Parallel Universes, and our counter parts in them.

The parallels of science and spirituality are evident throughout all that is *little smile*... I find commonalities in concepts that allow for an overlap and redefinition of perception... Language today acts as a barrier...it is not that there are not words to describe the concepts but rather the misunderstanding between speaker and listener... This is great scientific wisdom available in old timeless spiritual teachings... for those interested in *alternative* spirituality...
www.spiritweb.org has hours and hours of excellent reading even for the scientically minded G*

There is a huge amount of info presented on merkaba fields..light vibrations...sound vibrations..cellular effects there of...and on and on I suspect that there is a bit of something for everyone *chuckles*
www.dreamweaving.com the bottom link on the home page has some interesting info presented on light language working with color and shape and the vibrational aspects of each...

and last bit of sharing that I found as an excellent science overview of otherness for those spiritually minded www.hedweb.com/manworld.htm#what

Looking forward to visiting again :-)

Be safe and dream sweetly.

WS
 
Thanks for "sharing" with us wandering soul, the window of opportunity is still "open" as I am confident that you are not alone in your belief, that our next level of evolution consists more of a blending, or merger of science & spirituality.

Perhaps we may get over ourselves, and evolve yet, that is of course omitting condecending religions, and kooky cults, that are obsessed with a perverted charismatic view, that they are the only ones that got it right, and the rest of humanity is on a luge ride straight to some eternal firey doom.

*sighs of disenchantment, & pitty for the blind who have become prisoners of their own mind, yet still clinging to hope as long as there is still a remaining glimmer of light at the other end of the tunnel.
 
That's very nice and all. That we're all in agreement and discussing humanities future.

"Spirituality"

So how long do you suppose this will all go on for? Will it be eternal? Cause I sure do value my passion as a human being. Not a spiritual one, but a fair one. With sudden drops of rationality now and then, makes me feel so alive
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. That's my spirituality. Well maybe not really. More like animal instinct. Keeping in touch with my primitive side. After all, we are human by nature
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.

"Right...? We ain't doing but mammals."

Well I guess now a day you can't say that without offending someone. So sorry
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. But it's true, it's true.

Nothing beats that great feeling you get when your capable of doing what your urges tell you to do. Makes me feel so HUMAN
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. YEAH!

Sure beats being a pacifist who dedicates his life to spirituality, and hardly accomplishes anything. Yucky, that leaves a bad taste in my mouth. That’s not for me
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. Not again I should say, incase I was in a past life. (Same birthday as Buddha here)…

So in conclusion. I believe spirituality and acceptance is a curse. Because you never have the same intensity or passion as you did, before you embraced it. I call that giving in to evitable standards of the masses. All this insisting on behalf of the oohhhs and ahhhhs of spirituality and metaphysics now a days on people, is forcing everyone to go along with it. Like it’s hip to be into it. Surely a fad that I hope dies out quick like Pokemon.

You see it everywhere. Even when you go get your cup of coffee, for God sakes. Makes me sick, if you ask me. All this spiritual mayhem imposing into your subconscious like a friend you’ve always had. Glad I never got brain washed into it.

Anyway’s, some of you will see my point later, if not now
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. It’s plainly obvious.

Let me know what you all think.

Truly,
-Javier C.

P.S. Anyone heard of the show "Earth: Final Conflict?" Check out their website here]] www.efc.com to see when they will air in your area. And make sure to watch it, and see someone there who looks like me, and has my last name
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Hehe.

Keep in mind this highly spiritual race ideal, when you your selves become spiritual.
 
TimeTravelActivist

*little chuckle* It is clear that you are confusing spirituality with religion...Religious dogma that prevents or demeans human- ness is, unfortunately, everywhere...and certainly creates confusion.

I merely suggest that exploring concepts.. be it of light workers... or concepts presented by *mystical cultures* such as The Emerald Tablets have a foundation built on science... I was reading that it is now suggested that light waves travel faster than the speed of light *chuckles* This concept has been known to mystics since... *shugs* well since whenever...

I simply believe that thinking from one paradigm automatically tunnels vision...

There is a great deal of research occuring now on the *growing of crystals* to store and then retrieve information in the computer industry...the retrieving of information is where there is difficulty...not the *growing or imprinting*
There has long been a spiritual belief that natural crystals hold the history of creation and beyond...and that some humans access that info...and that we all have the inate capacity...

Perhaps we shall all learn alot when the technology created allows for retrieval...or perhaps a crystal reader and a computer programer should get together for some coffee and compare notes *little smile*

...and maybe that is already occuring in a parallel coffe shop somewhere *trying to get back to topic* *wink*

Be safe and dream sweetly.

WS
 
"Raises Eyebrow"

I'm sorry; perhaps it's just me... But what did you say?

Your plainly obvious, and my plainly obvious seem to be at odds. Mine was easily explained. However, what language were you speaking in? I didn’t understand...

Spirituality and religion are a combination of the 2.

They both involve in believing in something greater, and they both have requirements. They both seek out truth. Right?

Therefore, I don't think I confused anything.

You can't have 1 without the other.

Just one other obvious observation I wanted to point out. Isn't it a funny concept that we had 1 extremely conservative person here who was deeply into 1 side of reality? And now we have another 1 here
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but the exact opposite of the other. "LOL, now that's funny
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"

I think I'm probably the guy in the middle here
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.

-Javier C.
 
*sad little sigh*

Bridging the gap between the two requires understanding of both extremes...

..and one does not, contrary to some belief systems, negate the other.

It is unfortunate that a dialog on simililarietes between extremes does not appear welcome.

Be safe all and dream sweetly.

WS
 
TTA:

..."Don't quite agree with your definition of clones though,"...

Please allow me to try to clarify -

A "zygote" is a cell produced by the union of two gametes. (egg+sperm). i.e. A fertilized egg if you will.

Identical twins occur when this single fertilized egg at an early stage in it's further development, divides in such a manner so as to produce two individuals. Since these two individuals must therefore have the exact same genes, DNA et al, they are in fact biological clones.

They have the advantage of having originated at the same point in time and therefore suffer none of the cell age discrepancies inherent in cloning from an older individual. (Note that they are ALWAYS the same sex due to the identity (and identical-ness) of their genes.)

Fraternal twins develop within the womb as two SEPARATELY fertilized egg cells. They MAY be of the same sex, but no process determines that they must be. Two distinct zygotes if you will. The same applies to triplets, quads, etc. In lower mammals, these are referred to as "litters" whereas in humans the above terminology is used. But in the case of Fraternal twins, it's still the same thing. In Identical twins, it is not.

They are true biologocal clones. How can they NOT be? It would seem that identical twins is actually the purest form of cloning possible since it occurs in the initial stages of cell formation of the embryos. And it occurs naturally, although rarely in higher mammals.

Lab cloning is actually the long way around and requires the use of a "surrogate" mother that has no role in the genetic process, to carry the embryo to term in mammals.

MOKRIE:

..."I have heard from more then one doctor involved in transplanted organs that the cells therin may also carry residual memorys from the donors. Cloning may also carry traits of the donors."...

Yes, I've heard this also. A recent Discoveryl show featured this. Who knows. maybe it is linked to the fact that we know INDENTICAL twins have a certain "shared awareness" bordering on ESP in some cases (for lack of a better definition) that is as yet not understood, but still recognized.

Good point.

TO ALL:

When it comes to parallel universes, I confess I must sucomb to "Occam's Razor". To wit:

"Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem." ...or

"No more things should be presumed to exist than are absolutely necessary."

Of what NECESSITY are parallel universes?

Surely they can NOT be just to serve as hypothetical solutions to OUR mere musings on the paradoxes in time travel. Seems they would need more significance than just to satisfy the inability of us to make all our equations balance the way we'd like them to. They may solve THAT problem, but how is it not an invented problem that doesn't really exist in the first place?

Peace.
 
Achems Razor..That too has been declared as "Flawed", Modern particle physics have produced discoveries which negates that ancient misnomer.

Fermi Labs, just south of Chicago, recently discovered proof of "Neutrinos" which are said to be the building blocks of all forms of matter. beyond that I have an article, and several posts which describe "Nanotechnology" and our ability to manipulate particles of matter from the atom up!... Putting two & two together, and you know have the ability to use this technology, coupled with Genetic Engineering, perhaps one day sooner than you think, we may design humans with the physical ability to walk trough walls, and fly through the air next?
Generation X-Men?



<This message has been edited by Time02112 (edited 25 July 2000).>
 
Time02112, AH HA! Your last remark is what I've been saying all along! Not only will we be going further engineering people and artificial intellegence AND melding the two together ala cyborgs but humans are evolving into something strange and new on their own. Why? Who the heck knows but more and more people are flying out of their bodys, having psychic experiences etc. 100 years ago there was not this much happening. Lee, One doctor locally did a cornia transplant and the eyes brought with it the sight of the donors death and scared the patient AND doctor half to death. The patient had no idea who the donor was but discribed in detail the last minute of life for the donor.
 
Mokrie,
Can you believe I'm finding my self-agreeing with you more and more everyday? Strange No
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?

My deja vu has now increased another % this week. And it's still only getting stranger, my reality/consciousness. You name it...

It's like if I'm reaching my limit, or ready to break on through to the other side. Feels like it...

Dreams are weird too, by another 10 fold this week. I dream of being in other states, on missions, always an adventure. More then usual that is
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.

However, being an Activist, it's in my nature to look at this with skepticism. Some skepticism
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.

Well gotta go to bed now. God only knows what brand new adventure I find my self in today
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. Tell you about it later, if I can remember it.

-Javier C.
 
Activist, Don't you go dissappearing on us now! Have you ever thought about all the people that dissappear every year? Sure some just run off and some are murdered and some even kidnapped but many many are never found. Not a trace of them ever again. Where'd they go? I wonder if they had alot of deja vu before they went "poof"!!!!!!
 
Mokrie,
Thanks for reminding me
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. Mainly all my dreams have the theme of being held captive, escaping, and fighting for my survival and the worlds. Although, I rarely fight alone, I have teams I operate with. These people feel like my long lost friends. They always watch my back
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.

I rarely have nightmares where I lose a battle or die. And if I do, I am brought back to life. I been shot in the chest, head, body, limbs severed. Etc…

Sometimes painful, others times I wouldn't feel a thing. But it's always a humbling experience to wake up to this life. A Live
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. I am thankful to God for that.

But anyway's, I don't think I will disappear. I hope I won't disappear
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. But if I ever do, I hope it's for the better. Not for the worse. I will not allow to be silenced. My dreams show that
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. But thanks for your concern... Do you have any deja vu experiences your self Mokrie? Let me know if you do, I’d really like to hear about them
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. Buh bye for now.

-Javier C.
 
I have a theory as well, i used to believe that mirrors were the key to alternate dimensions.
since most people only use 10% of their brain then could the parallel person in the mirror be using 10% of your brain and you 10% of his?
and what of the people who have obtained more than 10% of their maximum brain input\output? would the parallel be using the same percentage of max brain i/o or would they use the normal amount of max brain i/o?
 
Javier C.

I guess I missed the "politically incorrect" aspect of my clone definition.

Could you elaborate please.

Thanx.

Time02112:

Occam's Razor is not a "misnomer". It is a logic process that is just as valid or invalid as it ever was. Depending on what form of logic one chooses to engage in.

I don't see how your follow up comment relates to it. Could YOU please elaborate. i.e. - In the case of my question, "Of what necessity are parallel universes?", could you provide some "necessity".

What does "walking thru walls" have to do with it?

Thanx.
 
O.K. here is your "Elaboration"

*Particle Phisics
and it has everything to do with "walking through walls"

Perhaps you should re-read my post?
you see what it describes is that our technology, is catching up to enable us to manipulate structures of mass utilizing a combination of several advanced technological techniques, combining nanotechnology, genetic engineering, and particle physics, we will have the ability to displace, or manipulate the structures of mass, or their fields that create barriers that prevent one from passing through another as such, ergo "walk trough a wall indeed (perhaps) yet it may not have come about yet to be proven due to the infintile stages of delivery of these new found discoveries, it does not negate the potential of what applications may be devowed to discovery years latter, and who's to say how long this may take? for all we know, someone else with the proper resources & funds to support the research, perhaps has already done so, and in the intrest of security & proprietary protective reasons, is not yet ready to disclose their discoveries to the rest of the general public.

Now,..... do you get me?
 
Well to understand what you missed about your definition. First of all you need to know what being Politically Incorrect means.

If you were to call a female that works for the post office, a postman. That would be politically incorrect. Same as with a female policeman. The politically correct way of saying it would be, postal worker and police officer.

Cause if not, it’s like generalizing them, saying that all postman and policeman, are men. And we all know that that’s not true.

See where I'm going with this?

Also, if your using words that offend people to describe something or someone. For example someone got hit in the balls. You might offend a few people
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. Instead, you should say, that the person got hit in the testicles.

So it's all about how you word what you say. Make it sound proper.

It's a world where free speech often times has to be censored. Or on the other hand, you might get sued
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especially if you do it at work.

But about your definition about twins being clones. That's something I'm sure most people wouldn't like to hear. Especially if you are a twin, but different then your sibling. Might offend them. Cause to them, they may look the same, but they are individuals with a mind of their one. And saying that their clones makes them seem like everything about them is the same. And that's not politically correct.

Get the point
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? Did I elaborate enough for you, Lee? If not, let me know. I would be happy to explain more about it to you.

-Javier C.

<This message has been edited by TimeTravelActivist (edited 27 July 2000).>
 
Time02112:

"Now,..... do you get me?"

No, not really.

You go on to say, "walk trough a wall indeed (perhaps) yet it may not have come about yet to be proven due to the infintile stages of delivery of these new found discoveries, it does not negate the potential of what applications may be devowed to discovery years latter, and who's to say how long this may take?"

...which is all well and good, but by your own words, as yet totally unproven.

What I'm trying to get is for you to specifically address your thoughts on why you think "Parallel Universes" offers a solution to this problem. I can't see that connection you are trying to make here.

If Particle Physics has ANYTHING to do with Parallel Universes, that is pure speculation and I would appreciate your thoughts on why YOU think the two are connected.

The problem is that "Parallel Universes" has been trotted out many times in the past as a hypothesis for some problem or another, that could not be explained at the time, such as the EPR Paradox.

Thus far, in every case, the hypothesis has either proven to be wrong or still in the realm of hypothesis. Not Thoery.

Thanx.

Javier C:

No offense, but methinks thou dost presume too much. The "Political Correctness" of the examples you provide are well established in current American Folklore and one would have to be a total hermit to have not recognized them.

In the specific case of the Identical Twins however, what could possibly be politically incorrect about a biological fact? I think most intelligent people who happen to be Identical Twins are a bit above all that.

Besides, my original post already states that this situation in no way detracts from their individuality due to the separateness of their personal minds/souls.

They even tend to grow further distinct as time goes by due to the influence of their individual experiences and environment. They do however seem to possess an undefinable quality for empathy" with each other that has been noticed but is as yet unexplained. We discussed that also.

The few Identical Twins (actually 4) I personally know, are in no way offended by being referred to as biological clones. I dare say most other would feel likewise.

Like I said, no offense, but I think you may be making an issue of something where there isn't one in the first place.

Peace.
 
I was only answering your reply, how you asked me to. No big deal intended. You know that
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.

If you don’t want me to tell you how some people may perceive things (not just how you do), don't ask me to elaborate. It's quite simple Lee.

-Javier C.

P.S. Don't tell me your going to be someone in this message board who thinks he knows all the answers by replying to everyone on a post, one by one going down the list, attempting to debunk their logic and beliefs
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? We already had 1 other person like that here. Do you see him around anymore?

<This message has been edited by TimeTravelActivist (edited 29 July 2000).>
 
Lee, let's get somthing straight here, I may have a different point of view, but I am by no means bent on attacking you at every opportunity I seek, just for the sake of argument. In fact I do agree with some things you have said, and I will be the first to admit, that even I am not infallable from error, let alone impecibly compliable to the expectations of others.

As you say what is of the proof, or evidence in speculation, all I can say is that I have never assumed nothing of the sort, in fact I agree with what you said in your previous post, "It is a logic process that is just as valid or invalid as it ever was. Depending on what form of logic one chooses to engage in."

I will leave it at that.

Peace to you too.
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