Agreeing on Space-Time, not just Time!

ruthless,

what exactly are the 9 dimensions?

In my theory, it is really quite simple (and also highly symmetrical). We are aware of the 3 dimensions of the fundamental measure we call SPACE, right? Let's call those dimensions X, Y, and Z.

We are also aware that, according to our current model of the atom, all atoms are comprised of three "dimensions" of mass: Electron, Proton, Neutron. Right? So far, we are up to 6 dimensions (each fundamental measure...MASS and SPACE... have 3 subdimensions).

This leave us to ask the question of how would the fundamental measure of TIME be subdivided into "orthogonal dimensions"? It would seem to me that this would be: Past, Present, Future.

Nine dimensions... that form a 3x3 matrix.

where does decay fit into all of this?

Decay (at least radioactive decay) is the time rate of change of the mass of a radioactive body. In the development of my theory I maintain a fundamental distinction between MASS and MATTER. MASS is the (incorrect) view that an object is static and unchanging. We know this is incorrect because all matter vibrates. What I call MATTER I define as "the time rate of change of MASS". In much the same way that we define velocity (motion) as "the time rate of change of position (distance...SPACE)." So when I talk about TIME being derived from MATTER in MOTION, I am saying that any solid object (your body, for instance) is NEVER static, and is ALWAYS changing. IOW, it is made of MATTER, not MASS.

lets say that all the vibrations in the universe stop, does this mean time itself has stopped?

If this happened, the entire universe would be at absolute zero temperature. It is theorized that all motion would stop (certainly all internal motion would stop, because this is the definition of absolute zero). Since TIME is measured via MATTER in MOTION, and if all MOTION were to stop, then how would one measure TIME? If all vibration stopped, we could certainly say that all sentient life that we know of would cease, and hence without an observer to note the passage of TIME, would TIME as we know it still exist? Likely not.

and if so, does this mean space ceases to exist?

Space already does not "exist" as a separate thing. That is what the original post in this thread was trying to lay out. It is erroneous (but still useful to human comprehension) to talk about SPACE without talking about TIME. The "reality" is that SPACE-TIME is an integrated manifold.

another question, does an atom expand? better yet, can it?

Without changing its atomic number (i.e. without losing/gaining electrons)? Good question though, but I do not believe we have any evidence that says an atom can "expand". But a group of atoms can change their vibrations...and that changes chemical properties.

could our universe be looked at as an atom is looked at?

According to current physics, no. There is a fundamental difference in physics as the micro (atomic) and macro (galactic & beyond) levels. This is precisely the problem that science is having in trying to "unify" Relativity and Quantum Mechanics. Relativity accurately (as accurate as anything we know) describes macroscopic motion of objects on a cosmic scale. However, QM accurately (statistically) describes motion on the atomic (and below) scale.

As always, you ask good questions ruthless!!
RMT
 
And let me continue to point out that, rather than discuss technical issues and answer the questions I put before Einstein, he chooses to continue the polemics. Which is why I throw the polemics right back at him.

To continue to highlight to others your Modus Operandus, I will again point out the question of mine that you continue to dodge:

<font color="red"> IOW, I am asking if we can use this as a baseline, at least, to agree that Space and Time are actually intertwined...and it is an "error of approximation" to discuss them separately. This is, indeed, what relativity says, yes? [/COLOR]

Not only that, but he has also totally ignored that I have falsified his idea that mass is completely devoid of time. Care to even try to support this theory of yours, Einstein?

You think you are making me "look bad" Einstein... but I would suggest you are doing more damage to yourself by not engaging in the technical discussions, as are the other folks.
RMT
 
This leave us to ask the question of how would the fundamental measure of TIME be subdivided into "orthogonal dimensions"? It would seem to me that this would be: Past, Present, Future.

Nine dimensions... that form a 3x3 matrix.

So you in fact are vectoring time....

250px-World_line.svg.png


which surprising looks like only one side of the cone here:


300px-CMB_Timeline75.jpg


I would need a better description of orthogonal dimensions the one in wiki is too complicated for me.

So when I talk about TIME being derived from MATTER in MOTION, I am saying that any solid object (your body, for instance) is NEVER static, and is ALWAYS changing. IOW, it is made of MATTER, not MASS.

In reply to:
lets say that all the vibrations in the universe stop, does this mean time itself has stopped?



If this happened, the entire universe would be at absolute zero temperature. It is theorized that all motion would stop (certainly all internal motion would stop, because this is the definition of absolute zero). Since TIME is measured via MATTER in MOTION, and if all MOTION were to stop, then how would one measure TIME?

Yes , But the real point is if everything APPEARED to stop, how fast would you be going.
That was really my point in the first place, that Einstein had labled c squared as the fastest rate of change possible, That is our standard of measurement. Which brings in the expansion theory, Is expansion truly our reference for our "Present" Space_Time?

You could give Space_Time a quantifiable quantity in effect its own mass. Which is why I referred to it as pressure. I see the capacity to vector time backwards but I cannot wrap my mind around "HAVING" a negative vector- In effect a Negative time pressure. What would you even Name that?

This is for you ruthless(Just to be funny).

http://youtube.com/watch?v=OUkEu6YYR3s


Edit:

I also added this because watching it weirds me out:

Lorentz_transform_of_world_line.gif


Lorenz Transform of worldline:

Views of spacetime along the world line of a rapidly accelerating observer in a relativistic universe. The events ("dots") that pass the two diagonal lines in the bottom half of the image (the past light cone of the observer in the origin) are the events visible to the observer.
 
timegraphic.jpg


We all feel time passing in our bones, but ever since Galileo and Newton in the 17th century began using time as a coordinate to help chart the motion of cannonballs, time - for physicists - has simply been an "addendum in the address of an event," Dr. Albert said.

"There is a feeling in philosophy," he said, "that this picture leaves no room for locutions about flow and the passage of time we experience."

Then there is what physicists call "the arrow of time" problem. The fundamental laws of physics don't care what direction time goes, he pointed out. Run a movie of billiard balls colliding or planets swirling around in their orbits in reverse and nothing will look weird, but if you run a movie of a baseball game in reverse people will laugh.

Einstein once termed the distinction between past, present and future "a stubborn illusion," but as Dr. Albert said, "It's hard to imagine something more basic than the distinction between the future and the past."

read more:


http://www.ufodigest.com/mysteryoftime.html
 
Kanigo,

So you in fact are vectoring time....


Eeeeeyup! Most observant (and conversant) of you! /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I would need a better description of orthogonal dimensions the one in wiki is too complicated for me.

Again, you are hitting the nail on the head. Of course, in geometry "orthogonal" means "at right angles to one another". So spatial vectors are easy to understand orthogonality. But how does it apply to Mass or Time? Well, vector cross products and/or matrix mathematics provides perhaps a definition that is more amenable to definitions of orthogonality beyond geometric manifolds...

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/orthogonal

<font color="red"> d. (of two vectors) having an inner product equal to zero.
f. (of a square matrix) defined so that its product with its transpose results in the identity matrix. [/COLOR]

The second is probably the easiest to understand. So the "identity matrix" is a matrix with values of "1.0" along the diagonal, and values of "0.0" in all other positions. So any matrix that is "orthogonal" means there are no cross-coupling terms (those items that are off-diagonal). In geometric orthogonality that means a spatial vector has been broken down into "pure" X, Y, and Z components. So we can see that there is NO cross-coupling terms when we talk about a Time vector if we segregate "places in Time" into Past, Present, and Future.

That was really my point in the first place, that Einstein had labled c squared as the fastest rate of change possible, That is our standard of measurement. Which brings in the expansion theory, Is expansion truly our reference for our "Present" Space_Time?

I think you are (again) stating something that I have stated before (in different terms &amp; past threads). That is, that because vision (which is based on the speed of light) is our sense with the highest frequency response, then our "order of temporality" (order of time, or what Einstein called "perception of simultaneity") would be organized via the speed of light. One way that I have visualized this (in a tip of the hat to our "local Einstein") is that "c^2" is proportional to the surface area of a light bubble. For light emanating outward from a single point, the surface area of that light bubble will always be proportional to c^2. Hence, our perceptions, based on light, "live" on the surface of those light bubbles. Max Tegmark (an MIT physicist) had a similar way of describing this and he calls these "Hubble Bubbles".

I see the capacity to vector time backwards but I cannot wrap my mind around "HAVING" a negative vector- In effect a Negative time pressure. What would you even Name that?

I has spent much time (no pun intended) pondering this very question many years ago. The explanation that I came to SEEMED to make sense to me. What you are getting at is that in a spatial vector coordinate system, we can have "+X" and "-X" displacements along the X axis from some arbitrary reference point. What would it mean to have "+Past" and "-Past"?

The answer (my answer, at least) is that again this would be referenced to an arbitrary reference "point", which would be YOUR personal worldline. These would translate into (fallible) words as something like this:

"0" point in PAST Time = Your conscious worldline that YOU experienced in the past (your past).
"+" direction in PAST Time = A POSSIBLE worldline that you COULD HAVE experienced in your past. In other words, in accordance with the laws of physics, this is something that COULD HAVE HAPPENED in your past. (Example: Your brother could have broke his leg in the past, but in your ACTUAL past you never experienced it).
"-" direction in PAST Time = A NON-POSSIBLE worldline that you would NOT have experienced in your past. Again, this is based on the laws of physics. So an example of "-Past" would be something like: "Someone came to you and split your head down the middle with an axe, and then you sat down to have tea with him and discuss Relativity theory in all its mathematical splendor." Clearly, what we know of physics and how the body works, this would not be possible. But the fact is, my mind can CONCEIVE of it, and tell a story about it. Trouble is that it could never have happened.

So what we are seeing here is the blueprint for imagination and storytelling. It "explains" why it is possible for Hollywood to put together stories in movie format about "what may have happened a long time ago in a galaxy far far away", just as much as they can put together movies about "what could never have happened anywhere" because the laws of physics do not allow it. If you follow this logic, you would be able to see that moving "further in the -PAST direction of Time" relates to some events that are more and more ludicrous, and impossible. IOW their probability that they actually happened decreases. The opposite is of course true for what it means to move further and further in the "+Past" direction of Time. Namely, the described event becomes more and more possible that it was experienced as you move further in "+PAST" time.

The same applications of "+" and "-" to PRESENT and FUTURE components of my alleged "Time vector" would be used in the same way...just as there is consistency in "+" and "-" with respect to all 3 coordinate axes in spatial geometry.

Understand? I realize you may not agree, but I am wondering if you "get what I am saying"? /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Interestingly enough, what I have just described is totally supported by:
Lorenz Transform of worldline:

Views of spacetime along the world line of a rapidly accelerating observer in a relativistic universe. The events ("dots") that pass the two diagonal lines in the bottom half of the image (the past light cone of the observer in the origin) are the events visible to the observer.

RMT
 
RMT

It is certainly no lie that you have seemingly ALWAYS avoided putting any of your "word salad visualizations" in the form of free body diagrams here in any of our discussions. None. Zip. Nada. Care to try and call that a lie?

What you call word salad, I call the english language. You have a problem with my use of the english language to describe reality as I see it. That's your problem dude. Just don't involve me in any of your lies. Cause right now you are starting to look like a very big liar to me.

I came to grips with my fault (learning disability) at a young age. It shaped my entry into engineering. And your assessment of not being able to follow a VISUALIZATION is actually totally incorrect. What my disability causes trouble with is VERBALIZATIONS of someone else's VISUALIZATIONS. This is partly because common language is flawed and aspecific. In point of fact, this realization of my disability is what empowered me to succeed in both mathematics and the dynamics disciplines of engineering because they force you to DRAW DIAGRAMS of a situation (rather than blather on in imprecise verbiage, as you do), and then WRITE EQUATIONS that describe what is going on. The first is PROPER visualization, and the second is quantifying that visualization with a precise language (mathematics).

I'm sorry if I sounded a little harsh. I guess everybody isn't like me. I painstakingly formulate my words precisely to elicit a specific visualization in your mind. But I guess my problem is that not everyone can see pictures in their mind as I do. So I guess I could go a bit further with a freebody diagram if you request it. I have faults too. Everybody does. Mathematics is not as precise as you make it out to be. The basic definitions are changing over time. The biggest hurdle mathematics has is getting past the assumptions one has to make to use mathematics. Is that anyway to describe reality? With assumptions? I don't like it for that very reason. But I am well schooled in mathematics. It's just pointless to use it here on this board. It's the new math that bothers me as well. Young people are being taught math concepts that will not help them later in life. What happened to the multiplication tables that probably you and I had to learn by heart?

And let me continue to point out that, rather than discuss technical issues and answer the questions I put before Einstein, he chooses to continue the polemics. Which is why I throw the polemics right back at him.

Polemic, I had to look that word up. At first I thought it was a bobcat or something the way you used it. But the truth is the shear gravity of some of your replies is just too overwhelming for me to reply to. What I mean is, you have way too much time on your hands. I work 11 hour days. I don't get to spend any of those 11 hours replying to your posts. I might actually get an hour a day.

To continue to highlight to others your Modus Operandus, I will again point out the question of mine that you continue to dodge:

IOW, I am asking if we can use this as a baseline, at least, to agree that Space and Time are actually intertwined...and it is an "error of approximation" to discuss them separately. This is, indeed, what relativity says, yes?

Yes and no. Remember I was talking about green cheese a while back? Charge and spacetime are two different types of green cheese. You can mix them together with motion. But each has its own separate properties. I think each one is independant of the other. That would suggest that the dimensions that describe one are different than the dimensions that describe the other. Extra dimensions, right in front of our nose the whole time.

Not only that, but he has also totally ignored that I have falsified his idea that mass is completely devoid of time. Care to even try to support this theory of yours, Einstein?

Lets get the rules of falsification clarified first before you go claiming you falsified something I said. The almighty might say "Let's make it so!" and Wham Bam. It is. But you don't have that power! Just so we're clear on this point.

Mass is devoid of time. I said that. It is my theory. It is also my theory that mass is created by opposing forces. What I didn't say was those opposing forces occur in opposite directions in time. If you put that in equation form, time is zero. Just for you RMT. X = Y, X - Y = 0

You think you are making me "look bad" Einstein... but I would suggest you are doing more damage to yourself by not engaging in the technical discussions, as are the other folks.

Did I make you look bad? I thought you did that all by yourself. I may have pointed it out to the others when you did a boo boo. I just felt it shouldn't go unnoticed. You know I love to engage in technical discussions. In fact I felt this thread just wasn't getting enough attention. So you can thank me for motivating it. Look at all the replies you got after I posted a new avatar for you.

Enough for now. And please do not attack Timelord. He seems a little shy. But he has theories just like you and me. He's posted a few. But he then deletes them. I think he might be afraid of the onslaught attack style you use. If maybe you would reassure him that you aren't going to rip him to shreds, we might get him to share some more of his really interesting ideas.
 
RMT : "what could never have happened anywhere" because the laws of physics do not allow it.

Would that also imply that it would not occur in another "dimension"? and I use that term loosly.(But I am going to try to prove you right in just a minute with the Lorenz theory)

*Seems a little TOO metaphysical for me. *Like any of recalls posts. (He always suckers me in.)*



RMT : Understand? I realize you may not agree, but I am wondering if you "get what I am saying"?


Lorentz_transform_of_world_line.gif


Watch the event dots as they travel in and out of the event cone while you read this.(The event dots can be right next to the timeline and go outside of the event horizon)





Yeah I agree and get it,absolutely.

After seeing that Lorenz Diagram, you can actually see Impossible events (Out of veiwing range)in the future, coming INTO your event horizon. Making Them Possible.

Also, you can see, highly probable events(Close to your timeline) traveling COMPLETELY outside your event horizon,Making Them Impossible.

And thats only future events!

Which only lends credence to remote viewing(I hated saying that, it turned my stomach).

Thus giving some EVENTS a higher probability of Failure. Maybe impossible.

*My point is, what you saw as inevitable, yesterday, may not be PROBABLE today.*

So take that, HDRKID!

hdrnewsj.jpg


I could also speculate that what is NOT possible today as an event, may be possible in the far past! Because the event occurs ONLY IN THE PAST!

Thats what makes this guy(Greg Egan: Author "The Plank Dive" a douche bag:He is the guy that started all this timeline stuff in the first place.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greg_Egan Author :"The Planck Dive"


******************************************************************
I beg to throw in the fact that we may still be in timeline 1.0 and that only our events perspective has changed.
******************************************************************


Now, My real concern is: can we alter our event horizon WITHOUT ACCELERATION !?
That is where quantum physics and relativity have not Quite met up yet.

As for me, I started understanding the harmonics (requires rotation)portion that einstein is making- when I came across this section in Wiki:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loop_quantum_gravity

"In a nutshell, loop quantization is the result of applying C*-algebraic quantization to a non-canonical algebra of gauge-invariant classical observables. Non-canonical means that the basic observables quantized are not generalized coordinates and their conjugate momenta. Instead, the algebra generated by spin network observables (built from holonomies) and field strength fluxes is used."

Actually looking for pure gravity, hmmm. or as they put it a spin-1 bosons and possibly the spin-2 graviton.

I believe that einsteins point was more concerned with actually the balance in the actual particles, In effect making them stable, I hope.(I know you two were still having a discussion in another thread)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I personally am more concerned about the actual dynamics of what goes into producing the "one way arrow of time" and how to manipulate it.

Is the spin-2 graviton "Pure gravity"? Can It bend space time in sufficient quantity to be measurable? Enough to warp an event horizon?

On a side note , I also understand recognize that string theory allows a two particle to appear to be next to each other even divided by great distances, but

I was more intrigued by Loop_Quantum, as was Einstein.


(I had to clean this up it was almost unreadable, forgive me)
(Ok I think I am finally done, Go ahead rip it apart)
/ttiforum/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
 
Why do I feel like i am being followed by a wheel chair? and a robot voice..

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/main.jhtml?view=DETAILS&amp;grid=&amp;xml=/earth/2008/06/26/scihawking126.xml

Some of what comes up sounds too much like what I was talking about except he went with string theory.


His guess is as good as anyones. The telegraph even stole the same pict I did.

Now I have to alter MY opinion because Hawkings said so-- whatever..


By quantum lore, when a particle of light travels from A to B, it does not take one path but explores every one simultaneously, with the more direct routes being used more heavily.

This is called a sum over histories and Prof Hawking and Prof Hertog propose the same thing for the cosmos.

In this theory, the early universe can be described by a mathematical object called a wave function and, in a similar way to the light particle, the team proposed two years ago that this means that there was no unique origin to the cosmos: instead the wave function of the universe embraced a multitude of means to develop.

This is very counter intuitive: they argued the universe began in just about every way imaginable (and perhaps even some that are not). Out of this profusion of beginnings, like a blend of a God’s eye view of every conceivable kind of creation, the vast majority of the baby universes withered away to leave the mature cosmos that we can see today.

What a hack.
 
The difference between a scientist and a genius is this: when a scientist's work is finished, years of intense study and confusion result in a moderate understanding, while a genius' work results in everyone saying "ha! that's so simple, even I understand it!"

And that would describe Hawkings ..HOW?

Understanding space time and the Manipulation of it, will be as simple to a layman as it is to a 5 year old.

I can see it now, "Daddy, how do we travel into the past?"

The father will describe a device and its limitations.(That is, if it is possible) which to this day we understand that it is.

**********************************************************************************************

I had thought to say, that looking at the Lorenz diagram that everything is possible in the future, because it is inside our veiwing envelope. Hawkings says it is possible because our entire veiwing are is "all places at one time" --That would include the past.

He Violates Lorenz just by saying that.

I already acknowledge the string theory portion.

He mind as well sit in this forum so I can criticize him.

onion_news2070.article.jpg
 
Re:Falling into a Black hole was:Agreeing

<font color="blue"> Falling Into a Black Hole
In which we fall into a black hole on a real free fall orbit. All distortions of images are real, both general relativistic from the gravitational bending of light, and special relativistic from the near light speed orbit.

The black hole belongs to a quadruple stellar system, a binary binary. The system is fictional, but plausible.

After you are done dying at the central singularity of the black hole, feel free to explore more about the Schwarzschild geometry, about wormholes, about the collapse of a black hole, and about Hawking radiation. [/COLOR]

read more:
Falling...

:D
 
Back from Colorado... foundation form &amp; pour begins next week. Should be in place and curing by next SAT. Steel building arrives on AUG 8th. BUSY SUMMER FOR RAINMANTIME! :D

Would that also imply that it would not occur in another "dimension"? and I use that term loosly

If you mean some other dimension of the Massive SpaceTime we exist within, then I would say yes. But it depends on what you mean by dimension. If by using this term you mean another version of Massive SpaceTime (another universe?), then I would say no... because the laws of physics that prevent something (or make it highly unlikely) in our universe of Massive SpaceTime may not be the same in another universe. However, there would still likely be conservation laws in other universes...they may just conserve different quantities.

*Seems a little TOO metaphysical for me.

I understand. But by the same token, any "theory of everything" that attempts to unite Mass with SpaceTime would have to be metaphysical by its very nature. Because if all physicality is described by Massive SpaceTime, and what we are trying to do is describe the "next highest level of system" within which Massive SpaceTime exists, that would be beyond (meta) physical. It is my view (belief...call it what you will) that the Matrix of Massive SpaceTime is a subsystem of a larger matrix, one we refer to as consciousness. As a professional systems engineer and one who has studied systems and systemic relationships all my life, it is my understanding that the universe and any "theory of everything" is a "systems within systems" problem. This would also account for how I have structured my theory of Massive SpaceTime...towhit:

Think of 3-D Space as one "subsystem" of physicality. It represents a geometric manifold within which we can describe something that exists within it (Space). The other two "subsystems" of physicality are Mass and Time. I maintain that, just like Space, Mass and Time can be and are distinctly described using triplex codon manifolds (fancy words for saying that there are three orthogonal subdimensions of each major dimension, Mass, Space, and Time).

But now let us rise above the level of these individual subsystems to the larger system that encompasses these three inter-related subsystems. What do we call that? Well, we tend to call it physical reality. But I call it Massive SpaceTime so that we remember the 3 subsystems that comprise this larger system. Note that the principle of trinity which is in effect at the subsystem level remains in effect at the larger system level... it is the "same" (threeness) but it is "different" in that it integrates all three of the lower dimensions (subsystems).

Yeah I agree and get it,absolutely.

After seeing that Lorenz Diagram, you can actually see Impossible events (Out of veiwing range)in the future, coming INTO your event horizon. Making Them Possible.

Also, you can see, highly probable events(Close to your timeline) traveling COMPLETELY outside your event horizon,Making Them Impossible.

And thats only future events!

Which only lends credence to remote viewing(I hated saying that, it turned my stomach).

Thus giving some EVENTS a higher probability of Failure. Maybe impossible.

*My point is, what you saw as inevitable, yesterday, may not be PROBABLE today.*

Cool. Glad you got what I am saying. What we should also not lose sight upon is the power of this view of Massive SpaceTime. Its power can be readily seen when we recognize just how widespread and amazing has become the business of storytelling. People around the world spend lots of money each week/month/year to "escape to another world" when they go and see a movie. Moreso than remote viewing, the movie business is all about exploring Massive SpaceTime. This industry brings us stories that can be fit ANYWHERE in the 3-Dx3-D tensor of SpaceTime. Things that DID happen, things that did not but COULD HAVE happened, and things that did not and COULD NOT HAVE happened!

I personally am more concerned about the actual dynamics of what goes into producing the "one way arrow of time" and how to manipulate it.

What would you say if it were discovered that this "one way arrow of time" was ONLY the result of how we choose to observe? The confounded, relentless tendency of the human mind to impress order upon what it observes, and reject anything that is unordered?

The mentor of Carlos Castaneda (Don Juan Matus) spoke of this very thing quite often as he was teaching Castaneda the rites of shamanism.

RMT
 
Wecome back.

The mentor of Carlos Castaneda (Don Juan Matus) spoke of this very thing quite often as he was teaching Castaneda the rites of shamanism.

Did you read the wiki page on Carlos? Last paragraph....

In the The Power and the Allegory, De Mille compared The Teachings of Don Juan: A Yaqui way of Knowledge with Castenada's library stack requests at the University of California. The stack requests documented that he was sitting in the library when his journal said he was squatting in don Juan's hut. One of the most memorable discoveries the De Mille made in his examination of the stack requests was that when Castaneda said he was participating in the traditional peyote ceremony -- the least fantastic episode of drug use -- he was not only sitting in the library, but he was reading someone else's description of their experience of the peyote ceremony.

Muhaha, sounds like Darby wrecking some poor guys story....

He has more.. but I'll let who ever cares to read it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlos_Castaneda

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hey Ray can we alter this thread just a slight amount?

I was doing a little reading that recall had sent me on..... Don't laugh...

It lead into this for me.

Here is how I would like to move on....


This page discribes:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawking_radiation


A few items of interest that if you could explain to me-
I do believe it is fitting for the few cut pieces that I will provide and may actually provide a slightly smaller understanding of our perception into spacetime.(and manipulation:) )


1.So, for instance, a 1 second-lived black hole has a mass of 2.28 × 105 kg, equivalent to an energy of 2.05 × 1022 J that could be released by 5 × 106 megatons of TNT. The initial power is 6.84 × 1021 W.

Understanding that the output is greater the smaller the event. Do you believe that it is possible to make a stable detailed balance perfect blackbody, miniture that only outputs a few TeV?
Dropping in lets say a quark at a time before it collapses?

Do you believe it is possible to utilize this as an energy source?

(I understand that the basic concept of particle property and energy output is still up for discussion just want to see where you fall on the subject)



2.The concept or theory of extra large dimension here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Large_extra_dimension

Which do you side with the opponents or proponents view?



3.I didn't realize that there was a alternate theory to Hawkings radiation. Called the Unruh effect.
That is less controversial. Vacuum is simply the lowest possible energy state of these fields. (I like that)
I loved this statement of the interpretation of a vacuum.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unruh_effect

Also:

An accelerating observer will perceive an apparent event horizon forming (see Rindler spacetime). The existence of Unruh radiation can be linked to this apparent event horizon, putting it in the same conceptual framework as Hawking radiation. On the other hand, the Unruh effect shows that the definition of what constitutes a "particle" depends on the state of motion of the observer.

Do you believe that even at the quantum scale that this would be true?
If what we are trying to do is bridge quantum theory here and it were true , we might have to redefine what we percieve based entirely on our acceleration rate.



4. None the less, both theories are only provable under this condition:

Requires an accelerated observer to be an electron circularly orbiting in a constant external magnetic field

I don't think that i even need to explain where I am going with that one...

Just throw out what you feel about any of this , I would like to hear it.
 
Hi,

Except the technical details, I understand from what I have read in this thread that there is no consensus on what time is, whether it is a separate entity or it is intertwined with space. Local Einstein said that it seems that mass is devoid of time. That is an interesting claim. Is it only the vibrations that show time exists? Assuming time stopped, what would happen?
 
The unstoppable force meets the unmovable object-infinite energy.

You have to understand all these theories -EVERY SINGLE ONE- implies that your perspective is based upon acceleration- you cannot just "stop time" it has to be gradual.

To one target, you will appear to have sped up and to another target slowed down... well you get the idea.
It's all relative.

Now what may cook your noodle, is that under extreme acceleration you may be able to witness the background radiation of the universe,where in our perspective we look at it as empty space.

You would actually witness time slowing down. Relatively speaking.
 
Local Einstein said that it seems that mass is devoid of time. That is an interesting claim.

What you mean here is that "it seems to him" that mass is devoid of time.

Anyway, it's pretty difficult to make that statement unless, as he tends to do, one takes a term from physics like "mass" and then arbitrarily attaches a personal definition to it.

In physics the definition of mass gives rise to two properties. It has "gravitational mass". That's the aspect of mass that causes all massive objects in the universe to accelerate (attraction) toward each other. Mass also includes "inertial mass". That's the aspect of mass that causes all massive objects to resist acceleration.

Time is implicit in the definition of both aspects of mass because each involves acceleration as given in the differential equation a = d^2x/dt^2 (acceleration equals an increasing or decreasing rate of displacement in space for every unit of time).

The real Einstein actually didn't use the equation E = mc^2 in his initial paper of Special Relativity. In the 1905 paper the equation was m = E/c^2. Mass equals energy divided by the square of the speed of light. The speed of light is given in units of length times the time. Again, mass (and energy) are given in units with respect to time as well as distance.

From this Minkowski, Einstein's professor, postulated correctly that space and time can't be seen as two seperate entities. Rather, they are two parts of a single continuum called spacetime.

With these two discoveries relative to Special Relativity you can define space in units of time and time in units of space. You can define mass in units of energy and energy in units of mass. You can use further transformations and define time and space in units of mass and energy.

In General Relativity, EInstein's theory of gravity, spacetime becomes the stage upon which mass plays out it's existence by warping the spacetime fabric.

What non-scientists apparently find troubling is that they can't seem to find a simple definition of time that puts it in terms that gives them a mental picture of some sort of physical object. They conclude, in many cases, that because time isn't defined in those terms that it must be a vague concept even to physicists.

I hate to burst their bubbles but time isn't the only physical concept that can't be defined in the terms that they would prefer to have. Mass, energy, momentum, torque and a whole host of physical constructs used in science are similarly defined. No person on Earth, today, yesterday or tomorrow will ever hold in their hands or take a picture of a "piece" of energy, mass, momentum or torque even though they are all different names for the same thing - mass-energy. Likewise they'll never hold or take a picture of a piece of time (or space).

Taken together - spacetime and mass-energy - you have a variety of names that are used to describe a single construct, our integrated reality. The Universe if you will. Ray likes to call it Massive SpaceTime
 
Local Einstein said that it seems that mass is devoid of time. That is an interesting claim.

Yes he has said that in another forum/thread. But I also presented several different examples that falsifies his thought, which he did not seem to like, much less agree that they falsified his theory. And Darby has falsified it in another manner.

So what I am waiting for from our local Einstein is his evidence that supports his claim... although it would not be of much use since his claim is already falsified in more ways than one.

RMT
 
Wecome back.

Thanks Kanigo2, it is good to be back, even if it means returning to work-work. /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Did you read the wiki page on Carlos? Last paragraph....(SNIP)

Muhaha, sounds like Darby wrecking some poor guys story....

Yep, I am fully aware of the questions of whether Carlos actually did everything he wrote that he did. Yet there is still value in what he claimed Don Juan Matus was teaching. For one of the primary themes of the shamanic teachings of Don Juan involves the teaching of non-linear spaces, and how they represent the largest part of our "reality". Very seldom in the Don Juan books does Carlos spell-out the link between the ideas of "Stalking" and non-linear math. But that is exactly the concept that Don Juan teaches when he calls students to "look at the empty space between objects" for that is where power is concentrated.

1.So, for instance, a 1 second-lived black hole has a mass of 2.28 × 105 kg, equivalent to an energy of 2.05 × 1022 J that could be released by 5 × 106 megatons of TNT. The initial power is 6.84 × 1021 W.

Understanding that the output is greater the smaller the event. Do you believe that it is possible to make a stable detailed balance perfect blackbody, miniture that only outputs a few TeV?
Dropping in lets say a quark at a time before it collapses?

Do you believe it is possible to utilize this as an energy source?

(I understand that the basic concept of particle property and energy output is still up for discussion just want to see where you fall on the subject)

My answer may not be what you were looking for, but... I take any/all models that operate on particle physics with a grain of salt (there IS a pun there if you think hard enough). We know that the particle approach breaks down at the Planck length, and Quantum takes over... or so science says today. But in my mind, and based on my research, I simply feel that "reality" (physical reality) is a natural blend of quantum and classical. "Reality" as we perceive it (being the conscious observer that acts to collapse wave functions) lives in our minds as how we perceive the opposing descriptions of physicality offered by relativity and quantum physics.

My discussion of what I claim to be a technical basis for differentiating between MASS and MATTER forms the foundational argument for how I believe current science is "getting it a bit wrong".

<font color="blue">MASS represents the particle approach...reducto ad absurdum is what I call it. You constantly invent new smaller particles to describe the variations in larger particle interactions. Doesn't that sound a bit like "epicycles upon epicycles" to you? To me that is exactly what it is when you talk about subatomic particles (those smaller than electron, proton, and neutron). I think one only needs to see the TRIAD BALANCED CONFIGURATION of (e-, n0, p+) to come to the conclusion that MASS ACTS LIKE A VECTOR (i.e. it has 3 subdimensions) JUST LIKE SPACE.[/COLOR]

<font color="red">MATTER represents the quantum approach...expando ab grandum is what I call it. We describe objects with regard to how MASS changes over TIME. For example, my body takes in mass (eating and drinking) and it also gives off mass (excretions). The thing I call "me" or "I" is not composed of the same mass all the time. Yet I still consider it my body. This is the probabilistic aspect of the Wave Function itself!! The probability that MASS would take on certain aspects at a certain TIME, and how it can change to different aspects at a different TIME. To me, this is the balacing aspect of the particle approach that is needed to resolve the two approaches.[/COLOR]

The thing that I think is interesting when you make this distinction between MATTER and MASS is that you see a similarity between MATTER and MOTION in their units:
<font color="red">MOTION[/COLOR] has units of <font color="blue">VELOCITY[/COLOR] which is <font color="black">[Length]/[Time][/COLOR] and its derivative measures (acceleration, jerk, etc.)
<font color="red">MATTER[/COLOR] has units of <font color="blue">MASS FLOW[/COLOR] which is <font color="black">[Mass]/[Time][/COLOR], and it would also have derivative measures (rate of change of mass flow, higher derivatives with respect to Time)

So when we talk about <font color="red">RELATIVE MOTION[/COLOR] we are specifically discussing <font color="red">Space-Time[/COLOR]...<font color="blue">VELOCITY[/COLOR]... <font color="black">[Length]/[Time][/COLOR]. This is all coherent with respect to how relativity classifies space-time.
Then we should also be able to talk about <font color="red">RELATIVE MATTER[/COLOR], where we would be talking in terms of <font color="red">Mass-Time[/COLOR]...<font color="blue">MASS FLOW RATE...CHANGE OF MOMENTUM[/COLOR]...<font color="black">[MASS]/[TIME].[/COLOR]

Just throw out what you feel about any of this , I would like to hear it.
This is all fine and scholarly work, but I do not believe anyone has observed or measured any results that confirm Hawking Radiation yet. The jury is still out, in my view and that goes for the Unruh effect as well. It is my belief that the issue I raise above (coming to a agreement on the technical distinction between MASS and MATTER) is one that science will have to adopt, at some point. The sooner the better, IMO. Once this distinction is agreed-upon, it is my belief we will finally unlock a major clue of inertia, rest mass, and relativistic mass. In fact, the very concept of the difference between rest mass and relativistic mass made by Einstein serves to confirm that MATTER and MASS are different. One (MATTER) necessarily involves TIME. The other (MASS) is a fictional device we use to try and claim that an object can exist separate from TIME.

What I am saying is that the real Einstein was the first to show that SPACE and TIME as separate metrics lead to erroneous measures. And as such a single manifold of Space-Time is more accurate. Why would it not be natural to now show how MASS and TIME as separate metrics lead to erroneous measures? As such it is more appropriate to refer to a manifold of Mass-Time to be more accurate. This is what I claim MATTER to be. Separate and distinct from MASS. MATTER is a tensor manifold comprised of MASS and TIME, just as MOTION is a tensor manifold comprised of SPACE and TIME.

And finally I would ask someone (anyone) to point out what they might think is "wrong" with the following matrix relationship diagram...
six-sierpinski.gif


RMT
 
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