John Titor and the IBM 5100

1. Computer tech.
2. correct, CSCE but did graduate from a tech university.
3. USAF did take the 5100 machine. Made it classified and Brekit terminated me.
4. Correct, I did had access to the 5100 machine. Bought it out of curiousity and showed it to the people at brekit. It sparked problems then all of a sudden DOD came in.
5. I dont believe in time travel or john titor, however wish to know how in the heck he knew about this.
 
interesting indeed...

i think maybe a certain someone is back to polish up their skills...

you remind me of someone ive read about, but have never spoken to. and i have stated many, many times that if i wouldve been here at the time he was, his story wouldve went nowhere. did my email get to you? :D

do you really want to play? /ttiforum/images/graemlins/devil.gif
 
ruthless,

not interested in playing. im interested in buying a machine and having a partner who has knowledge about electronic engineering.
 
5. I dont believe in time travel or john titor, however wish to know how in the heck he knew about this.

I was asking about your story. It was a hoax. Correct?

As to the USAF taking the IBM 5100:

You personally witnessed this or someone told you that's what happened?

If you witnessed it, how do you know that it was the USAF?
 
Ruthless, What games are you interested in playing with Pro7? Pyschological?

Darby: where did pro7 mention USAF? I only sae DOD and NSF.

Pro7: How many Ibm5100s where made? like around 70 yes. I did not find a number at wiki but I can remember reading about it somewhere.....?????

and whats up with the talk of games?
 
titorite,

This is why its being sent to a air force laboratory because our modern computers simply do not have the technical ability to do a such thing.
[snip]

"Legacy Code"--"Source Code"--"Binarial Programming" what ever name we use for this code, there is no misunderstanding that this IBM 5100 machine is unique. I wish I could prove this technology to the world, however the company that I used to work for, got it shipped out and hidden, perhaps to be buried in the bunkers under the pentagon.

It's back on page 4 (11/7/07).

The real problem with the situation there is this:

Pro7, according to his story, has no security clearance. He refused the SBI which resulted in his termination. He, therefore, would have no access to the information about the machine being "classified". He's out of the information loop. He has no right to know and he has no need to know. If such a situation had developed (the govmit came in and confiscated the computer) he'd have still been so far out of the information loop that he wouldn't have even known that much.

Again, this is assuming that the story is true - which it isn't. It's somewhat easy to snow people who want to "keep an open mind" but who have never actually handled sensitive material and information that requires a security clearance.

It's fairly easy for people who have been in that situation to read the post and know whether there's even a hint of reality in it.

And let's review his story so far:

It started with him being a top university CS/EE graduate who was out of the loop. A headhunter tracked him down, out f the blue, and offered him this high paying job working on "projects". He did that for four years.

THen they pick up an IBM 5100 from some random used computer shop along the street in whatever town they worked in. Not a specific computer - just the first one that they could find locally for $50.00.

Genius that he is, he tears into the thing and discovers "Reverse Binarial Whatever" - its zero based instead of one based.

Then the MIBs come along. They confiscate the computer, he gets fired and feels that its necessary for him to go into hiding.

But he doesn't...

Then he says that he really doesn't know much about computers because he just a computer tech and his company simply repairs computers.

I dunno but I think that a couple of people have it right. This story is getting a bit long in the tooth and a bit short in the legs.

Prayer to the Hoax Gods:

Please, someday, have a hoaxer come bye who can write; who has at least a solid high school education; and who has read at least one non pop-sci physics text in his/her life. It doesn't have to be once every two weeks as you send them to us. But once in a while, Oh Lords of Hoax. Once in a while would be nice.
 
LOL Darby

you love to twist things around do you? Are you getting paid for doing this? I bet you are.

Psychological Warfare training on your behalf doesnt quite work with me. /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif

eeekkk I shouldn't have said that! damm..so sorry. /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
Oh by the way,

Im here to STAY! YAAAAYYYY!!!!

I am gonna teach people about you guys, who you really are, where you're from, what you like to do to people, how much drinks you had in the last hour, how much money you got in your bank accounts, awww.. lets see...whatelse? A to Z!

Yahoooo!.....
 
Pro7,

Im here to STAY! YAAAAYYYY!!!!

I am gonna teach people about you guys, who you really are, where you're from, what you like to do to people, how much drinks you had in the last hour, how much money you got in your bank accounts, awww.. lets see...whatelse? A to Z!

I suggest you curb your enthusiam and watch your step. Some of what you describe above could be considered threats to the privacy of people on the board, if not worse. So rest assured, you are being watched and you most definitely will not be permitted to do "A to Z".

We have already established (and you have confirmed) that you have lied about some things.
RMT
 
Hi Thumbscrew,

During my 35 years working in Silicon Valley, I must have used thousands of EPROMs and I can tell you that those two Signetics ICs, shown in your photos in posts 81 and 84, are not EPROMs.

Although I searched those part numbers like you did, I couldn't find exactly what they are, but from a CPU architecture standpoint, I suspect they are OTP-PROMs (One Time Programmable PROMs). OTP-PROMs are a close cousin to EPROMs, the primary difference being that the OTPs have no quartz window and are therefore not UV erasable.

You could very well be right, and I might agree they are OTPs. But let's agree to this, they are certainly PROMs. And I would go further and say that, based on my reading of the schematics in section 5 of the IBM 5100 maintenance manual, those two chips are most likely the "Control Read Only Storage (ROS)" (256x32), which contains all the microcode that processes instructions via the ALU. Whether they are EPROMs, UVPROMs, or OTP-PROMs is not certain at this point. Mostly because we can lend no credence to what Pro7 claims about actually having removed the label. I would still bet there is a window underneath them, but I could be wrong. I am still looking around for where someone may have some old Signetics databooks.

If you revisit your first photo again you can see that the IC is a ceramic packaged IC with a gold plated metal lid that was soldered to the top after the bonding process was completed. You can even see the solder gleaming around the edges.

The first picture? I don't think so... you mean this one?
ibm5100-circuit2.jpg


You certainly cannot tell if it is "gold plated". And the later photo I posted (the one with a dash-c part number variant) certainly shows no sign of any gold plating nor solder.

It would not have made any sense for IBM to have produced the 5100 using EPROMs, as they were about 5x more expensive than the OTP-PROMs.

I think that is eminently debatable. If these do hold the Control ROS as I suspect from my reading of the HW schematics, then there may be a sensible reason to make the EPROMs in that the entire "guts" of the Turing Machine that executes as the "processor" are defined in those PROMs. Often times, designers will elect to use more expensive parts, ESPECIALLY if using those parts contributes to the extensibility of a product. Since this was IBM's first foray into what eventually became "personal computers", there is every reason to think the designers saw a product LINE evolving from it, and thus making those PROMs into EPROMs would allow product upgrades and extensions without having to toss the chips. And let's not forget the inherent risk of "rolling your own processor" approach they took. There could have been errors in the Control ROS that they may have had to one day correct. And it sounds like this is true, as I have seen several reports around the internet on just this problem: People getting "Control ROS" errors. This may even explain why the part number went through what appears to be a couple revisions. Normally, original part numbers have no dashes. In the photos I posted we can see there is a "-B" and a "-C" revision, which likely means there was a "-A" prior to them, and then the "no revision" original part before them.

But all this is a minor point and is not intended to detract from the excellent debunking you and others did of the nonsense claims presented by Pro7 in this thread. Keep up the good work.

Thanks, and I appreciate your chiming in with your thoughts. At this point I would be happy if Pro7 simply acknowledged that whatever his "reversible binaurial" feature is, it is merely related to the BASIC interpreter, and not the HW.

RMT
 
Back then, to get a computer repair job, you must be a certified computer scientist with a csce degree.

Back WHEN? And this is simply not true even if it was as far back as the 70s. Technicians have never needed degrees. They usually got their experience by being an apprentice or through the military. My dad was an engineer for AT&T from the 50s through the 80s, and he worked with PLENTY of computer technicians (at Bell Labs no less) who were certainly NOT "certified computer scientists".

Darby, Im 49 yrs old lol and english is not my primary language.

Oh really? I certainly would not guess you as 49 by the somewhat immature tone to some of your posts. So what IS your primary language? Where did you grow up? And when?

The company I used to work for is called brekit. It sounds like "break it". Thats what we all did there, we took apart machines to replace basic stuff, etc..

No web site? Why can this company not be found on the internet? Florida, right? Is that where you said you were working for them? And is it "Brekit Inc." or perhaps "Brekit LLC"? There seems to be no company I can find through web searches with this name.

When I mentioned about the window, according to ThumbScrew, I did not know that the window has to have a quartz window. What I saw was a opening into the chipset and thought that was called a window. There was no quartz on it.

Apparantly, you are not aware that a window can be made of quartz without looking how you would normally find quartz in nature (i.e. opaque). Are you aware that quartz can be refined and made into very nice, very clear windows? It seems you don't.

Also are ceramic stickers dielectrics? Thats what I was told. Its dielectric.

The stickers are not ceramic. The chip packaging IS ceramic.

Thumbscrew, can you tell me why the machine with the original proms can reverse basic input? I was told that this prom was responsible for such processing in the processor which allows such reversing?

Ah ha! So now we see how little you really know about this (and yet you were pretending you did know). Not even a page ago you were playing this game of "yes, RMT, keep searching your are getting closer"... as if YOU had the answers, but were not going to tell me. Now it seems you really have no clue... you are going on what someone told you (i.e. heresay).

This is the main reason why they "recalled them" and replaced those original proms. IBM once said that it was a error in manufacturing and it had to be recalled.

Can you show evidence of an IBM service bulletin that documents this? Or is this just something else that someone told you?

BL means "Base Line"? I came up with Bell Labs. Maybe Im wrong about this but its what I came up with.

I'd say you are wrong. Back in those days, Bell Labs was (and still is!) part of AT&T. In fact, while I was growing up I lived in Berkley Heights, NJ and my father worked both at Bell Labs and in Manhattan for AT&T. But once again... let's clear the air and perhaps you will admit that you really don't have much (if any) verifiable "inside" information on this computer or these chips... right?

RMT
 
<pre><font class="small">code:</font><hr> The first picture? I don't think so... you mean this one? </pre><hr>

No, not that picture, I meant the first of the two I referred to in my post. That would be your photo in post #81, found in the first post on page 5 (if you display 20 posts per page). That would be the picture with the -B part suffix. (I don't want to repost it here because it is 1179 pixels wide and forces me to have to use the horizontal scroll bar in order to read the text.)

<pre><font class="small">code:</font><hr> You certainly cannot tell if it is "gold plated". </pre><hr>

Whoa! You don't have calibrated spectrographic eyeballs?

LOL, no, I meant that by general appearance and from decades of experience, I can tell those are Au plated metal lids, especially since they have the IC part number printed on the lids. It would have been counter-productive for Signetics to print the part number on the fused quartz window! And it wouldn't make sense for Signetics to have printed the part number on a sticker that could be subsequently removed and discarded by the customer. Moreover, in my years of experience, no IC manufacturer ever shipped their EPROMs with stickers already on them, that was always added by the customer (IBM, in this case) after they programmed them.

That also means that the suffix number for the Signetics parts would not indicate IBM's rev number for the instruction set data programmed into those PROMs. The most common use of suffixes like -B, -C was to indicate the part's speed, and the -LC would most likely indicate a low power version of the -C speed.

<pre><font class="small">code:</font><hr> And the later photo I posted (the one with a dash-c part number variant) certainly shows no sign of any...solder. </pre><hr>

Try the photo at the top of page 5 with the -B parts. I can clearly see the gleam of light reflecting from the concave solder bead surrounding the lid.

<pre><font class="small">code:</font><hr> At this point I would be happy if Pro7 simply acknowledged that whatever his "reversible binaurial" feature is, it is merely related to the BASIC interpreter, and not the HW. </pre><hr>

As far as I'm concerned, that nails this whole discussion about "reversible binaurial" code right there! The CPU will never see any BASIC code as an instruction that would be recognized by the CPU's instruction set. This is very telling to me about the lack of real computer expertise Pro7 actually has.
 
RainDude,

Who cares. You dont give a crap about privacy anyways. I know you dont.

Too many jack daniels for you old man.

Update:

I just checked on your father's information:

"I'd say you are wrong. Back in those days, Bell Labs was (and still is!) part of AT&amp;T. In fact, while I was growing up I lived in Berkley Heights, NJ and my father worked both at Bell Labs and in Manhattan for AT&amp;T. But once again... let's clear the air and perhaps you will admit that you really don't have much (if any) verifiable "inside" information on this computer or these chips... right?"

RMT

LOL LOL LOL... yeah right, any more lies you gotta give us?
 
ThumbScrew,

I was just asking. In reality, I do not know much about electronics engineering, heck even computer programming. However I am a professional at "something". You dont know the whole story. Look at my user name. /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Raindude, darby and others love to edit and twist people's stories to make them look like they are insane, mentally incapable of understanding things, they also love to have people do judgements on them, to make them feel completely inferior. They think they are superior, which in reality, they are not, they are nothing more than government disinformation agents/hackers. They get paid for doing this crap to people. They will deny it, but cannot prove it.

"Im being watched?...oooohhhhh Im so scared!!!! HAHAHAHAHA" Actually Im watching YOU. There are certain personal things I know about you guys. MUHAHHAHAHAHA...
 
and this:

quoted:
"Article Information

A microprocessor-based portable computer: The IBM 5100
Roberson, D.A.
Proceedings of the IEEE
Volume 64, Issue 6, June 1976 Page(s): 994 - 999
Digital Object Identifier
Summary: The introduction of the IBM 5100 portable computer with its high-level APL and Basic languages presents yet another application for the Powerful versatile microprocessor. This paper presents the IBM 5100 from several aspects. The first section is an overview of the computer including a description of the machine's physical attributes, functional capabilities, languages, and features. A detailed description of the characteristics of the 5100's hardware and firmware architecture follows. Later sections discuss the logical and physical attributes of the computer's microprocessor and application areas for the 5100...
"
end quoted
From:
IEEE web page

--
regards
Apollo 19 and 20
 
Raindude, darby and others love to edit and twist people's stories to make them look like they are insane, mentally incapable of understanding things

Please demonstrate precisely HOW any of us have "edited or twisted" YOUR story. I mean seriously... it is YOUR story! At most I have been asking you to clarify your story, while pointing out that it does not square with any sort of existing knowledge with respect to computer HW or SW. If anyone thinks you are mentally incapable of understanding things, it is because of YOUR OWN WORDS. Don't blame that on us!

For example: You start out pretending to be some person who allegedly was part of a team doing lots of technical HW and SW work. Now in your recent posts you are (finally) coming clean that you do not have the knowledgebase that you were trying to get us to believe you had. IOW, you told fibs, were caught in them, and are now having to fess up. Can you see how this was YOUR DOING and had nothing to do with anyone twisting or editing what YOU SAID?

they are nothing more than government disinformation agents/hackers. They get paid for doing this crap to people. They will deny it, but cannot prove it.

Folks like Darby and myself hear this all the time. And I think I can safely even answer for Darby in saying that we actually wish this were true! I'd just love to get paid for dealing with hoaxers and people who seek to get others to believe trash science. That would be an awesome job description for me, cuz I could stay at home in my underwear all day. Of course, I would be immediately asking for a raise for having to deal with hoaxers like you! :D

Actually Im watching YOU. There are certain personal things I know about you guys. MUHAHHAHAHAHA...

You are free to watch (me) all you want, with any information you can get on me that is out there (and there is a fair amount, I am pretty much an open book). But where I would caution you is don't be thinking you will share anyone else's information in this forum. If you do, you will see yourself banned faster than your "reverse binaurial" feature can read BASIC code backwards!


RMT
 
LOL LOL

What made you think I was lying? Didnt you know that my posts had someone else's words? YEAAAAAA they were altered, not by me, but by some idiot who is poking fun and insanity to me. Of course I naturally THINK you and others had something to do with it. Who in the HELL would alter my DAMM email address to [email protected]? in my PROFILE??? THEN AGAIN TO [email protected] HUH???? MY ORIGINAL email address was the same hotmail address which was hacked. It kept being changed. I had to change it again to a gmail address.

Now I saw my damm posts changed and IP changed TOO! I traced a set of posts back to CABLE ONE NETWORKS who did the alterations!!!!

This is the MOST UNSECURED forum I EVER SAW! /ttiforum/images/graemlins/mad.gif

YEA "Folks like Darby and myself hear this all the time. And I think I can safely even answer for Darby in saying that we actually wish this were true! I'd just love to get paid for dealing with hoaxers and people who seek to get others to believe trash science. That would be an awesome job description for me, cuz I could stay at home in my underwear all day. Of course, I would be immediately asking for a raise for having to deal with hoaxers like you"

THOSE ARE your words. YUPPPP... that CONFIRMED it! You or ur buddies are doing this crap to discredit me and who God knows what else! Even I dont TRUST your forum emails. They arent private AT ALL!
 
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