big and that would have cost the lives of the people on the plane and the ground plus more damage. Just because you can't see doesn't mean it's not there.
 
He could have stopped other things you don't know about like The plane that crashed in the field on 911 maybe it was going somewhere big and that would have cost the lives of the people on the plane and the ground plus more damage. Just because you can't see doesn't mean it's not there.
Click to expand...

But he just left the other planes to crash into buildings, kill thousands of people and cause massive amounts of damage. What a great guy - actually that might explain things. If god is a HE, apparently us men can't multitask properly...so he could only stop one plane...
 
I'm not using God's name in vain, but as a christian I deem fit to answer your explanations. Apparently, God has really no business in science and human arguements. In the bible, it states that all who believe and have faith in him would go to heaven. It means a freedom of choice, it's up to you to choose at all. What he does we cannot explain, we may never find out. Such things are incomprehensible by human standards. Since we do not grasp a full understand of the universe or god, we cannot say and proclaim as we deem fit. Yes, I make mistakes. We all believe what we have faith in, no one is right or wrong until the end. So by saying that, I'm trying to tell you that no one can be sure that we are 100% right or jus purely wrong.

As for cyberjunk, how can we define 7 days in the bible. 7 days in the bible could mean billions of years, or 7 days could simplify the processes that was made so we could understand his word. Can you prove that Jesus didn't come? It seems like historical records did not fool it. Remember, christianity was widespread and the bible was written in several different languages accounting to the same events written by different people and compiled. As I've said I may be wrong, but I believe in what I have faith in.

There is an explanation for everything. Only when we know everything then can we say we are 100% correct and do not err.

JT said, it was up to us to believe. He didn't coerce us or tried to prove anything. I myself believe time travel can be possible, but I'm still a christian.

people should look up into the word religion and the meaning of science. God obviously is a higher being than us, we do not understand his origin or his form, possibly never comprehensible by us. He has handed us a gift which is the bible, he gave us a choice. it's all up to you really, you can choose to believe it.or not.period.
 
Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes.
 
Well, Nicknack, we shouldn't be having a discussion about God on a time travel forum, but since we are, I have a few more remarks.

OK, I can't prove that Jezus didn't come to earth, I just don't believe that he existed, or when he did, that he was the son of God. Another reason why I don't believe in the God of the christians, is,... why don't we see him? Why doesn't he come to Earth? He doesn't seem to care about the life that he created. And there is a lot of pain and unhappiness in this world. It doesn't make sence to me that if God created Earth, that he wouldn't have the power to put and end to everything that is going wrong in the world. That just doesn't make any sence to me. And frankly, I don't want to have anything to do with a God that is so sadistic, a God who is letting people suffer without doing anything about it. Even if the Christian God would exist, than I don't understand what christians like about a God that doesn't seem to care about mankind and lets people having to deal with pain, illness, hunger, war, etc. etc. Personally I dislike a God like that very much. But it is possible that there is a higher power that you could call God. I don't want to exclude the possibility. But I just think that if a higher power, a "God" exists, that it is something completely different than what mankind and all the religions that we know, have made of it. And in that case I wouldn't think of God as a person that rewards the good ones after our death and punishes the bad ones, but rather as something.
 
cyberjunk:

He doesn't seem to care about the life that he created.
Click to expand...

That's exactly what I think. If there even is a remote possibility that a higher power does exist, then why are so many innocent people suffering in this world. It just doesn't make sense.

Furthermore, I often wonder why religious people find it easy to believe that a god suddenly appeared out of nowhere and at the same time refuse to accept other (more plausible) theories about how the universe began and evolved.

nicknack:

In the bible, it states...
Click to expand...

The bible is a book full of contradictions. I can't imagine people base their entire believe on a book that's so badly written that the author was afraid to put his name on the cover. It's the worst fairytale ever. :-)


Just for the record: although I may express myself in a somewhat arrogant manner, I do respect everyone's believes. Please don't feel offended by any of my post.

Roel
 
BringerofTruth,

Your ignorance amazes me. When we die we do not go to either heaven or hell, if this was the case then there would be no need for Jesus's second comeing. He will come to judge the world, thus the dead will rise i.e. revalations 20. The place where we go instead is Sheol aka Abrahams Bosom. This is the place where Lazarus was and also the place where Jesus said the thief would go to. Jesus says "Today you will join me in Paradise" he doesn't say heaven. Cross reference the word paradise and the use of it in that sentence and you will see it's not referring to heaven. Jesus said Himself "I will go to make a place for you" thus referring to heaven, further meaning that before Jesus there was no heaven. Now why did God send Jesus, because man had fallen out of grace with God and that was His last ditch effort to save His creation. When man messed up the first time what did God do? He destroyed the earth with water. So when man messed up again he didn't destroy the earth, hence the promise of the rainbow, instead He gave us His son so that if we believed in Him He'd save us and then destroy the earth with fire. Therefore, before Jesus there was no need for Heaven becuase man had not yet fallen out of God's grace.

Please forgive me becuase I know this has nothing to do with Time Travel, though I do believe it could be possible, but I simply had to comment.
 
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