magnetic propulsion system.

Re: Magnetic propulsion theory revisted.

Ok, I mistook you for someone else. My memory is not perfect. I had been meaning to ask you for a while if that was you. Now I know.
 
Re: How Integral Calculus Models Reality

free body diagram

And now my light bulb came on. I think I finally understand you now. I draw a simple diagram and then model the forces acting upon uponit. Now that I understand the derivative and the integral that would be easier. Ok, this week I will look at free body diagrams some more. See what I can google and work a few examples. I want to think you for taking the time to show me this. Also, Darby I want to think you too for helping RMT explain this too me.
 
Re: How Integral Calculus Models Reality

After reading this post ray- and understanding the dynamics of the forces involved.

I look back to my father racing funny cars.

Obviously he only wants to accelerate as fast as possible, in a linear motion, along a plane.


The device you describe is an excellent way to achieve, engineering results, in a device like a funny car, except:

Two questions:

I noticed that although, this device can be used to measure results, It appears to me that the engineering of the "airplane/vehicle" seems a little further outside of, of just the measuring of the results, and there is some applied trial and error, in the mechanical aspect, of building the vehicle, can you see this as true?

Also, Is there a small unit, that can be utilized, in the situation I describe(on the cheap?).
 
Re: How Integral Calculus Models Reality

And now my light bulb came on. I think I finally understand you now. I draw a simple diagram and then model the forces acting upon uponit. Now that I understand the derivative and the integral that would be easier.

Exactly. Well done. By being able to mathematically describe (model) all the forces acting on the magnets, we can predict the performance of the system. In the case of your device, we can begin by only building a "1-DOF" analysis model. The main degree of freedom of motion that reactor's device will respond in is the VERTICAL DOF (up/down). So that is the 1 DOF we wish to write the force equations to describe. Let's call this up/down axis the "Z" axis. We can write the Newtonian equation of motion for this axis as:

Sum(Fz) = m*az (Summation of all Forces in the Z direction equals mass times the acceleration in the Z direction).

Sum(Fz) represents the sum of ALL forces acting in the Z direction. Meaning not only the force due to gravity of the magnet/object, but also the oscillating force created by the magnetic field of the magnets. If we can model all of these forces acting on the object, and we measure its mass we can solve the equation as:

az = Sum(Fz)/m (Equation computing the resulting acceleration on a body when subjected to Fz forces.)

From this equation we can build a time-integrator simulation of your device by simply integrating the az acceleration model over time, to predict its velocity (+ and -) along the Z axis. Then we integrate the velocity along the Z axis to predict the displacement (+ and -) along the Z axis from its rest position.

This basic process is exactly how all flight simulators do their job. We can accurately model how the aerodynamic forces act on the airplane (thrust, lift, drag, weight) over periods of time. Except we build these models for ALL SIX Degrees Of Freedom (Vertical, Lateral, Longitudinal, Pitch, Roll, and Yaw) of these aerospace vehicles. Our simulations are much larger, much more detailed, and as a result much more complex. But the very heart of all vehicle simulations are based on this modeling technique which uses powerful equations from physics. We literally use the math to model how a system will peform, before we ever really build it.

This is the basis for what we call model-based systems engineering. It is the most accurate and organized way to develop any complex control system, such as aircraft and spacecraft. And as you can see, it is all backed-up by mathematics that describe how reality really works. /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif

RMT
 
Re: How Integral Calculus Models Reality

I saw this same design used in an electromagnetic wave function, Utilized on the "Superman" ride at "Six Flags magic mountain", if anyone here has rode it.

It used AC inverters, with a voltage step function, to achieve the desired acceleration. The "coaster" had no less than 12 "motors", they did this for efficiency. The track had to be no less that 300 foot of electromagnets.

You can hear an feel the "voltage stepping" on the motors.


In fact, they used this electromagnetic design only in the launch sequence, the cart in effect "coasts up" the last portion of the ride until internia wears out, Friction keeps it planted to the tracks.

They can then the the same devices to decelerate, the "coaster" in a "braking" pattern on the return cycle.


There are a couple people here that have road, the "coaster" I speak of.


By "Motor" I mean any two oscillating magnetic fields.

The "Coaster" would have too much mass, for "launch" and could not "propel itself" without Charged Electromagnets on the cart and the track doing the Inverter function, Please notice though, It did not take much, to get 30k pounds up to "launch speed".
 
Re: How Integral Calculus Models Reality

I saw how this thread started, and I also saw the costs involved of creating "this design" of a road propelled vehicle.

We do not need, a fully electromagnetic function on the entire road.

Simply, magnets , enough to overcome hills and to allow for a braking function(which can be recovered as energy) on the other side, in effect dynamic braking.

If and only if, every single "vehicle weighs the same".(for efficiency)

Not likely.

Or we can store the energy, for the next application of torque. the capacitor/battery banks would be huge and expensive.

So not to detract, from your Idea, but in effect make any cost that you have at least an exponential of Rays original cost to the road.

This is at least the technology that ,I know we have on a large enough scale.

It we be the most efficient also, because it could account for load.



But used as a launch vehicle, the limitations aren't the mass an speed that we can get it moving, we can do that, in actuality there are human and design limitation, that are simply beyond our experience.

The "g's" pulled on the body, and the acceleration, simply out scope out ability to design at the moment.The material requirements, might have well more mass than we are willing to pay to launch such a vehicle, In effect, It simply may not be able, to carry any weight, to overcome the friction involved on the "vehicle".

So ,I get back to "trial and error", at least in the design results that Ray has offered.

The mechanics of this design are horrendous, in either circumstance.
 
Re: How Integral Calculus Models Reality

Exactly. Well done. By being able to mathematically describe (model) all the forces acting on the magnets, we can predict the performance of the system. In the case of your device, we can begin by only building a "1-DOF" analysis model. The main degree of freedom of motion that reactor's device will respond in is the VERTICAL DOF (up/down). So that is the 1 DOF we wish to write the force equations to describe. Let's call this up/down axis the "Z" axis. We can write the Newtonian equation of motion for this axis as:

Sum(Fz) = m*az (Summation of all Forces in the Z direction equals mass times the acceleration in the Z direction).

Sum(Fz) represents the sum of ALL forces acting in the Z direction. Meaning not only the force due to gravity of the magnet/object, but also the oscillating force created by the magnetic field of the magnets. If we can model all of these forces acting on the object, and we measure its mass we can solve the equation as:

az = Sum(Fz)/m (Equation computing the resulting acceleration on a body when subjected to Fz forces.)

From this equation we can build a time-integrator simulation of your device by simply integrating the az acceleration model over time, to predict its velocity (+ and -) along the Z axis. Then we integrate the velocity along the Z axis to predict the displacement (+ and -) along the Z axis from its rest position.

This basic process is exactly how all flight simulators do their job. We can accurately model how the aerodynamic forces act on the airplane (thrust, lift, drag, weight) over periods of time. Except we build these models for ALL SIX Degrees Of Freedom (Vertical, Lateral, Longitudinal, Pitch, Roll, and Yaw) of these aerospace vehicles. Our simulations are much larger, much more detailed, and as a result much more complex. But the very heart of all vehicle simulations are based on this modeling technique which uses powerful equations from physics. We literally use the math to model how a system will peform, before we ever really build it.

This is the basis for what we call model-based systems engineering. It is the most accurate and organized way to develop any complex control system, such as aircraft and spacecraft. And as you can see, it is all backed-up by mathematics that describe how reality really works

So pretty much it would be like taking the individual forces for the device that I proposed and graphing them in charts like we did then solving for the integral then taking all of the results and putting them in this equation for the summation of forces. Of course using the correct units and working the math correctly. And working with 1-dof for the z axis. Now I had a device on bottom and a device on top so I would have to subtract one z-axis from the other to see which force won out. I would do graphing, solving, and the summation equation twice. One for the top and one for the bottom. Then I would subtract the top from the bottom to see the final force. On gravity on one side gravity adds to acceleration but on the other side gravity takes away from acceleration. Anyone who likes figuring things out would love this.
 
Re: How Integral Calculus Models Reality

I apoligize for not posting a video.

Notice the units, that sit between the two sections of rails and listen to the voltage spikes as it ramps up and the dynamic braking upon its return. No wear parts, but it does have a redundant, friction braking system in case of a voltage fault.

superman ride

Other rail:

other rail
 
Re: How Integral Calculus Models Reality

Cool. Well I learned one thing about riding rollar coasters. First read the signs about being healthy and having a strong heart. Last time I rode one by the time it was over I was just about ready to die. Man it scared the heck out of me. It was then I figured out I was getting too old for that stuff. Forget about treadmills and exercise. You want to get your heart beat up get on one of those big mean ones.
 
Re: How Integral Calculus Models Reality

mr. einstein look at math as a beautiful language that requires time to understand. mr. reactor after you learn about integral calculus you should looking into residue calculus as you work in identifying different levels of infinity.

residue calculus pdf file
 
Re: How Integral Calculus Models Reality

We present a new algorithm in order to compute the multidimensional residue of a polynomial map based on a perturbation argument and the Generalized Transformation Law. Then we use it for studying some fundamental problems in Computer Aided Geometric Design.

I looked at the page and downloaded the file. I will review it. Thanks for the tip.
 
Re: How Integral Calculus Models Reality

Happy Holidays, Kanigo2:

After reading this post ray- and understanding the dynamics of the forces involved.

I look back to my father racing funny cars.

Obviously he only wants to accelerate as fast as possible, in a linear motion, along a plane.

Yes. And all professional drag racers these days have dynamic models of their cars. The simplest way to go would be to model a 1-DOF which only models linear motion along the direction of acceleration. But such a model will not tell us anything about potential sideways motions of the car (left/right) as it travels down the strip, nor will it tell us anything about the in-plane rotations of the car (rotations about the vertical axis). To get these effects we would have to construct a 3-DOF dynamic model to model motions along two axes: (fwd/back) and (left/right) and motions about one axis: (yaw rotations about vertical axis). To get the most fidelity for predicting performance we would wish to model motions along all 3 axes and rotations about all 3 axes...the 6-DOF.

The device you describe is an excellent way to achieve, engineering results, in a device like a funny car, except:

Two questions:

I noticed that although, this device can be used to measure results, It appears to me that the engineering of the "airplane/vehicle" seems a little further outside of, of just the measuring of the results, and there is some applied trial and error, in the mechanical aspect, of building the vehicle, can you see this as true?

Most certainly. What I have presented thus far is the mathematical foundation for the derivative and integral and how we apply them to Newtonian equations (F = ma) to construct a time-domain simulation in anywhere from 1-DOF up to 6-DOF (or even higher!). The details of the engineering are kind of "buried" in the determination of the forces acting on a body. Let me explain how we do this with an airplane:

Buried within the Sum(Fx) (summation of forces) for an airplane is not only the force due to mass (weight) but also the aerodynamic forces due to the shape of the body and how pressures change around this shape. The "trial and error" aspect you talk about is inherent in aerodynamic design and wind tunnel testing. Because we have a long history of testing "simple" shapes in wind tunnels, we have a good idea how a body will perform aerodynamically for these shapes. We even have powerful computational fluid dynamic computer programs that have gotten very good at estimating aerodynamics of complex shapes at certain speeds. But at some point, when we converge on what we think is the best design, we must build a scale model with the exact same shape as we wish to build the full-scale airplane, and then put that model in a wind tunnel to measure the EXACT aerodynamic characteristics (those things I talked about before..."aerodynamic stability derivatives"... are what are measured to characterize how the aerodynamic forces will react with the body). Once we have run the wind tunnel tests to collect the actual stability derivatives of the body, we can then load all of this data into our simulations (which previously were just using estimates to compute the forces). Now that the REAL aerodynamic data is used in our simulation, that means the accuracy of the predictions of our simulations have now gone up significantly. This means we can run "what if?" tests on the simulator to see how the airplane will respond in certain flight conditions.

This is why model-based systems engineering is so powerful and in such widespread use: It allows us to model something early (before we build it) to get some predictions, and then we can hone our performance predictions as we go along and build physical models and test them in wind tunnels. Always the models are getting better and better at predicting how the final design will operate. This saves LOTS of money by being able to converge on a design much more quickly than if we did not build models at all.

Also, Is there a small unit, that can be utilized, in the situation I describe(on the cheap?).

It is always true that "you get what you pay for." There are cheap devices that are not integrated into a full-up 6-DOF Inertial Navigation System. You can buy linear accelerometers with a fairly small dynamic range for about $20. But then you would have to use the outputs of those accelerometers and integrate them yourself to get velocities and positions. You can also buy fairly cheap "rate gyros" which still use spinning mass technology to measure body rotational rates...not as expensive as ring laser or fiber optic gyros. But again, you would have to use the outputs and do the integrations yourself.

The job of integrating these sensors into a full-up 6-DOF Inertial Navigation System (or Inertial Measurement Unit) package is not an easy one... and thus, because it takes a lot of engineering brainpower, and design, and testing, these devices end up being spendy. Nature of the beast. But the latest big push in this area are MEMS motion sensors:

http://www.st.com/stonline/products/families/sensors/motion_sensors.htm

There are several links on this page to the various types of accelerometers and rate gyros produced by this manufacturer. While the bad news may be these sensors are still fairly pricey, the good news is that they are always getting cheaper...


RMT
 
Re: How Integral Calculus Models Reality

Thank you Ray, I be sure to bring this up, in full and see as a set if we can comprehend it and make use of it.

There are much smarter people than me involved in these "projects", of my Fathers.

To tell you the truth when ,I saw your chart, all I saw was, torque, tires, cam bandwidth, gear reduction and torque converter specs/vs. weight and the ability for the car to apply the actual power to the road.

Each little curve, in that scale, was another aspect of the functional design of the car.

Makes you have respect for the ol engineers, doesn't it?

Crazy slideruler's.


-------------------------------------------------------------------->

I didn't mean to take you off topic there, reactor, to me the information has to be functional, or it has no use.

This is what I would do with the above information and its direct application.
 
Re: How Integral Calculus Models Reality

I didn't mean to take you off topic there, reactor, to me the information has to be functional, or it has no use.

This is what I would do with the above information and its direct application.

Yes I agree, the information has to be functional. Thanks to Ray and Darby for bringing that to us.
 
Hey i am 11 years old and my friend and I had the same idea as you ruthless. We have also made the bluprints for a perpetual motion machine, and my other friend and I have some great ideas for time travel. Anybody Interested I am posting a heading called IDEAS? under the time travel discussion page. If anybody is interested in the peretual motion machine these a post under New Science and Alternate Energies. All ideas are welcome.
 
Back
Top