Experiment with Time, your assistance is requested
- Thread starter Sol
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Peter_Novak
Quantum Scribe
Sorry. I'm making assumptions and not sharing them.
I figured the only way an invasion could occur would be if it was an invasion of American forces into the big cities : FEMA, the Guard, groups like that.
If TSHTF, that seems a reasonable consequence to me.
BTW, see the latest on the collapse in today's news, at
http://market-ticker.org/archives/852-Whats-Dead-Short-Answer-All-Of-It.html
Even so, though, that scenario would not in and of itself account for billions dying.
Would it?
How much is America propping up? What happens if we stop propping it up? If America falls, does the whole world follow?
I figured the only way an invasion could occur would be if it was an invasion of American forces into the big cities : FEMA, the Guard, groups like that.
If TSHTF, that seems a reasonable consequence to me.
BTW, see the latest on the collapse in today's news, at
http://market-ticker.org/archives/852-Whats-Dead-Short-Answer-All-Of-It.html
Even so, though, that scenario would not in and of itself account for billions dying.
Would it?
How much is America propping up? What happens if we stop propping it up? If America falls, does the whole world follow?
reactor1967
Quantum Scribe
Well not true. Would a country use nukes on its own soil against it own population? Would a country use nukes knowing that the invading country has them too? Did the light bulb come on yet?
And, if your talking about Iran or North Korea they would just go to their bomb shelters and resume business as usual after it was all over. It would take a while for their country to recover but it would be worth it to them to take out one American city. No decision another country makes is always sane. They have logic to their decisions no matter how twisted it is.
Peter_Novak
Quantum Scribe
Yeah, but we're not talking about "taking out" one or more American cities. We are talking about a massive invasion and occupation of American cities. I can't think of any foreign power that has the strength to accomplish that. I mean, we may be in a new Great Depression, but we still possess the same military strength. No group or nation can go head-to-head against America, and I can't see that any Depression is going to change that fact much.
Neither Iran nor NKorea have the resources to invade the US. No one does, except FEMA, the National Guard, and the US Military.
There is already public unrest in Algeria, Armenia, Ireland, Media, India, Pakistan, Malaysia, Kenya and other places because of this economic collapse. The question is, arte they the canaries in the coal mine, or just meaningless noise? You can bet that the US Government is trying to figure that out. Either way, they're going to want to be ready with plans in case it happens here.
Hell, Obama is pretty pro-active, so he might even send in the troops before any unrest got very bad here, in a "for your own good" attempt to keep things from getting out of control.
I don't like the bit about citizens not being able to leave the cities after the invasion. But that would explain the other bit about massive exoduses of American citizens to Mexico and Canada.
RainmanTime
Super Moderator
Not only that, but those of us who are armed and adamant supporters of the 2nd Amendment, are also very aware of the various reasons our founding fathers wanted to protect our right to bear arms. Beyond our military strength, any foreign government would be nuts to attempt an invasion of a country where there is a great potential that over 50% of the population is armed. We responsible gun owners know that this is one reason America will always be safe, and why if any government ever does try to take our firearms away, is the day when we are weakened as a country and more susceptible to a foreign invasion. Any foreign power invading Southern California is going to lose quite a few soliders just trying to take my home!
It is not as easy as you make it sound. Obama would first have to suspend the Posse Comitatus Act, which prevents US military forces from being used as police forces on US soil unless and until he receives a request from a state's governor. After that, he would then have to enact martial law. It would be quite ironic for a socialist-leaning (but denying) Democratic president like Obama to suspend Posse Comitatus and then enact martial law. If he ever did, and it was not a dire emergency, then there would be no better time for unarmed people to arm themselves....if that option had not already been taken away!
RMT
Maybe not.
Posse Comitatus from wikipedia:
This Act was almost thouroughly repealed by Public Law 109-364, or the "John Warner Defense Authorization Act of 2007" (H.R.5122) (2), which was signed by President George W. Bush on October 17th, 2006, in a private Oval Office ceremony. This act allows the President to declare a "public emergency" and station troops anywhere in America and take control of state-based National Guard units without the consent of the governor or local authorities, in order to "suppress public disorder."
Posse Comitatus wikipedia entry
Packerbacker
Quantum Scribe
Re: Experiment with Time, your assistance is reque
Does the "Great ReCLAMation" have anything to do with Clamorian returning?
Does the "Great ReCLAMation" have anything to do with Clamorian returning?
RainmanTime
Super Moderator
timeloop:
You did not read far enough, nor did you bother to look at the details of later legislation:
1) From the wiki you cited about 2006 changes to Posse Comitatus:
<font color="red"> "This was repealed in 2008 by HR 4986: National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2008 (full text). See Posse Comitatus Act and Insurrection Act." [/COLOR]
2) From the referenced law made effective in 2008:
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h110-4986&tab=summary
<font color="red"> "Section 1068 -
Revises federal provisions concerning the use of the Armed Forces in major public emergencies to discontinue the executive authority to deploy active and reserve personnel during domestic response incidents. Repeals the authority of the President to direct the Secretary to provide supplies, services, and equipment to persons affected by major public emergencies. " [/COLOR]
RMT
You did not read far enough, nor did you bother to look at the details of later legislation:
1) From the wiki you cited about 2006 changes to Posse Comitatus:
<font color="red"> "This was repealed in 2008 by HR 4986: National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2008 (full text). See Posse Comitatus Act and Insurrection Act." [/COLOR]
2) From the referenced law made effective in 2008:
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h110-4986&tab=summary
<font color="red"> "Section 1068 -
Revises federal provisions concerning the use of the Armed Forces in major public emergencies to discontinue the executive authority to deploy active and reserve personnel during domestic response incidents. Repeals the authority of the President to direct the Secretary to provide supplies, services, and equipment to persons affected by major public emergencies. " [/COLOR]
RMT
RainmanTime
Super Moderator
Re: Experiment with Time, your assistance is reque
I hope, I hope, I hope, I hope, I hope, I hope, I hope, I hope, I hope, I hope, I hope, I hope, I hope, I hope, I hope, I hope, I hope, I hope, I hope, I hope, I hope, I hope, I hope, I hope, I hope, I hope, I hope, I hope, I hope, I hope, I hope, I hope, I hope, I hope, I hope, I hope, I hope, I hope, I hope, I hope.
I loved that clam!
RMT
I hope, I hope, I hope, I hope, I hope, I hope, I hope, I hope, I hope, I hope, I hope, I hope, I hope, I hope, I hope, I hope, I hope, I hope, I hope, I hope, I hope, I hope, I hope, I hope, I hope, I hope, I hope, I hope, I hope, I hope, I hope, I hope, I hope, I hope, I hope, I hope, I hope, I hope, I hope, I hope.
I loved that clam!
RMT
Peter_Novak
Quantum Scribe
Well, we know that FEMA is empowered to enter a region and forceably take away the citizen's firearms; we saw that happen in Katrina. And in the event of real unrest, the armed populace will probably actually hasten Governors' pleas to the Feds to use National Guard troops in their states. The European think tank LEAP/Europe 2020 recently concluded that many in America would be so disturbed by the unrest that they would leave their homes and cities to escape the rioting and crime, becoming dislocated people. See http://www.blacklistednews.com/news-3479-0-13-13--.html
And in the event of a national emergency, such as a declaration of Force Majeure on debt for example, with massive and widespread unrest in numerous cities, I'm just not all that sure that the government would need to use a legally valid reason to suspend the Posse Comitatus Act. All they would need to have is a stated reason, any stated reason at all, then declare the Act suspended, and then declare that if their stated reason for suspending it isn't legally sound, that is something for the Courts to decide at a later point in time, and in the meantime, the nation needs to fall in line.
In times of crisis, alot of the people wouldn't care much about legal technicalities anyway, and would just want their law and order back, at any price.
In any event, this may all be a moot point, as FEMA seems to already have all the power and authority needed to occupy US cities whenever the President asks them to. In a real pinch, I suppose the President could even reassign troops out of the military and into FEMA as he wished, to get around any legalities about not using US troops.
But just because there's a law on the books doesn't mean that the government is gonna follow it in a time of crisis. Remember all the Japanese-American citizens in US prison camps during WWII? That wasn't legal, but it happened just the same.
I don't think a President has to officially declare Martial Law anymore. I think using FEMA allows him to get around that and still achieve the same end. Sorta the same way that the President is now able to wage wars without actually needing congress to "Declare War" anymore.
And since Congress has both suspended and then reinstated the Posse Comitatus Act in the last few years, it could certainly flip-flop it off again at a moment's notice if necessary.
Micheal_Apathy
Chrono Cadet
amen
RainmanTime
Super Moderator
The difference, Peter, is that, as always, you engage in speculation for what you think will happen. I have merely pointed to the laws, as they exist, and how things would have to happen per those existing laws. Not to mention that your speculation about FEMA is way, way off.
Same type of speculation you do with the now dead Zeshua story. Your life is quite dark, it seems. That's too bad.
RMT
Peter_Novak
Quantum Scribe
http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=^DJI#chart2:symbol=^dji;range=my;indicator=volume;charttype=line;crosshair=on;ohlcvalues=0;logscale=off;source=undefined
The recession is in its 15th month, making it longer than all but two downturns since World War II. Everything seems to be getting worse: the DJIA is in free fall, tens of thousands of jobs are vanishing every day, and 1 in 8 American homeowners is in foreclosure or behind on payments. Unemployment hit 8.1 percent, a 25-year peak, and the nation has lost 4.4 million jobs. Experts think the economy will probably shed 2.4 million additional jobs this year. The median price of a US home fell 26 percent from a year and a half earlier. During the Great Depression, home prices only fell 30%, but the Fed thinks that home prices could fall another 18 to 29 percent more by the end of 2010. The Dow has lost more than half their value since the stock market peaked in October 2007.
Thank goodness Ray thinks that it's just Pete's life that is dark, and not the world.
RainmanTime
Super Moderator
Exactly. It truly is all about attitude how one deals with life's tests. Ask anyone who became well-off in real estate and/or the stock markets and they will tell you that you don't take actions to become wealthy when markets are at their tops. Quite the contrary. It is the actions of people in stocks and real estate now... right now... that will ensure their success and prosperity in the future. And that level of prosperity stems from one thing: their ability to see this time as an opportunity, rather than a crisis. The peddlers of poverty are the only ones who want you to see this time as a crisis. And oddly enough, those poverty peddlers make their money as leeches off of the very people they convince to be "scared".
Hence, because of your continual negative interpretations of the future, one could logically assume that you have a financial stake in people who swallow your interpretations. If you don't then your negative attitude will only serve to ensure your own future poverty and work to enrich others who will profit off of you. The fact you seem to have not figured this out speaks to your outlook on life.
As always, it is your free will and how you use it that determines your own personal future. I am working to ensure my success by looking for the deals in today's economy. You? Well, it is obvious what you are doing. Hope you are having fun!
RMT
ruthless
Rift Surfer
Re: Experiment with Time, your assistance is reque
thats the point right there.
pete, look at the .gif in the bottom right corner. the guy is flat on his back, and to a normal person, in the most dire of positions. he DIDNT say, "this guy is fixing to pound me. crap." he said, "i wont give up, no matter what."
think about what you would do in that situation, and how that directly relates to what all of us have been trying to tell you.
thats the point right there.
pete, look at the .gif in the bottom right corner. the guy is flat on his back, and to a normal person, in the most dire of positions. he DIDNT say, "this guy is fixing to pound me. crap." he said, "i wont give up, no matter what."
think about what you would do in that situation, and how that directly relates to what all of us have been trying to tell you.
An experimenter is not allowed to answer questions about an experiment when said questions are posed by the subjects of the experiment unless answering such a question was laid out in the design of the experiment. Since I am also a subject of this experiment, I am allowed to give you this answer. Sadly, I probably nullified the hypothesis by doing so.
When do these electric shocks stop? /ttiforum/images/graemlins/frown.gif
Darby
Epochal Historian
timeloop,
In a blind experiment that is true. But in the case where the experimenter declares that the subjects are part of an experiment it's no longer a "blind subject" situation. If the design calls for simultaneously declaring that the subjects are part of an experiment and the experimenter can't answer questions about the experiment the design had better be very tightly constructed and the researcher has to absolutely be an expert and able to honestly discern researcher bias and experimental "noise". Otherwise s/he will have no idea whether the result is unaffected by the declaration "this is an experiment" or if it has taken its natural course.
In a blind experiment that is true. But in the case where the experimenter declares that the subjects are part of an experiment it's no longer a "blind subject" situation. If the design calls for simultaneously declaring that the subjects are part of an experiment and the experimenter can't answer questions about the experiment the design had better be very tightly constructed and the researcher has to absolutely be an expert and able to honestly discern researcher bias and experimental "noise". Otherwise s/he will have no idea whether the result is unaffected by the declaration "this is an experiment" or if it has taken its natural course.