Titor question?

[Hercules]

Again I implore you to invoke science, as you indicated you wished to do. Just in a kidding manner, I would have to give you a "C" for your application of science so far, Herc.

Hey there, thanks man. You know, I already expected you’d do a “thesis” work for what I posted.

But you see, CERN is already in the verge of doing LHC experiments.

If NOT donut shaped, I cannot think of any other shape where you can use a singularity to Time Travel to the past. Possible or not, that is WHAT I am interested in.

He quoted Titor as the source of his scientific facts. Are you just being extremely lenient or are you using a bell curve for the grading scale? LOL....

HaHa.. good joke. But you should know even if YOU give me “Z” it bothers me the LEAST, cuz it ain’t makin me any money. /ttiforum/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

 

[Ganesh2005]

Hi all...don't know if anyone's seen this yet...I'll post it anyway

Daniel/Fred is the user name. He claims to be the poster on several threads which have
gained some notoriety over the internet.

These posters include Fred, Daniel, and John Titor. He also claims to have a
hand in the Dan Burish saga.



"Yes Please be advised that all my material is copyrighted.
It will be used in a book soon for your viewing pleasure."

"I am also astral girl, predicting all those peoples futures just
by using the psychological profile of the woo woo´s here."

"I also have one more revalation for all of you.

I am the John Titor hoaxer as well. I used my car , along with an old ammunition carton
from when I was in the army. I used Photoshop to edit alot of the laser trickery, and
edited a picture from one of my survival guides with the time machine."

"Now the whole Dan Burisch stuff. I won´t go into details, but I am a "part" of that.
I wont go any further. I don´t want to totally ruin all of your nights."

"The whole Burisch stuff though. Well I´m just warning you about that! Please do your
homework on that! He´s not exactly all there, but there is some truth to it. But most
of it is not. But thats not my gig. They are hoping to make some money off of that!"

"There comes a time when you have to come clean. I´ve had so many laughs at all of your expenses.

But to be honest, now I have a terminal disease, and will be dying soon. I wanted to have a
good last laugh before I go. I also wanted the truth to be revealed. Please forward this
information to all people concerned. Including all the John Titor fans. I do donate most
of the money I receive from the John Titor book to charities, for the sake of good Karma.

Unfortunately I have a hereditary disease that makes me recently immobile and stuck to a chair.
I have no life and no time on my hands other than to cause trouble on the internet. I have an
old car, among other things and many books to peak my interest."

Here's the thread; GLP

 

[Einstein]

Well there you have it. John Titor himself admits its a hoax and has finally come clean. I'm glad that's over with. Now we can get down to the buisness of a real time machine.

 

[RainmanTime]

But you see, CERN is already in the verge of doing LHC experiments.

Non-sequitor. Are they creating donuts?

If NOT donut shaped, I cannot think of any other shape where you can use a singularity to Time Travel to the past.

No offense, but that may be more likely due to your own limitations than the potential that the donut is the only solution.

I already expected you’d do a “thesis” work for what I posted.

Thanks. I'm just furthering the goals of REAL science, and making sure our discussions adheres to REAL science. That is what you wanted, right?

RMT

 

[Hercules]

Non-sequitor. Are they creating donuts?

There you go. That shows your anger against this type of approach. Do you expect them to create Donut-shaped singularities DIRECTLY?

No offense, but that may be more likely due to your own limitations than the potential that the donut is the only solution.

You should notice that EVEN BEFORE nature article came up with that idea I was insisting that Donut is a POSSIBLE solution to time travel to the past. /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[RainmanTime]

There you go. That shows your anger against this type of approach. Do you expect them to create Donut-shaped singularities DIRECTLY?

Not at all. Anger has nothing to do this. I am trying to make sure your story (and that of Titor's) is consistent! And the answer is YES! If Titor's story is to be believed (in which he specifically talks of CERN creating these microsingularities), then yes, I expect them to create the donut singularities that you (and Titor) are hanging your possibilities on. If it is part of your story, then I expect to see it validated! If they don't create donut-shaped microsingularities, then I think you would have to agree from a scientific standpoint that your hype, and Titor's story, does not hold water.

It always comes back to a scientific approach, my friend, which you now seem to be avoiding, eh?

You should notice that EVEN BEFORE nature article came up with that idea I was insisting that Donut is a POSSIBLE solution to time travel to the past.

Yet you cannot prove it in any manner. IOW, it is not so much a possibility as it is a HOPE of yours. Not very scientific.

I'm sorry to sound so harsh, but you have yet to admit that all I am doing is seeking to maintain a scientific posture with all of your ramblings intended to support Titor's story. THAT is the issue here, as much as you wish to squirm around it. It's all abuot SCIENCE, and the practice thereof.

RMT

 

[Hercules]

I'm sorry to sound so harsh, but you have yet to admit that all I am doing is seeking to maintain a scientific posture with all of your ramblings intended to support Titor's story. THAT is the issue here, as much as you wish to squirm around it. It's all abuot SCIENCE, and the practice thereof.

It always comes back to a scientific approach, my friend, which you now seem to be avoiding, eh?

I don’t see that you are sounding so harsh. I see that all your goals are aimed in making ANYTHING with respect to Titor- scientific or not, you call it ramblings. This is what I see it as “sentiments”. Not only in this thread, but in other threads as well.

When I analyzed the story from a psychological viewpoint, if someone were given a mission to TT to the past, he wouldn’t be carrying all the research materials and mathematical equations that led to the invention of the Time Machine, rather he’d be more into doing his work, not proving his identity as a TT, considering the fact that what might happen if he was spotted.

Again from YOUR viewpoint these are “ramblings”.

From my viewpoint, if the Titor story was constructed and if it is a fake, I would never call it ramblings. The PLOT is VERY, VERY interesting (considering the IBM 5100 story). Anyone who has constructed it had put such a lot of effort to make it “look” so real.

If it is part of your story, then I expect to see it validated! If they don't create donut-shaped microsingularities, then I think you would have to agree from a scientific standpoint that your hype, and Titor's story, does not hold water.

No. Me hoping to see that TT is achieved using singularities/donuts/CERN is different. But I will not be talking about Titor after this year(2005). /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[RainmanTime]

I see that all your goals are aimed in making ANYTHING with respect to Titor- scientific or not, you call it ramblings. This is what I see it as “sentiments”. Not only in this thread, but in other threads as well.

No, they are not just "sentiments". I provide scientific basis for why Titor's story cannot and should not be viewed as something that can be scientifically verified or validated. Now, perhaps "ramblings" is not a good word, because I would agree with you that the Titor story SOUNDS good. But the discriminator between Sounding Good and actually Being Valid is science. And the Titor story fails the tests of science on many different levels... the most important one being that it is not falsifiable.

You take great liberties in your analysis and interpretation of the Titor story. That is fine, and that is you prerogative. I just don't want anyone thinking that your intepretations are at all backed by science. The liberties and assumptions you make about the Titor story are closer to ramblings than the Titor story itself. /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif

RMT

 

[TimeNot_0]

Unfortunately there is already a thread here by Mop. That thread now about page 2 describes what an Israeli scientist (Ori) thinks about it all. That is in the article given by the link to Nature.com .

And since there is actually no light in the picture taken showing that event, or should I say that the light ends and is quite pronounced enough to show color, then someone should at least start there with that picture. It is all science then about that picture, and not that it can be faked, but how it ended up being that way if it is a fake, rather than a natural picture. To me, a flash does not explain it, nor any light shining, nor anything else, and yes, I have taken pictures in the dark, and all of that. Now, without trying out every camera, or video camera that can take a snap shot, then the easy way to explain it all is that it is a fake. Gravity is not the main issue here, but also the light of the picture. Whichever way one thinks, why would a person go through all the trouble of producing one, and have all that time when you would think that there are an infinite number of things a person could do, and would do, except think of all of this?

It simply like Quantum Physics may not make logical sense, and still it all still points to science in the end. Why does it all point to science in the first place?

Because it is time travel?
Because no one has anything else to talk about?
Because it is on this forum?

I do not intend to be considered a fool either way, even though I may be actually!

Any one can give an explanation for about anything except the math and equations that scientists are doing, except for the brain wave patterns of people like Jane Fonda and some others. Science does not seem to be able to explain those type of patterns, either!

I know the excuse is given that scientists do not think that time travel can be done, that is why some of them think about it. What happens then? Oh, we do conceive of a method of time travel? I thought those scientists said that it could not happen, except in the far future. Then what will be said by those scientists --- "Well, we did not think so!" or "Well, it happened!" or "Well, we were wrong!"

Must be a fourth world banana Republic or something that this world is!
Still it will all be more science, in the end!

The end result of all this thinking is that deep-down, these type of people think that the world will not make it -- in the end -- due to politics or something else, and even they can not see how they think?

I doubt it!
One day this, the next day that. !!!!!!
So, all of us are traveling through SpaceTime and still to me, it is all "Time"!

So much for the chit-chat then!

 

[Hercules]

The liberties and assumptions you make about the Titor story are closer to ramblings than the Titor story itself.

I did not PROMISE that the Titor story would come TRUE, DID I?

This is a forum for those who beleive TT would be a reality. I also believe that one day we will Travel to the past and BREAK the single-Worldline theory(I always HATE the single-Worldline theory). /ttiforum/images/graemlins/mad.gif

 

[RainmanTime]

I did not PROMISE that the Titor story would come TRUE, DID I?

Of course you didn't, nor did I imply that you did. However, you DO seem to portray the demeanor of a person who REALLY wants to take his story seriously, even to the point of ignoring science sometimes.

I also believe that one day we will Travel to the past and BREAK the single-Worldline theory(I always HATE the single-Worldline theory).

Well, I agree with you there, and so does my own theory for the structure of Time. The single worldline theory has the problem of the grandfather paradox. This must be addressed, and multiple worldline theories do address it quite nicely (there is no paradox). However, where I disagree with Titor (and others) is in the thought that there are INFINITE worldlines. It is my belief, and a basic premise of my theory of the structure of Time, that there are only a finite number of worldlines that is dependent upon the total number of observers (i.e. physical beings that can accept sensory inputs, reason about them to construct a discrete worldview, and react to them to change their local environment).

RMT

 

[RainmanTime]

Doing Donuts In Your Car!

Hey Herc,

There you go. That shows your anger against this type of approach. Do you expect them to create Donut-shaped singularities DIRECTLY?

BTW, I think I've mentioned to you before that I am not against the donut (toroid) shape as a key geometric aspect. In fact, it is the basis of the 3,10 Torus Knot that Stan Tenen has defined and described at his Meru website. And this is related to my descriptions of the dynamic tensor situation of the Inward and Outward Spiral Energy Patterns. In fact, the intersection of opposing Inward and Outward 3-D spiral funnel shapes (as with the Merkaba configuration) defines a toroidal energy pattern around the outside of the central Pole created by the intersection of these two spiral forms.

So I am quite onboard with toroidal geometry. I am just wholly unconvinced that these will be created at CERN, as Titor claimed. And I do not think they will allow us to travel through Time in the more romantic sense which people tend to think of TT. You will not be able to retain your current physical form if you wish to travel through Time. That is because Time is not Linear as we seem to perceive it and think of it. Time is Non-Linear... just like Mass and Space are also Non-Linear. Each is a Non-Linear element of a 3x3 Matrix.

The Merkaba is the only workable configuration for a Time machine. The person who sits in the middle of the Merkaba field, and wishes to travel through Time, must realize that they will give up their current form, their current life, and their current body in order to travel to another Time.

And I'm sorry to burst people's (Hubble?) bubble, but you will NOT be able to return to THIS body at or before THIS Linear Time of your life if you travel BACK in Time from your current Energy state. IOW, you can travel to your current past, with respect to your current body. But you can only return to this body's worldline at a Linear Time AFTER the point where you decided to travel back in Time on this worldline. Get it? Linear Time still progresses in this, your current wordline, even after you decide to go back in Time. Other people's lives still go on without you.

Now that makes scientific sense, don't you think?

If you don't think so, I can explain in terms of energy equations. /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif
RMT

 

[creedo299]

Re: Doing Donuts In Your Car!

Rainman, access to RaonmanTOL is erased.

So the actions as how you relate to John Titor, have been blocked.

Do we have to go to web archival, to get tredods of what you had blocked off, under your say, as RainmanTOL?

 

[RainmanTime]

Re: Doing Donuts In Your Car!

So the actions as how you relate to John Titor, have been blocked.
Do we have to go to web archival, to get tredods of what you had blocked off, under your say, as RainmanTOL?

Creeds: You need to investigate deeper. The registration Time of RainmanTOL would indicate that this is not the right username.

Rains

 

[Hercules]

Re: Doing Donuts In Your Car!

I am just wholly unconvinced that these will be created at CERN, as Titor claimed.

No. Titor did nor claim donuts will be created at CERN. He claimed the BASICS of TT start at CERN and GE manufactures the Time Machine some 30 years later.

If you see the history of computers, first they used vacuum tubes, with transistors and semiconductors came LSI and then VLSI which led to the invention of Laptops and Palmtops.

I don’t understand why you expect them to create donut shaped singularities in the FIRST step. First they find a way to create microsingularities, and then explore it.

Through trial and error, and although they are quite heavy, hot and capable of putting out a great deal of energy (300 - 500 megawatts), it's discovered that these microsingularities can be electrified and captured. It is also interesting to note at this point that electrified singularities also have two event horizons. By spinning these various microsingularities, a localized Kerr field is created.
By using two microsingularites in close proximity to each other, it is possible to create, manipulate and alter the Kerr fields to create a Tipler gravity sinusoid. This field can be adjusted, rotated and moved in order to simulate the movement of mass through a donut-shaped singularity and into an alternate world line. Thus, safe time travel.

I think I've mentioned to you before that I am not against the donut (toroid) shape as a key geometric aspect. In fact, it is the basis of the 3,10 Torus Knot that Stan Tenen has defined and described at his Meru website. And this is related to my descriptions of the dynamic tensor situation of the Inward and Outward Spiral Energy Patterns.

You are not against the donut, I said you don’t believe that donut SINGULARITIES wouldn’t allow TT. Whereas I do believe in that quite a LOT.

The Merkaba is the only workable configuration for a Time machine. The person who sits in the middle of the Merkaba field, and wishes to travel through Time, must realize that they will give up their current form, their current life, and their current body in order to travel to another Time.

And I'm sorry to burst people's (Hubble?) bubble, but you will NOT be able to return to THIS body at or before THIS Linear Time of your life if you travel BACK in Time from your current Energy state. IOW, you can travel to your current past, with respect to your current body.

No, I don’t believe that one has to give up everything except his mind to achieve TT. Then what is the difference of TT and death? No one will know whether the person actually died or Time Traveled.

And there is no practical use of such method if you are not able to return to your original state.

Why I pursue the gravity Donut and multiple worldline theory is that, it has a long term use, where, if there exist infinite Worldlines and you can access them, that is the ULTIMATE heist. Today the major problem would be over population. That is what which causes War. Going down to history we see War is a necessary evil. It is one of the methods of controlling the population, some suggest.

But if there are infinite Worldlines, and you can access it(to the past) then you get INFINITE space, then think about the next step in Technology.

 

[creedo299]

Re: Doing Donuts In Your Car! *DELETED*

Post deleted by creedo299

 

[Xcalbr8]

Re: Doing Donuts In Your Car!

Why I pursue the gravity Donut and multiple worldline theory is that, it has a long term use, where, if there exist infinite Worldlines and you can access them, that is the ULTIMATE heist. Today the major problem would be over population. That is what which causes War. Going down to history we see War is a necessary evil. It is one of the methods of controlling the population, some suggest.

But if there are infinite Worldlines, and you can access it(to the past) then you get INFINITE space, then think about the next step in Technology.

Lol. Over population causing war. That's funny.
Gravity 'doughnut' theory, admit it, you're just jumping on a bandwagon you truly have no idea about. You need to do the investigation for yourself, and come up with a theory that cast iron fits, not some halfbaked 'net' theory, thought up by fringe nerds.
But if there are infinite worldlines, there'll be people to inhabit most of these wordlines, I already know of one, don't you? And if it were possible to access these worldlines, don't you think somebody from another worldline would have visited us already? And don't say Titor, that has not been proven. I would certainly be a bit miffed if people started pouring through some rift into my worldline for example, because there is 'no room' in their world.

 

[Hercules]

Re: Doing Donuts In Your Car!

I would certainly be a bit miffed if people started pouring through some rift into my worldline for example, because there is 'no room' in their world.

I said “past” of another Worldline. If you think deeper, I meant the time before civilization. Now for example, there is OIL crisis today. If you want Oil, you may get it from another Worldline, or rather any other resources. When there is no one in the PAST, who will question if someone takes control of it.

 

[RainmanTime]

Re: Doing Donuts In Your Car!

I said “past” of another Worldline. If you think deeper, I meant the time before civilization. Now for example, there is OIL crisis today. If you want Oil, you may get it from another Worldline, or rather any other resources. When there is no one in the PAST, who will question if someone takes control of it.

Wow, Herc. I would submit that maybe it is YOU who needs to be the one to think deeper, because it took me about 10 seconds to figure out a problem with your thinking above:

If you go and rob oil from a past worldline, it really doesn't matter if anyone is there in that worldline to use it. You are essentially robbing that oil from LATER in that worldline, and you would never be able to tell if you were actually robbing it from OUR worldline in this time! Who will question if someone takes the oil from the past? WE WILL, HERE, IN OUR PRESENT! While we cannot really "question" the action, there is no doubt of the impact of such a scheme as you present.

Personally, I think you've got some dangerous ideas. From the above it would seem like your ideas would seek to expand the resource wars we have in our own worldline to other times. Is that really smart?

RMT

 

[RainmanTime]

Re: Doing Donuts In Your Car!

Herc,

I don’t understand why you expect them to create donut shaped singularities in the FIRST step. First they find a way to create microsingularities, and then explore it.

Do you really want me to pick apart this logic? I can, if you like. And I will use your own words and logic (and those of Titor's) to do it. /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I said you don’t believe that donut SINGULARITIES wouldn’t allow TT.

Correct, not TT in the way people like to fantasize about it. The laws of Energy simply will not allow it to happen. We've been through this before, and I still don't think you understand the basics of how Energy is a 3-way manifold of Mass, Space, and Time. If you want to alter one (say, Time) then you must give on the other two. If you do not, you will violate the Conservation of Energy law.

Then what is the difference of TT and death? No one will know whether the person actually died or Time Traveled.

You did not read what I wrote. I did not claim that you cannot come back at all. I qualified it as saying you cannot return to your CURRENT Time and Energy state. It is my belief that you CAN come back to a LATER Energy state... IOW a point in the future from the point in Time where you chose to go backwards in Time. Clocks do not stop running in the "present" once you leave for the past in your time machine. So while you are in the past, the present worldline keeps moving (universe keeps expanding). When you decide to come back towards your original present, you will only be able to re-manifest (physically) at some delta-Time (linear time) in the future from when you first departed. This is quite different from death, and I hope you see that now.

And there is no practical use of such method if you are not able to return to your original state.

I believe you used such a statement ("no practical use") when we were discussing the Faster-Than-Light theory of passive time travel. I immediately answered and gave you practical uses for passive time travel, but you ignored them and never responded. I can also give you practical uses for this form of Time Travel, but before I do I would like to know if you really want the answer, of if you will just ignore it like the last time!

Why I pursue the gravity Donut and multiple worldline theory is that, it has a long term use

Only if it works. If it is an incorrect theory, then it has no value. Again, I do not see you being very scientific about this. Rather, it sounds more like you are dreaming and hoping. That's fine if you want to do that, but I just caution it can (and has) lead you down some dead-end paths. Again, speaking strictly scientifically! /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif

RMT