Present time-travellers - a thread for you!

Hmm. I just don't think I have ever found engaging with a con artist 'fun'. Much more fun to expose them for what they are.
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These time travelers aren't "con artists". Do any of then come by and post
"World War Three is a week from now, Gimmie $4,000 dollars and I'll take you to the future"
If all you do is jump up and down in a temper tantrum yelling "PROOF PROOF PROOF" I wouldn't be surprised if a Time Traveler gets up and leaves angrily thinking that he came here to talk to us not get attacked by us.

From what I've seen anything that could count as proof is imdetiatly dismissed. How would you like if Everytime you gave a history report, all you're peers would just say "Where's the proof George Washington crossed the Delaware?" then you answer and they say "Well where did the World Book Encyclopedia get its proof?" and so on and so forth until your're screaming "CUASE GEORGE WASHINGTON WROTE IT IN HIS JOURNAL GOD DAMN IT" and then all you're peers say, Well, he could have just made it up.
 
I wouldn't be surprised if a Time Traveler gets up and leaves angrily thinking that he came here to talk to us not get attacked by us
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Nonsense ! Any GENUINE time traveller would not bother coming here in the first place unless he was prepared to provide some evidence that he was genuine. He would know full well that there would be rational minded people expecting firm evidence.

Only a FAKE runs away.
 
Nonsense ! Any GENUINE time traveller would not bother coming here in the first place unless he was prepared to provide some evidence that he was genuine. He would know full well that there would be rational minded people expecting firm evidence.

Only a FAKE runs away.
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You've never stopped talking to someone when they call you a lair when you're telling the truth? What alot of "proof-seeking" people are asking for isn't proof, they're asking for proof for the proof's proof And eventually they get fed up with it.
 
These time travelers aren't "con artists". Do any of then come by and post
"World War Three is a week from now, Gimmie $4,000 dollars and I'll take you to the future"
If all you do is jump up and down in a temper tantrum yelling "PROOF PROOF PROOF" I wouldn't be surprised if a Time Traveler gets up and leaves angrily thinking that he came here to talk to us not get attacked by us.
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You seem to enjoy making up excuses for people who like to lie. Is it, perhaps, because you enjoy telling fibs on internet forums too? Some of us believe that fiction should be so noted, especially when it comes to wild claims. You don't seem to think it is important to hold liars accountable. Others of us do.

From what I've seen anything that could count as proof is imdetiatly dismissed.
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Nonsense. The problem is, your view seems to be that too much nonsense "could count as proof." I will not dismiss some evidence if I believe it scientifically could be shown to be relevant. But most of the crap that TT liars offer up as evidence does not pass the scientific smell test to be considered as possibly counting as proof.

A possible form of evidence must earn's its way into consideration. It doesn't simply show-up on the list of possible by virtue of someone claiming it is valid as evidence. You seem to take the belief that anything someone claims to be evidence should be considered. If you think this, you must show, scientifically, why it should be considered. You have to argue why it is relevant evidence.

But will you do that? Or simply encourage TT liars by asking them questions that allow them to continue the lies?

Briefly, why don't you just tell us what your views are on lying, in general, Khronos. Do you think it is a good thing to encourage and/or tolerate?
RMT
 
You've never stopped talking to someone when they call you a lair when you're telling the truth? What alot of "proof-seeking" people are asking for isn't proof, they're asking for proof for the proof's proof And eventually they get fed up with it.
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Sorry but again that is nonsense. Is some research team REALLY going to spend billions on a time machine...only to have their illustrious time traveller come running home sobbing after 5 minutes and report " boo hooo.....someone asked me to prove I was genuine...sob...sob "

Come off it !
 
You've never stopped talking to someone when they call you a lair when you're telling the truth?
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I believe there is a difference between saying you caught the biggest trout of the season on the lake (and it just happened to get away...really... it was "THIS BIG!") and having your friends call you a liar, and being an anonymous prankster trolling the internet and trying to convince people you are a time traveler.

I will humor my friend and his faux-fish stories... because he is my friend. I will not humor an internet troll, who I really don't know much if anything about, precisely BECAUSE I know they are lying to me.

I'm not sure why you think this is a "bad attitude" to have for internet liars...personally I think it is rational & appropriate.

RMT
 
I believe there is a difference between saying you caught the biggest trout of the season on the lake (and it just happened to get away...really... it was "THIS BIG!") and having your friends call you a liar
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A good analogy...I used to love fishing for pike. It's not caught till it is in the boat, and a suitable pic of arms outstreched and pike head at one end and tail at the other. " It was THIS big !".....with empty arms outstretched.....just doesn't do it. When I was pike fishing in Ireland, we'd all heard the stories of the 'monster' pike that somehow ALWAYS managed to get away...and how it would then drag some hapless dog or sheep into the water. Great yarns to have a pint of Guinness over...but nobody seriously believed them.

All the sceptics here are asking for is the time travel equivalent of 'in the boat'. Otherwise these stories are just another yarn.......and frankly the monster pike is more interesting, and probably has more chance of being real.
 
You seem to enjoy making up excuses for people who like to lie. Is it, perhaps, because you enjoy telling fibs on internet forums too? Some of us believe that fiction should be so noted, especially when it comes to wild claims. You don't seem to think it is important to hold liars accountable. Others of us do.
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I suppose I do enjoy making excuses, but just becuase its an excuse doesn't mean its a lie. It humors me how you say "hold liars accountable." What does it really matter. So lets say a "time traveler" is found out, its proven he a hoax and no one believes him anymore. Now what? Do we go egg his house, steal is lunch money? No, we feel either stupid for believing him or proud we found him out, and then we move on.

Nonsense. The problem is, your view seems to be that too much nonsense "could count as proof." I will not dismiss some evidence if I believe it scientifically could be shown to be relevant. But most of the crap that TT liars offer up as evidence does not pass the scientific smell test to be considered as possibly counting as proof.
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I admit that there hasn't ever been 100% undeniable proof of any time traveler that has posted in this forum. But technically there isn't 100% undeniable proof that even you exist RMT and neither is there 100% proof that I exsist to you. But you assume that I do and I assume that you do.

A possible form of evidence must earn's its way into consideration. It doesn't simply show-up on the list of possible by virtue of someone claiming it is valid as evidence. You seem to take the belief that anything someone claims to be evidence should be considered. If you think this, you must show, scientifically, why it should be considered. You have to argue why it is relevant evidence.
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If someone says that tommorow at 7 a UFO will crash in California, I wouldn't waste my time on proving that aliens won't land, I would ask this person about the aliens, Then wait until 7 the next day, and if nothing happens then I would just deal with it, and if in fact A UFO did crash land in California then I would also deal with it, except now I would know that the aliens will only kill people in red shirts instead of feeling bad for doubting the person while I get zapped to death.

Briefly, why don't you just tell us what your views are on lying, in general, Khronos. Do you think it is a good thing to encourage and/or tolerate?
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Do I encourage lying, no. If people lie, and it doesn't make a difference to me will I tolerate it, yes. When people lie and I wind up without a car and $700 will I tolerate it, no.

I believe there is a difference between saying you caught the biggest trout of the season on the lake (and it just happened to get away...really... it was "THIS BIG!") and having your friends call you a liar, and being an anonymous prankster trolling the internet and trying to convince people you are a time traveler.
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But, When your Trout research team spends $12,000 and really does catch one that is "THIS BIG" and it really does get away and all your reaserch is devoured by it. Now you go try to tell the Fish and Game people that trout can get twice as big as previously thought, and they don't believe you know matter what you say, does that change the fact that that trout can get "THIS BIG"
 
The funny thing about all this is that people want to be in control. By giving into demands for proof, a time traveler puts the skeptic in control. I understand why people don't want to be bothered with lies, but it's worse than that. Because if you give in to one demand from another, then soon the demands pour in like a torrent. At some point, the time traveler must say no more. Because people who are constantly asking questions about it aren't just doing it for their curiousity. They want to take the technology as their own and be in control. But a better way to do that is to discover time travel oneself, not beg the details from an accomplished time traveler (unless it really is beyond the scientific and technical ability of the present era and skeptic, in which case the skeptic has no business handling the technology). I wouldn't tell you how my machine works, unless you already have a really good start and are looking for improvements. That way I know you deserve a chance to have the technology in the first place. /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
But, When your Trout research team spends $12,000 and really does catch one that is "THIS BIG" and it really does get away and all your reaserch is devoured by it. Now you go try to tell the Fish and Game people that trout can get twice as big as previously thought, and they don't believe you know matter what you say, does that change the fact that that trout can get "THIS BIG"
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I think you totally misinterpret the position of the sceptics. We are not simply looking for 'irrefutable' evidence.....most of the time we are simply looking for ANY evidence at all ! Something.....anything..that will cause one to raise an eyebrow and prick up one's ears.

But we simply are not getting it. We are not getting even the most BASIC information or details that would cause a rational mind to think 'hmm...maybe this is worth further investigation'.


The purpose of providing tests is not simply as a 'debunker'....but because such tests DO provide the most basic entry level at which what is simply a yarn by some anonymous person on the net could be considered worth a closer look. RMT, myself, and others, have all provided tests that are purposely simple. We are not asking anyone to jump through hoops......the tests are all simple and effectively say ' Fine..if you're a time traveller then THIS ought to be a piece of cake'.

Far from a genuine time traveller being 'put off'....he would be well aware of the large number of hoaxes here, and would WANT to differentiate himself from that crowd. It is the hoaxers who are put off, and rightly so, because they know they cannot pass even the simplest of tests. A genuine time traveller would know that....and he would know that although passing any such test would not 'prove' his credentials, it would certainly gain the attention of the sceptics.

Now that does not mean that all the sceptics would suddenly be shouting " Hey...we got a real one here !". But it DOES mean that the sceptics would be doing something other than just yawn.
 
The purpose of providing tests is not simply as a 'debunker'....but because such tests DO provide the most basic entry level at which what is simply a yarn by some anonymous person on the net could be considered worth a closer look. RMT, myself, and others, have all provided tests that are purposely simple. We are not asking anyone to jump through hoops......the tests are all simple and effectively say ' Fine..if you're a time traveller then THIS ought to be a piece of cake'.

Far from a genuine time traveller being 'put off'....he would be well aware of the large number of hoaxes here, and would WANT to differentiate himself from that crowd. It is the hoaxers who are put off, and rightly so, because they know they cannot pass even the simplest of tests. A genuine time traveller would know that....and he would know that although passing any such test would not 'prove' his credentials, it would certainly gain the attention of the sceptics.

Now that does not mean that all the sceptics would suddenly be shouting " Hey...we got a real one here !". But it DOES mean that the sceptics would be doing something other than just yawn.
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Uh-huh.

(Sound of chewing with mouth wide open).

What he said.


RMT
 
So let me see here. You want a time traveler to present proof and yet you already stated that they can not do so. Then you said well, they should atleast attempt to do it so YOU could give them more serious thought. come on! A time traveler CANNOT present proof on the internet. Attempting to do so then is also futile. News flash: You are not the only one on this forum. And it seems to me since you are not willing to participate in a conversation unless a professing time traveler presents proof or attempts to present proof then basically you are only here as a troll to distrupt everyone elses conversation and to try to get the professing time traveler to leave. If they CANNOT present proof. The best they can do is have a conversation with you. You are one person among many on this web site. Some people here want to have a conversation with others here.

<font color="red"> You are not going to get your proof on the internet...what part of that do you not understand?[/COLOR]

To tell you the honest truth I do not even know why I even post to you. I can only imagine how another time traveler would feel. If I was a time traveler I would just ignore you and talk to everyone else. /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif I wouldn't feel any obligation to prove anything to you at all. I mean..
who are you in the vastness of the multiverses?? or even the vastness of the internet?? /ttiforum/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Guess you will just be yawning through the whole thing...that is if anyone posts anymore here at all. :eek: Hmm talk about yawning, YAAAAAWWWN. I am tired....goodnight. ZZZZZZZZZZZ




____________________________

Some get it..others clueless.
 
So let me see here. You want a time traveler to present proof and yet you already stated that they can not do so. Then you said well, they should atleast attempt to do it so YOU could give them more serious thought. come on! A time traveler CANNOT present proof on the internet. Attempting to do so then is also futile. News flash: You are not the only one on this forum. And it seems to me since you are not willing to participate in a conversation unless a professing time traveler presents proof or attempts to present proof then basically you are only here as a troll to distrupt everyone elses conversation and to try to get the professing time traveler to leave. If they CANNOT present proof. The best they can do is have a conversation with you. You are one person among many on this web site. Some people here want to have a conversation with others here.

You are not going to get your proof on the internet...what part of that do you not understand?

To tell you the honest truth I do not even know why I even post to you. I can only imagine how another time traveler would feel. If I was a time traveler I would just ignore you and talk to everyone else. I wouldn't feel any obligation to prove anything to you at all. I mean..
who are you in the vastness of the multiverses?? or even the vastness of the internet??

Guess you will just be yawning through the whole thing...that is if anyone posts anymore here at all. Hmm talk about yawning, YAAAAAWWWN. I am tired....goodnight. ZZZZZZZZZZZ




____________________________

Some get it..others clueless.
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Uh-huh.

(Sound of chewing with mouth wide open).

What she said.
 
@Pamela:
Twighlight just explained the difference between SOME evidence and 100% proof.
Then he went on and said the TT claimant just would have to give SOME evidence to at least be considered to be more than a hoaxer.
He didn't say (as you immediately did after him): Proof or no proof.
It might be true you can't get Proof (100% certainty) via the internet.
But you can get some evidence (less than, but near 100% certainty to raise interest) which at least differentiates you from fake claimants, because THEY can't even take the simplest of tests.
Real claimants can, though.
 
You are not going to get your proof on the internet...what part of that do you not understand?
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Bull. What part of that do you not understand?

Several VERY simple tests for any REAL time traveler have been laid out. NONE have been satisfied. You don't like that we wish to engage from a scientific standpoint. That's fine, you are perfectly OK to go on about your merry way playing "warm and cozy" with alleged time travelers. We are also perfectly OK to approach it from a more scientific standpoint.

In fact, you should WANT us to run off the hoaxers... because those who can withstand a scientific inquiry &amp; still hang around should give you more of that "creativity" that you are looking for. But I think you well understand, Pamela, that the world is not one giant estrogen-enhanced love fest.

RMT
 
News flash: You are not the only one on this forum.
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Lol, that's a bit rich coming from someone who almost single handedly enabled the entire Titor hoax to survive for so long.


Some people here want to have a conversation with others here.
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Yes, it's quite apparent to me that there are those who simply want to 'chat'. Never mind if it is inane gibberish with someone on an overdose of magic mushroom.


I can only imagine how another time traveler would feel.
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Oh God.....here we go again.....touchy feely stuff in place of good honest SCIENCE.


Your shrill responses are just so typical of 'believers'. Hell....someone DARED ask a time traveller for proof ! It's just not on.


And it seems to me since you are not willing to participate in a conversation unless a professing time traveler presents proof or attempts to present proof then basically you are only here as a troll to distrupt everyone elses conversation and to try to get the professing time traveler to leave.
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Ah....what a load of rubbish. Asking a time traveller to provide evidence that he is a time traveller is 'trolling' ?? Rational thinking is clearly not your strong point.
 
We have a place in England called Hyde Park Corner. By tradition, it is popularly a place where anyone can get up on a soap box and spout what they like. They can claim they are 'King Of Mars' if they like...or tell us all not to be driving at 3.15pm on Friday as the Rapture is about to occur. Now and then you get a few sensible ones.....but the point being, its a place where people can get up and rant what they like. They can even claim to be time travellers.

It's a fundamental part of a free society, and I would not stop it for one moment.

BUT...and this is a BIG but.....there may be a right to free speech but there is NO 'right to be taken seriously'.

The very act of getting up on that soap box forecloses any right you have to avoid being called a loony or worse. If you don't want to be called a liar, lunatic, idiot, or whatever the crowd may have to say.....THEN DON'T GET ON THE BOX ! Simple...duh !

But if you DO get on that box....and pronounce yourself 'King Of Mars', then you fully expose yourself to people in the crowd shouting 'prove it !'. YOU are the one making the claim. Don't go blaming rational people in the crowd or calling them trolls. If YOU say you are 'King of Mars'....YOU provide some evidence of it ! If a bunch of rational minded people in the crowd start rolling around on the ground and saying " That's the best one I've heard in years"......then you have nobody but yourself to blame if you've not provided even the slightest evidence that a Martian royalty even exists....let alone that you are King !
 
@Pamela:
Twighlight just explained the difference between SOME evidence and 100% proof.
Then he went on and said the TT claimant just would have to give SOME evidence to at least be considered to be more than a hoaxer.
He didn't say (as you immediately did after him): Proof or no proof.
It might be true you can't get Proof (100% certainty) via the internet.
But you can get some evidence (less than, but near 100% certainty to raise interest) which at least differentiates you from fake claimants, because THEY can't even take the simplest of tests.
Real claimants can, though.
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Actually..all I'm doing is applying the same scientific method to time travellers that has long since been applied for those claiming to be psychic.

1) You devise a minimum 'entry level'. Some criteria that seperates those you will test, from those not worth consideration. This rules out maybe 90% of claimants. Need not be a test ( though with time travellers I'd say it should be ).

2) You devise a basic test that has a pass mark with 'significant' odds against chance. Zenner cards were a favourite with psychics..with easily calculable odds ( though the size of the sample matters too). Test the claimant several times....to rule out any claim that they were 'just having a bad day'. This will eliminate a further 90% or so of those remaining. This is also the level at which serious testing of time travellers would start.

3) Only now, is your remaining sample of people ready for the full scientific testing. Everything so far has just been a process of narrowing down to a small sample of people who can at least demonstrate significant odds..and repeatability. You now run a quite specific ( statistically isolated ) test with a clear beginning and pre-defined end. And you publish the results, whether good or bad.


It's worth pointing out that a significant number of psychics WANT to be tested. All this business about people being 'put off' by serious testing is NONSENSE. A number of universities have run serious psychic tests on the net....and got some quite significant results.

Indeed, the science of testing psychic claimants is pretty well advanced. The main area of contention is not the testing..where almost everyone agrees that individual statistically significant results have been obtained....but the claim by some that you cannot 'isolate' a set of test results from the sum total of all tests ever taken. Personally I think the statistical evidence is...hmm....'compelling' is the word ( no...not 'proof').

The situation with time travellers is akin to that of psychics prior to the 50s...before any of the tests were devised. And going even further back....the psychics and spiritualists of the early 1900s ( many of whom were self evident fakes ) were aghast at the notion of being 'tested'....mainly because there was so much quackery at the time. But it is amazing how, once the tests were established, the fakes tended to die out...and just ordinary people, housewives, car mechanics, etc....who felt they had psychic abilities....came forward and WANTED to be tested.

I have no doubt we will see the same with time travel. Perhaps we are seeing it now. The end of the quackery era...and time for any real time travellers to stand up and be counted.
 
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