Discussion What Would Make John Titor's Story Even Better?

[Num7]

We often discuss various elements of the JT story, what we like, and what we dislike about it. What aspects make it believable or not...

What about missing components that would have made it even better, or even more convincing? Have you thought about this?

- What if he had a sidekick, a Robin to his Batman?
- What if his story had an actual person as an antagonist?
- What if he posted pictures of himself or more personal information?
- What if he posted videos?
- What if he made more predictions? Or more specific predictions?
- What if he gave Pamela more than a secret song?

Think about it, and let me know what you think. What would make it even better or perhaps even more convincing?

 

[JudasTitor]

Let's be real, would you ever send a solo male on a time travel mission knowing in full that this man may end up so far in the past that he is the 1st human? Of course not, you would assign a hot, young co-ed navigator to all missions.

 

[Num7]

Let's be real, would you ever send a solo male on a time travel mission knowing in full that this man may end up so far in the past that he is the 1st human? Of course not, you would assign a hot, young co-ed navigator to all missions.

We don't know much about John Titor. Was he hot? Was he handsome? No idea, man! We only have a glimpse of what his age would be, but I can't remember. Wasn't he born in like... 1999?

 

[JudasTitor]

1998, allegedly...... do you recall what he said about the meaning of the 177th unit patch insignia?

 

[Darby]

1998, allegedly...... do you recall what he said about the meaning of the 177th unit patch insignia?

He never mentioned a unit heraldry patch. That came along years later from someone else as a commercial product. It is sold on Etsy. In a real army a heraldry patch for Titor's unit would just not happen unless they threw 900 years of military protocol out the window. Titor mentioned that there were several time travelers in his unit, not several hundred. To qualify for a unit heraldry patch the unit has to be at least battalion strength ~500+ assigned personnel. It's more common for brigade sized units of 1,000+ personnel. From his description his unit was squad sized ~12 personnel. Squads don't get heraldry patches.

If his unit did have a heraldry patch it wouldn't be a one color OD green bore. There are regulations for unit patches that include color palettes and design requirements. Telling an interesting internet saga won't get some REMF Major to approve a patch.

 

[JudasTitor]

He never mentioned a unit heraldry patch. That came along years later from someone else as a commercial product. It is sold on Etsy. In a real army a heraldry patch for Titor's unit would just not happen unless they threw 900 years of military protocol out the window. Titor mentioned that there were several time travelers in his unit, not several hundred. To qualify for a unit heraldry patch the unit has to be at least battalion strength ~500+ assigned personnel. It's more common for brigade sized units of 1,000+ personnel. From his description his unit was squad sized ~12 personnel. Squads don't get heraldry patches.

If his unit did have a heraldry patch it wouldn't be a one color OD green bore. There are regulations for unit patches that include color palettes and design requirements. Telling an interesting internet saga won't get some REMF Major to approve a patch.

Now some of that might be regulation under current active duty ARMY staff, but John was not enlisted. If Im not mistaken, he stated that he was a civilian contractor of E7 equivalent pay rank, which I've seen a similar pay structure when bidding federal contracts and federal employment through FEMA. Even small teams of state security contractors use patchs on their squad, including squads of 8. Consider a NASA flight crew patch for example.

 

[Darby]

JudasTitor - Here's what Titor actually said:

From the “I Am From 2036” thread (Post-2-Post BBS)

Posted by John Titor on 02-05-2001 11:28 AM

“I was born in 1998 …[snip]

From the age of 8 to 12, we lived away from the cities… [snip]

Outright open fighting was common by then and I joined a shotgun infantry unit in 2011. I served with the “Fighting Diamondbacks” for about 4 years. [snip] “

Thus at age 13, 2011. he joined a militia and left the militia at age 17. Unless the requirements for E7 had changed just “a little bit” he wasn’t an E7 at that time. He was a child.

Posted by John Titor on 02-06-2001 06:35 AM

“The “machine” is owned by the military. I am part of a unit stationed in Tampa Florida.”

Posted by John Titor on 02-19-2001 07:25 PM

“((What rank were you in the Army?))

It is the equivalent of Major.

((Where did you go to BCT?))

I wasn’t fortunate enough to go to basic. We were fighting a war at the time.

((What company were you with, and what year did you graduate from BCT?))

The organization of the fighting unit I was in fell under the militia. We fought against the organized army.”

So, he said he was an O4 Major or more likely a WO4 Chief Warrant Officer, a specialist. But he was really vague because he didn’t differentiate between the time he was in a militia and the army. I assumed the “equivalent of a major” was during the 2030s when he was an adult. He didn’t have time to attend basic combat training because “there was a war at the time”? Sorry, but only a civilian who had never been in the military would say something that stupid.

Posted by Pamela Moore on 02-20-2001 08:16 AM

“Pamela:9.do you wear special uniforms when you time travel? what do they look like and does your group have a timetravel emblem or group name?

Timetravel_0: I wear a standard civilian service uniform during instruction and training.

Its sort of a cross between an army uniform and overalls. We do have a quarter master who distributes clothing appropriate to where ever we are going. There is a patch. It is round and has a graphic of a Kerr singularity (sort of looks like an eye with gravity waves around it) with two spiral paths running through it's center. One path represents the "safe" way and the other is the path to God. The bottom of the patch has my unit number along with "Temporal Recon" printed on it. However, we remove any identification and patches before we go anywhere.”

This is the only time the “Temporal Recon” unit is mentioned. Also note that Titor himself didn’t post anything about the patch or his unit. That was posted by Pamela based on a private email conversation she had with Titor. Even after she posted the information Titor himself never posted anything about the unit, his rank or the patch. We have to take it all on faith alone that her report is an accurate and unbiased recounting of their conversation. Pamela, far too often, had offline conversations with Titor and other would be time travelers and then post what was allegedly said. Not everyone believed her. It was for good reason. Because in far too many cases as soon as a would be time traveler made their first post she would post an offer to take them offline for "special" discussions. That included Titor.. He posted just once and she instantly bought into his story and offered to be his spox and to post his picture, photos and diagrams elsewhere. People really didn't like that obviously biased approach. It got worse here once people learned that Raul aka MOP, the owner of TTI, had identified Titor by his IP as someone who had been posting here far longer than Titor had supposedly been in 2001. For my part I was offered the same access to the same people except for Titor. I would tell them that if they had something to say about their story they needed to post it online in the forum. I refused the offers for private conversations every time.

In any case, there is no “177th” or “Tempus Edax Rerum” mentioned in Pamela’s post. He just said his unit number is on the patch. The post also does not mention any colors. More important, it say that he didn’t bring a patch with him. He removed his “uniform” before he went anywhere. As I said in my previous post, the patch you see online came up years after the posts. As far as being a part of the Titor Saga as it occurred here and on the Post-2-Post BBS it is a fake issued strictly for commercial purposes.

 

[JudasTitor]

The path to God statement was my line of thought in my statement. A simple navigation error could crash land the C204 in 1947 Roswell, NM.

Do you know the exact origin of the current Image of the agency patch?

"I assumed the “equivalent of a major” was during the 2030s when he was an adult."

That was my thought process as well. Florida state security officers are technically civilians, but also fall under definition of Florida militia. Your typical SSO will carry a 9mm, .40 cal, 10mm, or .45acp as his sidearm with a 12 gauge shotgun. The security teams at Crystal River & Turkey Point nuclear power plants are granted special state authorization for automatic weapons, the only authorization in Florida off military base or SWAT authorization for law enforcement.

I posted the GS government pay chart as a reference for us to estimate pay in 2036. Minimum wage in Florida is currently $13 an hour. John's statement that his rank is equivalent to major suggests that he holds a Florida Class MB Security License, a branch managers license authorizing him to oversee security for 1 branch of a larger organization, for example; the Hillsborough county office of Diamondback.

 

[Darby]

The path to God statement was my line of thought in my statement.

Do you know the exact origin of the current Image of the agency patch?

Understood about "the path to God". We just need to take care that when we appear to be quoting someone that we don't improvise.

The original picture of the patch isn't in any of the posts or even originally found online. It's at the top of page 166 in "The Book" (John Titor: A Time Traveler's Tale", copyright The John Titor Foundation, Florida LLC ISBN 1-59196-436-9).

We were never supposed to find any link between Time Travel Institute, Raul (MOP), Celebration, FL, the Celebration Florida BBS, VISI Corp, John Titor, Larry Haber and Ben Z. I accidentally stumbled across some of the links and fairly quickly put the rest together based on my professional training.

Look at the bottom of the page, any page, on TTI. Way down below is the TOS page link. It's actually blank now. But back in 2001 it had the terms of service rules. At the bottom of that page there were different links. One was to The Magical Mouse (Disney Corp's Travel Agency) another was the Celebration, FL 34747 community website and BBS, www.https://34747.com. As it turned out, Raul designed and maintained The Magical Mouse website for Disney and he was the network designer and SysAdmin for the Celebration intranet, website and BBS. Having every home in Celebration pre-wired for the Internet was absolutely cutting edge technology in 2000. Disney Corp owned Celebration and was the real estate developer. Raul provided the cutting edge technology to Disney. Please note that Raul had nothing to do with the Titor Saga as a participant. He was as they say, "Just the Piano Player" who provided the websites and BBSs.

On the Magical Mouse I found direct links to Celebration's BBS and on Celebration's BBS I found links back to TTI. There were also discussions on the BBS about Titor and TTI. I discovered that it appeared that "Titor" had already been a member here under some other name (which was later confirmed to mr by MOP). From there the links started falling in line. It just took some grunt work that was a "bit" more difficult in 2001-2002 than it is in 2024. Google was not quite as all inclusive. I had to use other resources - US Patent Office, US Copyright Office, Florida Department of Corporations, Florida DMV, New York Department of Corporations, etc. But we did find the links and I prepared a proper Link Analysis pretty much by hand. Link analysis software such as "Kaseware" and "i2" hadn't been invented. They also cost, depending on the version, between $3,000 and $10,000 for the single user licenses. Just a bit much for online fun.

From the new contacts I was untimately delivered an unsolicited copy of The Book which I still have.

"The Patch" graphic has nothing to do with the online versions you see that have "177" and "Tempus Edax Rerum". None of that appears on the copyrighted original patch graphic. I discovered that Larry Haber, a person who went by JTFan and one other person who went by Ben Z were using a single email account, [email protected]. Through that email address I was able to contact Larry Haber who thereafter put me in contact with Ben Z. I was never able to obtain Ben Z's real name. Haber had put my research partner Rick Donaldson and me in touch with Ben. Ben apparently had a NDA that included not disclosing his true identity. That's why we only knew him as Ben Z. When I conversed with Ben Z I learned that Larry Haber hired him to lead a team to produce "The Book". He said that he and the team believed they were producing a work of fiction that went hand-in-hand with some sort of online role playing game the details about which they new nothing. They took all of our posts from this site and Art Bell's site and put them together into a chronological order. Of course they didn't attribute our names to the posts - they simply added our posts to their copyright without our permission.

They then made up a narrative that was supposed to be "Momma" Kay Titor's thoughts about the posts. At the end of The Book the book team inserted the patch graphic and some new graphics that they proffered as being the extra graphics Titor promised to release as he left this world.

Ben Z was very frank in stating that the book team designed all of the "extra" graphics themselves. Ben said neither the patch graphic nor any of the extra graphics came from any source other than his team. They designed and produced the graphics at the graphic arts studio at VISI Corp. VISI Corp was located in the same building as Haber's office. In fact Larry Haber was VISI Corp's corporate attorney.

So that's the story of the graphics and the patch. I've inserted the original patch taken directly from The Book. Notice that it looks nothing like what you have seen online.

 

[Darby]

It takes me significant time to put together my long posts. They end up timing out before I can finish. So here's the last of the information:

There is no such person as "Momma" Kay Titor, at least not as presented in The Book. The only text material that appears in The Book is, as I said above, Titor and our posts and what are supposed to be Kay Titor's thoughts about what is said in the posts. Ben Z was very clear about the fact that his team made up everything that they attributed to the narrator, Kay Titor. They weren't lying to anyone. They were performing the service they believed they were contracted to perform; perform a commercial service for Larry Haber and his client that involved writing a science fiction novelization of events based on the posts. They were to additionally design and insert the "extra" graphics promised in one of the posts. They didn't interview anyone, no one presented themself as Kay Titor nor did they ask anyone for their thoughts about the posts. They made up the narrative and patch graphic in their entirety.

Is there an actual living person client that Larry Haber represents? Absolutely yes. There is a real client whose name is unknown to us. Is that person the parent of the person whom I named "Boomer", the author of the posts made using the pseudonyms John Titor and TimeTravel_0 and who sent the two faxes to Art Bell? It's possible but not necessary. The client could well be and probably is Boomer him/her self.

 

[JudasTitor]

Thank you for the concise background information on VISI Corp.

Was the original image from VISI Corp modified after the book release by a 3rd party to the image that is now associated with the agency / unit uniform patch?

I am in agreement with you that Larry Haber was hired by a client to perform various tasks. What the potential intended outcome of those tasks originally was, I do not know.

What is your opinion as to why someone would hire Larry Haber & by extension VISI Corp? What was the employers original intended outcome?

 

[Jay Walker]

We don't know much about John Titor. Was he hot? Was he handsome? No idea, man! We only have a glimpse of what his age would be, but I can't remember. Wasn't he born in like... 1999

One of Mr._0's posts was discussing how his 2-year-old self was upstairs asleep. That means there is a JT look-alike that should be around 26 years old right now. That person would give some indication of what he looked like at 26, rather than 40. Unless one of them has been enjoying the life style of a lazy, self-centered, civically ignorant sheep. Because he would probably be much heavier. jk.

 

[Num7]

Man, it's been so long that I need to reread the entire posts and story. I think I forgot a lot of it.