You just PROVED my point. If someone disagrees with you, they are labeled irrational. You wanted proof, there ya go.Sorry if I've disturbed your thread. This is how the Titor discussion always ends up, the rational having to justify their disbelief, to the irrational disciples of The Titor.
Besides, she started it. :sneaky:
Wanting to believe is, sadly, the core of the problem. Just like 98% of all arguments online, Titor builds on "truthiness", as Stephen Colbert so nicely put it, the idea that something is true because it feels true, or feels good to believe. There is no hard, factual proof for or against Titor, and there likely never will be. But if any of his predictions or other information is to be taken as proof, he flopped, hard. If it's all just to be seen as a rant, and none of it is predictive (for example, if his actions completely changed everything and the info on his TT machine were just for kicks and giggles), then proof never even enters the conversation. Either he was/is a fraud, or his actions were largely meaningless to the debate on time travel, because none of what he said can be used for anything.
You should look around, this is practically 50% of the topics on these forums! The current result seems to be that there is no definite answer to it, because anything and everything can be countered,and those counterings can then be countercountered by the selfproclaimed traveller. In my personal opinion, everybody is jumping the gun on the topic. We know too little about the concept, even the *theoretical* concepts, of time travel to ask any meaningful questions. In fact, I think it would take a time traveller to teach us enough about the deeper concepts of time travel to allow us to even start on making a test. Not to mention a test that would actually mean anything. i mean, what if you proved someone was a time traveller, someone right there in the chair next to you? What then? What would absolute, undeniable proof even mean??
Paula, John was clearly a hoax. If he wasn't, then we would have lived through false flag attacks by our own government resulting in missing skyscrapers in NYC, false flag murder of bystanders at public marathon events, illegal search and seizure, warrantless arrest, illegal incarciration, murder by police, general injustice, fascism, and economic failure. Perhaps even wars and rumors of war. Clearly a JADEed Homeland Eradication of Local Militants hoax...
I think he was indeed a hoax, but I do tend to think he was a guy in the know about some things, possibly a government worker of some kind. His 'prophecies' could have been him trying to word information he was privy to in such a way that it hints to events that might come, but not necessarily predict them with any accuracy. The clues, mostly.
You know, I'm an atheist. Being part of such group and also very interested in the human need for religions, have made me realise a few things. First, people will believe in the most random myths. For the most random reasons as well. Second, there's nothing wrong with that. The importance of a belief can only be measured by that person, so no matter what you say, you will not change someone else's belief by talking/writing to them.
That is actually the best fracking name I have ever recognized. Damn Decent of you my fine Sir/Madame.
Wanting to believe is a problem if someone speaks with this in arguments!! Its not bad for the person Itself. Just for his imaginations. I mean I'm still a logical person...
The only weapon that someone who time traveled to the past have to convince the ppl, is words. But in science words are not proof. Words are just theories.Tho, as @Henry Stone said in time travel to the past real proof probably cannot exist. If for the time travel in future, you don't have to prove anything. I mean it's the future. They already know it before you.
I think one of the least represented means of trying to prove time travel would be involved in archeology or history. In twenty years time, there's no telling what people will dig up that completely changes the entire field. If such a ground shaking discovery was tied to a single object, than going into the past (where the object will still be in its position) and informing people where to find it should suffice as advanced knowledge of some kind. Like somebody pops up tomorrow in front of the White House, tells people where to find an Egyptian hovercraft, and then waits as they dig it up. I exaggerate, of course, but that's the premise I most dwell on when I think of proof. Using the past to prove time travel.
Lets say that you where a time traveler and knew where an ancient hovercraft was buried. You would arrive in this time with nothing, so you would have to somehow raise funding to go did up this hovercraft. If you tell people who are going finance you that you know where it is because you are a time travel, they will think you are nuts. So you would have to invent somesort of plausable theory.
Oops, I should have stated that this is in no way meant as an insult or criticism against you. My bad, sorry. The problem is that a lot of people, on a lot of topics, want to believe things so badly that anyone looking at them with skepticism becomes "the enemy". That is a problem, because unless we try to rip our own ideas apart to the point of obsession before we stand firm on them, we open ourselves up to ridicule and drag everything else down with us. I, for example, honestly work on time travel (the study of the concept, not actual time travel itself!), but I would never say that to anyone other than A ) people here, or B ) someone I really really trust, because time travel is seen as akin to Bigfoot and ESP, i.e. it is laughed at. And that is because people want so badly to believe in something like Titor that they kill all criticism of the concept and make it look utterly stupid to anyone else. It's like your party being ruined because one person pees on the carpet. It only takes one to ruin it for everyone else.
Well, we do need thick skin, too. Like, kevlar armor thick. So getting bashed in a thread or having it derail comes with the territory, I guess. Buck up, we'll get this sucker rolling! And if not, I run a hugs-by-mail-order business on the side, and we just got a shipment of hugs back from the factory ?
Nicolas;
Well, that whole premise is a bit flawed and complicated, so I have a simpler one. Imagine a super volcano erupts in 2020, and kills 10,000 people. You want to prevent this from happening. In the future, this is well documented fact, easily found online (or whatever the internet is at that point.) You go back in time to a point where you have adequate time to prevent the deaths, say six months in advance of the eruption.
Yes, you're right. It's just that I'm very sensitive. I've actually noticed I've been more in touch with my sensitive side after we found out my wife is pregnant. It's been 6,5 months already! My hormones are acting crazy. So, nothing personal. :LOL:
This is one of the reasons that explains, to me, why this story is still around after over a decade. ? Whoever he is, he vanished.