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Terrorist attacks and John Titor



I hate to be the first one to bring this up. I've seen both sides of the John Titor (TimeTraveler_0) story. While I've been leaning toward it being a hoax, or entertaining fiction, I'm curious how the recent attacks on New York and Pentagon tie into his warnings of the future. Since apparently his posts are still not available, it may be difficult to find quotes from what he said.

He mentioned something about an increase of terrorist bombings similar to Oklahoma City but on a more common ocurrance over the next few years leading up to the election of 2004. At that point he says the nation becomes divided and enters Civil War. Eventually he says the US Capitol is moved to Nebraska (President Bush fleeing to a command center in Nebraska yesterday reminded me of this).

The question is obvious. Are we on the path to Titor's civil war, or is this just a likely coincidence? It would be interesting to take a look at what he said, if his posts can be found.

We should discuss reasons why it isn't true, as well as why it may be true. I'm not saying I beleive in this, so don't attack me--it just needed to be said.
I agree with you on one level with this topic Borgus. I hate that you brought it up again

Yes, what happened on Tuesday was horrific and unimaginable, but let's not jump on the opportunity and label it as some "what if" Titor was telling the truth -prophecy.

That would be opportunistic and presumptuous to bring up one day later. That would just make someone seem confused and needy to have a faith in something like an -I told you so- lecture from someone claiming to be from the future.

I am retired on the subject of Titor and his followers, I have more important crusades in my life to worry about this manipulator.

But if anyone is interested in an "I told you so" lecture and wish to look to weird coincidences, to point the way to an answer of the recent terrorists attacks, then I ask you consider the following.

Date 9-11-01, Flights 11, 175 & 77.

And if that hasn't shown you the big picture yet, you might want to check out my web site again.

Javier C.S.

P.S. I hope this doesn't hurt any feelings. By the way, how's film class going, mine is going pretty good

I agree with the basic idea that it is in bad taste to associate a known science fiction story with a real tragedy but I would urge everyone familiar with the story to read the site above.

It is causing a bit of a buzz and I have seen the complete postings of what he said on other sites. It now appears John Titor was right. CERN is looking to create a mini-black hole using physics that blows everything we thought we knew out of the water.

Maybe John Titor is not a profit or a time traveler. But he appears to have been something else.
I am not going to jump to any conclusion.
The reason that we are looking is to disprove it.
Congress has not declared 'war', maybe they are waiting, but it has passed by unanimous vote, so far as I understand, to leave it
to Georgy Porgy. (President Bush).
This is not right.

The local talk show host is a little angry right now, but he says "vote them out of office", all of them.

What does it take for Congress to declare 'war'?
Even if they do not know which country, and it looks like Afganistan, at least Congress could say they are thinking of 'war'.

If later they do, then that is that.
If not, then I think people in the U.S. better start thinking about what they are really doing.

As to Titor, which is not his real name, it is too early to tell.
He still could have pulled off this information off of the Internet and made up a story.

It is though getting at least more probable.
I would not jump to any conclusions yet. They may never find these 'black holes', and it may all fade away.
Yet, there still is that chance.
We will be watching and looking.
To not do so, would be stupid!
TTA, as you mentioned earlier..."I would not jump to any conclusions yet. They may never find these 'black holes', and it may all fade away. Yet, there still is that chance.
We will be watching and looking."

Perhaps you should be "Looking" at the latest information pertaining to the Wayward Black Hole spotted Staggering Through a nearby Galaxy, and passing Nearby to ours!

here's the report, and a link pertaining...

"Wayward Black Hole Staggers Through Galaxy, Passes Nearby"
(By: Robert Roy Britt, Senior Science Writer)

Conducting a bit of astronomical archaeology, researchers have dug up 43-year-old photographic evidence of an ancient black hole and used the information to learn that the object has been wandering at high speed on an odd, looping path through the Milky Way Galaxy for 7 billion years.

The study, discussed in the Sept. 13 issue of the journal Nature, represents the first measure of a black hole's movement through space, said researchers involved in the work.

The object's travels take it above and below the main plane of the galaxy, where the Sun and most other stars reside and orbit around the galactic center in relatively orderly fashion. The wayward black hole zooms along at 90 miles per second (145 kilometers per second) relative to the Earth, currently carving an arc up and over our solar system.

In pinning down the vagabond's trajectory and piecing together a picture of its past, researchers say they are adding pages to at least one chapter in the book that explains how the galaxy formed.

The object is estimated to have been around more than 2 billion years before our Sun was born, a time when the Milky Way was a toddler of a galaxy.

"We believe that hundreds of thousands of very massive stars formed early in the history of our Galaxy, but this is the first black hole remnant of one of those huge primeval stars that we've found," said lead researcher Felix Mirabel, an astrophysicist at the Institute for Astronomy and Space Physics of Argentina and the French Atomic Energy Commission.

**** "Retracing the route" ****

In a telephone interview, Mirabel explained that long ago a massive star exploded, its remaining mass imploding and forming the black hole he and his colleagues studied.

In the intervening eons, the black hole, which has a travelling companion star to feed off of, has taken an ever-changing course through the galaxy. The path has now brought the object relatively near to our Sun. At just 6,000 light-years away, it is close enough to study.

Though this black hole and all its brethren can't actually be seen, researchers examine radiation generated by violent interactions near such objects, a surrounding sphere called the "event horizon" beyond which all things, including light, become irrevocably trapped.

Mirabel said the wandering black hole just discovered is at a safe distance, and its orbit won't affect our solar system.

The probability of any similar objects ever interacting with the solar system is very remote, he said, even though he expects there are hundreds of thousands of them winging through the galaxy at odd angles.

**** "Four decades of data" ****

Determining the black hole's orbit was the first step in figuring out where it came from and how old it is.

The object, officially called XTE J1118+480, was discovered by the Rossi X-ray satellite on March 29, 2000. Mirabel and his colleagues used the National Science Foundation's Very Long Baseline Array of radio telescopes to observe it in May and July of 2000.

But the key evidence was dug up from optical images taken 43 years apart for the Palomar Observatory Sky Survey. The researchers used the object's movement during those years to calculate the orbit.

Each 230 million years, the black hole and its companion complete one trip through the galaxy, the new research shows. But because the Milky Way's mass is distributed so widely -- some in the center, some in the galactic plane, and some in a vast "halo" that surrounds the entire galaxy -- the trajectory changes slightly with each orbit, Mirabel explained.

**** "Booted out" ****

The orbit indicates that some 7 billion years ago the black hole was ejected from what astronomers call a globular cluster. These dense groupings of stars -- hundreds of thousands in each cluster -- represent some of the oldest stars in the galaxy and are frequently found in the galaxy's halo, which is otherwise sparsely populated.

Some researchers speculate that globular clusters formed shortly after the Big Bang and might help explain the formation of the universe as a whole.

"The star that preceded this black hole probably formed in a globular cluster even before our galaxy's disk was formed," Mirabel said. "What we're doing here is the astronomical equivalent of archaeology, seeing traces of the intense burst of star formation that took place during an early stage of our galaxy's development."

The newly studied black hole's wild ride likely resulted from an ejection caused by the gravitational interaction with other massive objects in the globular cluster.

Mirabel and colleague Vivek Dhawan, an astronomer at the National Radio Astronomy Observatory (NRAO) in New Mexico, say there are two other possible explanations for the black hole's strange orbit: It might have formed in the galactic plane and been gravitationally booted out; or it could have been introduced into the Milky Way when another, smaller galaxy was absorbed in a merger.

"We think it's more likely that it was gravitationally ejected from the globular cluster," Dhawan said.

**** "Packing for a picnic" ****

For snacking purposes, the travelling black hole has taken along a companion star, an object that was once large but after billions of years has been reduced to roughly one-third the size of our Sun, partially eaten and with its innards exposed.

The researchers think the black hole gravitationally enlisted its travelling buddy just prior to being ejected from the globular cluster. Ever since, it has been siphoning matter from the star as the two objects orbit each other.

Theory holds that the matter disappears forever into the intense gravitational grip of the black hole.

This particular arrangement of a star and a black hole is referred to by astronomers as a microquasar because of the violent interaction at the surface of the black hole, where strong jets of radio waves and other emissions are shot out into space.

Some microquasars emit incredibly violent winds of energy when material from the companion star smacks into the black hole. Others stream energy into space in the form of jets that race out in two opposite directions.

**** "Larger cousins" ****

Microquasars, though relatively small, have been likened to full-blown quasars, huge objects only found in the distant universe and therefore very far back in time.

Quasars, or quasi-stellar radio sources, are far more massive and energetic. They are powered by supermassive black holes that snatch all nearby matter into a colossal well of no return that can hide a mass equal to billions of stars.

In yet another black-hole configuration, a similar but less active black hole with a mass of about 2.6 million Suns is thought to sit at the center of our galaxy. Astronomers recently provided some of the best evidence to date that this object exists.

Microquasars, on the other hand, are anchored by black holes that are typically called "stellar" black holes, with a mass equal to only a handful of stars.

About a dozen microquasars have been found, mostly in the plane of the Milky Way. Some, instead of involving a black hole, are powered by a neutron star. These objects were formed from stars not quite large enough to evolve into black holes, yet they are still said to be 10 trillion times denser than steel.

Also participating in the new study were Roberto Mignani of the European Southern Observatory, Irapuan Rodrigues of the Brazilian National Research Council at the French Atomic Energy Commission, and Fabrizia Guglielmetti of the Space Telescope Science Institute in Baltimore.
Here is what I said, I mean John Titor said:

pamela: 6.what started the war? and who fought in it? who won?what countries were destroyed and what survived?

timetravel_0: Wow...that's a big question. There is a civil war in the United States that starts in 2005. That conflict flares up and down for 10 years. In 2015, Russia launches a nuclear strike against the major cities in the United States (which is the "other side" of the civil war from my perspective), China and Europe. The United States counter attacks. The US cities are destroyed along with the AFE (American Federal Empire)...thus we (in the country) won. The European Union and China were also destroyed. Russia is now our largest trading partner and the Capitol of the US was moved to Omaha Nebraska.

As you can see, nothing about terrorism was said. The CIA report which was recently released led to the whole formulation of the john titor background story.
Enough, all of you. This is certainly not going to clear up anything.

It is very early to speculate on anything. And we are all sounding paranoid as we post about John, and what he said.

What’s happened is not an invitation to see if he’s real.

Can’t some of you just give this a rest?

This is why I said, I hate that this was brought up again…

Ever since I came to these message boards, there has always been 2 principles I’ve always followed:

1) Do something about fanaticism, i.e. cults, lies, greed and hidden agendas.
2) Educate others that TimeTravel is unethical.

And in light of the very recent tragedies, I see that most have not gotten the clue yet. There are still those that would welcome the idea of a TimeTraveler who some of you believe had some information about Tuesday’s attack and our future. You turn to his words like a gospel, as if what he said was real or will be.

You should be ashamed of your selves, this is not an appropriate time to be doing this.

Common sense can tell you that.

Why not have a real dialogue, like they do in the news. You don’t hear them stating it’s the End of the World, Nastradamus, or a TimeTraveler told them prediction. They speak about the facts, and how this will impact all of our lives to come.

Not everything has to be a topic about Titor. That’s for mindless people who have no life, who think of him as their prophet, and everything must revolve around him.

That just shows people’s true character, at a time like this.

I’ll repeat it again, this Tuesdays tragedy is not an invitation to be speaking about this. It’s very bad taste and doesn’t look good to who’s saying it. Please let’s be considerate for the families who lost loved ones, and not mock their day of grief with silly predictions from an opportunist.

Javier C.
Javier,The only one truly fanatical about John is YOU.
You just cant stop attacking him whereever you see his name.
You truly amaze me.You are a self righteous fanatic.
Let\'s give this a break.

No, you are wrong.

Just because I am opposed to liars and cheats, doesn’t make me wrong for having a higher standard of life.

Obviously you, who choose to laugh at me at a time like this, don’t think of him as a liar, you are probably a Titor fan. And take his words close to heart.

I pity you.

But blame me if you must, if what I said is the truth. It’s common sense for most who want to live a life free of manipulators and those that wish to rid this world of lies and evil. As it’s been re-affirmed this past week.

So are we to blame those victimized by Tuesday’s terrorists attack, and label them fanatics? So anyone who wants justice served, is a fanatic?

Now, you amaze me, you are the “self righteous fanatic.” You can’t stand anyone criticizing your hero John, as if we’re not suppose to because everyone should automatically believe in what he said. You don’t want others to disprove what he’s said, because that would crush you (obviously). You can’t even post your real name, because your afraid that others will be in disbelief that it’s really you saying those words.

Forgive me, but you brought this upon your self. I didn’t attack anyone, you did. I merely had to clear things up.

Javier C.
I did not say I was John Titor.
It should have read:
Here is what I say, I mean John Titor said:

I was clarifying the distinction between what I was posting and what this titor character had posted earlier.

John Titor was not a time traveller. He was a person who saw the recent CIA report for the 2015. This started him on his idea that he was from the future. It is no coicidence that his story was detailed to the year 2015 and then not much detail there after. He said he was from 2035 or whatever, but he never really provided as much detail about that as he did about the earlier time period. I also point out that at first Titor was saying he would be returning to his time, then I pointed out that he said zero divergence was not possible and he could not return to his exact time. His story fell apart.

As far as you having secret words if you are in danger, gesh, give me a break. haha
And anyway, I was pointing out he never ever made any claim of terrorism in the united states. Not on this board. I checked the records. The only hit on terrorism and New York was in the story from the post, which was about 3 months in advance of the event, "another time traveller stock in our time!"
Trott: I agree that John Titor was an excellent researcher but his "story" was out nearly a year before the CIA report. In addition, he appears to be right about CERN and their discovery or work on artificial black holes. He picked the right location and time almost a year ago.

It's interesting that the very things that could prove his story are ture are turned against it as coincidences or proof that he had access to top secret information that no one else could see.

In addition, I've been following his odd science and physics statements and they seem to be unfolding pretty close to what he desrcibed also. I wouldn't write off the zero divergance just yet.

Below is the text of what John said and the NY times article that came out a few days ago. When you think about it, its amazing we believe anything anyone says.


On your world line, in about a year or so, the particle accelerator at CERN will "continue" with their very high energy experiments. They will create a very mysterious new particle that appears to evaporate very quickly in a powerful flash of X-rays and Gamma radiation. "Later" they will conclude that what they are seeing are very small naked singularities or
microsingularities as first theorized by Hawking.

September 11, 2001

Physicists Strive to Build a Black Hole

To see black holes, those gravitational whirlpools that suck in matter and even light, you need not just a powerful telescope but a bit of imagination. You can't observe the holes themselves, just the bad effects they have on their neighborhoods: gobs of stellar matter screaming out radiation as they are pulled toward what appears to be an omnivorous, bottomless pit.

It is comforting to think that something so voracious is so far away. But there are times when physicists wish that they could take a closer look. Some of the newest ideas in high-energy physics suggest that this may soon be possible. The next generation of particle accelerators, like the Large Hadron Collider, which is under construction at CERN, the European physics center near Geneva, may be able to produce miniature black holes on demand. Some particle physicists say they may be in a better position than the cosmologists to establish, once and for all, that black holes are real.

"Future colliders could become black hole factories," said Dr. Steven B. Giddings, a physicist at the University of California at Santa Barbara. If some recent theories turn out to be right, the effect would be far from subtle, with one tiny black hole popping into existence every second and harmlessly disappearing with an unmistakable burst of energy.

"Black hole production should light up the detectors like Christmas trees," Dr. Giddings said.

Dr. Greg Landsberg, a Brown University physicist who also works at the Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory in Batavia, Ill., is hoping to give the astronomers a run for their money. "Despite what cosmologists like to tell the general public," he said, "there is no compelling evidence that they have seen a single black hole. There will essentially be a competition to see who finds a black hole first."

Cosmologists consider the case for black holes to be more persuasive all the time. Just last week, they announced strong new evidence that one lurks at the core of the Milky Way. But being able to create and manipulate black holes in an accelerator would make them seem more palpable and open up new theoretical terrain to explore.

Miniature black holes mark a point where the theory of gravity, called general relativity, comes together with quantum mechanics, which describes nature's other forces. Artificial black holes could be used to test ideas about merging the two disciplines into the long-sought Theory of Everything.

"We've been trying for a century, and we still don't fully understand black holes," said Dr. Andrew Strominger, a physicist at Harvard. "If there is some possibility we actually could make them in an accelerator lab and watch what they do, that would be just fantastic. This could guide us toward understanding the fundamental mystery of how quantum mechanics and general relativity fit together."

The experiments will also be used to explore one of the most jarring ideas in contemporary physics, that the universe consists of hidden dimensions, beyond the three we call home. According to the new theories, a reserve of extremely strong gravity lies dormant within the other dimensions. If physicists could tap that wellspring, they might be able to smash subatomic particles together so hard that they form black holes. If so, that in itself would attest to the possibility that the extra dimensions are real.

"It would be not just a smoking gun but a smoking cannon," said Dr. Landsberg, of Brown.

Out in the cosmos, black holes are created when stars burn out and collapse. As a star becomes denser and more compact, its gravitational field intensifies, causing it to contract even more. Smaller stars reach a point where gravity can compress them no further. But if the star is very large to begin with, so much mass becomes concentrated into so small a volume that a threshold is passed. The star becomes overwhelmed by its own gravity and goes right on collapsing, pulling in everything that falls into its "event horizon," the boundary beyond which nothing can escape.

In theory you do not need stars to make black holes. Even two objects as small as subatomic particles would form a black hole if they were squeezed into an extremely small space. That, however, would require the energy of a particle accelerator the size of a galaxy, something that would never get through Congress.

But there may be a cost-cutting alternative, a recipe for making black holes at energies around a trillion electron-volts — within the range of the Large Hadron Collider. The plan is based on the possibility that scientists have been underestimating the full strength of gravity. Suppose that within spaces of less than a millimeter, where gravity has yet to be reliably measured, it is far more powerful. Then subatomic particles would not have to be compressed so severely before their gravity took over and sucked them into a black hole.

Why would gravity behave that way? The answer requires taking a leap of faith: when one reaches into the submillimeter realm, extra dimensions open up. And when gravity has more dimensions in which to operate, it becomes far more intense.

Imagine two particles hurtling toward a head-on collision. As the gap between them narrows, their gravitational pull on each other increases according to what is called the inverse square law. That means that each time the distance is halved, the gravitational attraction becomes four times as strong. For it to become strong enough to form a black hole, the gap would have to be narrowed to 10 to the minus 33 centimeters, a distance called the Planck length — and that would require a galactic-size accelerator.

But all that assumes that the particles are traveling in the familiar land of three dimensions. If gravity has four dimensions in which to exert itself, it obeys an inverse cube law: each time the distance between the particles is halved, the gravitational field increases eight times. In five- dimensional space, gravity increases by the fourth power, growing 16 times.

So suppose when the particles are less than a millimeter apart, they enter a space with more dimensions. Gravity would increase at a much faster clip and a black hole would open up when they were just about 10 to the minus 17 centimeters apart. That is still an inconceivably tiny gap, but it is 10 quadrillion times as large as the black hole threshold in three dimensions. And it could be reached with the energies produced by the Large Hadron Collider.

Physicists have been pondering that idea since at least 1999, when papers by Dr. Nima Arkani-Hamed of the University of California at Berkeley, Dr. Lisa Randall of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, Dr. Raman Sundrum of Johns Hopkins and other theorists suggested how gravity's full strength could be hidden inside extra dimensions.

This summer two teams of physicists — Dr. Giddings and Dr. Scott Thomas of Stanford University, and Dr. Landsberg and Dr. Savas Dimopoulos, who is also at Stanford — worked out the implications in more detail, showing that multidimensional gravity would be strong enough to produce black holes in great abundance in the next generation of particle accelerators. (The papers can be found on the Web at xxx.lanl.gov /abs/hep-ph/0106219 and xxx.lanl .gov/abs/hep-ph/0106295.)

"Somehow this had escaped attention before the two papers appeared," Dr. Landsberg said. "People had thought black hole production would be a weird and rare event."

After the Large Hadron Collider goes online in 2006, physicists will try to make black holes by slamming protons together. These particles are made of even smaller subparticles called quarks and gluons. If two of these "partons" collide to form a black hole, the result should be spectacular.

The black hole would almost immediately evaporate, sending a spherical burst of subatomic particles ballooning outward like the sparks in an aerial fireworks display. Quarks, gluons, electrons, photons — every particle in the book would be likely to appear. The odds of such a wide variety of particles accidentally arranging themselves in such a distinctive pattern are extremely low. "The probability of faking it is completely negligible," Dr. Landsberg said.

What if the theory is wrong and the black holes don't immediately disappear? Is there a danger of sucking the accelerator, the laboratory, the city of Geneva, the Swiss Alps and ultimately the whole planet into the hole? Could something like that ever qualify for an environmental impact statement?

Hoping to avoid the kind of doomsday fears aroused two years ago by the Relativistic Heavy Ion Collider at Brookhaven National Laboratory on Long Island, N.Y., physicists have done some reassuring calculations.

"There is a constant flux of ultrahigh-energy cosmic rays striking the atmosphere," Dr. Giddings said. "The same calculations that we do for the L.H.C. also predict that around 100 such black holes a year are `organically' and apparently safely produced in the earth's atmosphere in cosmic ray collisions. So if this were dangerous, we shouldn't be here to begin with."

If black holes can be manufactured and studied in captivity, physicists will be able to test ideas in the hinterlands of understanding. The black holes are so tiny that they would obey the laws of quantum mechanics, but their gravity is so powerful that they must also obey general relativity. By observing how the two theories interact, physicists could see if they were just different manifestations of a more general law.

They might even gain some insight into a conundrum known as the information paradox. A fundamental truth of quantum mechanics is that information can never disappear from the universe. But what happens when you drop an encylopedia down a black hole? When the black hole eventually disintegrates, the information would be gone.

But some physicists believe that the information must not actually vanish, that it is imprinted somehow in the pattern of radiation emitted during evaporation. By comparing the characteristics of the particles that collide to form a black hole — things like spin and charge — to the characteristics of the radiation coming out, theorists can look for some kind of subtle correlation.

The experiments may also provide clues about the number of extra dimensions and even hint at their shape and size. Mini-black holes would be like depth charges used to plumb the fathoms of a hidden world.

In fact, when accelerators reach the trillion electron-volt range, physicists may find that there is nothing to study but black holes. Anything else would be hidden inside their horizons, beyond the point of no return.

Reaching that frontier would mark a profound change in the nature of particle physics. As they go to higher and higher energies, experimenters study what happens in tinier and tinier spaces. The appearance of black holes would mark the place where the concept of size breaks down. With nothing smaller to probe, short-distance physics would come to an end.

"When I told an experimental colleague this, he didn't like it," Dr. Giddings said. "But then I pointed out to him that in this scenario high- energy physics has a bright future: the experimentalists would become the geographers of the extra dimensions."
Great, now if people could only agree to disagree instead of arguing about who's right, or more specificly becoming over zelous to judge who is wrong, instead of being optimistic and trying to bridge the gap of indifference that could develop a more meaningful theory between them, instead I see more semantics!

Can't we just all get along?
http://www.bestanimations.com/Cartoons/Simpsons/Itchy-01.gif<hr size="1" width="80%" color="#000099" align="left">"Everything you know,...is Wrong!
soon we shall all discover the truth."
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