God? Part 2

The painting called Blue Boy is a very famous piece of Art and was done in 1770. The painting has a very interesting history and had a suprise hidden within it.
As you did notice there is some discolouration in the portrait. I noticed the same thing long ago, and then they eventually had the painting removed and x-rayed.
Sure enough there is another portrait underneath Blue Boy. This had not been known for centuries, until it was examined by modern methods.
They could see a bearded face above Blue Boys Head. And there is a dog that was changed to a patch of weeds. Knowing this you can make out the dog, and in the museum you can see the form of the man.
To this day they dont know who the man was and why the painter decided to paint over him.

The point of this exercise was that sometimes things are beyond what your senses are telling you. You can see Blue Boy easy enough, but without further investigation, you completely miss what may be hidden underneath.
The painter had done something with that painting and only by astute observation and an understanding of the artists work, did it result in the museum curators taking a closer look at the painting of Blue Boy.
The same can be applied to the use of the Hebrew alphabet. The letters can be utilized by the author in numerous ways. The author obviously knows what he placed into his creation, but centuries later, the full meaning of what the author had written may have faded away. By understanding the various methods of the alphabet that has been used by others, the same process can be applied to the "selected" text.
The purpose is to discover what may be hidden underneath the surface of what you are looking at.
You saw a picture of The Blue Boy, but did not know the style or habits of the painter. The chances of sensing something was different was remote. But indeed, just because you didnt see it, didnt mean it wasnt there.
It does make for an interesting mystery and it is quite fun to suddenly see something emerge that may have been hidden for generations.
 
Yes, they fight in the name of Jesus, saying they are fighting for their religion. It's Protestants vs. Catholics.

You know it is much more complicated then what you are making the fighting in Ireland to be. And no they are not using the name of Jesus in their fight. "Die in the name of Jesus!"..."No, You die in the name of Jesus!". Come on, really now! It may be two different faiths at each others throat, but God isnt the major reason why they are at war.
 
The point of this exercise was that sometimes things are beyond what your senses are telling you.

It's a good analogy, and I still get what you're saying. This is not a point that I have questioned. However, a good analogy proves nothing. Just because you can say that it's analogous doesn't mean that it is.

You know it is much more complicated then what you are making the fighting in Ireland to be.

Of course. I don't think that any wars are simple. I mean, we can describe the Inquisition as Christians torturing and killing heretics (and that is how it is most often described) but the situation arose out of complex political, societal and religious factors.

I'm not claiming that there's not more to it, but when you boil the situation in Northern Ireland down to it's most basic it is Catholics trying to kill Protestants and Protestants trying to kill Catholics.

And no they are not using the name of Jesus in their fight.

I ask you to consider the Rev. Iain Paisley. He's hardly unique, although he is the best known. Yes, those who are fighting do believe that they are fighting for their God.

Here is the Sinn Feinn oath (although I acknolwedge that this is most likely nothing but propaganda, it being ultimately sourced from a Unionist source, the fact of how important God is is still significant) http://www.nccg.org/288Art-SinnFein.html :

"I swear by Almighty God, by all Heaven, by the Holy and Blessed Prayer Book, of the Roman Catholic Church, by the Holy Virgin Mary Mother of God, by her bitter tears and wailings, by St.Patrick, our Blessed and adorable Host, the Rosary, to fight until we die wading in the field of Red Gore of the Saxon tyrants and murderers of our glorious nationality, if spared, to fight until not a single trace is left to tell that the Holy Soil of Ireland were trodden by these Heretics. Also these Protestant robbers and Brutes, these unbelievers of our Faith, will be driven like the swine they are into the sea, by fire, the knife or by Poison Cup until we of the Catholic Faith and avowed supporters of the Sinn Fein Action and Principles, clear these Heretics from our Lands.

"Age is not to be considered in our Blessed Deeds of extermination of Brutes who in the Past Ages robbed many of our Blessed Churches. We must shed streams of Blood of these tyrants to again claim our Holy places. Report to our Blessed Priests regularly upon all works and business transaction of any kind.

"At any cost we must work in secret, using any method of Deception to gain our ends, towards the destruction of all Protestants and the advance of the Priesthood and the Catholic Faith until the Pope is complete ruler of the whole World.

"Our beloved Ireland has been held in chains by these cursed foreign Tyrants for ages, now we can see the end of their Power.

"We must strike at every opportunity using all methods of causing ill-feeling within the Protestant Ranks, and in their Business. The employment of any means will be Blessed by our earthly Fathers the Priests, thrice Blessed by His Holiness the Pope.

"Scotland must also be swept clean of their accursed beliefs by the extirmination of all Masonic and all such bodies, as do not accept our Creed must Perish, as before the days of the accursed Reformation.

"So shall we of the Roman Catholic Church and Faith destroy with smiles and Thanksgiving to our Holy Father the Pope all who reject our beliefs. So help me God."

Sinn Fein/ the IRA (and you're kidding yourself if you do not believe the two are intimately linked) seem to be less forthcoming. However, the "qualities of an Orangeman", as told by the Unionists is as follows http://www.blearycrimsonstarlol12.org.uk/Qualifications%20of%20an%20Orangeman.htm :

An Orangeman should have sincere love and veneration for his Heavenly Father ; a humble and steadfast faith in Jesus Christ, the Saviour of mankind, believing in him as the only mediator between God and man.He should cultivate truth and justice, brotherly kindness and charity, devotion and piety, concord and unity , and obedience to the laws; his deportment should seek the society of the virtuous, and avoid that of the evil; he should honour and diligently study the Holy Scriptures, and make them the rule of his faith and practice ; he should love , uphold and defend the Protestant religion, and sincerely desire and endeavour to propagate its doctrines and precepts; he should strenuously oppose the fatal errors and doctrines of the Church of Rome, and scrupulously avoid countenancing (by his presence or otherwise) any act or ceremony of Popish worship, he should by all lawful means, resist the ascendency of that Church , its encroachments, and the extension of its power, ever abstaining from all uncharitable words , actions or sentiments, towards his Roman Catholic brethren ; he should remember to keep holy the Sabbath Day and attend the public worship of God, and diligently train up his offspring, and all under his control, in the fear of God, and in the Protestant faith ; he should never take the name of God in vain, but abstain from all cursing and profane language, and use every opportunity of discouraging these, and all other sinful practices, in others; his conduct should be guided by wisdom and prudence, and marked by honesty, temperance and sobriety; the glory of God and the welfare of man , the honour of his Sovereign, and the good of his country, should be the motive of his actions.

Again, you'll note the promonance of God.

I mean, you're right that there are political factors - the Orangemen want the British out of Northern Ireland, and Sinn Fein/The IRA want to remain British. But, again, it's more complex than that. If the political issues were what it was really about, then why are the lines drawn so strictly between Catholics and Protestants? Can it really be only Protestants who support the British, and count themselves as such? Can it really be only Catholics who wish for independance foir Northern Irealand?

I think, when it boils down to it, that the war is neither political nor religious in nature (and the same is true of most wars), rather is born from generations of people on diametrically opposed sides being told that "we" are right and good and "they" are wrong and evil. However, you cannot deny the huge part that religion plays. Yes, people really are going out there and blowing up babies in the name of Jesus, doing it "for" Jesus. In fact, i'd say that religion is one of the few things that would convince a man that blowing up a baby was not only justified, but ultimately an act for good.

It's horrible. It's reprehensible. It's counter-intuitive, even. But it's also, unfortunately, true.
 
"I've mocked people's reasoning, sure. Not their religious beliefs."

So is this your answer to my question? I just want to make sure before I comment.

"That's not the version of events I've seen reported."

Many of his people died with him, and he did nothing to save them, unlike Christ. You did not answer the question I had asked you. Did you plan to?
 
However, a good analogy proves nothing. Just because you can say that it's analogous doesn't mean that it is.

That analogy did prove something. It proved that some things lie beneath the surface. Just because you cant see it, did not mean it wasnt there.

Of course. I don't think that any wars are simple. I mean, we can describe the Inquisition as Christians torturing and killing heretics (and that is how it is most often described) but the situation arose out of complex political, societal and religious factors.


Religion was certainly used as quise for their actions, but the actual reasons were not Religious at all. It was a quest for political power and wealth. Once again ,there is more to it than meets the eye.


To respond to what you posted regarding the Irish fight; I never read that before and it is sad that they are participating in battle under that flag. It would be interesting to study the actual dynamics of the whole situation. I am sure that there are those who participate as a passage of rights ( boys to men ), Self-confidence issues, monetary issues, heritage, and of course the extremists.

As far as the IRA, I thought they didnt want the British in Ireland, and this is why they bomb British targets. And this has been mentioned on more than one occasion by my family members.

Yes, people really are going out there and blowing up babies in the name of Jesus, doing it "for" Jesus. In fact, i'd say that religion is one of the few things that would convince a man that blowing up a baby was not only justified, but ultimately an act for good.

I do know that there are Christian militants in the Middle East, and have seen footage of them with engravings on their guns of Jesus and the Cross. I compeletly agree with you that anybody that uses any platform of God for violence is "horrible. It's reprehensible. It's counter-intuitive, even. But it's also, unfortunately, true."
 
Hi I'm back today. I'm pretty much fatigued now as I only had only 4 hours of sleep and I did not come home last night.

What's going on here? A minute ago I just saw four pages on this topic and it seems that one page has gone missing?
 
well, lets jus say u need a rest.

if u obey God's saying, u should not be here. This forum is the TREE OF KNOWLEDGE- Knowledge of Time Travel. by simply reading this line, u will surely die someday in the future... spooky, huh ?

jus my humble opinion that science and bible dun match since the beginning.

NOT A TIME TRAVELER
 
well, lets jus say u need a rest.

if u obey God's saying, u should not be here. This forum is the TREE OF KNOWLEDGE- Knowledge of Time Travel. by simply reading this line, u will surely die someday in the future... spooky, huh ?

jus my humble opinion that science and bible dun match since the beginning.

NOT A TIME TRAVELER

Why shouldn't I be here? I am here to answer questions and to ask questions, to fufill my quest for answers to know what I do not know. I am here to learn. What makes you think the Bible and science doesn't match? From my guess, you are not widely read in what people have to say about this matter.
 
wooooo, i sense something burning..

yes, u r so rite that i m not widely read. that is the reason why i stay in huge mansion in one of the most espensive cities in the world. maybe u should quit school like me?


heh, how can u go far in ur quest for knowledge if u blow up so easily?
kekekekek

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wooooo, i sense something burning..

yes, u r so rite that i m not widely read. that is the reason why i stay in huge mansion in one of the most espensive cities in the world. maybe u should quit school like me?


heh, how can u go far in ur quest for knowledge if u blow up so easily?
kekekekek

Before you would actually like to reply, please master some basic grammar and spelling before trying to cough up a debate. It doesn't matter if you are rich or not. Knowledge is certainly richer than money itself. Besides physcial finances do not always last forever. No, I wouldn't like to quit school like you. I do not want to waste my life on nothing.

What makes you think I'm burning? Those are just words and not speech that convey my thoughts. Honestly, I do not feel anything burning up when I typed my last reply.

and how do they match ? may i know ? name jus one incident from the bible and impress me.

kekekekekek

How about the Great Flood?
 
and how do they match ? may i know ? name jus one incident from the bible and impress me

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

In the time period this was written, the Earth was viewed as the center of everything. Why didnt it read God created the earth and heaven?

And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

www.solarviews.com

Watch the little movie. You can find it under this section ---> Formation of the Solar System


Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creatures that hath life...

Hmmm...this seems familiar, wonder where I have seen that concept before?
 
yes, u r so rite that i m not widely read. that is the reason why i stay in huge mansion in one of the most espensive cities in the world. maybe u should quit school like me?

Staying in a huge mansion is different than owning a huge mansion. If you stayed in school, then you may have been able to quote that you own a huge mansion in one of the most expensive cities of the world.
 
Before you would actually like to reply, please master some basic grammar and spelling before trying to cough up a debate.

Like I said, I did not finish high school, so what standard of English are you expecting ? My grandparents who own the mansion engaged several private tutors so that I could finish my college at home in their mansion. Now I see their rationale since the world has become a jungle populated with stubborn organisms like you.

It doesn't matter if you are rich or not. Knowledge is certainly richer than money itself.

It does not matter ? Sure, tell that to NASA or any other research organisations. Tell them to get rid of the rich investors and continue running the projects. Have you ever wondered what happened to past science projects like invention of the light bulb became today ? They become global organisations like GE and Boeings making monies. Sure, it does not matter. It does not matter to beings living in alternate reality.

How about the Great Flood?

The way the bibles were written? Anyone could interpret it in ways that appear to fulfill actual events.


I do not want to waste my life on nothing.

Talk about good grammar. It is " I do not want to waste my life on anything..... " . Your sentence is not only fragmented, it is a poor attempt to sound like the characters in the American sitcom.

No, I wouldn't like to quit school like you.

Yes you should not because in my humble opinion you need the education.



"Gather knowledge with a humble mind, Seek knowledge with a bold heart.". How about that? Original sayings from one who drop out of high school ?

Wow, it is really hard trying to imitate good English.

KEKEKEKEKEKE (<- Oh, this is a despicable sniggering sound designed to show self-importance)

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Not a Time TRAVELER
 
Like I said, I did not finish high school, so what standard of English are you expecting ? My grandparents who own the mansion engaged several private tutors so that I could finish my college at home in their mansion. Now I see their rationale since the world has become a jungle populated with stubborn organisms like you.

Well, what can I say? The world is nothing more than a heap of stuck up organisms like you. Just because you think you are rich and living a huge mansion doesn't mean you can just push people around and say "Hey, you are stubborn but I am rich"

does not matter ? Sure, tell that to NASA or any other research organisations. Tell them to get rid of the rich investors and continue running the projects. Have you ever wondered what happened to past science projects like invention of the light bulb became today ? They become global organisations like GE and Boeings making monies. Sure, it does not matter. It does not matter to beings living in alternate reality.

In the case of research, it is obvious that finances apply in all aspects for development. Who doesn't know that? Do not take me for a fool, I simply mean that having knowledge is better than having all the riches in the world. You don't have to be rich to be smart you know. Being smart also means being hard-working. Now let's view on the world wasting money on research. The simply study of Einstein which didn't require much money except several notepads and pencils, now cost the US billions of dollars and for what? To stock up on senseless warheads to nuke anyone if the need comes. Now isn't that sweet, when the money could actually go to transporting food for the starving people?

The way the bibles were written? Anyone could interpret it in ways that appear to fulfill actual events.

Actually, it is quite obvious what it is interpreting. So tell me, decipher the part of the Great Flood and tell me what it means then. There are several experts in the world who do that, unless you are saying that they are lying which would of cause lead to a huge conspiracy. Things can be explained factually and not just brought down because you say it is so.

Talk about good grammar. It is " I do not want to waste my life on anything..... " . Your sentence is not only fragmented, it is a poor attempt to sound like the characters in the American movies.

I do not see what is wrong with that sentence.

Nothing = not any thing
Anything = any thing whatever

I stated nothing. It meant I do not want to waste my life on not doing any thing.
So anyway let me point out your grammatical errors.

[...] past science projects like THE invention of the light bulb became today ?

The way the Bible were written?

Original sayings from someone who has dropped out of high school ?

"Gather knowledge with a humble mind, Seek knowledge with a bold heart.". How about that? Original sayings from one who drop out of high school ?

*Anyway I must remind you I come from a country that speaks several languages like chinese, malay, tamil and several dialects like hokkien, cantonese, teochew, hakka etc. So as Singaporeans, I shamefully admit my spoken english is a mix of chinese, malay and english which is what we Singaporeans are well known for, Singlish. Although everyone has a compulsory basic education of 6 years, I am currently in secondary 4 and our first language here is English. Also, my second language is Chinese and I am a Chinese by blood and obviously, in my avatar this is so. However, (Another shameful truth) I am rather poor in my second language and better in my first.

Wow, it is really hard trying to imitate good English.

You do know that this is the internet. So actually, you might be someone else in reality. You may not be a dropout although you may be living in a huge mansion. The different styles of your writing indicate you have already mastered basic grammar except you are too lazy to imply it in writing, hence the incorrgible short form internet writing. Yes, you cannot fool me just like that.
 
I'm not using God's name in vain, but as a christian I deem fit to answer your explanations. Apparently, God has really no business in science and human arguements. In the bible, it states that all who believe and have faith in him would go to heaven. It means a freedom of choice, it's up to you to choose at all. What he does we cannot explain, we may never find out. Such things are incomprehensible by human standards. Since we do not grasp a full understand of the universe or god, we cannot say and proclaim as we deem fit. Yes, I make mistakes. We all believe what we have faith in, no one is right or wrong until the end. So by saying that, I'm trying to tell you that no one can be sure that we are 100% right or jus purely wrong.


Yes gentlemen and ladies, that is what nicknack said in another topic in this forum.
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ok ok. be frank with you. i just want you to be God's children and not be polluted by the world's evil theories. i see your innocent soul and intelligence too engrossed in useless debates in this forum and do not want your pure mind to be tarnished by the evil liars of our time. take heed, this is the time of the end..

as a matter of fact, i have a doctorate degree through private tuitions- yes you heard it rite. heheheh

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Apparently yes I did say all that. Only I mentioned that God has no business with science or our meaningless debates. Simply because 1) He created science. But there are people who study science from the Bible, it is possible to quote from the Bible to study science. But then again, it is wrong for someone to do that. There was a verse from the Bible that said that. I forgot where.

Nah. I'm just being very bored here. I study Bible prophecy for fun and I'm trying to tell people that there is a New Age conspiracy which no one hardly believes. I agree most of the arguements here are useless as they lead to no where, but hey I'm only sixteen! Woots!
 
I'm trying to tell people that there is a New Age conspiracy which no one hardly believes. I agree most of the arguements here are useless as they lead to no where, but hey I'm only sixteen! Woots!

Then present the facts as you see them indicating there is such a conspiracy. Also, you have the opportunity to learn from any experience. There may not be a resolution to presented concepts, however...
1. You gain experience at debating.
2. You are speaking with people all over the globe and brining us all a little closer
3. It is interesting to know what the different opinions are from a wide perspective.
4. You are challenged in your concepts to either re-think them or find more support for them.
5. You will be provided information otherwise missed.
6. Learn how to type faster.

Plus many more reasons to participate in what may appear to be useless arguements.
At least you are stepping up to the plate and taking a swing. Thats more than alot of people do, so kudos to you my friend.
 
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