By chance do you mean your disbelief in luck or do you mean I found it with purpose? When I was about 10, I was really interested in the paranormal. You know, going to the library and internet reading stuff out. This continued until I chanced upon the Anomalies forum first I think, and I read about JT. This changed my whole direction a lot. At that time I started reading Bible prophecy and it changed my direction to religion. In the Anomalies forum, I was directed here by a post and I signed up and here I am. I tried to sign up at the Anomalies but apparently there was a problem and I gave up. Never did try again though.
God? Part 2
- Thread starter Warrior381
- Start date
By chance do you mean your disbelief in luck or do you mean I found it with purpose? When I was about 10, I was really interested in the paranormal. You know, going to the library and internet reading stuff out. This continued until I chanced upon the Anomalies forum first I think, and I read about JT. This changed my whole direction a lot. At that time I started reading Bible prophecy and it changed my direction to religion. In the Anomalies forum, I was directed here by a post and I signed up and here I am. I tried to sign up at the Anomalies but apparently there was a problem and I gave up. Never did try again though.
creedo299
Epochal Historian
Expression of robot soul, within a made object:
When Creedo came into the room, he said that he wanted all of them?!
They were beautiful, young and talented.
But the problem here was, that they were all Japanese.
*Edit, in Japan the very best of their community is meant for their community.
This is well understood, like not wearing those damned shoes into a more traditional Japanese domo.
Got it? Throw those shoes over there and don't wear them into the house.\\End edit
The head of the lab said, "This is out best".
Creedo replied, "I know that they are your best, but will they work for me"?
The story began to unfold, as in modern technically theocracy, that Japan produced a sect of very special girls.
These girls, produced incredibly accurate and pleasing products within
their hands, of out of the ordinary technical nature.
It was these particular girls that he wanted, as the servo-systems that he envisioned, were also exacting well beyond belief.
Light years from there, in distance and time, the first wave of bad robots was repelled.
They had needed humans to rescue them, not Roy's gone bad androids.
The sergeant looked at Roy angrily and shouted at him, we've almost been killed by these gone bad robots and your wanting to send for more to rescue us?
Creedo replied, "It's what you do and how you treat them when they are made, not any precepted fear of them".
The sergeant came up to Roy and began to tell him that the situation was hopeless and the next wave would kill them all.
Roy spoke softly; "These are my own personal robots.
Their programming and the hard datafile, which emulates their life attention span, is from my making.
I've activated them before and they did not attack me.
The sergeant began to continue his tirade when Creedo simply said, "I trusted them, okay.......?
You have to damned well trust them, or nothing works out at all.
In the hypership, twenty very finely tailored androids now came.The now came from a'far to fight off forty-seven of the corrupted killer bots.
Creedo closed his eyes and in a vision saw the pretty early twenties Japanese wimen.They were all posed on the assembly_line, making the very best electronics components, that one could possibly imagine.
They were meant for Japan.What they had produced, was meant to be a part of the very best.
When Creedo came into the room, he said that he wanted all of them?!
They were beautiful, young and talented.
But the problem here was, that they were all Japanese.
*Edit, in Japan the very best of their community is meant for their community.
This is well understood, like not wearing those damned shoes into a more traditional Japanese domo.
Got it? Throw those shoes over there and don't wear them into the house.\\End edit
The head of the lab said, "This is out best".
Creedo replied, "I know that they are your best, but will they work for me"?
The story began to unfold, as in modern technically theocracy, that Japan produced a sect of very special girls.
These girls, produced incredibly accurate and pleasing products within
their hands, of out of the ordinary technical nature.
It was these particular girls that he wanted, as the servo-systems that he envisioned, were also exacting well beyond belief.
Light years from there, in distance and time, the first wave of bad robots was repelled.
They had needed humans to rescue them, not Roy's gone bad androids.
The sergeant looked at Roy angrily and shouted at him, we've almost been killed by these gone bad robots and your wanting to send for more to rescue us?
Creedo replied, "It's what you do and how you treat them when they are made, not any precepted fear of them".
The sergeant came up to Roy and began to tell him that the situation was hopeless and the next wave would kill them all.
Roy spoke softly; "These are my own personal robots.
Their programming and the hard datafile, which emulates their life attention span, is from my making.
I've activated them before and they did not attack me.
The sergeant began to continue his tirade when Creedo simply said, "I trusted them, okay.......?
You have to damned well trust them, or nothing works out at all.
In the hypership, twenty very finely tailored androids now came.The now came from a'far to fight off forty-seven of the corrupted killer bots.
Creedo closed his eyes and in a vision saw the pretty early twenties Japanese wimen.They were all posed on the assembly_line, making the very best electronics components, that one could possibly imagine.
They were meant for Japan.What they had produced, was meant to be a part of the very best.
trollface
Quantum Scribe
If you want a simple answer, then don't ask questions that have complex answers.
Yes, obviously, there are times when I find my reasoning to be superior to that of certain others. I know the same is true of you, as I've experienced one of your oh-so-clever "traps". Had me weeping for a week to be so thoroughly outfoxed, that did.
Actually, no, not in my opinion. I think that people rarely think their beliefs through dispassionately and rationally. I also don't think that people often examine their beliefs particularly closely or critically, either.
It's a bit of a stretch, though, isn't it?
And yet it doesn't stop you doing it, either. Or sending minions off to carry out your "clever" traps about arms and digestion.
What a moral high-ground you stand on indeed.
Thank you for agreeing with my point, there.
And let's include all the facts while we're at it, shall we? Koresh had nothing but a history of co-operating with authorities, and was friendly with the local police. He even invited them over to inspect his weapons. The weapons were legally bought and legally owned. The FBI and BATF had no evidence of law-breaking whatsoever. They didn't even have much in the way of credible probable cause.
I'm not one for conspiracys, and I'm certainly not a supporter of firearms. However, I really do think that there's quite a high probability that the situation was deliberately engineered to get rid of the group. Second most probable is that the situation was the result of gross incompetency. And third (and really quite unlikely) is that it was a well-planned and well-executed bit of Federal investigation that was based on firm and solid evidence.
Try this site: http://www.firearmsandliberty.com/waco.massacre.html
BTW, your link doesn't work, and I can't find any mention of Waco on the main site. My link does speak to the credibility of Schroeder as a witness, though.
I can't say that I know everything he preached, but he certainly seemed to be preparing for an apocalypse, didn't he?
I don't think that I have ever said that the two were exactly the same. What I have said, and I quote, is: "That's true, but Jesus wasn't born in America in the 20th Century, either. I didn't say they were idenical, I said that they were products of their time who both claimed to be the son of God."
And, unless you're agreeing with me that Jesus was just a man and not a God, then you're helping to make my point. Jesus may not have espoused the killing of otehrs, but God sure as hell did. Are we not counting the Old Testament?
I ask again where you get those numbers from. If you add up the English letters you get 134, assuming that a = 1, b = 2 and so on.
Do the same for the names and you get 174.
So how are you getting your figures? And why did you compare to those particular names?
"I know the same is true of you"
You claim to know something of me? You know little to nothing, I am afraid. That is just a simple fact.
"as I've experienced one of your oh-so-clever "traps". Had me weeping for a week to be so thoroughly outfoxed, that did."
You're welcome. But I do not think you really got the point of it. At least not yet.
"It's a bit of a stretch, though, isn't it?"
Perhaps to you, but certainly not to everyone. And definitely not to me.
"And yet it doesn't stop you doing it, either. Or sending minions off to carry out your "clever" traps about arms and digestion."
Please show me where I have mocked anyone. Note that exposing people's tricks and tactics is not mocking them, it is exposing their true nature.
"The FBI and BATF had no evidence of law-breaking whatsoever. They didn't even have much in the way of credible probable cause."
So are you now claiming to be an expert in US law? Are you also claiming Koresh broke no laws? You have obviously made up your mind about what you think the truth is, and so there is no reason for me to take your bait. I have made my point about the primary difference between Christ and Koresh, and you have, for all intents and purposes, agreed with me. Therefore, my task is complete. You are free to believe your conspiracy theories, and that is what they are, your beliefs.
You claim to know something of me? You know little to nothing, I am afraid. That is just a simple fact.
"as I've experienced one of your oh-so-clever "traps". Had me weeping for a week to be so thoroughly outfoxed, that did."
You're welcome. But I do not think you really got the point of it. At least not yet.
"It's a bit of a stretch, though, isn't it?"
Perhaps to you, but certainly not to everyone. And definitely not to me.
"And yet it doesn't stop you doing it, either. Or sending minions off to carry out your "clever" traps about arms and digestion."
Please show me where I have mocked anyone. Note that exposing people's tricks and tactics is not mocking them, it is exposing their true nature.
"The FBI and BATF had no evidence of law-breaking whatsoever. They didn't even have much in the way of credible probable cause."
So are you now claiming to be an expert in US law? Are you also claiming Koresh broke no laws? You have obviously made up your mind about what you think the truth is, and so there is no reason for me to take your bait. I have made my point about the primary difference between Christ and Koresh, and you have, for all intents and purposes, agreed with me. Therefore, my task is complete. You are free to believe your conspiracy theories, and that is what they are, your beliefs.
prceptdboundry
Temporal Novice
In reply to:
By chance do you mean your disbelief in luck or do you mean I found it with purpose?
Both. As for finding it with purpose, the purpose may not be immediately obvious or the most logical conclusion, but it seems to me the happenings in my life, no matter how seemingly insignificant, have all played roles in who I am today and what I do.
I too, from a young age, have been interested in the paranormal. I have read and experienced many different ideas. Although I may not prescribe whole-heartely to any one of those ideas, they have combined to give me the life and *energy* of which I have today. I will refrain from expounding, as this is probably the wrong forum for such a discussion. /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif
By chance do you mean your disbelief in luck or do you mean I found it with purpose?
Both. As for finding it with purpose, the purpose may not be immediately obvious or the most logical conclusion, but it seems to me the happenings in my life, no matter how seemingly insignificant, have all played roles in who I am today and what I do.
I too, from a young age, have been interested in the paranormal. I have read and experienced many different ideas. Although I may not prescribe whole-heartely to any one of those ideas, they have combined to give me the life and *energy* of which I have today. I will refrain from expounding, as this is probably the wrong forum for such a discussion. /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif
trollface
Quantum Scribe
Indeed.
Unless the point was to make me laugh, then,no, I mised it. Perhaps you could explain it to me?
In which case you, by your own standards, are guilty of mocking other people's beliefs. Where was that moral high ground again?
Okay, how about this little gem?
I didn't have to search very hard.
So, you didn't read the link, then?
I am not at all unpersuadeable on the matter. It's just that if you look at the evidence in detail, then, for me, the only conclusion seems to be the one I've drawn. Perhaps you'd care to address the evidence, rather than attacking me, my values, my reasoning and (yes) mocking me for it? If you have evidence of Koresh's illegal weapons manufacture that the FBI doesn't even claim to have, then please share it.
Sorry, what have I agreed to? I don't think I have agreed with you. Can you point out to me where I did?
Just the once more, for the hard of thinking, I have never claimed to be expressing anything other than my opinion. There are those on this forum who claim that their beliefs are "THE truth". You are one of them. I am not.
trollface
Quantum Scribe
No. Superior wouldn't have been the exact word that I would have chosen, but it's pretty much accurate. You simply cannot claim that all forms of reasoning are equal. I think it's pretty clearm for example, that almost everybody on this site is a damn sight more able at creating coherent and rational arguments than Chronohistorian.
Or, to take another example from the last post of Azkaban's. I believe that my reasoning on David Koresh and the legality of his actions is superior to Azkaban's. I've based my opinion off of multiple sources which include witnesses, neighbours of te compound, court testimony and statements from those involved from the law-enforsement side - both positive and neagative. Thus, while I usually would shout "conspiracy" and "pseudo-military cult" at such a thing, I have found myself going against my impulses and believeing a story that supports the side whose principals I don't actually agree with (not to say I'm a huge fan of government bodys, that is). To support my viewpoint, I provided an extensive and exhaustive link which cites official and credible sources heavily throughout.
Azkaban's reply has been that I'm obviously just biased and a conspiracy nut and that I can't possibly know anything about it at all because I'm not an expert in US law (as far as he knows), and to back up his argument, he has provided nothing whatsoever.
You can see it as arrogant if you wish, but I think that in this case my reasons for believeing as I do are more solid than his. I have argued my case, Azkaban has cast aspersions on my character in return. My reason and debating skills are, in this particular case, superior.
So why did you convert the names of the painters into Hebrew? Why those 3 painters in particular? Did you convert their names first, and look for something in the Bible that they could be seen to match, or did you find the Bible verse first, and then set out to find painters that matched?
It just seems like a very bizarre comparison to me, and I'm still not entirely sure what you're actually trying to say with it.
True. Yes. Psychologically, it affects me and it dwells in my subconscious and I will like or do stuff that may be evoked by certain events in my life.
I've been exposed to a lot of paranormal and religious stuff. Just to interest you, my grandmother recently passed away and it's a taoist's funeral, although she converted to christianity before she died. However due to school, I did not witness the rites. In Singapore you are widely exposed to all sorts of religion, so the thought here is bascially quite different. Albeit, I am probably an exception of my age who is interested in religion.
KerrTexas
Super Moderator
""In Jewish literature the names of angels were considered to have a peculiar efficacy, and the British Museum possesses some magic bowls inscribed with Hebrew, Aramaic, and Syriac incantations in which the names of Michael, Raphael, and Gabriel occur. These bowls were found at Hillah, the site of Babylon, and constitute an interesting relic of the Jewish captivity. In apocryphal Christian literature the same names occur, cf. Enoch, ix, and the Apocalypse of the Blessed Virgin.""
The section of the Bible that the this is in reference to is the story of Sodom and Gomorah. The translations of much of the Bible has been altered or infused with political agendas. The quest is to research any and all information available to form as accurate an account as possible. This means comparing discoveries from several sources, and from the research of those who went before.
From a paper done by archeologists who were searching for the sites of Sodom and Gemorah...
""In Oct., when Richard and Ron arrived, they discovered it had just rained. This is a very rare occurrence in this area which receives as little as 1/4 to 1/2 inch of rain a year. It was still overcast while they were there, which helped immensely. The bright sun on the white ash was almost blinding, but now they could see quite well. And as they wandered through the area, Richard saw what looked like an open room or cave up ahead and asked Ron if they could go investigate it. They would have never gone in that direction if Richard hadn't seen this, but now they headed for it. And as they walked, they came upon a very large chunk of ash that had just recently fallen from quite a high section- probably because of the recent rain. Ron stopped to view this and saw numerous yellowish balls inside this broken ash, all surrounded by a reddish-black, crusty ring. Prying one out, he recognized it as sulfur. Smelling it, he KNEW it was sulfur. Here was the evidence they needed- all through the ashen remains were round balls of sulfur (brimstone) encapsulated in burnt sulfur. Now we knew what my "eyeball" was! In my specimen, however, the sulfur had apparently fallen out as it separated while I was carrying it for several hours.
As they looked around, now knowing what to look for, they saw these sulfur balls literally everywhere they looked. Before, we hadn't been able to see them because the loose ash had covered everything. But now the rain washed away the loose ash and caused this section to fall way, revealing these sulfur balls embedded through the ashen material. The reddish-black crystalline material surrounding the sulfur balls showed that they had once been on fire. It seems that as these burning balls of brimstone fell from the sky, they burned right through everything. And as they burned, after a while, molten material surrounding the sulfur cut if off from the oxygen, preserving it in the interior of the ashes.""
This is only a small segment of an entire research paper. They have discovered that the locations of Sodom and Gemorah as figured by historians, were by and large, wrong. In researching the locations from biblical accounts, they discovered the above mentioned area littered with these balls of sulfer.
This is only to point out that both cities did exist and they were destroyed just as told in the Bible. So, this leads one to look more closely as to whom the three men were. Since the three Angels are reputed to have been involved with story of Sodom and Gemorah, the application of Gematria to the verses just verifies the identity of Michael, Raphael, and Gabriel. There is even more to support this idea, since each Angel has specific areas of skill.
By comparing Jesus and Koresh as being similar is a demonstration that you havent fully researched all the information available. You have made an assertion that is missing vast amounts of supportive, documented, information regarding Jesus.
How can that be considered superior?
creedo299
Epochal Historian
Greetings: Saxon (8/15/2004 3:26 pm EDT)
From link; http://www.godlikeproductions.com/bbs/message.php?page=4&topic=3&message=414286&mpage=1&showdate=8/16/04
Lets See If We Can Weed Through Some Of The Distortion Here !! ... As This Is A Combination Of Many Cosmic Events & Peoples !!
"Fallen Ones/Fallen Angels"... Is A Reference To Those That At One Time Lived On The Planet Maldek ... Or If You Prefer Lucifer (The Light Bearer) !! ... This Planet Used To Exist In The 5th ?? Orbit !! ... What Happened To This World Was A Tragedy !! ... As There Were Those On That World Who Were Experimenting With Creating "Weapons Of War" !! ... Literally They Were Playing With Fire !! ... As They Created & Exploded A True Hydrogen Bomb ... Not Realizing That Hydrogen Was Contained In All Living Things !! ... This Had A Chain Reaction Effect ... Which Exploded The Planet Into Asteroids/Meteorites !!
The Beings Who Resided On That World ... Were Instantly Disembodied !! ... Their "Energy Essences" ("Souls") Were Freed Most Shockingly & Most Abruptly !! ... A Great Percentage Of These "Energy Essences" Came Here To This World ... To Be *Reborn Into New Bodies !! ... *(Which Unfortunately Included Those Beings That On Maldek/ "Lucifer" ... Who Were Experimenting With Creating "Weapons Of War")
"God" (Actually More Then One Being !!) ... Is A Reference To "The Creators" ... Which In The Collection Of Stories Compiled (Transcribed/Translated/Transliterated & Changed From Their Original) ... Refers To The Nefilim Of Nibiru !! ... The Astronauts ("Anunnaki") Who Came To This World Long Ago ... And Created Life/Lifeforms !! ... *It Was In Their Quest To Alleviate The Toiling & Suffering Of Those Anunnaki Mineworkers ... Mining For Gold ... To Augment Their Planetary Shields ... That EN.KI (Enki) ... The Head Master Geneticist/Scientist ... Was Called Upon To Create "Workers" For The Mines ... Which Later Became Known As "Homosapien Sapiens" Or "Humankind" !!
The Anunnaki Were Not The First Ones On The Scene !! ... As Before & Up To That Time ... There Were "Controlled Experiments" (The Original Experiments) Going On !! ... (Sanctioned & Agreed To By: "The Council Of Worlds") ... *Many Beings From Different/Planets & Dimensions ... Lent Their Genetics Experts & Expertise In The Projects ... To Create "Containers" ... Bodily Forms/Shells ... Which Could Withstand The Different Environmental Conditions & Radiations From Space ... That Exist On The Planet Terra/Earth !! ... *It Was These Bodies (Composite Genetics) From These Representative Beings (12 In Number) ... That The Extraterrestrial Energy Essences Wished To Function & Live In !!
Now It Was Not Intentional Mind You ... (And Unforeseen By Those Involved With The "Original Experiments") ... But In Coming To Terra/Earth ... In Search Of "Gold" (& Creating Beings In Which To Mine This Gold) ... They Upset/Disrupted Very Delicate/Precise Ongoing Experiments !! ... In A Controlled Environment/Setting !! ... Which Do To This ... Much Recorded Data Had To Be "Thrown Out/Voided" !! ... Those Involved With These Experiments Were Not Happy !!! ... *Petition For Redress Of Grievances ... On The Complaint That The "Anunnaki" Had Caused Interfered & Caused Damage ... Was Listened To In Council (Of Worlds) Chambers !! ... Both Sides Presented Their Case While The Head Of Council Listened Then Adjourned To Make A Rendering/Verdict !! ... The Decision Reached Was ... Yes The Anunnaki Had Interfered !! ... However This Was Not Malicious In Nature ... As They Did Not Know This Planet Was Under Restriction/Quarantine !! ... *In The Ruling Set Forth ... Henceforth Neither Those From Nibiru Or From Terra/Earth Will Have Contact With One Another !! ... And An "Energy Barrier" Will Be Created To Act As A Deterrent/Warning To This Effect !! ... *There Were Exceptions To This Ruling However !! ... As There Were Some Of The Anunnaki (Who Had Not Greatly Interfered And/Or Who Had Shown Compassion Towards Life On This Planet !!) ... Who Were Given A Choice !! ... To Return Home Or To Stay On This World !! ... *This Is The ET Version (Condensed) Of The Allegorically Told ... "Garden Of Eden" Story !! ... Those Involved With The "Original Experiments" Maintaining A "Controlled Environment" (The Garden) ... And The Snake/Serpent Representing: The Sirians ("Anunnaki") ... Who Accidentally Interfered !!
Quote: "If you will notice, it is this very same group, the "greys" as you call them" which are hotly persuing this agenda, because it is they and those like them who in fact do not have "souls" (spirits). Notice you never hear of "abductions" to this end being perpetrated by the "humanoid" group of "aliens". This is because these types typically have "souls".
If By "Greys" (There Are Many "Grey Colored ET Beings !!) ... You Are Referring To Those Also Known As Zeta Reticulians ... Then Your Information Would Not Be Correct !! ... *The People/One People ("Zetas") Are Master Geneticists ... Who Are Creators Of Life & Lifeforms (Amongst Many Other Services They Provide To Many Many Cosmic Species !!) ... They Are Of The Main Peoples (Of Many Groups, Subgroups, Branches) ... That Temporarily Detain/Borrow ... Those That Have Asked To Volunteer ... In The Many Projects Going On !! ... *The "Detainment Proceedings/Procedures" (Not "Abductio (s)" ... Is Part Of Their Jobs !! ... This Is Part Of What They Do !! ... *The Reason One Does Not Hear Of "Detainment" By Plejarins (Spelling ??) ... Known As Pleiadians Or "Nordics" ("Humanoid Group") ... (Although This Does Happen !!) ... Is That For The Most Part ... They Are Involved With Other Duties & Functions/Responsibilities !! ... *The "Zetas" Like The "Pleiadians" Have "Energy Essences" Contained Within Their Physical Shells/Bodies !! ... It Is Only Their Outer Appearance Which Is Different !!
*ST In BG *(Changed Signature/Address Line)
From link; http://www.godlikeproductions.com/bbs/message.php?page=4&topic=3&message=414286&mpage=1&showdate=8/16/04
Lets See If We Can Weed Through Some Of The Distortion Here !! ... As This Is A Combination Of Many Cosmic Events & Peoples !!
"Fallen Ones/Fallen Angels"... Is A Reference To Those That At One Time Lived On The Planet Maldek ... Or If You Prefer Lucifer (The Light Bearer) !! ... This Planet Used To Exist In The 5th ?? Orbit !! ... What Happened To This World Was A Tragedy !! ... As There Were Those On That World Who Were Experimenting With Creating "Weapons Of War" !! ... Literally They Were Playing With Fire !! ... As They Created & Exploded A True Hydrogen Bomb ... Not Realizing That Hydrogen Was Contained In All Living Things !! ... This Had A Chain Reaction Effect ... Which Exploded The Planet Into Asteroids/Meteorites !!
The Beings Who Resided On That World ... Were Instantly Disembodied !! ... Their "Energy Essences" ("Souls") Were Freed Most Shockingly & Most Abruptly !! ... A Great Percentage Of These "Energy Essences" Came Here To This World ... To Be *Reborn Into New Bodies !! ... *(Which Unfortunately Included Those Beings That On Maldek/ "Lucifer" ... Who Were Experimenting With Creating "Weapons Of War")
"God" (Actually More Then One Being !!) ... Is A Reference To "The Creators" ... Which In The Collection Of Stories Compiled (Transcribed/Translated/Transliterated & Changed From Their Original) ... Refers To The Nefilim Of Nibiru !! ... The Astronauts ("Anunnaki") Who Came To This World Long Ago ... And Created Life/Lifeforms !! ... *It Was In Their Quest To Alleviate The Toiling & Suffering Of Those Anunnaki Mineworkers ... Mining For Gold ... To Augment Their Planetary Shields ... That EN.KI (Enki) ... The Head Master Geneticist/Scientist ... Was Called Upon To Create "Workers" For The Mines ... Which Later Became Known As "Homosapien Sapiens" Or "Humankind" !!
The Anunnaki Were Not The First Ones On The Scene !! ... As Before & Up To That Time ... There Were "Controlled Experiments" (The Original Experiments) Going On !! ... (Sanctioned & Agreed To By: "The Council Of Worlds") ... *Many Beings From Different/Planets & Dimensions ... Lent Their Genetics Experts & Expertise In The Projects ... To Create "Containers" ... Bodily Forms/Shells ... Which Could Withstand The Different Environmental Conditions & Radiations From Space ... That Exist On The Planet Terra/Earth !! ... *It Was These Bodies (Composite Genetics) From These Representative Beings (12 In Number) ... That The Extraterrestrial Energy Essences Wished To Function & Live In !!
Now It Was Not Intentional Mind You ... (And Unforeseen By Those Involved With The "Original Experiments") ... But In Coming To Terra/Earth ... In Search Of "Gold" (& Creating Beings In Which To Mine This Gold) ... They Upset/Disrupted Very Delicate/Precise Ongoing Experiments !! ... In A Controlled Environment/Setting !! ... Which Do To This ... Much Recorded Data Had To Be "Thrown Out/Voided" !! ... Those Involved With These Experiments Were Not Happy !!! ... *Petition For Redress Of Grievances ... On The Complaint That The "Anunnaki" Had Caused Interfered & Caused Damage ... Was Listened To In Council (Of Worlds) Chambers !! ... Both Sides Presented Their Case While The Head Of Council Listened Then Adjourned To Make A Rendering/Verdict !! ... The Decision Reached Was ... Yes The Anunnaki Had Interfered !! ... However This Was Not Malicious In Nature ... As They Did Not Know This Planet Was Under Restriction/Quarantine !! ... *In The Ruling Set Forth ... Henceforth Neither Those From Nibiru Or From Terra/Earth Will Have Contact With One Another !! ... And An "Energy Barrier" Will Be Created To Act As A Deterrent/Warning To This Effect !! ... *There Were Exceptions To This Ruling However !! ... As There Were Some Of The Anunnaki (Who Had Not Greatly Interfered And/Or Who Had Shown Compassion Towards Life On This Planet !!) ... Who Were Given A Choice !! ... To Return Home Or To Stay On This World !! ... *This Is The ET Version (Condensed) Of The Allegorically Told ... "Garden Of Eden" Story !! ... Those Involved With The "Original Experiments" Maintaining A "Controlled Environment" (The Garden) ... And The Snake/Serpent Representing: The Sirians ("Anunnaki") ... Who Accidentally Interfered !!
Quote: "If you will notice, it is this very same group, the "greys" as you call them" which are hotly persuing this agenda, because it is they and those like them who in fact do not have "souls" (spirits). Notice you never hear of "abductions" to this end being perpetrated by the "humanoid" group of "aliens". This is because these types typically have "souls".
If By "Greys" (There Are Many "Grey Colored ET Beings !!) ... You Are Referring To Those Also Known As Zeta Reticulians ... Then Your Information Would Not Be Correct !! ... *The People/One People ("Zetas") Are Master Geneticists ... Who Are Creators Of Life & Lifeforms (Amongst Many Other Services They Provide To Many Many Cosmic Species !!) ... They Are Of The Main Peoples (Of Many Groups, Subgroups, Branches) ... That Temporarily Detain/Borrow ... Those That Have Asked To Volunteer ... In The Many Projects Going On !! ... *The "Detainment Proceedings/Procedures" (Not "Abductio (s)" ... Is Part Of Their Jobs !! ... This Is Part Of What They Do !! ... *The Reason One Does Not Hear Of "Detainment" By Plejarins (Spelling ??) ... Known As Pleiadians Or "Nordics" ("Humanoid Group") ... (Although This Does Happen !!) ... Is That For The Most Part ... They Are Involved With Other Duties & Functions/Responsibilities !! ... *The "Zetas" Like The "Pleiadians" Have "Energy Essences" Contained Within Their Physical Shells/Bodies !! ... It Is Only Their Outer Appearance Which Is Different !!
*ST In BG *(Changed Signature/Address Line)
KerrTexas
Super Moderator
You may be intersted to know that something like that actually is mentioned in the Zohar.
""...before the complete form of the ( current world ) was produced, there were certain primordial worlds created, but these could not subsist, as the equilibrium and balance was not yet perfect, and they were convulsed by the unbalanced forces and destroyed. These primordial worlds are called " kings of ancient time." This important fact, that worlds were created and destroyed prior to the present creation, is again and again reiterated in the Zohar. ""
Some other passages within the Zohar...
""...the first worlds were destroyed like sparks that are extinguished immediately.""
""...Atika of Atikin was constructing worlds and working out corrections for existence.""
""...The secret of this alludes to the supernal worlds and the time before His corrections were maintained; all those kings of Edom died. ""
Some of their spirits do roam the universe and they have been referred to as the "ancient ones" or just "ancients" and a select few can be very potent "entities" that are filled with immense amounts of anger and spite.
trollface
Quantum Scribe
I still don't get what point you're trying to make with your Hebrew example. So some random words and 3 names can be said to add up to the same amount when translated into Hebrew. And there has been sulphur found. Okay. But...what is this supposed to be telling me?
I've already said that I believe that some parts of the Bible are historical documents. That there has been found an ancient city that was seemingly destroyed by sulphur is of no real surprise to me. Sulphur is found, for example, in Volcanoes or in meteorites. Flaming debris from a meteorite destroying a city isn't exactly outside of the realms of concieveable thought. Nor is it inconceivable that a people who witnessed this, yet were superstitious and had little knowledge of astronomy, might see this as a non-natural event - as a punishment for a sin.
Like what?
I said my reasoning with regards to Koresh's legal status with regards to the weapons in his possession, and the events that unfolded during the stand-off/attack. To give an example already given in more detail - the "expert in US law" thing. Here Azkaban is implying that my opinion is invalid because I am not an expert in US law (again, as far as he knows. He doesn't actually know this for a fact, but is assuming). He is also implying that his opinion is more valid than mine, (presumably because he is an expert in US law. If not, then he cannot pretend that his opinion is more valid than mine, by his own reasoning). Now, you'll note that I didn't actually claim to be an expert in US law (this is a classic Strawman, and is very much a "tactic"), however, I did cite statements from eyewitnesses, the police and the FBI. I think we can safely assume that both the FBI and the police have a passing knowledge of the law, can we not? Azkaban has cited nothing. Here he attacks my position about the legality of Koresh's weapons without actually addressing any of the issues, any of the statements from anybody about it, merely by attacking me, creating a Strawman and implying by association that I cannot know what I am talking about. Now how can you say that is not inferior?
The point about Koresh and Jesus being compared is, was and always will be that there are a lot of people who claim to be divinely inspired, or even to be the son of God (Koresh and David Ike were simply the first two to come to mind). Some of them get followers. Some get even more followers. And, if they're very lucky, they'll get enough followers that they found a religion that lasts long after they're dead. Koresh evidently didn't. I don't believe Ike will. I beleive that the Rev. Moon has, though. That's what I'm saying.
I've already said that I believe that some parts of the Bible are historical documents. That there has been found an ancient city that was seemingly destroyed by sulphur is of no real surprise to me. Sulphur is found, for example, in Volcanoes or in meteorites. Flaming debris from a meteorite destroying a city isn't exactly outside of the realms of concieveable thought. Nor is it inconceivable that a people who witnessed this, yet were superstitious and had little knowledge of astronomy, might see this as a non-natural event - as a punishment for a sin.
Like what?
I said my reasoning with regards to Koresh's legal status with regards to the weapons in his possession, and the events that unfolded during the stand-off/attack. To give an example already given in more detail - the "expert in US law" thing. Here Azkaban is implying that my opinion is invalid because I am not an expert in US law (again, as far as he knows. He doesn't actually know this for a fact, but is assuming). He is also implying that his opinion is more valid than mine, (presumably because he is an expert in US law. If not, then he cannot pretend that his opinion is more valid than mine, by his own reasoning). Now, you'll note that I didn't actually claim to be an expert in US law (this is a classic Strawman, and is very much a "tactic"), however, I did cite statements from eyewitnesses, the police and the FBI. I think we can safely assume that both the FBI and the police have a passing knowledge of the law, can we not? Azkaban has cited nothing. Here he attacks my position about the legality of Koresh's weapons without actually addressing any of the issues, any of the statements from anybody about it, merely by attacking me, creating a Strawman and implying by association that I cannot know what I am talking about. Now how can you say that is not inferior?
The point about Koresh and Jesus being compared is, was and always will be that there are a lot of people who claim to be divinely inspired, or even to be the son of God (Koresh and David Ike were simply the first two to come to mind). Some of them get followers. Some get even more followers. And, if they're very lucky, they'll get enough followers that they found a religion that lasts long after they're dead. Koresh evidently didn't. I don't believe Ike will. I beleive that the Rev. Moon has, though. That's what I'm saying.
trollface
Quantum Scribe
"Unless the point was to make me laugh, then,no, I mised it. Perhaps you could explain it to me?"
As you have claimed your reasoning to be superior to mine, I fail to see how someone of my intellect could ever explain anything to someone at your level. Shouldn't you already know?
"Okay, how about this little gem? I didn't have to search very hard."
If this is your perception of mocking, then the way you treat people needs a stronger term.
"So, you didn't read the link, then?"
I read enough to know it is biased to one side, just as other websites present information biased to the other side. I would also like you answer this question I asked of you: "Are you also claiming Koresh broke no laws?"
"Sorry, what have I agreed to? I don't think I have agreed with you. Can you point out to me where I did?"
That would be inherent to this statement you made: "I don't think that I have ever said that the two were exactly the same."
You cannot escape the fact that Koresh did not allow the women and children of his followers to leave to safety once the standoff began. Had he been a responsible figure, as Christ was, he would have only sacrificed himself. As much as you twist your argument, this has been and always will be the fundamental difference between these two men.
As you have claimed your reasoning to be superior to mine, I fail to see how someone of my intellect could ever explain anything to someone at your level. Shouldn't you already know?
"Okay, how about this little gem? I didn't have to search very hard."
If this is your perception of mocking, then the way you treat people needs a stronger term.
"So, you didn't read the link, then?"
I read enough to know it is biased to one side, just as other websites present information biased to the other side. I would also like you answer this question I asked of you: "Are you also claiming Koresh broke no laws?"
"Sorry, what have I agreed to? I don't think I have agreed with you. Can you point out to me where I did?"
That would be inherent to this statement you made: "I don't think that I have ever said that the two were exactly the same."
You cannot escape the fact that Koresh did not allow the women and children of his followers to leave to safety once the standoff began. Had he been a responsible figure, as Christ was, he would have only sacrificed himself. As much as you twist your argument, this has been and always will be the fundamental difference between these two men.
trollface
Quantum Scribe
I have claimed that in one instance my reasoning has been better than yours. Please do not put words in my mouth.
I would like to know why mocking is EVER appropriate.
Please explain the purpose of your "trap".
Perhaps to you, but certainly not to everyone. And definitely not to me.
Did you miss the part where I said that the site is biased against my personal views? Did you also miss the extensive citing? If you don't want to believe the site, then fine, go check the sources. Are you questioning the veracity of FBI reports, court reports and the like? Care to provide some refuting evidence that is as well backed up?
I am claiming that Koresh had no criminal record and that the FBI and the BATM had nothing concrete to suggest that any law was being broken. I am claiming that the local police had investigated the charges that the FBI were levying against Koresh and found nothing out of order. I am claiming that the investigations after the seige revealed no evidence of wrongdoing with regards to the charges. I am claiming that the sources of the FBI's suspicions have had quite a bit of doubt cast on their motives.
I am not claiing to know what Koresh did 24/7 for all of his life, no.
Well, seeing as I was the one who initially made the statement, that would be you agreeing with me, technically. If you've misionterpreted my statement as meaning that I thought that Koresh and Jesus were exactly the same in every single detail imaginable, then you missed what I was saying. Either I wasn't clear enough, or you misread what I did say. No, I don't think they are exactly the same, nor do I think Koresh and Jesus are the same as David Ike and nor do I think that those 3 are exactly the same as Rev. Moon. But I do think that there are valid comparisons to be drawn between the 4. I hope that that is now clear for you.
According to FBI records, none of the followers wanted to leave the compound. Even so, during the course of the seige, several children were sent out.
If you do not believe the FBI's version of events, then where are you getting your information from?
I have twisted nothing. Read through my posts and you'll see that I've stuck to the same points from the off. My claims have not changed one iota. You are the man who uses Strawmen. There's one right at the beginning of this post.
"Please do not put words in my mouth."
You mean like you do?
"Please explain the purpose of your "trap"."
I believe the purpose was satisfactorially explained to you. There is no point in repeating the explanation, especially if you do not yet accept it.
"Care to provide some refuting evidence that is as well backed up?"
How about the words of his child victims?
http://www.abcnews.go.com/sections/primetime/US/pt_waco030415.html
"I am not claiing to know what Koresh did 24/7 for all of his life, no."
We could start with child endangerment. And child abuse and statutory rape might not be out of the question.
"Even so, during the course of the seige, several children were sent out."
And many were not, who eventually perished. This evidence, which you cannot refute, speaks specifically to my point about the primary difference between Christ and Koresh. A point which you seem to not wish to address, and instead discuss other, less well founded evidence.
As to your evidence, I will simply use your own argument: They are words, which are symbols, and have no inherent meaning. There is only the meaning that we ascribe to them as a result of our beliefs. Believe what you will, and what it is founded upon. But it might be productive for you to stop trying to make others wrong while waving the banner of your beliefs. You never make them wrong, and you only make yourself look arrogant. Beliefs are wonderful things, until they are used as weapons.
You mean like you do?
"Please explain the purpose of your "trap"."
I believe the purpose was satisfactorially explained to you. There is no point in repeating the explanation, especially if you do not yet accept it.
"Care to provide some refuting evidence that is as well backed up?"
How about the words of his child victims?
http://www.abcnews.go.com/sections/primetime/US/pt_waco030415.html
"I am not claiing to know what Koresh did 24/7 for all of his life, no."
We could start with child endangerment. And child abuse and statutory rape might not be out of the question.
"Even so, during the course of the seige, several children were sent out."
And many were not, who eventually perished. This evidence, which you cannot refute, speaks specifically to my point about the primary difference between Christ and Koresh. A point which you seem to not wish to address, and instead discuss other, less well founded evidence.
As to your evidence, I will simply use your own argument: They are words, which are symbols, and have no inherent meaning. There is only the meaning that we ascribe to them as a result of our beliefs. Believe what you will, and what it is founded upon. But it might be productive for you to stop trying to make others wrong while waving the banner of your beliefs. You never make them wrong, and you only make yourself look arrogant. Beliefs are wonderful things, until they are used as weapons.
trollface
Quantum Scribe
Yes. I do put words in my mouth. That's why I ask you not to.
At no point have you explained the purpose of this "trap". I've had the usual babble from Rainman but, as you were the instigator of this masterpiece of debate, I'd like to know your reasoning. I dunno, if you give a good enough explaination, I might even see some form of logic or reason there. I wouldn't bet the bank on it, though.
I don't see anything there that refutes that the FBI and BATM had no evidence of illegal possession of arms, nor that the FBI and BATM were mainly or at least partically responsible for the massacre. Can you quote the relevent parts for me?
Did Koresh have a conviction for any of these things? Then my statement that he had no criminal record stands. Did the FBI and/or BATM have concrete evidence of these things? Was that even what they were investigating? Then my statement that they had nothing concrete to suggest of the law being broken stands. Were these the charges that were being levvied against Koresh? Was he being served for the illegal possession of firearms? Had the local police investigated him for the illegal possession of firearms and concluded that he had none? Then my statement that the local police had investigated the charges that the FBI were levvying against Koresh and found no evidence of wrongdoing stands. Did the investigations by the FBI after the seige reveal evidence of wrongdoing with regards to the charges? Then my statement that thre was no evidence found after the seige of wrongdoing with regards to the charges stands. Have the sources of the FBI's suspicions since had serious doubts cast on their motives? Then my statement that the sources of the FBI's suspicions have had serious doubts cast upon their motives stands.
Really, Azkaban, can you argue at all without Strawmen? Please, please limit yourself to arguing against things that I actually do say and believe, not things that I don't.
I am not claiming that life inside the compound was happy and fun, necessarily. I am not even claiming that it is impossible or even improbable that Koresh was a child abuser. I'm not even claiming that he was necessarily a nice man at all. I am saying that according to the FBI's own testimony to the courts that the whole "child abuse" allegations stemmed from one off-hand comment made at one meeting by one FBI member whose identity nobody can remember. I am claiming that Attourney General Janet Reno (who approved the FBI action) has officially stated that she believes that she could well have been mistaken about what she heard with regards to child abuse and that there was no evidence of child abuse. I am saying that the FBI has stated categorically that there was no evidence of child abuse either before or after the raid. I am saying that Koresh had been investigated for child abuse beforehand, when he co-operated fully and was fully absolved of all allegations. I am saying that the children who came out during the seige were examined and interviewed by the chief of psychiatray at Texas Children's Hospital, and he concluded that they had been beaten, but not enough to constitute abuse of any sort. I am saying that he also said that there was no evidence of sexual abuse whatsoever. I am saying that the children were also examined by the Texas Department of Children's Protective Services who also found no evidence of abuse. I am saying that both these sources also specifically commented that the children seemed to be very well-adjusted and mentally and socially healthy.
Do you deny any of these facts? Were you aware of these facts?
FWIW, I believe that Koresh most probably was an abuser of children. He fits the profile, and I think there is enough circumstantial evidence to back it up. But that's why I have never claimed that Koresh was not a child abuser.
I have said repeatedly that my belief in where the blame lies in this instance does not sit well with me. but I have to deal with the facts from as many legitimate sources as I can. And they tell me what they tell me, and from that I form my beliefs.
And that is why you should stick to addressing the points I do make, rather than the ones that I don't. All using Strawmen does is undermine your own arguments, if because of nothing else, then because I am not stupid enough, nor a bad enough debator to fall for such a novice tactic.
Those that were sent out (again, according to the Texas Children's hospital and Texas Department of Children's Protective Services official records and statements) only stated a desire to go back and rejoin their families. And, for example, Koresh asked to talk with Robert Rodriguez (no, not that one, the one who had been an agent pretending to be a student watching Koresh and who had become a close friend (and almost follower) of Koresh's in that time) and said that he would send out a six-year old girl in exchange. The FBI refused. The girl died.
It's a point I have clearly and explicity addressed more than once. From the very post you are replying to: "Either I wasn't clear enough, or you misread what I did say. No, I don't think they are exactly the same, nor do I think Koresh and Jesus are the same as David Ike and nor do I think that those 3 are exactly the same as Rev. Moon. But I do think that there are valid comparisons to be drawn between the 4. I hope that that is now clear for you."
I really do hope that that's now clear for you, as I'm getting tired of repeating it, and I'm not sure how many more ways I can paraphrase it.
What less well-founded evidence is this? Do you mean the tonnes of cites of official statements, official records, court documents and the like I've supplied? And if we're talking about "well-founded evidence", need I remind you that you have provided precisely zero evidence for your side of the argument? How can the extensive evidence that I have provided be less well-founded than the nothing that you have provided? The link above doesn't count because it simply doesn't address anything that I've said or believe at all.
Wow, did you ever miss the point of that little conversation.
That's not what I said. It is, in fact, only partially right.
I am not trying to make others wrong. I am merely espousing my beliefs, and explaining the basis for them.
You are one of those who claim to know "THE truth". I claim to present my opinion. I have stated my opinion that the FBI and the BATM were the people who were mainly responsible for the situation at Waco occorruing the way it did, as opposed to being a peaceful investigation. You have been trying to prove me wrong. I have stated my belief that there are some valid comparisons to be drawn between Koresh and Jesus. You, again, have been trying to prove this belief of mine wrong.
How is this me trying to make others wrong? You have been trying to disprove my beliefs.
trollface
Quantum Scribe
Something's just occured to me. Your point abour Koresh possibly haveing broken the law of America is actually even more fruitless than I had previously thought. After all, it's not as if Jesus obeyed the law. He spoke to women in public, he ate without washing his hands, healed on the Sabbath, he disrupted a temple...he was not a law-abiding citizen. So if, as you contend, Koresh was obeying what he considered to be the true laws of God, rather than the laws dictated by the land in which he lived...well, that'd be another similarity between the two.
KerrTexas
Super Moderator
The formation of the Hebrew Letters contain more than just an indiction of a simple word. there are mathematical meanings, and symbological meanings within them. To stop you before you state that symbols inherently dont have any meaning of significance, it was placed into the writings by the authors. Certainly, a quick splash of ink on paper may not mean anything, but if consciuosly created and used to convey a message, then it does have meaning. The hebrew Letters are based on esoteric understandings.
When studied in depth, many meanings can be authored into a mere sentence constructed with the Letters.
The example I posted is one such structure. The three men were identified in other texts, and it is an interesting correlation that if you compare their names to the statement that they match. It has nothing to do with English. It is when they are in there Hebrew format that the formula works.
I think that you know the answer to this question. You are certainly capable of understanding the difference between Koresh and Jesus. I can see the reasons for defending yourself with Azkaban, but dont sink to an inane level by dismissing the obvious. There is controversy surrounding the Waco event. If you use the Ruby Ridge affair as an example, it is a demonstration of acting without understanding the dynamics of whom you are trying to "arrest".
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