Theory Possibility of Multiple Time Travelers

[Jay Walker]

Jay, outstanding! You're catching on to what the Titor Saga actually is.

As I've said before, if this was real, if Momma Kay Titor was a real person and was actually afraid that the Alphabet Soup federal law enforcement and intelligence community was after her and any secrets she held about her son John Titor...would she hire a Hollywood entertainment industry lawyer who specializes in intellectual property rights and movie deals to protect her from the "infernal revenuers"? Of course not.

Would the actual holder of the intellectual property surrounding the character John Titor engage the services of such a person to form a corporation, The John Titor Foundation, to manage the entertainment and intellectual properties of the corporation? Yes.

The Titor Saga is about The Book, The Syndicated Radio Show, The Play, The Movie, The Coffee Mugs, The Graphical Novel, The T-shirts, etc. It always has been. The problem for the JTF was how do they, in 2001, start a sci-fi meme on the emergent internet BBS system by telling a time travel adventure/nuclear war story and then turn that into a viable chain of commercial products and programs? So far the answer has been, they don't.

The Book was distributed to several people like myself for free. Thereafter it became the equivelent of a coffee table book; no one was interested in paying for a book that rehashed our posts that can be found here for free both then and now. The Play, The Radio Show, The Graphical Novel and The Movie never got off the ground. No one bought the t-shirts of coffee mugs principally because in relative terms no one has heard of John Titor. At least not enough people to make a commercial market. In the end it was a well intended experiment in communication and entertainment that simply failed to catch on sufficient to make it financially feasible to invest in.

Thank you Darby, as always you are the epitome of a gentlemen and a scholar. You make an excellent point about this story not having the legs to really cash in. I don't know if you familiar with Howard Stern. I listened religiously for years, not really for antics but for these little industry gems that he would talk about. Much like Micheal Jackson was a student of music, Howard since he was young became a student of radio and broadcasting. He has been on the air for almost half a century, believe or not. From his college years at BU, to Sirius satellite still going. Why is this important?
One of the tropes Howard would repeat is the way broadcasters, give away crap, like the first caller gets a box of tissues for guessing which school would have a snow day that morning. Or Rush Limbaugh would sell branded tissue boxes with Rush's fat face on it.
Howard prided himself for never selling anyone anything that he thought wasn't up to his standards of the best it could be.

Not all Stories were born equal. The John Titor story is much more facinating than anyone has ever given credit. The way I know why, is when you look at the numbers:

JOHN TITOR: Time traveler, soldier, savior | Can he save us from destruction? 3.8M views 2 years ago

The Time Traveler John Titor: Hoax or Harbinger from the Future? #shorts 1.1M views 1 year ago​

JOHN TITOR: Time Travel, Parallel Universes, Deja Vu and Mandela Effects Explained?! 1.4M views 7 years ago​

Did This Man Really Time Travel From 2036? • Mystery Files 891K views 4 months ago

so on and so on.

The interest is there. But all of these videos have missed the point all together. The biggest mistake they all make, is they use his "predictions" as a way discrediting him. Why? The way he explains it, they aren't predictions. Predictions imply a paradox. In MWI, those paradoxes go away.

Don't you see, it is the first popular time travel story that defeats all the Hollywood tropes that make no sense. Marty Mcfly begins disappearing along with his whole family? Why? Marty doesn't even belong in that future he returns to in 1985. He went missing the night Doc was shot. What if Marty was on a forum trying to predict the future that he changed? Would he had known that his parents would have been madly in love with each other, or that his brother and sister weren't lazy bums in the future he created? No. But people criticize John for not knowing what he did for us when he changed Y2K. How would he know that no civil war at all would occur? Or that nuclear bombs wouldn't be used in 2015.

All of this stuff people poop on John about can be accounted for.

Look, in my humble opinion, I think you guys are sitting on the greatest time-traveling story no one could figure out how tell.

The numbers guy. They are good numbers even when you're telling the story wrong.

Farewell

- John

tell me you don't get choked up when you read that?

 

[Jay Walker]

I Yield my time. Ty.

 

[JudasTitor]

Jay, outstanding! You're catching on to what the Titor Saga actually is.

As I've said before, if this was real, if Momma Kay Titor was a real person and was actually afraid that the Alphabet Soup federal law enforcement and intelligence community was after her and any secrets she held about her son John Titor...would she hire a Hollywood entertainment industry lawyer who specializes in intellectual property rights and movie deals to protect her from the "infernal revenuers"? Of course not.

Would the actual holder of the intellectual property surrounding the character John Titor engage the services of such a person to form a corporation, The John Titor Foundation, to manage the entertainment and intellectual properties of the corporation? Yes.

The Titor Saga is about The Book, The Syndicated Radio Show, The Play, The Movie, The Coffee Mugs, The Graphical Novel, The T-shirts, etc. It always has been. The problem for the JTF was how do they, in 2001, start a sci-fi meme on the emergent internet BBS system by telling a time travel adventure/nuclear war story and then turn that into a viable chain of commercial products and programs? So far the answer has been, they don't.

The Book was distributed to several people like myself for free. Thereafter it became the equivelent of a coffee table book; no one was interested in paying for a book that rehashed our posts that can be found here for free both then and now. The Play, The Radio Show, The Graphical Novel and The Movie never got off the ground. No one bought the t-shirts of coffee mugs principally because in relative terms no one has heard of John Titor. At least not enough people to make a commercial market. In the end it was a well intended experiment in communication and entertainment that simply failed to catch on sufficient to make it financially feasible to invest in.

Darby,

If Momma Kay Titor was real, wouldn't she have been born wealthy after John's escapades in the past with his grandfather? Personally, I would be a bit more focused on personal security and remaining anonymous for fear of military reprisal from a future foreign adversary. Money is the thing that will make a man act funny; and stupid. Men & women will do things for money that they would never consider without money. Do you know what I am saying?

 

[Jay Walker]

As I've said before, if this was real, if Momma Kay Titor was a real person and was actually afraid that the Alphabet Soup federal law enforcement and intelligence community was after her and any secrets she held about her son John Titor...would she hire a Hollywood entertainment industry lawyer who specializes in intellectual property rights and movie deals to protect her from the "infernal revenuers"? Of course not.

If this wasn't real, then why would she need security from government agencies? Instead, she would be better off with an entertainment lawyer to keep tabs on the misuse and abuse of her son's right of publicity. But not even the people that have been closest to this case believe the story. Anyone who does is dismissed. So, why would the government care?

 

[Darby]

If this wasn't real, then why would she need security from government agencies? Instead, she would be better off with an entertainment lawyer to keep tabs on the misuse and abuse of her son's right of publicity. But not even the people that have been closest to this case believe the story. Anyone who does is dismissed. So, why would the government care?

Again, Jay, you're catching on. She isn't real. The government wouldn't care. The government could care less about yet another time travel story on a time travel themed BBS. Even if someone did care all they had to do was read the first several posts where Titor described the gadget. It was pseudo-science world salad that had no bearing on actual physics. It would then be, as you point out, dismissed.

Boomer, on the other hand, is real. As the author of the posts Boomer needed a lawyer to handle the entertainment industry needs for commercializing the Titor Saga. So he hired Larry Haber. Haber isn't "just another lawyer." He's well known in the industry and had held top executive positions at both Disney and Universal before going into private practice.

 

[Darby]

I would be a bit more focused on personal security and remaining anonymous for fear of military reprisal from a future foreign adversary.

Why? You'd fear government reprisal for time travel posts made on a time travel themed BBS? Especially when the posts on the science side were utter nonsense? I'd be more fearful of the science fiction writers guild's reprisals for posting bad sci-fi.

 

[Jay Walker]

I'm leaning towards a weekly podcast with guests, radio style. I feel like we have the customer base for it.

Ultimately, I am saying that there is a different way to approach this story. A fresh perspective. A way to get people talking about this "happening".
I believe that John had a message that was unfortunately politically driven, but was motivated by something more than just politics, he was talking about society in general.
I think that I have proved that there is still much more to discuss. Look at this thread. It already has over a thousand views. Real or not, there is more to this story.

 

[Jay Walker]

Why? You'd fear government reprisal for time travel posts made on a time travel themed BBS? Especially when the posts on the science side were utter nonsense? I'd be more fearful of the science fiction writers guild's reprisals for posting bad sci-fi.

Just to be clear. John didn't do anything illegal. Hoaxes are perfectly legal until someone gets ripped off or hurt. No harm, no foul.

 

[JudasTitor]

Why? You'd fear government reprisal for time travel posts made on a time travel themed BBS? Especially when the posts on the science side were utter nonsense? I'd be more fearful of the science fiction writers guild's reprisals for posting bad sci-fi.

I was thinking a bit more foreign than that.....
Fast forward to 17:50 and listen until 18:30.


View: https://youtu.be/IzFeGDLWOiU?si=ci2DZ3qmOFbrb4T9

Now that's exactly what Single 7 said was going to happen, back in 1998. He stated that we stole the time travel tech from their crashed ship.

 

[Darby]

Just to be clear. John didn't do anything illegal. Hoaxes are perfectly legal until someone gets ripped off or hurt. No harm, no foul.

And if you check my posts for the past 25 years you'll find that I've said exactly that at least a hundred times. It was an experiment in online story telling at a time when doing such had never been done before. Shouting at the top of his lungs that the Titor Saga was some sort of criminal fraud was Javier Cortez's bag. He was eventually banned here and I banned him on Anomalies.net for the troll.

Titor was not the first to tell an online story. It was a brand new method of mass communication in its infancy. Larry Haber liked Boomer's approach sufficiently enough that he was convinced to be the attorney handling the effort for the JTF.

 

[Jay Walker]

And if you check my posts for the past 25 years you'll find that I've said exactly that at least a hundred times. It was an experiment in online story telling at a time when doing such had never been done before. Shouting at the top of his lungs that the Titor Saga was some sort of criminal fraud was Javier Cortez's bag. He was eventually banned here and I banned him on Anomalies.net for the troll.

Titor was not the first to tell an online story. It was a brand new method of mass communication in its infancy. Larry Haber liked Boomer's approach sufficiently enough that he was convinced to be the attorney handling the effort for the JTF.

My Bad. At least I know we are on the page with that.

Are you saying Haber picked up the Titors as clients on his own accord? I was under the assumption that the Titors approached him.

One more question. Do you honestly believe that the Haber brothers were responsible?

I mean, personally, technically, maybe, but in my gut, I don't feel it.

 

[JudasTitor]

My Bad. At least I know we are on the page with that.

Are you saying Haber picked up the Titors as clients on his own accord? I was under the assumption that the Titors approached him.

One more question. Do you honestly believe that the Haber brothers were responsible?

I mean, personally, technically, maybe, but in my gut, I don't feel it.

Are you familiar with the Single 7 interview on Art Bell's C2CAM a week before johntitor faxed Art Bell in July 1998?


View: https://youtu.be/fgzTtz3ukfI?si=s3lSX-3z3dD_OpgY

Allegedly, 7 warned Bell of his wife's death to prove he was who he said he was. Big rumor on the Post2PostAM BBS.

 

[Jay Walker]

Are you familiar with the Single 7 interview on Art Bell's C2CAM a week before johntitor faxed Art Bell in July 1998?


View: https://youtu.be/fgzTtz3ukfI?si=s3lSX-3z3dD_OpgY

Allegedly, 7 warned Bell of his wife's death to prove he was who he said he was. Big rumor on the Post2PostAM BBS.

This is why TT_0 is so special. I had listened to the entire Coast 2 Coast episode that John's fax was read in. It was a time travel special, where people would call in claiming to be travelers. One guy called in claiming to be from a future in which the South had won the Civil War.

7 has trouble keeping his story straight. First, he doesn't understand that the 4th dimension is time. We don't live in only 3 dimensions; we live in 4. I think he meant the 5th dimension. Secondly, he did try to predict y2k, but described it as a depression, which would be economically and historically inaccurate. I mean, he could be talking about a recession, but not a depression. He said it wouldn't be a disaster like everyone worries but would be a little depression. There is no such thing as a little depression. By definition a depression lasts several years and is by definition severe.
It was interesting that he claimed that he had no idea what area 51 was. He did seem naive about certain things, which I think supports his claim. I mean, he seemed genuinely peeved when he didn't understand the reverse speak mention.
All in all, I think that 7 was someone that might have a story, but I don't think he was a traveler. Well, he might have been, but his story was kind of cliche. A war between aliens and people with a nice time travel twist. Still, not really a relatable story.

On a side note, I love how Art tried to have another caller claiming to be a traveler too, I think was hoping they would argue with each other. Classic radio move.

But the real giveaway when it comes to Single Seven, he stumbled during paradox questions, and his reference to the 4th dimension is one of those misconceptions made in pop culture. He seemed generally ill-informed. It was strange however that it didn't know who the current president was.

What are other people's take on Single Seven?

 

[Darby]

Are you saying Haber picked up the Titors as clients on his own accord? I was under the assumption that the Titors approached him.

No. I'm not suggesting that Haber sought out Boomer and picked him as a client. It could have happened but it's highly unlikely. However, as an attorney Haber had the choice of taking on the JTF as a client or not. He chose the former for whatever reason.

I'm also not suggesting that the Haber Brothers had anything at all to do with the Titor Saga other than Larry being the attorney and directing the business after Boomer stopped posting. Other than some spaghetti thin circumstantial evidence there's nothing to link Haber's brother to the Titor Saga. This supposed connection came from the Italian production for RAI (Radiotelevisione Italiana) and was picked up by Razimus aka Hoax Hunter. Razimus was a young guy trying his best to be an investigative reporter but in the end was nothing more than a typical conspiracy theorist. Here's what he had to write about me as a suspected "John Titor":

"[2] "Darby" (774) *** FAIRLY SUSPECT
ANOMALIES.NET mod, TTI mod, chief John Titor expert. Darby is also very candid and open, I emailed him for this investigation and he quickly responded. I doubt anyone this open would be working for Team-Titor, but he does seem to know more than he admits. Perhaps he has been contacted by Team-Titor and has made an agreement with them after finding out who they are, it is unknown. Darby has been on ‘Coast to Coast AM’ as an expert on John Titor, he has yet to release any breaking information that we don’t already know on the subject. He was able to connect Larry Haber with Disney and Celebration Florida, and basically proved he is the official lawyer of Team-Titor, or The John Titor Foundation. I will have to ask him about his facts on the subject in greater detail."

With him the best way to remain a suspect was to deny his "evidence". His real downfall is he would half read a post and jump to conclusions. For example he finds is suspicious that "I was able to connect Larry Haber with Disney and Celebration Florida". Had he just fully read the initial post where I made the connection he would not only have known how I did it but he could have followed the trail and discover it for himself. It was right here on this forum. At the bottom of this page you'll see "Terms and Rules". The original content is long gone because Raul Burriel is no longer associated withe TTI. But back then the TOS agreement was there along with several more pages not actually associated with the TOS Agreement or this site per se. The other pages were from every other site that Raul either owned or was the Admn/SysOp. They included the Celebration BBS, Magical Mouse (Disney's travel agency) and more. I checked out the Celebration BBS. Everything I needed to know was right here under the hood. Razimus didn't follow the evidence.

Long story that seems off topic. But it isn't. It's a typical example of how people handle facts when the facts don't match their expectations and biases.

 

[JudasTitor]

Perspective Gentlemen. Look at the post 2000 .com bubble recession from the perspective of John's wealthy family. NASDAQ losses of 75%. Have you ever lost several million dollars before? Imagine what it took to earn it back.

AI Overview

The dot-com bubble, a period of rapid and unsustainable stock market growth in internet and technology companies (dot-coms) from 1995 to 2000, burst in 2001-2002, leading to significant market losses and the collapse of many companies.
Here's a more detailed look:
The Rise: The dot-com bubble was fueled by the excitement and speculation surrounding the internet and its potential to revolutionize business and communication.
The Peak: The NASDAQ Composite Index, which heavily featured technology stocks, rose dramatically, peaking on March 10, 2000, before the bubble burst.
The Burst: The bubble burst in 2001-2002 as investors realized that many dot-com companies lacked solid business plans and were unsustainable.
The Consequences: The bursting of the bubble led to a crash in the stock market, particularly in the tech sector, and the collapse of many dot-com companies.
Examples of companies that went bust: Pets.com, Webvan, 360Networks, Boo.com, eToys.
Companies that survived and grew: Microsoft, Amazon, eBay, Qualcomm, and Cisco.
Investor losses: By 2002, investor losses were estimated at around $5 trillion.
The NASDAQ fall: The NASDAQ fell by 75% from March 2000 to October 2002, erasing most of the gains since the bubble started building.
The S&P 500 recovery: The S&P 500 took almost six years to fully recover from the crashes of 2000 (the dot-com bubble) and 2008 (the global financial crisis).

 

[Jay Walker]

Perspective Gentlemen. Look at the post 2000 .com bubble recession from the perspective of John's wealthy family. NASDAQ losses of 75%. Have you ever lost several million dollars before? Imagine what it took to earn it back.

AI Overview

The dot-com bubble, a period of rapid and unsustainable stock market growth in internet and technology companies (dot-coms) from 1995 to 2000, burst in 2001-2002, leading to significant market losses and the collapse of many companies.
Here's a more detailed look:
The Rise: The dot-com bubble was fueled by the excitement and speculation surrounding the internet and its potential to revolutionize business and communication.
The Peak: The NASDAQ Composite Index, which heavily featured technology stocks, rose dramatically, peaking on March 10, 2000, before the bubble burst.
The Burst: The bubble burst in 2001-2002 as investors realized that many dot-com companies lacked solid business plans and were unsustainable.
The Consequences: The bursting of the bubble led to a crash in the stock market, particularly in the tech sector, and the collapse of many dot-com companies.
Examples of companies that went bust: Pets.com, Webvan, 360Networks, Boo.com, eToys.
Companies that survived and grew: Microsoft, Amazon, eBay, Qualcomm, and Cisco.
Investor losses: By 2002, investor losses were estimated at around $5 trillion.
The NASDAQ fall: The NASDAQ fell by 75% from March 2000 to October 2002, erasing most of the gains since the bubble started building.
The S&P 500 recovery: The S&P 500 took almost six years to fully recover from the crashes of 2000 (the dot-com bubble) and 2008 (the global financial crisis).

What it took for the companies that survived and grew listed above to earn back that money lost would be a massive terrorist attack that would kill thousands causing the government to invest heavily in tech companies for security and technology.
But, I am not aware that John had a wealthy family. Central Florida (where John said his family lived) mostly get their wealth from tourism being so close to Disney, and Universal Studios in Orlando.
Which actually, If I understand what Darby is saying, plays into Buriel and Larry Haber's connection to Celebration Disney etc.

Still, what does this all have to do with John and the claims he was making?

You know, I remember making shoebox diagrams as part of book report or whatever in grade school. Sometimes, when I looked at the diagram, I would just hate the way they looked, to me every fold, and every line was inaccurate and made the whole thing look messy. Later, in college, I would be very wary about what I handed in because I knew every flaw. Now, I write sometimes, and I am so critical of my work, I fear what my editor will say. It wasn't until recently that realized why. I was too close to my own projects to see that relative to my position, my perspective was just an illusion. Sometimes you got to step back and look at with fresh eyes.

Is it possible after 24 years, you guys might be looking too closely at your project?

 

[JudasTitor]

What it took for the companies that survived and grew listed above to earn back that money lost would be a massive terrorist attack that would kill thousands causing the government to invest heavily in tech companies for security and technology.
But, I am not aware that John had a wealthy family. Central Florida (where John said his family lived) mostly get their wealth from tourism being so close to Disney, and Universal Studios in Orlando.
Which actually, If I understand what Darby is saying, plays into Buriel and Larry Haber's connection to Celebration Disney etc.

Still, what does this all have to do with John and the claims he was making?

You know, I remember making shoebox diagrams as part of book report or whatever in grade school. Sometimes, when I looked at the diagram, I would just hate the way they looked, to me every fold, and every line was inaccurate and made the whole thing look messy. Later, in college, I would be very wary about what I handed in because I knew every flaw. Now, I write sometimes, and I am so critical of my work, I fear what my editor will say. It wasn't until recently that realized why. I was too close to my own projects to see that relative to my position, my perspective was just an illusion. Sometimes you got to step back and look at with fresh eyes.

Is it possible after 24 years, you guys might be looking too closely at your project?

A time traveler goes back to live with his grandfather in 1975, and you didn't think his family became immensely wealthy by 2000??? Now I thought John was clear with everyone about relocating his family to a ranch in the midest?

 

[Jay Walker]

A time traveler goes back to live with his grandfather in 1975, and you didn't think his family became immensely wealthy by 2000??? Now I thought John was clear with everyone about relocating his family to a ranch in the midest?

It isn't that I don't believe you, I do. But I am missing what the implication is.

Btw, you meant midwest, not the middle east, right? If so, I would be really lost. ;p