Message To You All

Rainman I do not buy into anyone's else's propaganda,these are the facts.
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Baloney.
It's apparent you have not done any research yourself.
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You are absolutely wrong.
If you had, you would know that a building would not fall down from a fire.
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Do you want an engineering answer? Or are you not to be "troubled" with those kinds of facts? Fire induces heat, which not only creates increased stress in structural members (due to expansion), but it also weakens the structural rigidity at high temps. Jet fuel burns at VERY high temps. You are WAY out of your league here, pal.
Why would the building fall straight down on it self like a controlled demolition?
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It's called gravity. You can even do an experiment of your own to convince yourself of this: Create a structural model of one of the twin towers (including mass fractions above and below the aircraft impact zone). Then severely weaken the vertical structural members in the aircraft impact zone. The WEIGHT of the upper portion of the building is due to what again? That's right, GRAVITY. And what direction does gravity operate in? STRAIGHT DOWN!

If you'd like to have a technical debate on these types of engineering issues, I'd be more than happy to educate you on how your current thoughts are clearly not in conjunction with engineering analysis. In fact, given what I have just presented about gravity and the vectorial direction it acts in, I should immediately ask you to present an analysis of why you think a building should "tip over" instead of collapsing straight down under the conditions that the WTC was in on 9/11.

RMT
 
As i said metal warping would have introduced a torque to the to half of the tower.
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I don't necessarily disagree with much of what you have written, GS. However, any induced torque due to warping would be at least an order of magnitude smaller than the dynamic loads caused by collapse of the vertical load bearing members. Furthermore, there is no evidence that such loading would be asymmetric in any one direction.

I do think that you might be understimating how hot the fire may have burned. Adiabatic flame temps of JP4 and JP5 are in the 1800-2000 degree C range. And even tho not confined within the small volume of the engine's combustion chamber, the volume of fuel (the airplanes were loaded for trans-continental flights) coupled with material in the building burning would certainly put the fire in the range where significant stress increases and significant decreases in structural rigidity would play a factor.

To ensure that friend Qronos has some good material to study, HERE is a civil engineering analysis to review. And allow me to quote the specific area that backs up my claims about stress and rigidity in the face of high temps:
However, as fire raged in the upper floors, the heat would have been gradually affecting the behaviour of the remaining material. As the planes had only recently taken off, the fire would have been initially fuelled by large volumes of jet fuel, which then ignited any combustible material in the building. While the fire would not have been hot enough to melt any of the steel, the strength of the steel drops markedly with prolonged exposure to fire, while the elastic modulus of the steel reduces (stiffness drops), increasing deflections.
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And one more fact to consider with regard to "controlled implosions" of buildings: The "pancaking" effect is not something created by the shaped charges or their relative detonation times. It is, in fact, the nature of gravity and mass momentum. So, one could say, that the WTC "pancaking" looked like a controlled implosion because demolition experts use gravity to their advantage in just this manner!

RMT
 
Rainman,


I know you believe what you say to be true. But I am here to tell you what happened. You can list all the links you want, but the facts are over 70% of Americans no longer believe the official story of the government. The answers are right in front of you.
 
(Good_Scientist) Looks like someone has done his homework.


Several firemen at the location report explosions right as the towers where falling. Oh by the way footage of the firemen saying this can be found by going to infowars.com. One of the firemen said they heard a boom boom boom like a controlled demolition. But I'm sure he was a conspiracy person to right? He just made that up. No one has explained why building 7 fell? Very small fires but yet the building just fell. Anyway I told you all what happen. That's that!
 
I know you believe what you say to be true. But I am here to tell you what happened. You can list all the links you want, but the facts are over 70% of Americans no longer believe the official story of the government. The answers are right in front of you.
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This is not a very technical rebuttal of the engineering facts I have presented. Care to provide a source for your latest unfounded allegation (the 70% number)? Perhaps an Alex Jones poll?

You can make all the statements you wish to about you "knowing" what happened. The fact that you cannot provide real evidence to support them (or challenge what more than one independent expert analysis has concluded) means you are blowing hot air.

Several firemen at the location report explosions right has the towers were falling. Oh by the way footage of the firemen saying this can be found by going to infowars.com. One of the firemen said they heard a boom boom boom like a controlled demolition.
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Can you guess what consecutive concrete floors of a massive building might sound like as one falls onto another falls onto another? Can you provide any technical analysis from a verified expert that SUPPORTS this view? I have provided such that dispels it, so you are going to have to do at least as well as that information to support your (or Alex Jones') claim(s).
No one has explained why building 7 fell? Very small fires but yet the building just fell.
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Again, you are just flat out wrong in your first assertion. In fact, a highly respected technical publication had an article that dispensed with quite a few of your hero's conspiracy myths:

Popular Mechanics Debunks 9/11 Conspiracy Myths

Read that whole thing through, and then write to your hero, Alex Jones, and ask him to provide ANY sort of equivalent technical rebuttal to this. He cannot.

Qronos, you appear to be one of the worst cases of how shallow information (which cannot be scientifically validated) can lead you to believe propaganda. The fact that you do not question things very deeply at all, and apparantly do not possess the technical abilities to ask or answer probing questions, means you have a mind ripe for molding and a pocket ripe for picking. I hope you have not given Alex Jones any of your money.

RMT
 
Rainman


Boy you really don't know what is going on in your own time do you? The poll that I spoke of is a poll that was all over Fox news and CNN. Not Alex Jones. LOL!!!!!! Alex is not my hero, he is a man that is putting his life on the line for his nation. All the things on his website are news articles from many different news sources all over the world. So what are you talking about? Do you even know? You want research? Here it is: http://www.infowars.com/resources.html#TIES now let me guess, you will find some way to explain all that away right? LOL!!!! What scientific proof have you offered? You post a bunch of meaningless babble and then pat yourself on your back. The only thing you have proved is how shallow you are. And give Alex Jones my money? Why would I do that? And again, what are you talking about? You call yourself an American believing everything the government tells you? I'm willing to bet money you think that oil is from a bunch of dead dinosaurs under the ground right? And the reason why your gas prices are so high is cause they are running low on oil, and that they can't keep up with demand.

Alex Jones is a tool my friend. The only thing Alex Jones will be getting from us is info. I feel sorry for you, you really need to wake up.
 
TTA_01

New Orleans is the city of the dead in 2065. Why does it have that name? It's not there anymore. That city will be wiped off the map. The US stock market will make it all the way to 12ooo and then some and crash big.
 
No time travel is not illegal. What I'm simply doing is telling you all what is going to happen if the Mexicans are allowed amnesty. I will say this one last time. If Mr Bushes bill passes all the way, and the Mexicans are granted amnesty, that will start a Chain of events. The Mexicans will have to be tracked. They will pass a bill to chip the Mexicans. Ok. Then a little while later another bill will be passed to chip kids "TO KEEP THEM SAFE" Then. They will say it will be much easier for businesses to keep track of employees by getting them chipped. But let me say I think the resistance has delayed this for awhile, not sure yet. Then after they put toll roads all over the place and kill the Internet in the form you know it in now, then they will try to chip all the rest of you. Many people will fight this. Some are now fighting. So many people are now awake that it has slowed the globalist agenda. The Internet 2 will be something you must also fight if you want to be able to do the things you are able to do now on the net. In my past the Internet 2 was born and boards like this was no more.
 
Yes you are right, influencing it was Illegal in the past, not anymore. Some things we are allowed to try to change. Scott fought 2 years for this mission. I don't think it will be a total success, but I think it will slow things down even more. Some of the "Time Travelers" that has posted on this board and other boards are real. Alex Jones has been contacted before. He does not know that the people that gave him the info about 9-11-01 before it happen where Time Travelers. When we come here, 2 people help us, just as they helped the others. They know who we are and they let us stay with them until our missions are over. We are grateful that they take us in. As for the 9-11 info I gave you, that's it on that. You have been warned.....
 
The Mexicans will have to be tracked. They will pass a bill to chip the Mexicans.
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As a Mexican, I must correct you Qronos16, that not all illegals here are Mexican.

And I can assure you, many of my Mexican raza will not allow to be chipped, I'm fairly certain of that. The whole mark of the beast thing, and since many are of Latin descent and deeply religious Catholics, it will not sit well for many of the millions of illegals here, and who would also see this as unconstitutional, IMHO.

TTA
 
qronos....

tell us about the lizard men. we want to know about the lizard men. TELL US ABOUT THE LIZARD MEN!

ps - please tell me where oil comes from. im fascinated.
 
The poll that I spoke of is a poll that was all over Fox news and CNN.
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Show me. Cite the link or at least show me where to find it. I believe there are polls about George Bush's approval rating where 70% disagree with his handling the job. But I have yet to see one with this number of people saying they don't believe the official findings of the 9/11 panel. Again, show me. You have ignored refuting my scientific analysis...can you at least back your claims for this poll?
All the things on his website are news articles from many different news sources all over the world.
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Generalized statements ("all") with non-specific references are always trouble. Once again...SHOW ME. I've looked for REPUTABLE new sources (i.e. ones that make sure they are reporting truth before they report) on that website, and found none. IN FACT, HERE is a link to a story on the website you love so much that COUNTERS the 70% number you used in your propaganda above!!! Will you try to explain that? And oh BTW, you will note the "source" for this article is "rawstory.com". Not exactly the AP or UPI, now is it? In fact, let's read the "Mission Statement" from rawstory.com and see what we find:
The Raw Story is an alternative news nexus. We draw upon a panoply of news sources and select those stories we think most intriguing to a audience seeking news underplayed by the mainstream media.

At the core, our goal is to unearth and spotlight stories underplayed by the popular press, in particular those which highlight betterment and open people’s eyes to injustice throughout the world.
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Basically, they admit to pandering to a specific type of people, rather than trying to report news accurately that would be acceptable to ALL people. And you will note there is absolutely NOTHING in their mission statement about integrity of their reporting... nor any commitment to "make sure the story is true". This is always the problem with "alternative news nexus" sources. /ttiforum/images/graemlins/confused.gif

now let me guess, you will find some way to explain all that away right?
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No. Political statements and mudslinging is rarely, if ever, scientific. I am not as weak-minded as you to think that things like this could be proven or disproven completely.

Yet, I would still like you to address and try to refute the SCIENCE that I (and Popular Mechanics) have used to dispute your claims. If you cannot, then you should re-think your beliefs in what you are being spoon fed.

You call yourself an American believing everything the government tells you?
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I examine FACTS and believe it when I see that the FACTS are supported by sound, scientific analysis. Unfortunately, it appears, you act on emotion...dangerous. These are just the type of people that propagandists are looking for. People who cannot think critically.

I'm willing to bet money you think that oil is from a bunch of dead dinosaurs under the ground right? And the reason why your gas prices are so high is cause they are running low on oil, and that they can't keep up with demand.
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You cannot refute my science, and now as you see your own 70% poll BS is refuted by the website you love so much... so now you try to change the subject. Sorry. Let's stay on the topics YOU started first, and try to put them to bed. So far, I am winning as I have scientific facts on my side. You have emotion and doublespeak, and you lack the ability to refute good science.

I feel sorry for you, you really need to wake up.
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Not as sorry as I feel for you. You should really go procure yourself an education so you can think for yourself, instead of mimic the lies other people feed you.

RMT
 
Rainman


Your right I did get the poll numbers wrong. it's 70 million Americans not 70%. Here are some link for you so you can see for yourself. http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/WO0605/S00465.htm and also http://www.prweb.com/releases/2006/5/prweb388743.htm . As you can see they have nothing to do with Alex Jones. Boy you seem to want to meet with him yourself, I will see what I can do next week. You talk about Alex Jones more then I do. LOL!! He is the best source for news on the subject in this time. As for your scientific babble? You posted a link from Popular Mechanics and then patted yourself on the back and said you won the argument. You yourself have not proved anything. Now back to why I'm here, you guys may want to take a look at this http://www.livescience.com/scienceoffiction/060531_rfid_chips.html I got this from the Drudge Report http://www.drudgereport.com/ And the resistance got a victory yesterday take a look http://www.bradenton.com/mld/bradenton/news/breaking_news/14700677.htm But things are even more worse then this. I did not come here to argue with people who think that what I say is crazy. I mean yes what I say seems far out and nuts, but it's your future if we can't stop it. I for one don't think we can stop it all the way. I think we will slow it down by several years and the death toll from other things will not be as high. I will not speak of 911 again. I did not come here for that. All I did was tell you what happen and some of you choose to believe lies. If you don't have enough sense to do some real research and find the truth on your own, I mean real research not reading Popular Mechanics and then saying wow it must be true! And then thinking a bunch of propaganda is true cause the government said so. Your the type of person that makes this country look bad. The person who says I did do research but really didn't cause he believed what the government told him. I have said this before and I will say it one last time. Wake Up!!!
 
well I want to know something when will happen in the year 2007,2008,2009,2010 and when is the first time travel machine come out?? also do you have a picture of time travel machine?? write back....Qronos16
 
Your right I did get the poll numbers wrong. it's 70 million Americans not 70%.
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You got more than that wrong, as I shall have to show you. You also twisted the interpretation of the poll. Here is what you claimed:
but the facts are over 70% of Americans no longer believe the official story of the government
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So far, we have finally forced you to admit the first part (70%) is NOT a fact. We are making some headway. Now we need to work on the "no longer believe the official story of the government", because it is clear to me from reading the actual Zogby poll that THIS IS NOT FACT EITHER! (You bonehead). I challenge you to find anything even CLOSE to the words you use in the official poll. You won't find it. Rather, these are YOUR twists to the ACTUAL questions in the poll, which had NOTHING TO DO with "belief" in the 9/11 report. Rather, the question was whether they thought the attacks were fully investigated. Here are the questions and responses:
26. Some people say that so many unanswered questions about 9/11 remain that Congress or an International Tribunal should re-investigate the attacks, including whether any US government officials consciously allowed or helped facilitate their success. Other people say the 9/11 attacks were thoroughly investigated and that any speculation about US government involvement is nonsense. Who are you more likely to agree with?

The attacks were thoroughly investigated 47%
Reinvestigate the attacks 45
Not sure 8
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So once again, we see that YOU ARE NOT REPORTING FACTS AT ALL! Rather, you are reporting SKEWED INTERPRETATIONS of different facts! That makes you a liar, and that would also mean (to an educated person) that ALL things you say are suspect. Do you like it in this hole you are digging for yourself? Hmmmm? /ttiforum/images/graemlins/yum.gif
As you can see they have nothing to do with Alex Jones.
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Doesn't stop him from twisting the information (just like you did) to serve his own purpose, now does it?
As for your scientific babble?
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As has been shown, you claim to show facts and yet they are not facts. Now you are claiming that the actual scientific facts which I have presented are babble? Nice tactic, but it is extremely weak.
You posted a link from Popular Mechanics and then patted yourself on the back and said you won the argument. You yourself have not proved anything
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Does it matter whether *I* myself did the proving? Doesn't it just matter that the FACTS are verified? TRUTH is what wins the argument, not who delivers the truth. Furthermore, I have the ability to analyze the facts in the Popular Mechanics article and know they are valid. You, apparantly, cannot say as much.
Now back to why I'm here, you guys may want to take a look at this http://www.livescience.com/scienceoffiction/060531_rfid_chips.html
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Dude, just how shallow of a reader are you? I mean seriously!! Let's look at the VERY FIRST SENTENCE in this article (same link as provided by Warrior381, another scientific giant):
Scott Silverman, Chairman of the Board of VeriChip Corporation, has proposed implanting the company's RFID tracking tags in immigrant and guest workers.
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Dude... this is NOT a recommendation from ANYONE in government (which is what you would have us believe). Rather, if you will raise your reading skills above the "Dick & Jane" level, you can clearly see the recommendation comes from the chairman of the board for the company THAT MAKES THE FREAKING RFID CHIPS! You are really destroying what little credibility you came to this board with! Honestly.
If you don't have enough sense to do some real research
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Please define what you mean by "real research" and how or why it should be ANY different than the scientific FACTS that I have presented here!!! Don't just say "do real research" if you cannot define it in very specific terms.
I mean real research not reading Popular Mechanics and then saying wow it must be true!
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You obviously did not bother to read that article, for if you did you would see the REPUTABLE and SCIENTIFIC sources (multiples of them) that performed the analysis on all the 9/11 conspiracy theories. You also would have seen that what these experts said about WTC 7 not only completely debunked what you claimed as fact, but it ALSO supported the FACTS that I gave about how metal supports undergo increases in stress and decreases in rigidity when exposed to heat.

So again, you use non-answers in an emotional attempt to get people to believe you know more than I do on this subject. You don't. And you have not even done a good job of whipping people into an emotional frenzy. How about providing DETAILED rebuttals to either the FACTS I presented which debunk your WTC 7 claim, or that refute the Popular Mechanics analysis? No, you won't, because you cannot, and that means you are NOT presenting facts!
The person who says I did do research but really didn't cause he believed what the government told him.
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Please show me where ANY of the FACTS that I have presented come from the government.
Wake Up!!!
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If I am asleep, then I am afraid you are brain dead! /ttiforum/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

RMT
 
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