Roel, Roel, you have misunderstood the meaning of my posts. Let me re-direct you into my meaning.
I think it's the otherway around buddy /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif
So by saying if we make mistakes, we are continually progressing? What about let's say a perfect person like God. Does he progress? What do you think?
I'm not saying that, but mistakes help us to understand things better. However, if you make the same mistake over and over again, there's no progress. You say he's perfect, yet he managed to create something imperfect. No matter how you look at it, god made a mistake somewhere along the line. Giving us choice was onviously a bad idea. So from that perspective god can't possibly be perfect. And no, he's not making progress, his creation is still a mess.
No offense, but you are human and being a human you are full of flaws, like me and everyone else here.
In addition to what I said in the last paragraph; god created us to his own image. So I'll be happy to admit I have flaws, but so does god if he extists. I can't say I've read the whole bible, just the contradictory and historically flawed parts.
God didn't force the people to love him. He gave them a choice.
I never claimed that god forced the people to love him. You made me god for a day and asked me if I wanted the people to love or to hate me. If were a perfect god and I wanted the people to love me I'd make them love me.
It was up to them, what I'm actually doing is trying to convince you God is real. It doesn't matter which God. But there is someone up there watching you.
You can say god exists as many times as you want, but I'll claim the exact opposite every time. I don't believe there is someone watching over us. I don't believe in a creator.
So why do innocents suffer you ask, I beg your pardon, I have answered this in several posts but you have not managed to read or understand my explanation.
I thought I was the only one getting tired of repeating the same thing over and over again. You tried to answer my question, but your answer was unsatisfactory. You keep saying I want god to solve things for me, but I'll say it one more time:
I don't believe in god, therefore I don't expect him to solve things. In my opinion people should take their own responsibility. I know "we suffer because of our mistakes", but I don't see why innocent, godloving people should be the victim of that. Why doesn't god make people like me suffer, instead of those who support him.
So if god made the universe, does he come from stardust no.
Then where DID he come from. Scientists are constantly trying to find out how it all began, in contrast to people who believe in god and just unthinkingly accept that god was always here. So I ask you again: Where did god come from?
Why did dinosaurs exist, did it just come out of the blue?
No, dinosaurs did not come out of the blue. They evolved from more primitive creatures. Which reminds me, why is there no mention of dinosaurs in the bible? Dinosaurs became extinct long before man evolved, yet the bible states that humans existed from the beginning of the creation.
Oh, so you believe you should not be blamed for other's mistakes?
That's right. If you kill someone, why should I take the blame for it. More strongly still, you can read in the bible that "sons shall not be punished for the sins of their fathers". If you can't be punished for the sins of your father, how the hell can you be punished for anyone elses sins?
How do you not know you're not suffering? Are you in some world with no sickness, no death no sadness? Do you know get minor physical injuries, setbacks, stress and guilt or a conscience I dare ask?
I live in a world with sickness, death and sadness. Yet in this world, I'm living a happy life. I do not suffer in person. Those things you name are merely inconvenient. People in Somalia, Ethiopia, Sudan and the likes suffer. I see no reason for god to let these people suffer. They did nothing wrong and since god is said to be omnipotent he should be able to do something about it.
From what I think, skeptics will ignore it as a blatant lie!
If he comes down in person to heal billions, I'd drop down on my knees and devote the rest of my life to god-almighty. But since he did nothing of the kind, I see no reason to believe in him, let alone worship him.
There is evidence, except you expect people to show it to you?
Well, yes! If people want me to start believing, they will have to show me some evidence. I have no need for a religion, so why should I go to a church pastor for evidence that I think is non-existent in the first place? Some of my friends are christian though, but they haven't been able to provide me with any evidence whatsoever. But you say there's evidence... I can't think of any reason why you shouldn't show it to me?
...its the book god has handed over to us to refer from, so we might understand his ways and his salvation.
Yeah, some book he gave you! Since you read the bible you must have noticed all the inconsistancies, contradictions and historical flaws. If god is so perfect, why didn't he just provide us with a perfect bible? One that everyone can understand.
I do not wish to offend you. But I believe in god and I pray for you that one day you might be englightened and know him. God bless you Roel.
I do not wish to offend you either. You're a good person, we just don't share the same vision. Alllow me to speak freely: I think that, in a way, you feel sorry for me, because I'm not enlightened and do not know god. You feel that way because you are confident that what you believe is the truth. Yet you do not realize that I am just as confident in my own believes as you are. I don't believe in god and I never will, therefore your prayers are not very well spent. I thank you nonetheless and I can only hope that someday you'll at least think about if what you believe in is indeed the truth.
Roel
