God?

[Roel van Houten]

Re: Godess?

As I said, some have "religionized" it, but using and applying Qabalah to understand the world around you and affect changes in it does not require you to believe in a supernatural power.

So can we conclude that Quabalah is

also

a religion? You say you don't need to believe in a supernatural power to understand and apply the Quabalah, yet you say you believe in a form of God. You can't blame me for thinking that Quabalah is a religion, can you?

Roel! I already did! Why do both you and trollface do this?

Let he who is without sin throw the first stone

I honestly didn't know what question you were referring to and I will answer your question now. I'm guessing it's this question you want answered:

Consider this: Our human optical instruments (eyes) are "tuned" to a narrow frequency band called visible light. How would our view of life and the universe change if our eyes were tuned to higher frequencies of light? What would we see?

I guess we will see the exact same things as we do now, only in greater detail. Perhaps we'd be able to actually SEE the difference between hot and cold. Or maybe we'll discover a whole set of "attributes" we never could have imagined. I can also imagine we could visualize that we are indeed more or less "interconnected". The problem is: we don't know. It's nice to theorize about it, but since we can't see these higher frequencies we can't really conclude anything from them.

As much as I like to accept "the evidence" that I can't sense, I don't know how. By just accepting the existence of a supernatural power, god, deity or higher level system? That doesn't work for me and I don't think it will help anyone to find out what secrets are still hidden in our universe.

No man is an island.

I'd like to further comment on that. I've mentioned previously that I was very interested in your Sea of Energy. My own interpretation of that theory was that the only thing that makes me different from, lets say, a stone is the frequency at which the energy fluctuates. This would imply that although objects and entities don't share the same "frequencies", they are indeed connected. I personally don't think this theory needs a deity or creator for it to be true.

I hope I've answered your question now. If I took the wrong question, please direct me to the right question and I will kindly answer that one as well /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif I do not intentionally avoid questions.

Mazzel!

 

[RainmanTime]

Re: Godess?

Roel,

I honestly didn't know what question you were referring to and I will answer your question now.

You know, there is a search feature on this website. /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif You could have used the words "Global Consciousness Project" in it, since I did refer to it the last time I asked you about your thoughts.

I'm guessing it's this question you want answered:

Consider this: Our human optical instruments (eyes) are "tuned" to a narrow frequency band called visible light. How would our view of life and the universe change if our eyes were tuned to higher frequencies of light? What would we see?

Uhhhh. No. I don't believe this had anything to do with the Global Consciousness Project. Try reading http://www.timetravelinstitute.com/ttiforum/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=time_travel&Number=23262&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&vc=1 , after the links to the Global Consciousness Project. The part that I am interested in your thoughts for ends with the question:

Is this good enough "proof" for you Roel?

Whether it meets your standard of proof or not, I'd say it is at least evidence of a non-physical connection of humans, which is what souls and spirits are all about.

RMT

 

[Roel van Houten]

Again, I do not mean to sound condescending, but there is a LOT more going on in the "space" that you perceive as empty.

Now, this doesn't sound condescending for a change! /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif I agree that there is a LOT more going on and I never said that there wasn't. However, since we can't sense these things, there's no way in telling WHAT exactly is going on. Consequently, it is impossible to claim the existence of a deity based on what we CAN'T sense.

No, the reasoning is based upon the fact that both your senses and your memory do not perfectly (nor accurately, as some would claim) transcribe reality, nor how reality can change.

Then what DOES transcribe reality perfectly and/or accurately? If we can't perceive things the way they really are, that would also aply to your theories, thoughts and believes! God, Quabalah, the Tree-of-Life; they might all be one big illusion!

I'm sorry if it offends you, and I am sorry you think it is arrogant.

It will take a lot more for you to actually offend me. You have a lot of credit and I can take "a punch or two"

I do think the way of thinking is arrogant. And the thing is, you're so convinced of your own right that you'll maintain that it is THE truth. Fact is, that a huge amount of people don't accept that as the truth, which reduces your truth to a theory. Some people claim they've been abducted by aliens. Obviously they think it's true, since it was their experience. That doesn't mean, however, that the rest of the world has to accept it as the truth.

Therefore, I can say it is just as arrogant of you to sit in denial and say "you have to show me before I believe it."

This is a typical case of which came first, the chicken or the egg? You don't HAVE to show me, but you want to make me believe it's the truth while I have no reason to think that! You can't say I'm not open to new things... I "bought into" several of your theories and I AM sincerely interested in some, if not all religions. It's not that I dont WANT to believe, I just need an indication that there is something to believe in!


Roel

 

[Roel van Houten]

Re: Godess?

(did you edit your post, because I could have sworn that it said something slightly different just a minute ago? /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif )

You know, there is a search feature on this website.

I know, I had already used the searchfunction and I looked for your question in the concerning post. All I could find was your question "Is this good enough "proof" for you Roel?". I was under the assumption that I already answered your question and I only just realized that although I did reply, I dismissed the rest of the paragraph because I thought it was irrelevant. So this was basically just a misunderstanding. Again, I can assure you that I do not intentionally avoid answering questions.

I also realize I have now answered another question that was not directly related to the Global Consciousness Project.

Whether it meets your standard of proof or not, I'd say it is at least evidence of a non-physical connection of humans, which is what souls and spirits are all about.

I somehow coincedentally answered your question in my post after all, but I guess you must have overread it:

I'd like to further comment on that. I've mentioned previously that I was very interested in your Sea of Energy. My own interpretation of that theory was that the only thing that makes me different from, lets say, a stone is the frequency at which the energy fluctuates. This would imply that although objects and entities don't share the same "frequencies", they are indeed connected. I personally don't think this theory needs a deity or creator for it to be true.

So yes, the link you provided does a reasonable job meeting my standard of proof. However, I do not accept it as proof for the existence of a deity.

Mazzel

 

[RainmanTime]

However, since we can't sense these things, there's no way in telling WHAT exactly is going on. Consequently, it is impossible to claim the existence of a deity based on what we CAN'T sense.

Are you so sure we can't sense it? This also goes back to a point I have made in the past about how our modes of "reason" which we are brought up in teach us to interpret our senses in linear ways. As I have said before: We seem to perceive time as linear, but all the evidence around us in the universe tells us that linearity is a small subset of all the phenomenon in the universe. Our brain is trained to reject non-linearities. Furthermore, for the longest time, mankind was intensely focused on creating control systems that linearized the phenomenon they were intended to control. This was due to the fact that it was "easier" to produce linear control laws because the chaos inherent in any system made it too difficult to understand and/or control non-linearities.

Then, along came Chaos Theory. It explained non-linearity to us in a way that we never understood before. It showed us how complex phenomenon in the universe are based on closed-loop feedback. Now, we are developing control systems that no longer "throw away" the non-linear effects of nature. Instead, we are developing control systems that actually exploit those non-linearities to achieve orders of magnitudes of improved performance. An excellent example are the cells phones which are ubiquitous in our lives. Ever wonder what technology permitted them to get smaller and use less power? Chaos theory and fractals is the answer. The antenna inside your cell phones use a form of the Sierpinski Gasket (a fractal) in order to improve signal-to-noise performance. This allows the receiver to use less power, and a smaller antenna, and still discriminate the cell phone signal from the background noise.

The purpose of sharing this example is to highlight that science has achieved improvements (and come to understand things they could not "see" or "prove") by exploiting non-linearities. The same holds true of how we use our senses. If you continue to insist on rejecting non-linear phenomenon as proof just because your mind tells you linear phenomenon is "reality" then you will never be able to find "proof" of a creator. This is why it takes a shift in one's thinking and one's means of perceiving in order to achieve experiences that "prove" there is a God. This is also why I can confidently tell you that what I am saying is truth, and not just what I "think" I have experienced. I have trained my senses to perceive some things in a non-linear fashion. It has allowed me to open up faculties in my brain that I never knew I had (and years ago would never have admitted were "real").

Here is a good, and simple, example of retraining your brain to perceive non-linearly. Do you know those weird pictures that are produced that you have to "de-focus" your eyes in order to "see" the 3-D image embedded in them? When a person has finally achieved this ability, and they can "see" the 3-D object, what they have essentially done is overcome the linear integration of their two eyes that your brain has trained itself to perform automatically. When you "see" in this manner, you are exploiting non-linearity.

RMT

 

[RainmanTime]

Re: Godess?

did you edit your post, because I could have sworn that it said something slightly different just a minute ago?

YUP! :D

So yes, the link you provided does a reasonable job meeting my standard of proof. However, I do not accept it as proof for the existence of a deity.

Wonderful! Thanks for clarifying. I didn't expect you to accept it as proof of God, which is why I said:

So let's not jump directly to God just yet.

In fact, I would not even expect you to accept the GCP statistics as even "conclusive proof" that we possess a soul and a spirit. However, if you at least accept it as evidence that there is some non-physical interconnection of beings that could be explained by the concepts of non-physical souls and spirits, then you are seeing data that may assist in broadening your view of "what is out there that we cannot perceive through normal, linear faculties."

There are passages in the mystical Qabalah that speak of a great "Sea of Energy" that can be tapped into as a means to enhance one's creative abilities. Many of us who have studied Qabalah in order to find parallels with science are of the increasing opinion that the recent discoveries of the effects of "dark energy" are describing this phenomenon discussed in the mystical Qabalah. If this "dark energy" can affect things in the physical universe, and we can also see statistical significance in data from GCP that "something non-physical" can affect isolated computers that are computing random number sequences.... could there be correlations here? It's not really so "far out" to think so, given that both of these phenomenon escape perception by our physical senses.

If the "Sea of Energy" that affects those computers MIGHT be aligned with the spiritual energy of all beings (living and/or dead), then it could be possible that this "Sea of Energy" could be cohered to perform other, more powerful, acts of creation.

Now, you may dispute that there is no "proof" for some of the these thoughts that I have extrapolated from the GCP data and dark energy findings. But if you accept the GCP data as "some proof" that we may possess spirits, and that these spirits can work together to create effects in the physical world.... I'd say you are walking down a path that could lead to other "proof" and realizations.

Here are some recent quotes from John Marburger, Director, Office of Science and Technology Policy Executive Office of the President, at a recent meeting of Fermilab users:

"Unambiguous traces of dark matter, lots of it, and the apparent need for an enormous quantity of
"dark energy," plus the existence of ordinary matter in amounts exceeding what we can explain by the Standard Model, all add up to an embarrassing ignorance of the substance of the universe."

and

"Apparently we humans are living in the fine structure of the ground state of a stupendous system of condensed matter dominated by fields that we have not yet identified. The success of the Standard Model,however, gives us confidence that field theory is a good framework for the next stage of discovery."

This is why I am confident we are living in a very important time, and why we will soon reach a much more comprehensive view of our reality. Such a drastic change COULD catch an awful lot of people by surprise, which is why myself (and many others) are attempting to prepare people for what we believe is ahead of us.

RMT

 

[RainmanTime]

Another fine post, OvrLrdLegion. May I? /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I still dismiss those components that don't "feel" right and infuse other concepts into my path.

As it should be, IMHO. Wouldn't we all feel more secure in a house that we have built with our own material and knowledge, instead of wondering if someone else used the right parts and processes?

The TOL provided the needed structure as far as mapping out a path to actually travel, knowing from where I started, to where I am going.

This also parallels my path and understanding. My greatest "a ha" was in realizing that "made in Their own image and likeness" is described by the structure of the TOL as incarnate in the human body. This is what opened my own pathway, and this is what motivates me to share this knowledge with anyone who is interested. To me, it is not so much about showing people that there is a God, or showing them the way to God, as it is about helping them craft some tools that could enrich their lives of creation.

RMT

 

[RainmanTime]

Re: Godess?

You can't blame me for thinking that Quabalah is a religion, can you?

Of course not! /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif Many people do believe that this is the only way such knowledge is used. But speaking again of sounding condescending, it did sound as if you were going in this direction with your initial pronouncements of Qabalah.

Part of my "mission" (or so I believe) is to separate the mystical/religious contexts of Qabalah from those of the practical and scientific applications of this knowledge. I probably have just as much distaste for the "old" religions of control as you do, Roel. That is why I may sometimes sound forceful in trying to convince people to look at Qabalah in a different way from the things they may have heard about it.

Here is something that I found interesting that you and others may wish to consider: Qabalah is based on ancient Hebrew traditions from well before the time of Christ. In fact, there are those who connect the 10 commandments given to Moses as the "extant" version of the Tree Of Life, while the "inner knowledge" was actually that of Qabalah. Certainly, there are at least indications that Christ may have also been a practicing Qabalist, as well as the Essenes. And then we have the history of the Gnostic sect of the early Catholic Church. Given all this history of the Qabalah in various religious/spiritual traditions, don't you find it the least bit odd that neither Qabalah nor the Tree Of Life shows up ANYWHERE in the official canon of the Catholic/Christian bible? Not only that, but this knowledge is never taught in any mainstream Christian churches of today, and even large portions of Judiasm have dropped it.

Perhaps this is yet another sign of religious institutions who wished to control their masses, and therefore denied them some of the most powerful knowledge of their heritage. Knowledge which tells you that we all ARE of the body of God, and that each of us can use these tools of knowledge to craft our own spiritual path of enlightenment.

Just some thoughts...
RMT

 

[RainmanTime]

Then what DOES transcribe reality perfectly and/or accurately? If we can't perceive things the way they really are, that would also aply to your theories, thoughts and believes! God, Quabalah, the Tree-of-Life; they might all be one big illusion!

Yes, it might be one big illusion. However, my "theories" about Qabalah and Tree Of Life have come not solely from my physical perceptions. Certainly, that is where they began, for when I started studying Qabalah in 1982, I was also rooted firmly in my senses, and rejecting my Catholic upbringing. My theories and realizations have come as a result of reaching inward and upward... up the Tree Of Life, to give you a visual picture. Each time I was able to align something from mystical Qabalah texts with something in the world of science, I "cross-checked" it by going within... by taking my meditative path up beyond my concsious self, into my soul, and "presenting" this knowledge up to the "altar" (speaking metaphorically) of my spirit. It was only when it literally resonated through my whole being that I accepted the correlations I had made as "truth". In fact, this was how I came to the realization that the act of dreaming is a tool available to all of us for creation, as it represents activity between the soul and the conscious mind via the pathways connecting the middle and lower triad on the TOL. I have been able to exercise a fair amount of control over my dreams, and what then comes to manifest in my physical life, as a result of these correlations. You don't have to believe it... but if it WERE true, wouldn't you like to figure out how to accomplish the same thing? (Not that I could teach you how... but could show you how to teach yourself.)

And the thing is, you're so convinced of your own right that you'll maintain that it is THE truth. Fact is, that a huge amount of people don't accept that as the truth, which reduces your truth to a theory. Some people claim they've been abducted by aliens. Obviously they think it's true, since it was their experience. That doesn't mean, however, that the rest of the world has to accept it as the truth.

You only need to shift your point of view... Ignore the fact that you may have never been abducted by aliens. Imagine that you DID experience this. Would it not be absolute truth for you? Certainly, if you were the one to directly experience this, it would become true. At this point, does it even matter that anyone else does not accept it as truth? It is true, and you know it. It has become your gnosis. The same is true of mine (and others) experiences with our immortality. So yes, I am so convinced that I am right, and that it is THE truth. I don't care that it is not your truth, but I do care enough ABOUT you that if you wish "proof of the divine" I am going to do my best to show you how to find it on your own. But as I have said before, I cannot do it for you... I can only draw the pictures... you have to integrate them for youself and craft your own path. It sounds like all the same old mysticism, I know. But think about this: The concept of personal truth, as separate and distinct from someone else's accepted truth aligns completely with my 3x3 Matrix of Massive SpaceTime, and the cartesian coordinate systems we both drew for Mass, Space, and Time. Recall how I mentioned that "I" (self) is at the origin point of the 3-D Time field? That would constitute the self-referenced point of truth from which you experience.

Weave this together with my discussions about how we all need to learn to "transcend" the forced-linearity of our perceptions, and if you begin to teach yourself to perceive in non-linear ways, I am confident that you will be able to create the same experiences that I (and many others) have that have convinced us of the TRUTH of the spiritual world... and yes, the higher-level creator system... that some call God.

It's not that I dont WANT to believe, I just need an indication that there is something to believe in!

Very well. But sometimes one needs to get up off their stool and have a look around in different "places" to find those indications. Can you possibly accept that there are "extended" ways of perceiving beyond the linear? If we use the analogy that you, sitting on your stool, is Roel perceiving in his "normal" linear manner, then can you see that you may have to stretch yourself off that stool, and learn to perceive in non-linear ways to find the indications you seek?

In fact... you live in a culture that has learned to accept a few of the many ways to perceive in non-linear ways. Smoking a joint, or enjoying a mind-blowing orgasm. One is chemically induced, one is naturally induced... but they are only two of MANY ways to perceive non-linearly. In fact, there is an entire "sex magic" ritual that aligns with the Tree Of Life that is quite amazing and can lead to something much more satisfying and meaningful than the simple physical orgasm!

And....isn't in interesting how so many people call out the name of God at the point of orgasm? Even atheists and agnostics! :D Maybe there is a clue in just that! /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif

RMT

 

[KerrTexas]

Re: Godess?

a religion? You say you don't need to believe in a supernatural power to understand and apply the Quabalah, yet you say you believe in a form of God. You can't blame me for thinking that Quabalah is a religion, can you?

Why don't you read it yourself and form your conclusions after you have seen it.

I guess we will see the exact same things as we do now, only in greater detail. Perhaps we'd be able to actually SEE the difference between hot and cold. Or maybe we'll discover a whole set of "attributes" we never could have imagined. I can also imagine we could visualize that we are indeed more or less "interconnected". The problem is: we don't know. It's nice to theorize about it, but since we can't see these higher frequencies we can't really conclude anything from them.

I have been told by experts in the field, that birds can hear the sun rising. It would be interesting to easily see the energy patterns etched within and surrounding all things. Of course, you could do that now. One of the goals of meditation and ascendance upon the TOL is an increased awareness. This is one of the things I have been reffering to as experience. The fact ( yes, fact ) of the connection of all creation becomes clearer as ones awareness expands beyond one's own mental chatter, ego, and "veils" created within ones consciousness.

It is like when you see something of great interest and attempt to point it out to someone with you. "Hey, Joe, check out that wierd plane in the sky". No matter how much you try to tell where Joe to look, for whatever reason, he can't see it. It becomes frustrating because you want to share the moment with Joe as you are experiencing it.

This is some of the frustration that I believe is coming across on these posts. It is an attempt to share those things experienced, and want you to experience the same. However, some frustration is from being refuted when research isn't a mutual endeavor. I am still reading some the information Trollface used as his sources, to better understand his position. How can I debate with Trollface if I dont really know from where he has received his information? And perhaps I was incorrect and need to know this too, and will admit it when I discover it to be so.

 

[KerrTexas]

To me, it is not so much about showing people that there is a God, or showing them the way to God, as it is about helping them craft some tools that could enrich their lives of creation.

Yes, you put that in excellent terms. Everyone experiences life as an individual, everyone views creation from their own perception and for anyone to state that the perception is flat out wrong, is doing that individual a disservice. No matter what is said, unless proof is provided, then nothing will change except ones "view" of the person trying to cause change.

However, if a doorway is opened and the individual refuses to see what is beyond the doorway... then it becomes frustrating to say the least, and that individual is doing him/herself a disservice.

 

[KerrTexas]

Re: Godess?

I just wanted to add that my respect for you, Roel, has increased quite a bit lately. I thought I had you boxed in ( as Rainman can atest too ) and was pleasantly suprised at the dexterity you demonstrated in your replies.

I feel I have gotten to know you that much more in this thread and hope you are having some fun with it too.

 

[KerrTexas]

Then what DOES transcribe reality perfectly and/or accurately? If we can't perceive things the way they really are, that would also aply to your theories, thoughts and believes! God, Quabalah, the Tree-of-Life; they might all be one big illusion!

It maybe an illusion. But an illusion that enriched and influenced the following people....



Sir Francis Bacon, Leonardo da Vinci, Cornelius Heinrich Agrippa, John of the Cross, Jacob Boehme, Rene Descartes, Blaise Pascal, Baruch Spinoza, Isaac Newton, Gottfried Wilhelm Spinoza, Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Jefferson, Michael Faraday, Marie Corelli, Claude DeBussey, Erik Satie, Edith Piaf, Thomas Paine, Thales, Pythagoras, Plotinus, Francoiz Rabelais, Theresa of Avila, Raymond Lully, John Reuchlin, John Picus de Mirandola, John Baptist von Helmont, Robert Fludd, Dr. Henry More

 

[nicknack]

No. In fact, to me, the Judeo-Christian god makes even less sense than any other concept.

Interesting, to what extent do you make this statement?

"The Age that man grasp the concept of God."

"I can barely understand God, but I have faith?"

The word 'grasp', barely reaches the term of understand. God of course was superior, but until now, even christians, who dare says they understand the Almighty God and his purposes? I understand the concept of God, but I do not know his purpose, that is why I leave it to him.

That's the most important thing in life. I feel exactly the seem way!

Christian or not. That's the best way to be alive.

Again, when the Bible had been written, Man had reached the Age of Reason.

Ah. The Cannonial test, you speak of? I've studied the book of Enoch, and it is very interesting especially when this website potrays it.
Echoes of Enoch

Yes. The Bible is edited. Yes it is written by Man. But have you forgotten that the Bible was written and edited by Man who believed in God. It was the Holy Spirit that guided them to compile the Bible. You are right, the authors were made up of several man holding different positions in churches and they were called to have a cannonial test to compile the Bible and to compile what the group deemed fit.

The New Age, is what I prefer to call "Old Teachings". After all, its basis comes from the historical teachings of several infused religions and its teachings.

 

[KerrTexas]

The New Age, is what I prefer to call "Old Teachings". After all, its basis comes from the historical teachings of several infused religions and its teachings.

" New Age was primarily a movement amongst the younger generation in the late sixties that demanded to play a greater part in all aspects of society. Through the use of mind-expanding drugs a greater reality was being unfolded to them that called for other explanations than traditional religion could give. Its concepts of God and Love were too narrow to accommodate the overwhelming experiences they had on their trips. Transcendence, self-realisation, yoga, meditation, all part of existing traditions, were being rediscovered and practised.

Originally it had been given the name: the Age of Aquarius to signify the new era of spiritual enfoldment as foretold in astrology.
In the early seventies, when the movement was well on its way, the name New Age was adopted." -- Michael Rogge, June 1996

This has been my understanding of the "New Age". This was how I first became involved in pursuit of spiritual "enlightenment". Excluding the use of drugs for mind expansion, I dabbled in the rest. The mere surface of it resulted in the same feelings as with the church, there has got to be more to all this stuff.

I suppose as an all encompassing definition all ancient teachings can be headed under the New Age movement, but I find it difficult to compare philosophies that began when man first started to think about creation to the modern movements. Rooted in ancient knowledge, I believe most New Age practitioners to be doing it as a hobby, not for serious emersion into creation.

Many associates involved with deeper study of the Arts have this to say regarding the New Age practitioners.."As it is, there is already to many children, who dapple in the lower formations of subtler energies, without any real knowledge of what they are doing. Those energies come to be abused, and in that, create an imbalance, which may unleash unforeseeable repercussions".--Suba ( High Magick: The Elemental Adept )

As time passes and one moves further into the mysteries of the ancient teachings I believe that the New Age portion is left behind and one enters into a very different realm of understanding. Some of the methods, regardless of the terminology, assist one with confronting the "demons" within. The negative emotions and concepts created through our journey in life have set patterns of destructive habits within our subconscious. To have a more serene life, peaceful and void of prejudice, one has to eliminate those thought patterns from within their structure of mind. The methods presented in many Eastern and Western "occult" philosophies provide one with the tools to "enlighten" oneself, and break the chains of negative/destructive patterns.

It is interesting to see the mis-understandings that rise up when relating concepts from the Kabbalah and other sources. When mentioning the elements as Rainman did, the idea of four basic elements fire, earth, water and air, most assume that is what is actually meant by the mention of the basic elements within creation. If one looks deeper into the actual meaning, it becomes clearer as to what is meant.

The actual elements being refered to are: expansion, contracting ,circulating and grounding.
(Please note; even this is merely the surface and there is much more involved than just what I have written regarding the basic elements.)
Science claims to "discover" new data regarding existence of things, when these concepts have been known in deeper "occult" circles for some time.

What becomes difficult is being able to post knowledge (L)earned since it involves years of study and discipline.

But have you forgotten that the Bible was written and edited by Man who believed in God.

And influenced by men in power and politics. The Gospel of Thomas does away with man needing a structured, organized, political church system to find Jesus, so it is no wonder it was excluded from the modern Bible.

 

[creedo299]

To ovrlegions last comment>Correction the term New Ago actually means the post time, after beings from Sirius B shot a special memory awakening beam into our central sun, in the 1900s.

 

[creedo299]

The nature of said beam, did not effect the operation of Earths central sun, that I know of.

The changes started to come in the early 1980s, with lots of people, recalling past existence venues.

These remembrances became greater and greater, till about the mid 1980s when author A.Z. Knight, recalled of once being a past Atlantian Warrior, in the middle moral era of Atlantis.

She held conferences in public and in detail told of the many intricacies of past Atlantian life.

Many had looked on the New Age occurrences, as a tutee fruitie sort of era, which first started out with honesty and then had transgressed into a money making deal, which had soured many to what even the concept of New Age could be?

New Age really means nothing.

All this term could denote, is the effects of a self memory effacing beam, shot into the sun, so Earth-people could at least have some idea, of who they once were?

 

[KerrTexas]

Not really a reply, but just an afterthought.

I sometimes hang out in AOL chatrooms, glutten for punishment I guess, but it amazes me how some people understand ( or don't ) what the Bible is hinting at....

" What kind of apple did Adam and Eve eat, Green or Red?"

The apple is a metaphor for something God told Adam and Eve not to concern themselves with. Not a piece of fruit.


" How can Adam and Eve be the first humans, how did their offspring find others to marry?"

The whole story is not just a focus on origins of creation.*( Which also is a metaphor) The story also points out that man was not accepting responsibilty for his actions.
When God asked Adam why he ate the fruit from the tree of Knowledge, Adam pointed at Eve..."She made me do it, and You were the one that made her, if You hadn't of made her, God, I wouldn't have even thought about doing what You told me not to do"!

God asked Eve the same question..." The serpent made me do it, it wasnt my fault, if You hadn't let the serpent into the garden, I wouldnt have even thought about doing what You told me not to do"!
I wonder how different things might be if they said" Yeah, We did it! Couldn't help ourselves. Looked so good. Sorry!"

"Well, if God punished Adam and Eve with Death, how come they were still alive"?

Instant death wasnt the punishment. Adam and Eve were to have the gift of eternal life, but refusing to accept responsibility for their actions, God removed the gift of eternity from them.
As in real life, if you can not accept responsibilty for your actions, then premature death is a likely result, as many an addict has found out when they blamed everybody else for their habits.
Repenting is merely accepting ones responibilty of their actions, and owning the consequences that result . The world would be a better place if everybody stopped pointing fingers at their neighbors...and pointed it where the real problems come from, within themselves.

I keep hoping that one day all the wars that are being waged in many parts of the world, will end when the people stop and realize that whatever happened in the past is done. Killing your neighbors wont change your history... Time to move on!

 

[creedo299]

Re: Greasons why

To answer your questions as nobody seems to be even interested in what your said Ovrl.

I think the color of the apple was green as other colors were only developed by man later on?

2.By technicality, they were.

They were proto-species man, which meant that they were starting to developed into their societal self adult neuroses.

3.You don't know God.

God as I understand him to be, is at time pastoral and likes simply to have companionship only.

What the casting of early man out of the Garden Of Eden means, is the time that this N_species were in development that they no longer required the Garden and subsequently ask to move out and beyond that place.

They think the Garden Of Eden was located west of modern day Iraq, as told by Shuttle imagery.

I just about freaked out when the U.S. was going to invade Iraq, on those grounds only.

In historie's sense, this is a very fragile area.

The people are also much different than can be accounted for.It is hard to socially understand them at times, as one minute they seem very pliable and then tense the next.

western Iraq is the birthplace of the modern bible and we attacked it.

This is only one version of mankind.

There are many others, such as Atlantians and beings from other worlds, who have either settled here, or mixed in with this culture.

My comments here to any spook viewing this page, were only answers to Ovrlegions biblical questions.

Thank you

 

[KerrTexas]

Re: Greasons why

Thank-You for replying.
Perhaps the Garden of Eden actually exists within another plane of existence, and when man was cast out, "God" shifted them through time and space to arrive in a remote place on this version of Earth.