God?

[nicknack]

Yes, indeed. I am a member of a group of magicians. Those who are impatient or not skilled do sometimes end up with "demons" stalking them. I also studied The Goetia, but was not interested in summoning demons from without, I have my own "demons" within to contend with.

And I thought we humans had enough to deal with. What makes you want to be a magician anyway? Is it the power you hold? Are you still involved?

Today, in modern society, there are no longer many heros. The churches are leaving people with a void of belief. To fill that void, many people begin to dabble in the "New Age" methods, and unknowingly cause transgressions in the energy patterns.

I agree 100%. Although I am a christian, I find that going to church these days leave me with a void of no-reason. I haven't been to church for months now. Everytime I go there, it disappoints me even more. Like people say, there are more hypocrites in a church than politics itself. However, I still choose to believe. I've had my own experiences in religion. Modern churches are indeed a disappointment as such I actually wanted to attend an Orthodox church. Dabbling with the New Age is dangerous. It is really sad how people use modern science to promote the New Age.

Thats what I said. They are using the guise of religion to commit acts of murder, when they would more than likely kill people anyway, God or not. Once again, not taking responsibility for their actions. They blame everybody else for their being "forced" to kill.

It is sad to see hundreds dying day by day in the news. To see rough justice carried out and no penalty is brought upon those who commit it. It is human nature to blame each other. Nevertheless, Adam and Eve blamed the serpent too. However, I would never be able to understand why they would succumb to such evil to do things like that.

Yes, I agree, environmental factors can cause unusual events. However, not to the extent of three of us seeing and talking to a responsive woman. We do have active imaginations, but not that good.

I do respect most religions/faiths and actually have participated in many of their "practices". I enjoyed them quite a bit and like to experience different things in life. Many mosques are beautiful in architecture, as are many chruches are also. But it isnt just the building that makes it beautiful, but the people within it's walls.

You seem like a very neutral person who wants to experience it all. But ny jugglinf different experiences, isn't it stressful?

No, that's fiction, since in my opinion god doesn't exist in the first place. However, when I think about it I have to admit that I was wrong. I meant to say he lets (innocent, godloving) people suffer (from starvation and sicknesses) because of a tiny mistake one person made several millenia ago

So your saying because Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit, it was their fault we are in such a diabolical mess? In the first place, God warned them to eat the fruit, ultimately it was still their choice. He left the tree there to bloom to grow in it's splendor, they did not notice it until the serpent came upon Eve and told her of the special fruit. Now why don't we have a flashback. Previously before that, there was Lucifer. He was the most perfect and wonderful creation that God had created. But being perfect, he had free will too. Having free will, he wondered. If God made everything, then wouldn't everything contain part of God? Wouldn't I be God? Led by such thoughts, he wanted to be come God! He wanted to be more powerful, he wanted to show God. Ah. That's now when God has created his world, us, the humans. Although Lucifer who has changed his name to Satan was thrown in hell was released from the fiery prison and walked on earth again. In the Bible he is refered to as The Prince of Air and the Earth. Meaning he ruled the earth and space. But he wasn't omnipresent, but he had minions, he had no reason to care. His minions, who were angels who had fallen like him, spread his evil throughout the world. Having sin imbedded in us like a disease, we were prone to temptation. Thus satan had a plan, he wanted to ruin God's creation, wanted to ruin the world. He tempted us with many things, taught us evil, gave us guns, weapons, to blind us from God. With that, that's how the world became a mess. Needless to say, this is nothing more than a story and creativity to some of you.

Yes, so you could say that perhaps it wasn't such a good idea to give humans free will.

Animals have free will. Our computers do not. Do you like being manipulated like a computer, and what if you didn't like what was done for you to obey.

But tell me, how can a person possibly make a wrong descicion based on free will, while he's created to the supposedly PERFECT image of god?

Man is created by God, but man is still NOT God. Man is a reflection of God, minus the powers, minus the omni- powers, minus the grace, minus the love. We are like diamonds from birth, so pure. But deep inside there is inquity. As we grow, the inquity grows. The flaws, more exposed.

No. For the simple reason that, in my opinion, god doesn't exist!!! I don't need anything from god. I'm perfectly happy, I have everything my heart desires and I feel absolutely no need for a god.

There are millions who are happy like you. Of course, being happy has many reasons behind it. You are happy because you don't need a God to tell you who you are, you don't need one to obey. You are yourself, a special unique individual. A product of evolution. And while you still breathe, you want to do as many things as you can before you die and become fertiliser for the soil. Is that it?

First of all, I clearly stated that it was a hypothetical scenario! Again, in my opinion god doesn't exist. And no, I don't feel like I have participated in making a mess. I agree, I'm not perfect... nobody is. It's funny though: You say "We are not perfect either". Are you implying that god isn't perfect either?

We, being, humans not God. You should know what chain reactions are. How a rumour can become an urban legend, how it affects people. How it is spread on. It is the same thing.

That's a sad thought. I think there are million things to live for and for me god is certainly NOT one of them

Of course, there are many things. There are games, consoles, xboxes, books, tv, movies, entertainment, news, every single form of hobby designed to entertain us healthily or not. It is what pulls us the need for God.

Correct me if i am wrong but are you a muslim? I hope so anyway It seems to me that islam is as i understand a peaceful religion and that it is fact the fundamentalist that call themselves muslim that do most of the bomings ect, in the same way that christian fundamentals seem to have a simlar agender, I think that it is these people who give you religonists a bad name, I just wish that people would chill out abit and put there energies into usefull things like sorting out the environment or find a cure for aids.

Sorry. I'm not. I'm a Christian. This men are downright evil. They manipulate their tradition, their heritage and their fellowmen to commit heineous acts with them. Brainwashing innocents to bomb themselves up. Have you read stories of shaky teenages, who breakdown because deep inside them they do not want to do it. In the past, Christian Fundamentalists were liket his. Like the war between the Protestants and the Catholics. There are people who are sorting out the environment and finding a cure for AIDS. There are many good things in the world, however there are also bad things to balance it out.

If god does exist then why don't you see animals praying? as they say god created man in his own image, I think he is going to look very strange when you think about the variation in peoples appearence, and where does that leave animals? I think the reverse is more probable man drempt up god in his image, being as man is arrogant enough to think that aliens look similar to humans and so of course god must look like us aswell, if a higher energy does exist I don't think it would have a physical form anyway as it is probably just energy of some kind .

God created animals to liven up the world, to give it colour. To give men companionship. To give men something to discover. To make life exciting. Animals are souless beings who die and just rot to dust. We however, being refered as animals, are the only most remotely most intelligent beings that have technology. Unlike dolphins, they may be smart but they do not develop technology like us.

 

[Rhudey]

God created animals to liven up the world, to give it colour. To give men companionship. To give men something to discover. To make life exciting. Animals are souless beings who die and just rot to dust. We however, being refered as animals, are the only most remotely most intelligent beings that have technology. Unlike dolphins, they may be smart but they do not develop technology like us.

I find this line of thinking to be very arrogant and one of the reasons I dislike organized religion. You think that we as a species are more important than everything else? It's funny, if you look at this planet, there are many species of animals that once extinct, life on earth would cease to exist. Yet if humans became extinct, the earth would once again flourish with life.

Life is life, it is precious in every form, and to think that everything was put on this earth just for us "to liven things up" is short sighted and arrogant. Because you'r smarter than a dolphin you get eternal life and it does not? Why? No wonder this planet is in the current state it is in.

 

[nicknack]

I find this line of thinking to be very arrogant and one of the reasons I dislike organized religion. You think that we as a species are more important than everything else? It's funny, if you look at this planet, there are many species of animals that once extinct, life on earth would cease to exist. Yet if humans became extinct, the earth would once again flourish with life.

Life is life, it is precious in every form, and to think that everything was put on this earth just for us "to liven things up" is short sighted and arrogant. Because you'r smarter than a dolphin you get eternal life and it does not? Why? No wonder this planet is in the current state it is in.

Again to digress. No one said about animals being play things. Animals are very beautiful creatures and I love animals and plants. I do not imply that we as humans, are ultimate, I say that we are just superior in intelligence. Flora and Fauna in the world is essential to Man's survival. Without flora and fauna, there would be no food, no resources. Most importantly, Man has learnt how to form companionship with friends. Correct me if I'm wrong, are you a vegan?

Obviously, everything God created had life in it. If God had created an Earth consisting of only Man and no flora and fauna, wouldn't it be kind of pointless? I am an animal love. Nevertheless, they are still souless creatures, but they still should not be tortured either. Your point of view is rather narrow, I did not say we are all superior, we rule all animals so we can do anything just because we are smarter. I'm just saying animals are created to be part of nature, something for Man to appreciate, the beautiful creations by God. Dolphins are smart, but being an animal, it does not the priority of an eternal life. Before you start saying I'm selfish and arrogant. Think of the fallen angels. Did you know that in the Bible, angels are forbidden from Salvation. They themselves can be susceptible to temptation like satan, however, once they fall, they fall for eternity. I know how you feel for animals and what the world has gone by mistreating them. I empathize with you. However, we are still humans are after all, primarily.

 

[Rhudey]

nicknack

I was not calling you an arrogant person, I meant the whole line of thought that people have regarding this. Why are humans more important than anything else. The entire statement that god created man in his image is arrogant (maybe I am taking this statement too literally?). Regardless of intelligence, I do not believe myself to be more important than anything else in the grand scheme of life. An animal needs to eat like us, to breathe, to sleep, etc. the only thing that separates us is our intelligence.

I am not as dead set against the existence of god like Roel, but I see his point. If there is a creator, I find it unlikely that everything was created for our benefit, I think that we are just a small piece of the larger puzzle.

 

[KerrTexas]

And I thought we humans had enough to deal with. What makes you want to be a magician anyway? Is it the power you hold? Are you still involved?

We are all independent, solitary individuals on a path of ascending the TOL. In has nothing to do with power, but only refining ourselves through contact with our higher selves, increasing our awareness of creation, "remembering" who we really are, and taking control of our lives, comiong to learn the other facets of creation.
In the course of increased awareness, increased discipline of meditation and ritual results in realizing that there are not as many limitations to our abilities as perceived by most of humanity.
Some individuals become drawn in by those "powers" that they experience...and some don't.

We all have "demons" within that need to be addressed if we wish to change destructive patterns that we create during our lives. The group is just a meeting of minds. Those that went before, help those that are on their way up. Those that are on their way up, help those that wish to begin.

Nothing more, nothing less.

You seem like a very neutral person who wants to experience it all. But ny jugglinf different experiences, isn't it stressful?

I am a gemini, does that answer your question? /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[RainmanTime]

Hi Rhudey,

I find it unlikely that everything was created for our benefit

I'm not sure if you know of this, so I will just offer it FYI. There is a theory that goes by the name of the "Anthropic Principle" which implies exactly this. It is supported by analysis of universal parameters that make things "just right" for life on a universal scale, much less the fact that the conditions are "exactly right" for life here on earth.

HERE is a link that may explain part of this theory. There is plenty more available via a simple Google, if you are interested.

RMT

 

[KerrTexas]

Man is created by God, but man is still NOT God. Man is a reflection of God, minus the powers, minus the omni- powers, minus the grace, minus the love. We are like diamonds from birth, so pure. But deep inside there is inquity. As we grow, the inquity grows. The flaws, more exposed.

First, I must say that I enjoy reading your posts/replies. I tend to be negative ( or perceive myself to be ) more than I intend to be. (Another "demon" within to exorcise )

One thought I had along these lines, as you mentioned, was that the Creator spins in a dance with non-existence and existence. The combination of the 0 and the 1. With all else being a reflection of this combination. I wonder if humanity shares this combination...structure and chaos... a balance of the two. As time passes, we effect this balance and drift ( or choose ) one over the other.
This choice or drift resulting in the spread of chaos in the world.

To bring this into focus for time travelling purposes, since some who read this thread are wondering what all this has to do with time travel...the principle that I have referenced from the Kabbalah states the following... The "Book of Concealed Mystery" is the book describing equilibrium and balance. The equilibrium and balance referred to is that harmony(ies) which results from the analogy of contraries, it is the dead centre where, the opposition of opposing forces being equal in strength, rest succeeds motion. ( This is mentioned in The Gospel Of Thomas also )

Through the interaction between the two forces, light(1)existence/awareness and dark(0)non-existence...each viewless without the other, results in an emanation, reflection(s) of 0 and 1. It is also interesting to note that in the Triplicate thread, Trollface has indicated that the definition of light is not either particle nor wave. In reading some of the sites he posted as sources I found this seems fit in with the above premise, of which I have not posted the "entire' text.

The equilibrium and balance must not be disturbed , thus I think that is why it has been so difficult to construct any time machines so far. If one is created, I believe it must somehow remain in balance with the harmony of creation/universe.

The essence of everything actually being a type of sound emanation ( In the beginning was the Word, And the Word was the beginning...), the emanations spreading from the initial 0 and 1 interactions along maybe an infinite number of Frequencies, some even resulting in light, visible and non, x-ray, micro, macro, DNA?, Time? Each sharing the essence of the original "Word".

The theories of actual time machines are agreeing with this also, in some regards...the opening of a wormhole and maintaining the "tunnel" with opposing forces.

As a side note: God never stated anywhere that limitations were placed upon humanity. The only limitations are those we have placed upon ourselves.

 

[THEPINMEN]

nicknack,

My apologies for thinking you are islamic, guess I pressumed based on your location.
I have not come across such teen agers that brake down when faced with the prospect of suicide bombing innocents. I still can't get my head around the idea of killing people, although I have to agree with the idea of an amount of brainwashing going on.

OvrLrdLegion,

I understand your point of view on firearms now , cheers .
A question, was your neighbour arrested for two murders after the business of the burglars , over here he would have got two 10 year sentences at least. muder is still murder, although due to it being non premeditated the sentence would have been reduced.

Keep It Sweet The Pin Men /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[nicknack]

I was not calling you an arrogant person, I meant the whole line of thought that people have regarding this. Why are humans more important than anything else. The entire statement that god created man in his image is arrogant (maybe I am taking this statement too literally?). Regardless of intelligence, I do not believe myself to be more important than anything else in the grand scheme of life. An animal needs to eat like us, to breathe, to sleep, etc. the only thing that separates us is our intelligence.

For one thing, we are the only ones to be saved. Why? Because we are his special creation. We do not have any other human species to compete with. If not this would be a totally different thing. I am not biased against animals, or I'm saying we should not do anything about them. But the fact that they were created, they were never meant to be as intelligent as us or let our intelligence take them literally. Knights have their trusty horses, even some superheroes have pets. Millions over the world have pets. I used to have a hamster until it died. Animals are important to the world, if not we would already be dead. I never and did not ever take animals literally. I still don't get what's so arrogant about it?

We are all independent, solitary individuals on a path of ascending the TOL. In has nothing to do with power, but only refining ourselves through contact with our higher selves, increasing our awareness of creation, "remembering" who we really are, and taking control of our lives, comiong to learn the other facets of creation.
In the course of increased awareness, increased discipline of meditation and ritual results in realizing that there are not as many limitations to our abilities as perceived by most of humanity.
Some individuals become drawn in by those "powers" that they experience...and some don't.

Sorry. But what religion or belief are you from? Because strangely, from what I've read, it sounds really New-Age-y. Sorry to say that, but I'm just being honest. I've read of cases of people practising meditation or rather TM, having more problems and end up worse than usual. Thus, the popularity of TM dropped. But now it's rising again due to the New Age explosion. This morning, when I read the paper. Why an Indian mystic came to Singapore recently and many enjoyed his talk. I would find it strange why people are open to such alternative methods to de-stress at all. Is having peace and happiness in life all that so important? What about purpose? I don't see how increasing awareness actually helps. Like me and Roel, we are happy without all this. But the difference is I believe in a God and he doesn't. Same thing, I don't see how this helps.

I am a gemini, does that answer your question?

Oops. Major spelling error. I don't read the horoscopes or zodiac, so I know nuts about it.

First, I must say that I enjoy reading your posts/replies. I tend to be negative ( or perceive myself to be ) more than I intend to be. (Another "demon" within to exorcise )

Thanks. It is intriguing to read all that from a teenager, yeah? Considering I'm not even an intellectual or even close. I'm just only so average not like some of you here. I would say even the existence of God is by science itself? Einstein said that it would be possible to be outside time and if anyone were to be out there, it would be God. But when he said that, he meant the universe to be a one cosmic mind. It was in one of his quotes. I can't quite remember. I saw it outside a buddhist temple one day. I think that we have only one timeline, and by time travelling this timeline may be altered majorly or another theory would be, the timeline would 'fix' itself accordingly, it's like nothing ever happened at all. Suddenly what wasn't there would be there and we wouldn't know anything about it. However, wouldn't time travel give the human body a lot of stress? Or would be the body be protected in a time contraption? A wormhole is only possible in theory, scientists have not yet seen or proven one.

My apologies for thinking you are islamic, guess I pressumed based on your location.
I have not come across such teen agers that brake down when faced with the prospect of suicide bombing innocents. I still can't get my head around the idea of killing people, although I have to agree with the idea of an amount of brainwashing going on.

It's ok. My best friend is an Islamic, I know how he feels when Islam is being directed at wrongly when it concerns terrorist. I'm a chinese though, if you're interested. Having innocents killed daily would end many prospective lives. This youths has taken a dead end on life, or are they forced? They seem to be forced by those terrorists. Outside they may be brainwashed. But inside, they are struggling to be free. I was wondering howcome, nobody helps this potential suicide bombers? Why do they want to kill so many? What do terrorists want to prove? It only contribues in a negative way to the economy.

 

[KerrTexas]

I understand your point of view on firearms now , cheers .
A question, was your neighbour arrested for two murders after the business of the burglars , over here he would have got two 10 year sentences at least. muder is still murder, although due to it being non premeditated the sentence would have been reduced.

Absolutely not. It was kill or be killed situation. We do have self-defense laws here. It may be murder in some context, but if you got someone pulling a gun out on you, and you fire first in self-defense of your family, I dont know if it I would call it out-right murder, at least the courts dont view it that way.

Los Angeles is a rough place, not for the meek. There is even a cartoon around with three people in a hospital room. A nurse comes in and looks in dismay at the condition of the patients. She asks each one in turn what happened. The first guy says..."Car accident. Was thrown out the as it rolled over, broke my arm in two places and wrenched my back"! The second guy said..."Fell off my roof putting up an satellite dish, broke my leg and sprained my wrist"! The nurse looked over at the third guy, and he looked real bad. Legs in casts, arms bandaged up, bruises all over his face..."What happened to you"? she asked. He peered at her through one good eye and mumbled..." Speeding ticket in Los Angeles!!"

That about sums up L.A.

Gemini's are known to avoid boredom at all costs. We get involved in many activities at once. Always on the move in search of interesting things to keep our minds active. So as far as participating in many religious rituals, I am well practiced at doing this type of thing. I dont get confused at all. I am usually reading at least three books at the same time, not literally, but as soon as I get tired of one, I will pick up another.

 

[KerrTexas]

Why are humans more important than anything else. The entire statement that god created man in his image is arrogant (maybe I am taking this statement too literally?). Regardless of intelligence, I do not believe myself to be more important than anything else in the grand scheme of life.

God said it himself. "Let us make man in our image!" It was our task to mind the store, so to speak, and tend the garden. I still think it may have been somewhat a metaphor as far as the image of man vs. God. The are references or comparisons to man and one of Gods sacred names, Rainman can correct me if I am wrong, but I remember it to be IHVH. Each letter representing a section of the human form. This is a rather simplistic explaination, with there being much more involved than I placed within this reply.

I agree that we are a small piece of the larger puzzle, but as mentioned previously, God never said nor indicated that any limitations were placed upon humanity being able to achieve or create anything desired.

As far the condition of the world...well...The starving can be fed by others in the world, instead of letting excess crops rot on docks or in the fields. The near extintion of animals was done by whom?...God wasnt out on the African plains hanging out the door of a Range Rover with an elephant gun. All worldly problems could be solved by humanity, but greed and lazyness get in the way.

 

[Roel van Houten]

Therefore, free will that is based on incomplete knowledge of the universe permits you to make decisions that you can learn from. Some result in "positive feedback" and others result in "negative feedback", but all are learning experiences for your soul that allow it to evolve over multiple life cycles.

But no matter how you see it, in the end it's still god who created us (according to you). He created us in such a way that we are able to make wrong decisions.

 

[KerrTexas]

Yes He did. It hard to learn anything if you only made the right decisions, and that would be removing free will if there was no choice, since only the right choice would not be a choice at all.

 

[RainmanTime]

He created us in such a way that we are able to make wrong decisions.

"Right" and "wrong" are interesting concepts. They are concepts that are clearly influenced by time, as time can morph what was thought to be a "right" decision into a "wrong" one, and vice versa. I think this is part and parcel of the reason why people will always aruge about what is "right" and "wrong" or what is "true" and "false". In the domain of God's existence, there is no "right" or "wrong" decision. We are the ones who label decisions as "bad" or "good", not God.

For instance, in the context of the days prior to WW II, it may have seemed like a "right" decision to pacify Hitler. However, with a bit of time under our belts, I would think most people of today would say that such a decision was "wrong", as it ended up in more lives lost through a longer and bloodier war. Self-similarly we see the situations of today. There are many people who wish to judge the US as "wrong" for invading Iraq. Yet many Americans, pointing to the pacification of Hitler as a directly pertinent example, would argue that the invasion of Iraq to oust Saddam Hussein is a "right" decision because it seeks to avoid repeating the history of WW II.

Time is the only true mediator of "right" or "wrong", IMHO.

RMT

 

[CAT]

Good point Ray!

Let me add a philosophical viewpoint in the bigger scheme of things...of time, I question who's time??? Many things can construe time... Time goes in cycles and events which lead to outcomes...

But if we use the example of our Earth, we can see that it responds and ages from day to day with the mutually exchanged agreement of the sun and gravitation pull of the moon and planets, which create the cycles. As such so does our body and time revolve around these forces as well...Very perennial...

Which brings me to the conclusion that every event that takes place also revolves around these forces, which includes wars, presidential elections the stock market, storms, wild fires, even the super bowl! The whole sytem is involutionary!

Fate is not without a sense of irony...and yet his mastery over mankind is greatest, and his habitual irony acquires a new meaning and a sort of tragic pathos in the face of death...

If we use the example of our body applied to the whole system of systems view/subsystem, using the example of the body and its immune system, when ones body is attacked by a virus (a foreign enemy of sorts). the outcome is the body runs a fever in which many cells die...

This can also be applied to a war when the lack of communication breaks down or unwillingness to comply (between cells/virus).

Hence Iraq at the present moment...

 

[KerrTexas]

Which brings me to the conclusion that every event that takes place also revolves around these forces, which includes wars, presidential elections the stock market, storms, wild fires, even the super bowl! The whole sytem is involutionary!

This idea takes away free will. God has not placed any limitations upon what humanity can do with creation, thus we can shape our destiny. If it is pre-ordained, then one could not hold anyone responsible for their actions.

God gave us all potential, it is up to each individual to achieve the highest of their potential. God gave us the power to choose. The whole point of studying the Kabbalah and philosophies that evolve in the same circles is to regain control of ones destiny, and not to be a piece of driftwood on the sea of creation, or the ocean of society.

I also contemplate if time to God really has any meaning. If one was to try and conceive of God with a wide viewpoint, the vastness of His being, what is time to such a being?
Having possibly existed for eons upon eons, the full life span of Earth is hardly even worth consideration. It would seem the focus would be in the achievement of the potential God placed within us.

 

[KerrTexas]

"Right" and "wrong" are interesting concepts.

They certainly are interesting concepts. What is wrong and what is right? Some of the Native American Indian Tribes had philosophies regarding warfare and respect for thieves. Western society may have perceived as them barbaric ideals, but to the tribes, nothing was wrong with their view on how to obtain respect from their Gods and tribesmen.

The Incas and Mayans that slaughtered thousands to their Sun God saw nothing wrong with what they were doing, it was part of daily life as an Incan or Mayan.
And then again, the Crusaders saw nothing wrong with doing their duty as ordered by the Pope, or it certainly didnt slow them down any if they thought they were doing the wrong thing.

It seems that what is wrong is determined by society. As a case in point, to spank a child now could result in the police showing up and possibly arresting the parent for child abuse. A child was running around a pool, and would not heed the requests of the mother to stop. finally the mother gave the youngster a swat on the behind. Within minutes the police showed up and gave the mother a stern warning.
This seems to be quite different than when my father was growing up and attending a catholic school. The Nuns used to hit everybody with rulers for the slightest infractions. Granted there are better methods, but as my father has said, when his Dad told him NOT to do something, my father didnt need to be told twice, knowing a good rear lashing with a belt was soon to follow.

So do we really know inherently what is wrong or right...or have we been programmed by our up-bringing and influence of society?

 

[trollface]

Yet many Americans, pointing to the pacification of Hitler as a directly pertinent example, would argue that the invasion of Iraq to oust Saddam Hussein is a "right" decision because it seeks to avoid repeating the history of WW II.

I think that this number is fewer, however, seeing as how the Senete have said that they would never have supported the war if they had had all of the information and had known how bad the reliability of the evidence was. Add to that the Butler report, in the wake of which Tony Blair has publicly admitted that Saddam Hussain didn't have WMDs at the time of the invasion (and of course Hussain being all but cleared of even knowing about the chemical attacks in Hezbollah), and fewer and fewer people are still trying to flog that dead horse, and can see that Hussain and Hitler bear little comparison - certainly in terms of being a threat to the outside world. All the justifications for war have, one by one, been shown to be false. People are realising that.

As for the topic at hand, I agree with Roel that God would have a considerable amount to answer for were he to appear one day, however, I disagree with the reasoning. It's not because He gave us free will and our parents didn't - it's because he created the entire environment into which we were born. It's actually more like the question of if Jim Carrey can blame Ed Harris for his life in The Truman Show. The answer is "not completely", but it's still a lot.

 

[nicknack]

But no matter how you see it, in the end it's still god who created us (according to you). He created us in such a way that we are able to make wrong decisions.

It is weird to think however. How the universe was created and a couple billion years later. There was a small star in the spiral arm of the the Milky Way which became a new star and it's fragments became planets. It formed 9(+1) planets and giving a it a long time. There was one cell life forms. It eventually evolved and became more complex and what we now have known is DNA. But strangely, the scientist's have theories that we evolved from apes, just because we look like them. Besides that there is the flawed Darwininan theory to say that. But in actual fact, the scientists do not have real proof. It is rather sad to say, that scientists recently discovered that the DNA of rats are more similar to humans rather than the DNA of apes. So are we to have evolved from rats too? I see not. If all this is by chance, the odds of us being here are nearly impossible. Judging from the large endless ends of the universe, anything may be possible. So would other forms of life? If not why would our solar system be quite empty and desolate? Even mars has only the slightest form of fossiled single cell life. For us to actually evolve and develop such an advanced physical 'calculator', which is the brain, it is by far seemingly impossible. From what we know for science, everything still follows the law of thermodynamics and physics. In order to have other life out there and for them to travel here is impossible. Likewise, time travel in theory is not really very feasible now. Thus it would seem to me, that having no God seems more ridiculous than it really sounds to descend from the dust of the stars. That fact, I can not partake. Unless I have proof, which is what many want about God.

 

[nicknack]

This idea takes away free will. God has not placed any limitations upon what humanity can do with creation, thus we can shape our destiny. If it is pre-ordained, then one could not hold anyone responsible for their actions.

For that you are wrong. Our future and past has already played in the hands of God. It is currently on play mode, on the current scale of time. But God can view it again and again like a DVD. Which means, what has happened has already happened. Whatever choices we have made within free will, has already been made and it's currently being played not being recorded. Right not this free will and choice I make for every word I type here has already been done, but we cannot view it in the 3rd dimension and within time. It's like a DVD, when you act, things and events may happen you might not know as a result of your actions. After which when it has all been recorded you can view it again. The end result if you can only view what you have done and chosen, but not alter it. That is history. The present, ironically has already happened. Thus we do not know what happens in the future, for it has not been played.

I also contemplate if time to God really has any meaning. If one was to try and conceive of God with a wide viewpoint, the vastness of His being, what is time to such a being?
Having possibly existed for eons upon eons, the full life span of Earth is hardly even worth consideration. It would seem the focus would be in the achievement of the potential God placed within us.

When God created the universe, he has always been in control of not only the earth and the people but all the things that happens in the universe. Thus, there never was time to limit him, to age him, to give him limits and choices. However, although we might not be able to understand that he has always existed as existence in his dimension does not consist of such limits like existence, creation, or end. Thus, time to him is another result of what he has created to run through the events of the Alpha and the Omega.