You all made a difference.

i agree with you darby. but you have to admit that that statement does hold some truth. even scientists bicker amongst themselves about what is fact, and even you have stated that physics is incomplete.

i think science, along with everything else in this world goes by your credentials. im not saying thats a bad thing, but it can be, and alot of people who have just as much potential get left behind.

now, before rmt jumps in and tells me life is what you make of it, some people just do not have that luxury. psychology plays a big role in things. for instance, a person may be able to have the focus and drive to get a degree, get a job of their chosen profession, and someday teach what he was taught. but if you take this person and drop him in south central l.a., he would suddenly become a deer in headlights.(with no "hood" credentials btw) and vice versa for the kid from south central l.a. you drop him in a college atmosphere only knowing what he was raised to know, next thing you know, the whole school is wanting him banned for his wild and unruly actions. but to him, he was straightening his life up, and doing the best he could with what he had and knew.

so, to me, there is a double standard. in my opinion, people should be hired or fired based on their potential. i'd take a bright eyed, ready to face any challenge type of youngster over a bored, burnt out guy with 40 diplomas on his wall thats forgot more than half of what earned him those any day of the week.

i myself know that the only way to make it is to conform to the rules of the world, but that still does not make the rules right.
 
and for the record, i am not taking up for hdrkid, nor do i believe anything he/she says about remote viewing. i dont believe in remote viewing at all to be honest. nothing against hdrkid, i just dont believe in it. but i do believe that he/she brought up a good talking point.
 
ruthless,

i agree with you darby. but you have to admit that that statement does hold some truth. even scientists bicker amongst themselves about what is fact, and even you have stated that physics is incomplete.
Click to expand...

You're absolutely correct. Scientists doe have honest differences of opinin over theory.

But the little homily about the Wright Brothers is always presented as if most if not all mid to late 19th Century scientists were of the opinion that powered flight was impossible. It's simply not true as evidenced by the fact that they witnessed it not to be true.

It's generally presented that way by people who want to convince someone else that their quack science "theory" sould be accepted with the same level of credibility as are real scieitific theories.

Toss out a false premise, get people to agree with it and half of the problem is solved. Suddenly it must be true - a garage tinkerer is gifted with the theoretical knowledge and engineering skill to invent cold nuclear fussion and Zero Point Energy time machines because "all the scientists" told the Wright Brothers that powered flight was impossible.
 
so, to me, there is a double standard. in my opinion, people should be hired or fired based on their potential. i'd take a bright eyed, ready to face any challenge type of youngster over a bored, burnt out guy with 40 diplomas on his wall thats forgot more than half of what earned him those any day of the week.
Click to expand...

And in a general sense I agree with you.

An educated burn-out is almost useless. But that's part of supervision. Really good supervisors know how to detect burn-out before it becomes a problem. Great supervisors know how to deal with it so they are able to save the employee. The employee is usually the last person to realize that s/he is burned out.

But there's no substitute for education in science and engineering. Bright eyes and bushy tails is a good start - they might even land a paid apprentice position while they get their education. Many businesses in technology and science offer that progam to the right candidate. But there will be a college education of 2, 4 and up to 8 years in those fields. An AS degree only gets you through the door as a tech.
 
I'm sure that RMT could take the discussion farther because he teaches areodynamics. I assume that he includes the history of flight in his lectures.
Click to expand...

As usual, Darby has his facts dead-on, and he rightly helps us understand the distinction between science and engineering. It only leaves it for me to make the distinction crystal clear. But first...

Not only were the Wright Brothers not the first to achieve sustained, powered flight (they WERE the first one to put a man on the airplane), but many people erroneously will attribute the Wright Brothers with "inventing the airplane". Some will even give that prize to Samuel Langley, another American. But the reality of the situation is that the very first person to separate the issues of "lift" from "thrust" was Sir George Cayley, a Brit. Before he came up with the idea of having power separate from lift generation, all other inventors were trying to create flapping-wing devices which worked like the birds. But as early as the 1800s, Sir George Cayley was envisioning a FIXED WING, with an empennage for stability, and a separate powerplant. He is generally considered the father of the modern, fixed-wing, powered aircraft. The Wright Brothers merely perfected it to the point where people could fly on it!

And the eventual success of the Wright Brothers illustrates the symbiotic and synergistic relationship between scientists and engineers that has been responsible for virtually all modern advances. Without scientists, engineers would be devoid of many "tools" which we use to solve our problems (math in general, and physical equations specifically). But turnabout is fair play: Without engineers, scientists would be theorizing all over the place but would often have a hard time putting their theories into workable, practical devices which test, and ultimately PROVE the correctness of their theories.

The Wright Brothers, while not formally trained in engineering, were without a doubt some of the finest engineers of their day and age. They READ the works of scientists and other experimenters, and then they applied that knowledge in their works. They were master builders. Their ability to physically realize the theories and equations of others into real devices is what ultimately lead them to innovations of their own (wing-warping, which eventually gave rise to the aileron).

Scientists and engineers need each other, and while we often enjoy taking digs at each other, there is also a very deep respect of one for the other. There would be no internet, nor cell phones, nor any one of a number of modern convenienvces, were it not for the work of BOTH scientists AND engineers!

RMT
 
Differences between Work VS Academic

Practical Knowledge – On the job learning in which an undergrad will have no idea since they don’t have practical knowledge to complete the task and not taught at Universities.

Lots of design reviews – We find that senior engineers throw away total design that graduated from universities all the time. Thus they must start over with supervision.

Speed- I heard from a friend working at a game company that a PhD guy would only program 10 lines of code a day and was shortly fired there after.

Note - These are just observation that I made over the years and are not necessarily true for people higher up in the academic ladder.

This whole argument in the future can be about practical knowledge vs. theoretical knowledge in which the both need each other to succeed. Thus work and academic knowledge need each other. Where would an academic scientist be without a computer?

And where would we all be without an education. We all would have no jobs. I found the hardest job is always you first job you just have to roll with the punches.
 
And where would we all be without an education. We all would have no jobs. I found the hardest job is always you first job you just have to roll with the punches.
Click to expand...

Not true, the jobs we would have would be the ones nobody wants. If you want to work, you can find work, anywhere.
 
Practical Knowledge – On the job learning in which an undergrad will have no idea since they don’t have practical knowledge to complete the task and not taught at Universities.
Click to expand...

That is not a wholly correct statement. Most universities which adopt the name "Polytechnic" have as the center of their curriculum "practical, applied knowledge" in the technical arts. The university that I graduated from and teach at strongly espouses a "learn by doing" philosophy:

As one of only six polytechnic universities nationwide, Cal Poly Pomona's hallmark is its learn-by-doing philosophy, directly stemming from its polytechnic mission. By blending theory and practice in all its disciplines, the university recognizes that the students solving classroom problems today will be the employees solving the real-world problems tomorrow. Students are afforded opportunities to apply their knowledge in hands-on projects, collaborate with faculty members on research, and participate in valuable internships and service-learning programs.
Click to expand...

In my program of aerospace engineering, our university has more wind tunnels than any other public (state-run) school in the country. Aerospace employers have recruited heavily from our program because they know students who graduate are ready to "get their hands dirty" and can immediately begin designing and executing wind tunnel test programs. Even the very first class in the curriculum (ARO 101, which I am teaching this quarter) uses a class project of building and flight testing a radio-controlled airplane to give the students practical, hands-on experience.

Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute in upstate New York is another highly esteemed engineering program which turns out students with a lot of practical knowledge and experience.

RMT
 
But there's no substitute for education in science and engineering. Bright eyes and bushy tails is a good start - they might even land a paid apprentice position while they get their education. Many businesses in technology and science offer that progam to the right candidate. But there will be a college education of 2, 4 and up to 8 years in those fields. An AS degree only gets you through the door as a tech.
Click to expand...

This is also very, very true. I have shared with ruthless in PM discussions the story of a very bright young guy who has worked for and with me on several projects at work. He is a "natural" systems engineering thinker. However, he only earned his AS in electronics technology, and does not have a lot of the math he would need to advance. He is actually LUCKY that he got in the door at my employer as an "Engineer-1" and not simply a technician. I have done everything I can to try to encourage him to go back and get his 4 year degree, just because he IS a "natural". But he thinks he doesn't need it. And yet he complains when he never gets promoted to Engineer 2, and so I have to explain to him that he will NEVER get promoted until he gets the degree which shows not only that he has completed the required (and often difficult) math and higher-level engineering courses, but it also exhibits to an employer that you can set your mind to finishing something that is difficult and actually complete it.

This is precisely why I encourage ruthless (and others!) who have natural talent to GET THE DEGREE. I cannot get through to this gentleman that I work with how much it will improve his career outlook. But maybe I can get it through to others (which is also why I teach). Ability and eagerness is not enough. In ANY job you also need the right tools. And the knowledge you get from an engineering/science degree from an accredited university is one very big, and useful tool!
My old man told me something very sagely as I entered college. He said: "An engineering degree does not only teach you specific things about a specific subject. An engineering degree teaches you how to teach yourself anything. It teaches a rigorous process of thought that will aid you in more than just your job." Damn, but the old man was right!! :D

RMT
 
And no, you can never get rid of Drag at any rate but if artificial Gravity was in front of you with more mass to pull you to that point, but the point kept moving out in front of you or the spaceship, you would be Dragged along through SpaceTime.

If anyone wanted me to remember Calculus from over 30 years ago, and the way that the book was at that time - I say -- baloney. It does not mean that anyone else will build a three-window Direct X program with three separate Windows -- you know - like the widescreen movies you can watch on a 4x3 monitor, but most people would have to see why you wanted to build a three-window program in the first place -- that by the way - should work -- with those new LCD widescreens also because it adjusts to any monitor resolution that you are using. The rest is harder because the rest of the program also has to be programmed by being all "Relative" as to the output to show the program as a kind of widescreen movie projection in the first place. Simply, it probably takes too long to program it, like some old computer games -- but games that still are played to this day, because after three years of programming -- nothing else -- even if it was not quite correct in the first place with all the physics -- it still is considered -- to have been -- a Classic Computer Game, that even in the Atari -- will still sell online -- to make some money -- being in the State of the Company that they are now. Then, shutting down, the people who are still amused with it all -- still equate to that double standard -- they could upgrade the darn program - and make it more modern - which they will not -- because they do own the copyright - but still insist that in the end it will not make them much money - but they still will spend money to shut down - the double standard of making it free - even after 14 years - of this old game.

Unfortunately, I threw the Windows Collector's Edition out with an old CD-Rom drive by mistake being in a hurry - and I wish I did not, but I still have the game on my computer - it needs no CD to run - but it runs too fast, so I still have the ms-dos version of the original game - lacking a couple of screens for the alien bases even that have to be downloaded - because it was not even made correct originally with the original CD disk, but still people will still play the old game despite what is going on -- it is like history - the ideals may have been there, but someone else - like management decided at the time that -- it was not what they wanted - and stopped it.

Until you get to the point of the artificial gravity changing while dragging you along at the end of the Space Trip, the idea probably does not seem feasible, so other methods like Plasma are sought - which may end up being ineffective, and more unfeasible, then not making any money on such a project as to take years to construct a spaceship that is Dragged along by creating an artificial gravity well out in front of it - for it never would be as big as any other gravity-well like a Planet's or Sun's Gravity Well, but may eventually get you Out in Space.

What idea is better than another idea?

There are still others who are not going to be bound by lawyers running the complete system of interaction of any business or copyrights or thoughts of others. It just was a simple request - get some programmers and upgrade the program to the current modern 3D age -- and it is ignored -- but other computer games come out - just not rated as good - for some reason -- because they just are not.

Well, done babbling about whatever this thread is about -- oh, delaying the future - that should not be a future to consider - but must - because really no one wanted it - so why should it happen anyway?

I guess because no one could get to any concensus about anything in this world anyway.

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/strategy/xcomufodefense/index.html

http://www.xcomufo.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=242027870

http://popuw.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1532

http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=6de1e7673f9f1f143b0405de80951135f63a60ab105b4188

http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=6de1e7673f9f1f143b0405de80951135f63a60ab105b4188

http://sourceforge.net/projects/dosbox

http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=6de1e7673f9f1f143b0405de80951135f63a60ab105b4188

DosBox 0.72 works fine for the game and Microsoft and their Config.nt and Autoexec.nt files still do not seem to work included with Windows XP started with Windows 2K, because you really just can not make old ms-dos work correctly for the game, I guess without trying out a lot of tricks -- one is having the old programs with the correct version on the computer in the first place -- so DosBox does work - for the most part for the game because to this day - newer people still want to try out that game.

Well, back to something here - that just be something different - if ever finished - which may take years and be a lot harder than just getting three-windows up on the screen correctly.

Oh, yes, a rectangle could be made also, but then it is not the same thing, just that there are many ways of doing anything in the end.

It was just that gaining financing was a problem because it needs to have a Return for it to be considered and to their reasonable length of time -- or else it has to be done in a garage, similiar to the original way that an Apple Computer was made in the first place back in the late '70's.

And all the Laws about Income Tax and Business then take hold and the rest of it.
 
TimeNot,

And no, you can never get rid of Drag at any rate but if artificial Gravity was in front of you with more mass to pull you to that point, but the point kept moving out in front of you or the spaceship, you would be Dragged along through SpaceTime.
Click to expand...

Sure, that will work. But its not very efficient. Whatever you have that creates a gravitational field has to move from Point A to Point B in order to drag your ship along from Point A to Point B. That will take an energy input to accelerate the gravity source that is equal to or greater than the energy input required to fire up an engine on your ship to get the same acceleration. It's more efficient to cut out the middle man and just install an engine on your ship. Or...

If you're traveling within the solar system, for instance, accelerate your ship with an engine, turn it off and use the sun and other planets as gravitational slingshots to get your acceleration.
 
Perhaps it is then just a silly idea. I was thinking more about knowing what gravity is and what mass is, and somehow like magic it could be used in some way that did not include having a middle-man in the project. Perhaps I was just leaping to some kind of silly conclusion though.
 
To Packerbacker:

Thanks for the post. Please post more of what you have seen in the future.

When I first predicted that the Canadian Loony would be worth more than the US dollar, the debunkers said "You're the Loony, the dollar will always be worth more."

Well, look at the decline of the dollar. My prediction came true this year and the debunkers say "That was obvious!" The same people who made fun of my prediction. When WWIII takes place which was predicted by John Titor, they will no doubt claim that people have been predicting WWIII since the 1950's so Titor didn't predict anything.

http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/10/17/asia/prexy.php
 
When WWIII takes place which was predicted by John Titor, they will no doubt claim that people have been predicting WWIII since the 1950's so Titor didn't predict anything.
Click to expand...

Just add to the end of the sentence...

"new" or "anything that hasn't been predicted before his postings"

and you have a completely correct assessment.
 
No, they probably were thinking that at the end of WWII which was 1945.

But, no one has Adversity Rights in this Nation, so please try and think of something good for once.
I would rather not have to think that since people always seem to be telling some future that they could never prove that it ended up that way because some people were thinking that way. Why is it, that even with other Nations, some people equate more to Dictatorships it seems then any sense of Forboding or Communications and it is taken as Fear Mongering.

I think that some people would be at least seeking a Cave to go see and there are many here in the USA.

Afterall, after such a long, long time only traveling at the rate that the future comes, it has seemed like a very very long time so far for some people.

Perhaps a little thinking on whether that is really a Cosmic Thought that came down from the Cosmos, or it is just some thought that came out of your head. There may be difference that some people should pursue as something different to do.

Gees~!
/ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
And do not forget these games to take back to 2036 or whenever you are.

Ah, the ms-dos versions will be better to run in DosBox 0.72 listed in other post.

Yea! Yippee! I installed the game in DosBox using the "Standard" game version install because for some reason although I have 1gB for ms-dos games, it only shows up as 110mB when working in ms-dos from DosBox. (?)

It actually worked, and one does not have to try and get it installed and started from Microsoft's Command Prompt and those stupid files "config.nt" and "autoexec.nt" files which do not seem to work but give a conflict to running this game.

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/strategy/xcomapocalypse/index.html

XCOM Apocalypse

http://www.the-underdogs.info/game.php?name=X-COM%3A+Apocalypse

http://www.mobygames.com/search/quick?quickSearch=X-COM%3A+Apocalypse

Both versions (ms-dos or Windows) actually the same version. It runs in ms-dos better though, I guess, well, probably.

And of course XCOM:UFO Defense (which if you can and you probably can find the ms-dos version instead of the Windows version and use DosBox0.72 to play the game.)

http://www.the-underdogs.info/game.php?gameid=4966

And do not forget the "Forums" if you do not understand ms-dos or need help to get the games running and playing.

From the Review:

""If you call yourself a gamer but don't own X-COM, your collection has a more glaring gap than Ernest Borgnine's smile.""

You know Ernest Borgnine the actor that played the taxicab driver in the movie "Escape from New York" with the follow up movie (not having Ernest Borgnine in it) "Escape from LA" and now perhaps another sequel should be made like something like "Escape from Planet Earth!".

All this time-travelling stuff needs a few good computer games along also.

It works, and works great in DosBox.
Actually the best game programmed in the series as to physics and all of that.

XCOM: Apocalypse

Now back to actually doing something like XCOM:UFO Defense, ha, ha, in the real world.
Anyway, an asteroid may hit also, so Near Earth Orbit Objects of the ones we know (which do not include the ones we do not know) and having that done is/been starting to ring a bell in some people's head besides the Global Warming and Missle Defense Systems, which right now Russia does not like. Oh, well back to work, and whichever way this world is heading into the future.

Too perhaps many dictatorships sort of in this world, and still China is what they really are - Communists actually and seemingly expansionists.

Find the ms-dos versions of the game (that is out there in cyperspace) and the music if not able to buy the game or just for trying out.
It may be less graphics, but actually no one has programmed such a silly game lately that includes all the elements that XCOM games did. Global Ecnonomies, Deception, and such and in the case of XCOM:Apocalypse stealing weapons from your Allies the Mega Police Force whatever name it really is, and knocking them out in the building with the stun weapon for practice after seeking into the building in the first place.

And leveling the "Cult of Sirius" building on the outside or wrecking it with weapons on the inside.
 
You see in this World, religion comes last. Other subjects like that come last. That humans can chew up and spit out at the end nuclear weapons, but in the process that it was not 'mean' enough and that any human worth their salt does not need to resort to nuclear weapons to end it all, that the fight is better than the ends and the hand-to-hand combat the ultimate means of acheiving satisfaction in this world, like hands-on experience in work, and that sitting around and not acheiving anything except faulty thinking processes is not really what humans are about, spacealiens either. That experience of the hands-on walking together on this Planet is something that has to be done, whether those people over there in foreign lands want to or not. Let's not get carried away with the emotions of it all either though. It is just what it is, not the imaginations of one person over another person. The thrill of victory, the agony of defeat kind of Howard Cosell type of talk even though he now lives in a virtual world as we all pass on, even liberals who think that they command everyone even though they do not, and how they continue to evade their true own emotions and feelings over humans existing in the first place.
 
If you are john titor, if not, I wouldnt care.

For the real John Titor:

I want to tell you something. Thank you very much for bringing up the issue about the IBM 5100 machine. Yes this will change the world, hopefully in a good way.
/ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
Basically the "normals" see time travellers as freaks, so they go to the time travel forums to make fun of the freaks thinking that it is a circus sideshow.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQkYGhmdMig

But when WWIII happens as John Titor predicted it is these "freaks" that will carry forward the flambeau of humananity. Those that laughed will slowly freeze to death in the coming nuclear winter.
 
Back
Top