RainmanTime
Super Moderator
Re: Titor\'s Collapse Still Nowhere In Sight
I willfully admit to my excessive use of sarcasm, and SOMETIME high-handedness. That's part of me. It comes from YEARS of dealing with people in my business who appear to have most of the same characteristics as you: Like to think big (nothing wrong with that), think they have answers to big problems (nothing wrong with that), but then claim their ideas will work and can be done without doing the difficult work that involves factual science, math, and engineering (LOTS wrong with that). There are people in high positions over me that never got a degree in a science or engineering discipline. And they just love to "pronounce what will be" and send me off with tasks to analyze their ideas and "show me how it will work and be accomplished." Yet, when I come back with hard (objective) facts, figures, and equations that show where the problems occur that will NOT make it happen, they get upset at me...much like you when you say:
So...I am willing to admit my sarcasm and sometime snootiness. Are you willing to admit that, unless you can do the detailed math/engineering, that your ideas could quite possibly be flawed?
1) Do you know how much power (Watts) is generated when a single windmill is turning in a 4 mph wind? This is a KEY metric that will help you figure out if your idea is SCALEABLE (and scaleability of ANY solution is a big deal...companies spend millions on trying to solve this problem.)
2) Do you have figures for how much energy (KW-h) is required by an "average" household in a single day, or a single month? This will help you compare "power available" vs. "power required", which is a standard engineering analysis for any project that needs power.
3) Assuming for the time being you can show viability for powering a home with the above. Now, do you know how to estimate how much energy is required to power even a small car for a distance of, say, 30 miles (perhaps a round-trip to work)? If so, then you must now add this energy requirement to the figure you have for an average home for each electric car in your household.
4) Do you understand why windmills shutting themselves off at 25 mph is not really an ideal condition, given how power goes with force*velocity? (And speaking aerodynamically, this boils down to velocity^3)
5) Did you see/understand the analysis I ran for power available from a hurricane back when MEM was hunkering down and waiting for Rita? Here is this analysis (with objective numbers):
So let me do an analysis of your windmill spinning in a 4 mph wind. You did not tell me the radius of the blades, but let me assume they are about 9.8 feet in radius (3 meters). We will also assume you are at sea level, which specifies the air density. Are you aware that the IDEAL amount of power that could possibly be extracted by this type of windmill under these conditions is:
101 Watts (Enough to power a single, bright lightbulb)
And that is ideal... when you start to factor in losses, the total power you can reasonably extract is obviously lower.
The above is objective science. Science which all learned people in engineering would agree with and know is true. If you can get beyond your hate for me, and start digging into the details that I am pointing you towards, you will see and understand that solutions are not as easy as you seem to think. But as long as you think you are right, you have the "simple" solutions to all the world's problems, and you refuse to see that the emporer is naked, you will learn nothing and you will become an even worse manifestation of the things you hate about me than you could ever imagine.
RMT
And so applying this to your own criticisms of me, what does that say about yourself? Perhaps we are more alike than you might care to admit?
I willfully admit to my excessive use of sarcasm, and SOMETIME high-handedness. That's part of me. It comes from YEARS of dealing with people in my business who appear to have most of the same characteristics as you: Like to think big (nothing wrong with that), think they have answers to big problems (nothing wrong with that), but then claim their ideas will work and can be done without doing the difficult work that involves factual science, math, and engineering (LOTS wrong with that). There are people in high positions over me that never got a degree in a science or engineering discipline. And they just love to "pronounce what will be" and send me off with tasks to analyze their ideas and "show me how it will work and be accomplished." Yet, when I come back with hard (objective) facts, figures, and equations that show where the problems occur that will NOT make it happen, they get upset at me...much like you when you say:
I have been imploring you (yes, sarcastically at times) to look deeply into the objective facts surrounding any one of your ideas. Yet all you can do is get upset at my call to reality. You're not mad with me, you are mad that the universe and physics "conspire" against your grand ideas. Going from thought to practice is hard work. You seem to wish to stop at the "thought" portion and do some handwaving to claim that going to practice is "utterly simple". It's not. And THAT is why I pick apart pseudo-science. And each time I point these out to you, they fall on deaf ears. You are so convinced that you are "right" that you don't want to be bothered by objective facts and the detailed analysis that must be done to verify if your ideas can be pulled off. I know it is a bitter pill to swallow, but this is where you are at.
So...I am willing to admit my sarcasm and sometime snootiness. Are you willing to admit that, unless you can do the detailed math/engineering, that your ideas could quite possibly be flawed?
You see that? Right there, that is hand-waving and, in a manner of speaking, condescending. Because YOU SAY nothing really matters, that should be good enough for anyone? This is the classic cop-out to the "big thinkers" who don't think it is necessary for THEM to have to figure out the details. You honestly would be a powerful force in science IF you stopped copping-out like this, and got some real science, math, and engineering education that would allow you to solve the detailed analysis problems. In essence, this is where YOU are the one who thinks he is better than others, in that you don't think you need to know or figure out the details. You think all you need to spew is claptrap like the above, and all will be well. Rude awakening: That is not how the world works, especially the world of science.
When the wind is blowing hard enough to overcome the generator losses and inefficiences, I would agree with you. But this is where analysis and equations come in. If you've read all my posts, then you know I have a 3.3KW solar system on my roof in SoCal. And you would also know that I not only don't pay a dime to SoCal Edison for power, but I also generate MORE power than I consume and thus give back to the grid. (I've got objective facts and charts to prove it). So.... given this, what have you PERSONALLY done to help make a dent in our energy problems? Have you put your $ where you mouth is and built a windmill for your own personal power generation?
OK, all sarcasm, pot-shots, or personal bashing aside. I'd really like to try and teach you something, but you must be willing to learn. What you have here is good, but it is not enough to be convincing. Here are some things that can go a long way to helping you make a more convincing story:
1) Do you know how much power (Watts) is generated when a single windmill is turning in a 4 mph wind? This is a KEY metric that will help you figure out if your idea is SCALEABLE (and scaleability of ANY solution is a big deal...companies spend millions on trying to solve this problem.)
2) Do you have figures for how much energy (KW-h) is required by an "average" household in a single day, or a single month? This will help you compare "power available" vs. "power required", which is a standard engineering analysis for any project that needs power.
3) Assuming for the time being you can show viability for powering a home with the above. Now, do you know how to estimate how much energy is required to power even a small car for a distance of, say, 30 miles (perhaps a round-trip to work)? If so, then you must now add this energy requirement to the figure you have for an average home for each electric car in your household.
4) Do you understand why windmills shutting themselves off at 25 mph is not really an ideal condition, given how power goes with force*velocity? (And speaking aerodynamically, this boils down to velocity^3)
5) Did you see/understand the analysis I ran for power available from a hurricane back when MEM was hunkering down and waiting for Rita? Here is this analysis (with objective numbers):
And BTW, you need to understand that these are "ideal" numbers. I have not yet accounted for frictional and conversion losses in the generators.
So let me do an analysis of your windmill spinning in a 4 mph wind. You did not tell me the radius of the blades, but let me assume they are about 9.8 feet in radius (3 meters). We will also assume you are at sea level, which specifies the air density. Are you aware that the IDEAL amount of power that could possibly be extracted by this type of windmill under these conditions is:
101 Watts (Enough to power a single, bright lightbulb)
And that is ideal... when you start to factor in losses, the total power you can reasonably extract is obviously lower.
Are you aware that as bearings wear out, they produce greater and greater amounts of friction? If you think it will happily produce energy without ANY maintenance or upkeep for 50 years, you are not being realistic and you are ignoring the details.
The above is objective science. Science which all learned people in engineering would agree with and know is true. If you can get beyond your hate for me, and start digging into the details that I am pointing you towards, you will see and understand that solutions are not as easy as you seem to think. But as long as you think you are right, you have the "simple" solutions to all the world's problems, and you refuse to see that the emporer is naked, you will learn nothing and you will become an even worse manifestation of the things you hate about me than you could ever imagine.
RMT
