Thread Split: A different kind of time travel
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RainmanTime
Super Moderator
Re: Time Travelers From The Past
Perhaps answering a question with another question might give some hints about what I think might be the case here?
What form of energy determines our arrow of time (i.e. sets causality of observation)? or...
What metric is invariant in all reference frames?
RMT
Perhaps answering a question with another question might give some hints about what I think might be the case here?
What form of energy determines our arrow of time (i.e. sets causality of observation)? or...
What metric is invariant in all reference frames?
RMT
RainmanTime
Super Moderator
Re: Time Travelers From The Past
Did I say one would?
Trust me, I do not think you are "there" yet. I suggest you not only study, but engage yourself towards initiation, in any of the Hermetic Traditions. For it is in attempting to explain things at a level of "human reason" where the power available to humans to create the environment around them disintigrates.
This is not a matter of any reasoning I have done. It is a matter of experiences I have participated in that have convinced me there is much beyond the fallible human ability to reason. In fact, it is the human's insistence on "reasoning logically", as opposed to acting, that permits one to deviate from the scientific method and thereby convince themselves of things that are simply fallacy. It is the difference between "try" and "do".
Study Crowley.
RMT
Did I say one would?
Trust me, I do not think you are "there" yet. I suggest you not only study, but engage yourself towards initiation, in any of the Hermetic Traditions. For it is in attempting to explain things at a level of "human reason" where the power available to humans to create the environment around them disintigrates.
This is not a matter of any reasoning I have done. It is a matter of experiences I have participated in that have convinced me there is much beyond the fallible human ability to reason. In fact, it is the human's insistence on "reasoning logically", as opposed to acting, that permits one to deviate from the scientific method and thereby convince themselves of things that are simply fallacy. It is the difference between "try" and "do".
Study Crowley.
RMT
Re: Time Travelers From The Past
Aerohead asked what form one would take while timetraveling. You said what metric is invariant at all reference pionts which I thought is (the speed of) light. So I inferred that you thought one would take the form of light while time traveling. Then I asked why you thought that. Is that not how you understood what happened?
Are you saying I'm not smart enough to comprehend your answer?
Yeah, I know there are more ways to come to an answer than to "reason" through it but it is not an unacceptable way when there are no alternatives availible is it? Since I doubt you preformed an expirement that sent a person through time, and think you are smarter than to just sit up one day and say "people turn into ------ when they time travel" and think it is right, I'm just wondering why you think people would turn into whatever when they time travel.
Aerohead asked what form one would take while timetraveling. You said what metric is invariant at all reference pionts which I thought is (the speed of) light. So I inferred that you thought one would take the form of light while time traveling. Then I asked why you thought that. Is that not how you understood what happened?
Are you saying I'm not smart enough to comprehend your answer?
Yeah, I know there are more ways to come to an answer than to "reason" through it but it is not an unacceptable way when there are no alternatives availible is it? Since I doubt you preformed an expirement that sent a person through time, and think you are smarter than to just sit up one day and say "people turn into ------ when they time travel" and think it is right, I'm just wondering why you think people would turn into whatever when they time travel.
ruthless
Rift Surfer
Re: Time Travelers From The Past
id like to think i know what he means, and ill just throw my two cents out there. ray can correct me if i am wrong.
its not that your not smart enough. you seem like a pretty brilliant fellow. i think its more like, and please dont take offense, your not deep enough, yet.
from reading the posts, it looks like you have the academic smarts all day, but sometimes a man has to walk through the fog before he can see the view. the stuff he is talking about, rationality goes out the window, and you must draw from your own experiences.
"the snake, the rat, the cat and the dog. how are you going to see them if your living in the fog?" - one mans battle
id like to think i know what he means, and ill just throw my two cents out there. ray can correct me if i am wrong.
its not that your not smart enough. you seem like a pretty brilliant fellow. i think its more like, and please dont take offense, your not deep enough, yet.
from reading the posts, it looks like you have the academic smarts all day, but sometimes a man has to walk through the fog before he can see the view. the stuff he is talking about, rationality goes out the window, and you must draw from your own experiences.
"the snake, the rat, the cat and the dog. how are you going to see them if your living in the fog?" - one mans battle
ruthless
Rift Surfer
RainmanTime
Super Moderator
Re: Time Travelers From The Past
It is, but when he asked about "what form would someone take", the...errrr....form /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif of the question is inconsistent with what we are talking about. I have already said that people will not physically travel through time in the sense of their physical body. Yes, the speed of light is involved, but no it is not anything like "your body turns into light". Rather, if your body (made of matter) were to be able to travel at the speed of light, it would no longer be mass, it would be pure energy, ala light (but not light).
I should remind you that this conversation is centered in metaphysics. I do not pretend for this to be scientific. These are my beliefs based on my examinations and experiences with respect to spiritual topics. With that, let's continue.
Absolutely not. If you inferred that, then I am sorry. What I am saying relates to experiential knowledge obtained by "walking a specific path", or IOW "doing what it takes to become an initiate of a Hermetic Order." It is fairly common for someone who has "been there and done that" to know when they are interacting with someone else who has experienced these things.
Perhaps KerrTexas can help explain what I am talking about here. He is better at relaying these topics than I am, and he is another one of those people who has "been there and done that."
And this is the problem: People always want to talk about "what they turn into" as if they will just change from a person into am amoeba or something. Actually, time travel is (and will be) about transcending the mundane "Matrix of Massive SpaceTime" (my term) that we live in and relate to each other in. This is precisely why it is so difficult to talk about this as if it were walking down the street to buy a jug of milk. But let me try another tactic...
You are more than just a bunch of atoms. You are a spiritual being every bit as much as you are a physical being. The two pieces comprise the integrated you. And here is the "secret" about the integrated you with respect to linear time; You already exist across all time. You simply do not realize this because of the limitations of the physical part of you. For example: Do you remember any part of your past before your birth? Probably not. But maybe you do remember bits and pieces. Most people do not, because there is a "veil" that separates you in this timeframe from you in past (and future) timeframes. And if you were able to connect across all time without your mind and spirit being prepared for it, the you of the here and now would flip out completely. This is why Hermetic initiations are so important.
So think of it like this: Rather than "turn into something else" for you to "travel in time" it will require you transcending the individual natures of Mass, Space, and Time all at the same "time", if you will. The result is that "you" will have the view of the continual time track of "you" across all time. And in some timeframes "you" would not necessarily be existing as a human or other sentient being of this level of awareness. Some spiritual traditions speak of something called an "Akashic Record". This is also hard to describe but think of it as the sum total of all events (where events are inscribed in Massive SpaceTime as objects, motion, and the passage of what we know of as linear time).
OK, that's it. I tried. But as I said, this is not something that you can speak and reason about. it is something that must be experienced, and it takes training and progression to be able to experience that which is beyond Massive SpaceTime.
RMT
It is, but when he asked about "what form would someone take", the...errrr....form /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif of the question is inconsistent with what we are talking about. I have already said that people will not physically travel through time in the sense of their physical body. Yes, the speed of light is involved, but no it is not anything like "your body turns into light". Rather, if your body (made of matter) were to be able to travel at the speed of light, it would no longer be mass, it would be pure energy, ala light (but not light).
I should remind you that this conversation is centered in metaphysics. I do not pretend for this to be scientific. These are my beliefs based on my examinations and experiences with respect to spiritual topics. With that, let's continue.
Absolutely not. If you inferred that, then I am sorry. What I am saying relates to experiential knowledge obtained by "walking a specific path", or IOW "doing what it takes to become an initiate of a Hermetic Order." It is fairly common for someone who has "been there and done that" to know when they are interacting with someone else who has experienced these things.
Perhaps KerrTexas can help explain what I am talking about here. He is better at relaying these topics than I am, and he is another one of those people who has "been there and done that."
And this is the problem: People always want to talk about "what they turn into" as if they will just change from a person into am amoeba or something. Actually, time travel is (and will be) about transcending the mundane "Matrix of Massive SpaceTime" (my term) that we live in and relate to each other in. This is precisely why it is so difficult to talk about this as if it were walking down the street to buy a jug of milk. But let me try another tactic...
You are more than just a bunch of atoms. You are a spiritual being every bit as much as you are a physical being. The two pieces comprise the integrated you. And here is the "secret" about the integrated you with respect to linear time; You already exist across all time. You simply do not realize this because of the limitations of the physical part of you. For example: Do you remember any part of your past before your birth? Probably not. But maybe you do remember bits and pieces. Most people do not, because there is a "veil" that separates you in this timeframe from you in past (and future) timeframes. And if you were able to connect across all time without your mind and spirit being prepared for it, the you of the here and now would flip out completely. This is why Hermetic initiations are so important.
So think of it like this: Rather than "turn into something else" for you to "travel in time" it will require you transcending the individual natures of Mass, Space, and Time all at the same "time", if you will. The result is that "you" will have the view of the continual time track of "you" across all time. And in some timeframes "you" would not necessarily be existing as a human or other sentient being of this level of awareness. Some spiritual traditions speak of something called an "Akashic Record". This is also hard to describe but think of it as the sum total of all events (where events are inscribed in Massive SpaceTime as objects, motion, and the passage of what we know of as linear time).
OK, that's it. I tried. But as I said, this is not something that you can speak and reason about. it is something that must be experienced, and it takes training and progression to be able to experience that which is beyond Massive SpaceTime.
RMT
RainmanTime
Super Moderator
Re: Time Travelers From The Past
Hi ruthless and welcome back!
/ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif I understand what you are saying. But in this discussion above we are not talking about building or doing anything in the physical realm. But even beyond the physical realm, it requires training of sorts, especially if we are still "stuck" in our physical bodies. This is what Hermetic training and initiation focuses on. It helps one develop their inherent ability to transcend physicality.
Very esoteric. Hard to discuss. But it is more about mind than it is about body or anything physical.
RMT
Hi ruthless and welcome back!
/ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif I understand what you are saying. But in this discussion above we are not talking about building or doing anything in the physical realm. But even beyond the physical realm, it requires training of sorts, especially if we are still "stuck" in our physical bodies. This is what Hermetic training and initiation focuses on. It helps one develop their inherent ability to transcend physicality.
Very esoteric. Hard to discuss. But it is more about mind than it is about body or anything physical.
RMT
RainmanTime
Super Moderator
Re: Time Travelers From The Past
Yes, it is very much like that, thanks ruthless! And it is like this is a very specific way:
The Hebrew Hermetic traditions are known by the terms Qabalah (Kabbalah). The teachings of Qabalah say that one can really only be receptive of the precepts behind it after passing a certain physical age, which relates to collections of many life experiences and maturing even beyond just the physical maturation of the teen years.
But as you indicate, ruthless, it is more than just an age thing. Once you go through the processes, lessons, and experiences involved in Hermetic initiations, you "become" something different. Those experiences "season" the initiate in a much deeper way than just the physical and social maturations that come with aging.
While everyone usually achieves the maturation that come just with life experiences, only those who commit to learning and experiencing Hermetic knowledge will achieve the state of being that will allow "travel through time".
RMT
Yes, it is very much like that, thanks ruthless! And it is like this is a very specific way:
The Hebrew Hermetic traditions are known by the terms Qabalah (Kabbalah). The teachings of Qabalah say that one can really only be receptive of the precepts behind it after passing a certain physical age, which relates to collections of many life experiences and maturing even beyond just the physical maturation of the teen years.
But as you indicate, ruthless, it is more than just an age thing. Once you go through the processes, lessons, and experiences involved in Hermetic initiations, you "become" something different. Those experiences "season" the initiate in a much deeper way than just the physical and social maturations that come with aging.
While everyone usually achieves the maturation that come just with life experiences, only those who commit to learning and experiencing Hermetic knowledge will achieve the state of being that will allow "travel through time".
RMT
ruthless
Rift Surfer
Re: Time Travelers From The Past
one of the last times i was talking to kerr, we were talking about this same thing. he said i stated alot of stuff from qabalah, yet i know nothing about it. it definitely has got my curiosity. ill have to read up on it. got any good links you could point me in the right direction with?
ive gotta ask. are you there yet? if you are not, i think your very close.
one of the last times i was talking to kerr, we were talking about this same thing. he said i stated alot of stuff from qabalah, yet i know nothing about it. it definitely has got my curiosity. ill have to read up on it. got any good links you could point me in the right direction with?
ive gotta ask. are you there yet? if you are not, i think your very close.
RainmanTime
Super Moderator
Re: Time Travelers From The Past
Reminding that we are speaking metaphysically here
In my opinion, the concept of "separation" is a matter of context. Einstein showed us with relativity that "separation of events in time" is subjective. (Twighlight brought this up recently). For example: are ruthless and RainmanTime truly separate? Well, at the context of our bodies and how they relate to each other, yes we are. But at the level of context of our planet, no we are not. We are both part of the whole we call planet earth. (From a systems viewpoint we might say that you and I are individual instances of a subsystem called humanity).
In the same way, we can identify a context where mind and body are separate. And we can also identify a context where they are just two subsystems of a larger whole. I call that larger whole "the integrated you". I also like to use the analogy of "Think of your body as the hardware and your mind as the software. The HW and SW put together is the entire system of you." /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif
All my opinion, of course.
RMT
Reminding that we are speaking metaphysically here
In my opinion, the concept of "separation" is a matter of context. Einstein showed us with relativity that "separation of events in time" is subjective. (Twighlight brought this up recently). For example: are ruthless and RainmanTime truly separate? Well, at the context of our bodies and how they relate to each other, yes we are. But at the level of context of our planet, no we are not. We are both part of the whole we call planet earth. (From a systems viewpoint we might say that you and I are individual instances of a subsystem called humanity).
In the same way, we can identify a context where mind and body are separate. And we can also identify a context where they are just two subsystems of a larger whole. I call that larger whole "the integrated you". I also like to use the analogy of "Think of your body as the hardware and your mind as the software. The HW and SW put together is the entire system of you." /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif
All my opinion, of course.
RMT
ruthless
Rift Surfer
Re: Time Travelers From The Past
i personally believe the mind, body, and soul must become one to achieve enlightenment. i believe you must strip away all layers of inner lies before you can even attempt to look at things honestly and accurately.
if the mind becomes the body, well, we all know what our minds can do. some people have amazing spirit, yet have disease and are ill. just imagine how healthy these people could be if they transposition their spirit with their body.
thats just my opinion in a nutshell.
i personally believe the mind, body, and soul must become one to achieve enlightenment. i believe you must strip away all layers of inner lies before you can even attempt to look at things honestly and accurately.
if the mind becomes the body, well, we all know what our minds can do. some people have amazing spirit, yet have disease and are ill. just imagine how healthy these people could be if they transposition their spirit with their body.
thats just my opinion in a nutshell.
RainmanTime
Super Moderator
Re: Time Travelers From The Past
ruthless,
You aren't butting in on anything, bud. You are part of the landscape here at TTI. Or maybe "part of the system"!
This same knowledge is codified in many different cultural traditions. Qabalah is the Hebrew variant. Freemasonry is the the bigger aspect of what is called the Western Mystery Tradition. Twighlight spoke of the Vedic traditions. You may have learned about this in any number of ways, and some of it is very likely inherent to that part of you that exists across all time. In fact, I know it is! You are channeling pieces of yourself from other time tracks.
I have several. But each person is different, and so each person may find one way "better" than another. Let me do a little meditating, and perhaps that will give me some clues about which ones you might enjoy (and be more effective) for you. /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif
It is very very difficult to "get there" if by "there" you mean being able to string the ENTIRE time track together and experience it while maintaining the corporeal body. Very few people attain that, and they are deemed "masters" (some traditions have numbers and letters to designate the initiation level). So no, I am not "there" by any means. But I have progressed further than I ever thought I would in this life. On several occasions I have "joined" my current timetrack to my last timetrack and gotten fleeting, but exceedingly clear, glimpses of who I was. A result of these experience is that I not only know who I was, but I have put in perspective the experiences of that life and how they are directly relevant to what I am doing in this time track.
I have had small breakthoughs into a future time track. But it is MY time track, and it has only been bits. And those bits are only relative to me and what I am here to accomplish in this life. Hence, you will never hear me claiming "I went astral to the future and OMG civilization is effed" like a certain HDR user we know!
You can't simply use a widget to "get there". It don't work that way.
RMT
ruthless,
You aren't butting in on anything, bud. You are part of the landscape here at TTI. Or maybe "part of the system"!
This same knowledge is codified in many different cultural traditions. Qabalah is the Hebrew variant. Freemasonry is the the bigger aspect of what is called the Western Mystery Tradition. Twighlight spoke of the Vedic traditions. You may have learned about this in any number of ways, and some of it is very likely inherent to that part of you that exists across all time. In fact, I know it is! You are channeling pieces of yourself from other time tracks.
I have several. But each person is different, and so each person may find one way "better" than another. Let me do a little meditating, and perhaps that will give me some clues about which ones you might enjoy (and be more effective) for you. /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif
It is very very difficult to "get there" if by "there" you mean being able to string the ENTIRE time track together and experience it while maintaining the corporeal body. Very few people attain that, and they are deemed "masters" (some traditions have numbers and letters to designate the initiation level). So no, I am not "there" by any means. But I have progressed further than I ever thought I would in this life. On several occasions I have "joined" my current timetrack to my last timetrack and gotten fleeting, but exceedingly clear, glimpses of who I was. A result of these experience is that I not only know who I was, but I have put in perspective the experiences of that life and how they are directly relevant to what I am doing in this time track.
I have had small breakthoughs into a future time track. But it is MY time track, and it has only been bits. And those bits are only relative to me and what I am here to accomplish in this life. Hence, you will never hear me claiming "I went astral to the future and OMG civilization is effed" like a certain HDR user we know!
RMT
Re: Time Travelers From The Past
I was about to comment on the hdr similarity. /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Regarding existence throughout all time, think of your name. Stand in the rain. Presently you feel only the drops hitting your head, but they then flow all the way down to your feet, altering their paths according to your form. So then is the one who stands in time.
Addressing the connection between body and mind, the focused mind will be accompanied by those of similar thoughts and mental state. Guard your thoughts because of this. Moving ions emit EM waves. EM waves interfere. Subtle entrainment takes place, and that gentle "nudge" in the back of one's mind pushes them toward similar thought sources.
One wave speaks to another and says, "I am higher than you." Then they both crash into the sea and are no more.
This will be more interesting with alcohol. :oops:
I was about to comment on the hdr similarity. /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Regarding existence throughout all time, think of your name. Stand in the rain. Presently you feel only the drops hitting your head, but they then flow all the way down to your feet, altering their paths according to your form. So then is the one who stands in time.
Addressing the connection between body and mind, the focused mind will be accompanied by those of similar thoughts and mental state. Guard your thoughts because of this. Moving ions emit EM waves. EM waves interfere. Subtle entrainment takes place, and that gentle "nudge" in the back of one's mind pushes them toward similar thought sources.
One wave speaks to another and says, "I am higher than you." Then they both crash into the sea and are no more.
This will be more interesting with alcohol. :oops: