magnetic propulsion system.

we repave roads every few years anyways, so why not? repave a road every few years? or pave it once and never look back? sounds purdy practical to me.
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Nope. It is way WAY more complex than simply repaving. It is nothing short of turning roadways (all of them, in order to support such a vehicle) into a complex network conduit with LOTS more parts and power flowing through them, etc. Indeed, paving would be right out! In place of paving you would have to have metal sheets that would act to conduct electricity over the entire road surface. Then, of course, the electricity has to come from somewhere...so you would need transformers and rectifier components to now be part of the road. Huge, huge, massive rework that would costs oodles of dollars. With minimal buyback simply because it would not be the "flying car" that most people envision as the next big step to free us from the roads and solve traffic problems. And if the corporations cannot make money building them, then as Adam Smith taught us: No one will build them.

It is one of those engineering things. Once you take all the things into account that would have to change, you start to see just how cost prohibitive it would be. I know you don't like to hear that, but that is why MagLevs will always only be confined to "railroad track" kind of setups, rather than general roads that go everywhere.

RMT
 
"In place of paving you would have to have metal sheets that would act to conduct electricity over the entire road surface."

no you wouldnt, you'd have earth magnet roads. neodymium, strontium, etc.

"And if the corporations cannot make money building them, then as Adam Smith taught us: No one will build them."

thats true, but in the future, when folks cant breathe from smog, folks wont care so much about money then. its not a moneymaking idea for sure, but it is one of the best available options that we dont use. tells alot about the world and its leaders.

" I know you don't like to hear that, but that is why MagLevs will always only be confined to "railroad track" kind of setups, rather than general roads that go everywhere."

we shall see if that holds up in the future. /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif

i'd bet just about every person in the world would want to buy one of these cars, thats an awful lot of money...

especially when they hear of the safety benefits. when you'd grab that emergency brake, itd really stop. /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
RMT:

Thanks for your input. I will take a look at his work. On the DC I ment for that to be a DC signal. I will admit I could of drawn it to look more like a real oscilloscope with a point of reference and a time reference.
 
no you wouldnt, you'd have earth magnet roads. neodymium, strontium, etc.
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Well, yeah, you could do it that way. But in doing so you have made the road extremely expensive. I mean gold-paved might be cheaper! /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif But the bigger issue is whether there would be enough neodymium or strontium on earth to pave even all the roads in the US. These are the practical issues that scientists usually do not spend time thinking about, but engineers do because it is not just about "yes, we can do it" but "is it economically feasible to do it?"

thats true, but in the future, when folks cant breathe from smog
Click to expand...

Expensive MagLev schemes are not the only way to fix the smog problem. Look at Los Angeles. When I first came here in the early 80s the smog was awful. Laws were passed that put California at the forefront of reducing auto emissions. Now all the smog controls that come on a car sold in any US state are standard. They used to be required only in CA. The air in LA is MUCH MUCH better these days! VERY few "stage 3 smog alerts" in any summer, which was not the case in the 80s. Also, did I tell you about my primary commute vehicle? It is a Honda Civic GX. The "G" stands for "Gas" as in "Natural Gas". It is actually the cleanest vehicle on the road...the exhuast from it is literally cleaner than the SoCal air it ingests!! Not to mention that I pay the equivalent of about $1.40 per gallon!! TWO benefits! /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif

but it is one of the best available options that we dont use
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Can you back that up with evidence and analysis? Because clearly it is not since I just mentioned an option (the Honda GX) which does not require any modification to the roadways. How is your effort going to get into school, ruthless? Once you start loading-up on the engineering courses you will also have to take a course or two in engineering economics. That is what will help you evaluate, just because you CAN do something, whether or not it makes financial sense to do it full-scale. For example: We COULD build a single-stage-to-orbit launch vehicle. It is technically possible. But the cost as compared to a staged vehicle (like the shuttle or the Delta and Atlas rockets) would be enormous. Hence why you do not see anyone trying to do it...they would not have customers because the customer would rather pay less for a staged vehicle to get their payload into space.

i'd bet just about every person in the world would want to buy one of these cars, thats an awful lot of money...
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True, but it depends upon how much it would cost, and if enough people would want to buy it such that a company would take the risk and be able to make a profit. If a company cannot make a profit (or at least break even and pay their employees) there is no incentive to take the risk and do the work.

especially when they hear of the safety benefits. when you'd grab that emergency brake, itd really stop.
Click to expand...

True, that is one of the points in favor of this idea. But you would still have to show a "Return On Investment" (ROI). It is the only way an engineering project can get green-lighted because nobody is going to throw their money down a hole unless at least a meager profit can be made.

RMT
 
"Well, yeah, you could do it that way. But in doing so you have made the road extremely expensive."

not true. the way we are doing things now is much more expensive. much much more. magnets are pretty cheap actually. especially strontium.

people nowadays have to pay taxes for roads and road maintenence, so things would be no different. the money to build the roads would come from the same place it always has.

"But the bigger issue is whether there would be enough neodymium or strontium on earth to pave even all the roads in the US."

the cool thing about that is, any magnetic material can be used to build the roads. theres more than plenty magnetic material around to repave every road in the world.


"Expensive MagLev schemes are not the only way to fix the smog problem."

nope, not the only way, but sure is the best way in my opinion.


"It is actually the cleanest vehicle on the road...the exhuast from it is literally cleaner than the SoCal air it ingests!! Not to mention that I pay the equivalent of about $1.40 per gallon!! "

heh. imagine a car that costs $0.00 per gallon, has no emissions, and never needs a tuneup. $1.40 per gallon is nice and all, but no matter the cost of the vehicle, it will eventually pay for itself, much like the solar panels on your home.

"Can you back that up with evidence and analysis?"

yes i can. would you like me to bombard several links?

so your suggestion is once we use up all the oil, lets use up all the natural gas? what then? people will be forced to decide on an alternative. alternatives that have the lowest maintenence cost will then win.

"How is your effort going to get into school, ruthless?"

ill be moving onto the msu campus soon.


"Once you start loading-up on the engineering courses you will also have to take a course or two in engineering economics. That is what will help you evaluate, just because you CAN do something, whether or not it makes financial sense to do it full-scale."

heh. i wonder what they are teaching folks in economics classes! all economics boil down to is risk vs reward. in this case its risk<reward. how do ya like that math.
its my opinion that you need to take a refresher course. :D


" would be enormous. Hence why you do not see anyone trying to do it...they would not have customers because the customer would rather pay less for a staged vehicle to get their payload into space."

thanks, you just proved my point. people always want what costs less. people want healthier things. and people really, really want to drive around and never feel a pothole again, not to mention being able to hover around. this is a consumers dream, and if done right, can make a huge profit. instead of wasting money on gas every day, they would instead buy new cars every year or two.


"True, that is one of the points in favor of this idea. But you would still have to show a "Return On Investment" (ROI). It is the only way an engineering project can get green-lighted because nobody is going to throw their money down a hole unless at least a meager profit can be made."

i can see the money able to be made from this. i can see the health benifits from this. i can see the safety benefits from this. i can see the comfort benefits from this. most importantly, i can see how the world could change from greed to care with a single idea. can you?



ill leave you with this thought. when i first held an ipod nano in my hand, i looked at it and realized all that was involved in making it and it made me feel like the future was now. the technology was amazing, yet simple. its amazing how many people have one now. 10 years ago, there were none. now theres something to ponder on.
 
"How is your effort going to get into school, ruthless?"

ill be moving onto the msu campus soon.
Click to expand...

Excellent. Keep me apprised of how it goes. You will soon learn many new things, and whether you believe it or not, you will also learn that some things you thought were true...are not so much.



RMT
 
c'mon man, quit being so negative and gimme some credit! you know its a good idea. /ttiforum/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

learning new things is good and all, but my real interests are to fix things that need 'a fixin.



am is are was were be being been has have had do does did shall will should would may might must can could

i memorized that in the sixth grade and boy am i ready for something to replace it. :D
 
c'mon man, quit being so negative and gimme some credit! you know its a good idea.
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I have given you credit, ruthless. The problem is you want more credit than you are due at this point in your engineering education.

We have been here before. You think you know some things with certainty, but you do not. For example you are terribly wrong about the magnet issue with respect to the cost of building roads. You are making assumptions that they would be about the same cost. They would not. One only needs to look at the cost differential between asphalt and concrete roads and then realize that magnets are nowhere near as plentiful as the materials that go into those.

It is a good idea. It is simply not a feasible engineering idea.

You stated the following:
<font color="red"> ruthless: [/COLOR] but it is one of the best available options that we dont use
<font color="blue"> Rainmantime: [/COLOR] Can you back that up with evidence and analysis?
<font color="red"> ruthless: [/COLOR] yes i can. would you like me to bombard several links?

Show me the links that quantify how "best" is measured and why it is "better" than others. And if there are no financial analyses with them, then they are useless links.

learning new things is good and all, but my real interests are to fix things that need 'a fixin.
Click to expand...

And you will have your chance. But without learning, you will go down unworkable paths, thinking they are workable, and thus get nothing fixed! You have a natural mind for being an engineer, but you are not yet thinking like one. This is not an insult. This is EXTREMELY typical of MANY talented students I get as freshman. Just get into the program and let me know how your first semester goes! I really am behind you, even though you think I am being overly tough on you! /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif Just wait until you get to thermodynamics and fluid dynamics! Then you will wonder why I was being so easy on ya!


RMT
 
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26286459/

...and i need to take an economics class. bwahahahaha! methinks they should rename the class to "short-term moneymaking 101."
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I am not sure I understand your point here.

To clarify my point: Engineering economics is a more specialized course than the typical ECON 201/202 Macro/Microeconomics courses. The engineering course teaches you the time value of money, net present value, Return On Investment (ROI) and how economics affect engineering decisions to pursue specific solutions.

RMT
 
"I am not sure I understand your point here."

i am saying that sometimes people make bad choices, that is all. the world is entirely dependant on oil, yet they realize that one day it will be gone.

i could argue about this, but i really dont feel like it. i made my points and feel like i have given people enough information about it to get interested in it.

certain "people" around this message board that have the skills to do such a thing could be interested enough to check it out, and to see how much it would cost. certain people could then decide that they have the skills to undertake this task, and knows how to get funding. said person could then become a decillionare


or ya could just tell me im wrong cause of a hunch.
 
Ruthless:

Sooner or later their is the possibility of some type of vehicle that hovers or flies could still come out if the regulations where eased by congress and the FAA. When helicopters first were invented at the time there was talk of everyone owning a personal helicopter and flying to work. Engineers even came out with some personal models that had controls so easy to use a person could fly it with very little training. But at last it was not meant to be. There are too many regulations to follow and the maintenance to keep one up running safely might be a little more than a lot of people could handle. Last I heard a company come out with a personal jet pack that could fly for 30 minutes on 5 gallons of fuel but the cost of the jet pack was terribly expensive. That is a big improvement over the past personal jet packs that could only stay in the air for 20 or 30 seconds. Anyway given enough time it could still happen.
 
or ya could just tell me im wrong cause of a hunch.
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You don't honestly think that 4 years for a Bachelor's Degree, another 2 years for a Master's Degree (both in engineering), 24 years as a practicing engineer, with 18 of those years as an engineering instructor amounts to "a hunch", do you? Honestly?

I am not being fascetious when I say I did want to review the links you suggested you could provide. If someone has really done an implementation analysis that shows it is better than other options (say, hydrogen fuel cells), then I will gladly admit I am wrong once I have the chance to review their work.

and feel like i have given people enough information about it to get interested in it.
Click to expand...

You have given us enough information to know (and admit) that it is a good idea. Unfortunately, you have provided no information that shows it is a feasible idea (from a cost-benefit standpoint). I was hoping your links would provide that.


RMT
 
"You don't honestly think that 4 years for a Bachelor's Degree, another 2 years for a Master's Degree (both in engineering), 24 years as a practicing engineer, with 18 of those years as an engineering instructor amounts to "a hunch", do you? Honestly?"

yup, you read it, thought about it, and came to the conclusion that it was not a good idea. dont believe me? believe yourself then, you wrote it.


"If someone has really done an implementation analysis that shows it is better than other options (say, hydrogen fuel cells), then I will gladly admit I am wrong once I have the chance to review their work."

so you never even looked to check it out? thats what i thought. 'twas a hunch after all...

i wonder who has more experience in this area. lets see, someone who has 24 years of engineering experience or someone who has worked on this project for 20 years.

you want links? cool... ill give you one...

"http://www.rare-earth-magnets.com/magnets_bulk.htm"

these are the expensive neodymium magnets. theres much cheaper magnets, but any of em including neodymium costs less than road tar. the funny thing is, they dont even sell bitumen (aka road tar) on the internet anymore. so it looks like you would wonder if theres enough road tar to repave all the roads in the u.s.

so, seeing as how magnets are cheaper than gas by itself, its already proven to be a good idea. thats not counting motors, brakes, driveshaft, transmission, emission control, tires, suspension, computer system, refrigerant, coolant, and the cost to put gas in your car for its lifetime.

so there you go ray. add it up if you want. i really have no interest in pushing this idea onto people and i definitely dont have anything to prove. there is no doubt in my mind that in the future, this will be.

if you dont believe me, fine. but next time have something to back up your hunch.

you really dont realize how much you talk down to people. you should realize that, of course, you know more about engineering than i do, but do you realize how many things i know that you dont? you really should give honest folks more respect than you do someone like hdrkid.

if i had enough of a desire and applied myself, i would know just as much, if not more about engineering as you. you should respect that. you should see that your aura of leetness is easily penetrated when you get cocky.

i can outdo you in ANY sport or physical activity, easily. you are, and will never be a challenge to me in that area. now how does it feel to read that? i have 25 years of experience in the area, and when you get into it, you will wonder why i was being so easy on you.

...think about it.
 
so you never even looked to check it out?
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Is that what you ASS-U-ME? You are wrong. In fact, my roommate in college was a Civil Engineering major. And, in fact, I called to talk to him two days ago when this started and discuss this. Would you like the honest response from him? Please don't assume. It does not look good on you.

you want links? cool... ill give you one...

"http://www.rare-earth-magnets.com/magnets_bulk.htm"
Click to expand...

Changing the subject. Oh no, ruthless! You promised me links that would show magnetic cars and roadways was...how did you word it...?

ruthless: but it is one of the best available options that we dont use
Click to expand...

I don't want a link with a list of prices for magnets. I wanted real engineering to show the problem is feasible. You said you could "bombard with several links." You think all you need to overcome is the cost of tar? Did you ever wonder where the power is going to come to provide enough strength for those magnets? Have you even calculated how strong of an E/M field is necessary to support your average automobile?

You said you could prove it. Now I would like for you to back up your words. Not play pretend!

i can outdo you in ANY sport or physical activity, easily. you are, and will never be a challenge to me in that area. now how does it feel to read that? i have 25 years of experience in the area, and when you get into it, you will wonder why i was being so easy on you.
Click to expand...

Would you care to show me where I made any statements that stated I KNEW I could outdo you in anything like this? However, the flipside is not true. You have made statements of certainty with regard to transportation engineering projects, of which you have very little experience...and it shows. Big diff.

You want to get ugly? Bring it! I have not talked down to you, but I am more than willing to show you what it is like. You don't want to learn? Fine by me. I will treat your ideas just like any other crackpot, if that is what you want. But when you start making claims and then cannot back them up.... well, that is just debunker's heaven, friend.

RMT
 
"You said you could "bombard with several links."

yup, and i can. i just decided that you dont deserve it. if your interested enough, you will figure it out. i dont think you are though.

"Is that what you ASS-U-ME?"

nope, thats what you wrote. but yes, you and i are acting like asses. i am usually a mirror image. i get respect, i give it. i get none, i give none.

"I don't want a link with a list of prices for magnets. I wanted real engineering to show the problem is feasible."

then do your job and get it done... the burden of proof is not on me, its on you. your the one that wants proof, and your the one with the ability to get the proof regardless if its in my favor or not.


"You think all you need to overcome is the cost of tar?"

nope, and if you had actually read what i said instead of copying and pasting, you wouldve read that.


" Did you ever wonder where the power is going to come to provide enough strength for those magnets?"

yup, the earths a pretty cool place. these aint electromagnets 'bub.


"Have you even calculated how strong of an E/M field is necessary to support your average automobile?"

the better question is, have you "the engineer" done it? and yes, i generally know. a high power neodymium magnet less than 1 foot in length could lift an automobile. they have an average lift strength of 500Lbs. per inch.


"You said you could prove it. Now I would like for you to back up your words. Not play pretend!"

no, you are trying to disprove it, so do it. quit playing "your" game and show some evidence as to why you believe you are right. i have given a few links and facts to prove my case. you have done nothing but say, "your wrong because im an engineer and i know."

yes i can prove it and i will prove it to anyone i feel deserves it. as a matter of fact, ive got a nice little model proving it works, ive got info to back it up, and you have a degree that says you should be light years ahead of me. yet you still back the combustion engine. hilarious!

i have seen people argue with you time and time again. you attack a persons ideas and intelligence and it makes you feel good about yourself or something. im not going down that road. the burden of proof is not on me. im not selling anything. i am not trying to get this idea mainstream. i am giving a thought and opinion that the world would be a better place if a system like this were in place. you may not believe it, but its the truth. i dont care about money as i have stated from the day you met me. i do what i have to to get by. i wouldnt even do that if i didnt have to.

and most importantly, i could care less if you dont like the idea. i didnt state it to impress you. impressing you would actually be far too easy of a task for me to undertake. all id have to do is get a degree in engineering, and that really isnt a hard thing for me to do. it would be much harder to impress me.

"Would you care to show me where I made any statements that stated I KNEW I could outdo you in anything like this?"

yeah, reread the entire thread. if you cant see where you act like you know more than everyone else, like you are the authority, like if rainman doesent approve, its a flop idea, then i dont know what to tell you.

"You have made statements of certainty with regard to transportation engineering projects, of which you have very little experience...and it shows."

yup, your right. an ancient idea of the combustion engine is truly a better idea. i consider you a friend, but im telling you, your acting like a bonehead. i deduce that you have very little experience and it shows. the reason the world is as screwed as it is is because some people made very bad decisions with little thought to the long term effects. if i had the power of authority, the world would be a much different, much more organized place. you can then say it would fall like a house of cards and thats fine. thats your opinion. i watch the world that people like you created fall like a deck of cards more and more everyday.


"You want to get ugly? Bring it!"

you should not say things like that. you should give me the same respect you would give me if we were face to face. i guarantee you would never say that to my face. you may think you have the guts, but that would be you lying to yourself.

"I have not talked down to you, but I am more than willing to show you what it is like."

yes you have. as a matter of fact, any idea i have ever talked to you about, you have said was a bad idea and that i need to go to school. the only person i have seen you give credit to is yourself. thats a bit narccasistic in my opinion.

"I will treat your ideas just like any other crackpot, if that is what you want."

if thats the way you want it, that'd be fine by me. do you think im gonna lose sleep cause you think im a crackpot? ha! your really full of yourself.

the bottom line is, debate with me if you want, but do not disrespect me or my ideas. if it is a bad idea, i will be the first person to say it is. if one of my ideas is proven to be a bad idea, i will be the first person to shout it from the rooftops.

you have never seen me be ugly to anyone, and i doubt you ever will. but let it be known, i will only tolerate so much.
 
"You said you could prove it. Now I would like for you to back up your words. Not play pretend!"

no, you are trying to disprove it, so do it. quit playing "your" game and show some evidence as to why you believe you are right. i have given a few links and facts to prove my case. you have done nothing but say, "your wrong because im an engineer and i know."
Click to expand...

If that is what you really want, I can certainly oblige. Do you really want me to do that here in this thread? Your belief that building magnetic roads is no more expensive than tar roads is way off. Applying a simple engineering sizing analysis and historical costs for roads, I can show just how way off your belief really is. And I can even use the data and websites you provided to do it.

Ready?
RMT
 
I havent heard much about a magnetic system as is being discusses in this thread, but do have some questions ?

Would the vehicles be able to adapt to other type's of roads...for instance..in this area, many roads are merely dirt roads with a coating of some sort of natural rock/sand mixture. And there are alot of just plain old dirt roads...how would these vehicles handle roads like these ?

Is there a weight capacity...can a truck work on the same principles ? Loaded down with freight ?

And if we were to build a road as decribed in this thread, is it durable ? Sometimes bull-dozers rumble down our road...and the treads leave marks "in" the road...what would happen if a CAT rolled across a road as described here ? Would a bull-dozer damage the road ? Or would it be necessary to keep heavy, tracked vehicles off of such a road , and use some sort of special transport to get the dozers to a specific location.

Is there any danger from lightening ? What would happen if the road got struck by a bolt ?

I know that around here, road repair is not an expensive ordeal...one truck dumps some sort of oil/tar goop, the next truck drops asphalt gravel, the next truck rolls a weight over the first two layers, then the road workers pack up and go away---road done. Takes the road workers two days, they're done.

If you have a vehicle levitating off the ground, what happens if it comes up over a steep hill, and there is a strong wind coming up and over the hill from the opposite direction? We get wind speeds over 35-40 miles per hour...with much higher wind gusts...would the components in the car or road be able to adapt to changing conditions ? Stronger in some sections, weaker in others ?

The idea seems interesting, but not really hearing much about it, what ARE its limitations ? If any ?
 
I havent heard much about a magnetic system as is being discusses in this thread, but do have some questions ?

Would the vehicles be able to adapt to other type's of roads...for instance..in this area, many roads are merely dirt roads with a coating of some sort of natural rock/sand mixture. And there are alot of just plain old dirt roads...how would these vehicles handle roads like these ?

Is there a weight capacity...can a truck work on the same principles ? Loaded down with freight ?

And if we were to build a road as decribed in this thread, is it durable ? Sometimes bull-dozers rumble down our road...and the treads leave marks "in" the road...what would happen if a CAT rolled across a road as described here ? Would a bull-dozer damage the road ? Or would it be necessary to keep heavy, tracked vehicles off of such a road , and use some sort of special transport to get the dozers to a specific location.

Is there any danger from lightening ? What would happen if the road got struck by a bolt ?

I know that around here, road repair is not an expensive ordeal...one truck dumps some sort of oil/tar goop, the next truck drops asphalt gravel, the next truck rolls a weight over the first two layers, then the road workers pack up and go away---road done. Takes the road workers two days, they're done.

If you have a vehicle levitating off the ground, what happens if it comes up over a steep hill, and there is a strong wind coming up and over the hill from the opposite direction? We get wind speeds over 35-40 miles per hour...with much higher wind gusts...would the components in the car or road be able to adapt to changing conditions ? Stronger in some sections, weaker in others ?

The idea seems interesting, but not really hearing much about it, what ARE its limitations ? If any ?



"And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music."
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I will try to help you. RMT or Ruthless please feel free to correct me if I am wrong. They are talking about vehicles that levitate off magnets. There would be a magnetic street or road and the vehicles would generate their own magnetic field to push against the road to float and move. There is probably a little more to it than this but this is the basic principle. The vehicles could not travel where there were not magnetic roads so running out on dirt or gravel would require tires. And all the roads would have to be the same. I'm sure tires could be built into the magnetic vehicles if needed though expensive to use both. For high wind conditions there would need to be rails. I'm guessing they would also be magnetic to keep the vehicles on the road. If a vehicle went over a hill to fast and the hill dropped sharply will that would not be good at all. The vehicle could leave the rails and de-rail/crash. If lightning struck the road will that depends on the road. I don,t think the highway department would make cheap roads but im sure others would disagree with me on this. For heavier vehicles their magnetic field would be pushing down on the magnets in the road I'm sure the road would have to be strong because i'm sure this would still create some kind of stress. Unlike the roads we have today there would be no tolerence at all for faulty un-repaired roads. That is the good side about this. If it is not fixed it can not be used. So road conditions would have to be much better or people would have to go around or be sol. As for snow and ice get ready to get up and go to work and send the kids to school. I've never heard of a magnetic train letting snow and ice stop it. RMT - though you might not answer how close did I get? Anyway this is my thoughts on this.

RMT &amp; Ruthless: Both of you are friends. Stop it and move on. I've watched you guys debate many times and I enjoy reading both of your view points. Let it go. I will admit I was kinda of interested in watching RMT or Ruthless prove it but hey guys. Don,t get mad just show your proof. Ruthless you told me not to take RMT and Darby personal. I have really tried to stop doing that and I do enjoy their higher education and real world experiance in matters when they post back to me even if I don,t like how they said it to me. Its a trade off for me. I gain knowledge though I might not like exactly how they said it to me. All and all I appreciate their points. Im going to say to both of you what my wife says to me. Cool it and chill out. You guys in my opinion really are friends. Please don,t ruin it. That is all I am going to say.
 
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