Science and Religion do NOT mix!!

R

Raze

Temporal Novice
I am no devil worshipper, I am an atheist - Though in the views of many, that about counts me as a devil worshipper anyway
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But seriously, get a grip - Christian folklore has absolutely nothing to do with science!

In fact, religion played a large part in the reason why Europe entered the Dark Ages - Christianity became the official religion of the Roman empire, and Saint Augustine took this chance to sneer at the philosophers and scientists.

After all, science and technology is the work of the devil, is it not! And besides, the world was going to end soon anyway, so who needed science... technological advancements weren't neccessary. (note carcasm).

Thankfully there were those brave people who drove the Renaissance movement!

Because of the Dark Ages and the narrow-mindedness of the clergy, this world is technologically many centuries behind. perhaps if it weren't for the Dark ages we would be an advanced, space-faring race by now, or self-destroyed by war.

Remember, it was once sacrilege to even suggest the world was round. If the church said the world was flat it was flat. If a person into herb medicine was a witch and were to be executed, they were executed.

Of course the bible bashers have since loosened their grip on the religion enforcing whip so to speak, but it is still based all on these completely unsubstantiated beliefs.

Another reason why technology has been despised so much in the past is because of how some rock-solid foundations of Christian beliefs have been shattered by technological discoveries over the centuries.

So - how long until the very existance of god is disproved? And if Chrsitian belief is true - Gee, that must mean all the millions of people who worship other beliefs such as budhism, or ones of multi gods such as Greek and Norse mythology, those poor souls were all wrong and only Christians are right, right? Oh, of course - Because the BIBLE says so, of course its all true, how foolish of me! (note extra carcasm).

Christianity is a very selfish religion - It puts mankind before nature. I donot believe in a 'mother nature' entity as such, but more primitive cultures who see nature itself as a god I hold much more respect for.

A lot of people have faith in god simply because they believe in god. They believe in satan. They don't want to go to hell and burn. They want to go to heaven and live in paradise, don't they? Its all about hell. Nobody wants to go there so people 'brown-nose' to god and try and stay in his good books to get a ticket to the pearly gates.

As I said, I am atheist. I believe in no god. no devil. Good and evil exist only in living creatures, most predominently humans. If someone massacres a crowd that ain't the devil at work, it was that one persons insanity-striken decision. People are too scared to believe someone could do this of their own free will and blame it on old Lucifer.

Sure, churches do charities and so forth - But so what!! I can donate to charities without believing in god. I can live a decent life with morals, live my life the best I can and help others without brown-nosing god and preaching to other people.

What about all the head priests who are notorious for child abuse! These are the supposed cornerstones of religious faith in mankind, and if corruption of that extent is so high in its ranks, then the Christian faith is in big trouble. In england, statistics show a Clergyman is 10 times more likely to commit child abuse than any other person. Define hypocrisy.

I have done my homework, and believe me - There is far, far, FAR more evidence disproving the Christian beleifs than there are proving it. Don't agree with me? Take the courage and open your eyes to the real world.

I could bring up point after point - This is just the tip of the iceberg. Slag my opinion off for all I care, maybe its because you're just too scared to look into it and see the truth and commonsense?

-Raze
 
Sorry Raze,

You might have to do some more homework. CATHOLICISM was responsible for the Dark Ages--not Christianity. It was the incredibly brave deeds of the REFORMERS like Luther, Russ, Jerome, etc along with the Heugonots, Waldensians. The renaissance only enjoyed THEIR effors. If not for CHRISTIANITY'S efforts, YOU would have no freedom to BE an atheist!! Get your facts straight and then maybe we'll take your rantings a little more serious.<hr size="1" width="80%" color="#000099" align="left">Zerubbabel--The Seed of Babylon
 
Good point sonof, but my rudimenentary knowlege of history tells me that a hefty spate of witch burnings, heritic squashing, and child molestation by the Church came AFTER the reformation.

Scientific advancement came for the most part inspite of the church.

CAT speaks of earlier Greek and Roman times when science, mathmatics, religion and philosophy came under the same banner.

It is the individual vs the organization and visa versa. Always has been always will be. Debate no matter how profound or lengthy will never change the objective facts. Save your wind. You'll need it.
 
This is the problem exactly:

There are all different religions and subdivisions of these religions
either due to different cultural origins, or to suit everyones individual needs.

This should not be the case! There should only be one division of Christianity, there should only be one religion. It is crazy and ridiculous having all different beliefs or slightly different versions of the one belief, don't you think?

If people love and fear god so much, they should fitting their lives into gods rules only, not both ways. Each subdivision thinks their way is the right way. Each major religion thinks their way is the right way. Thats like sending people driving out on the highway with their own individual road-rules. There are going to be problems.

I know the point of this forum is time travel not religion. But I can't believe it when someone is dicussing time travel and all of a sudden they are talking about god and supposed facts from the bible.

Zerubbabel, please don't just shrug off my post because you think I didn't do my homework properly, I brought up many good points that you have not given a response to, and I welcome you and anyone else to do so!


-Raze
 
<font size="1" color="#FF0000">LAST EDITED ON 26-Aug-02 AT 02:31AM (EDT)</font>

nvm, this kind of debate takes forever and I don't feel like getting involved.

Tracker
 
Raze,

Since you feel I need to respond to ALL of what you said, I will do so and TRY to keep the SARCASM out of MY comments. As to your idea of ONE religion, you are going to see that fulfilled much sooner than you think! If you REALLY had eyes to see, you would see that this whole Islamic, Christian, Buddhist, Jewish attempt to draw away criticism away from the terrorist=Arab mentality is realy a ruse to develop exactly what you are talking about--a one/world religion to go along with the one/world economic system that is already in place and the one/world government that is in the process of forming but has already received de-facto power. This can only be understood in any form by studying what the BIBLE has to say and not by your ignorant(not stupid) opinions. In fact, the Bible does speak of a time yet future where ALL religions will be subjected to the LAW OF GOD that proceeeds from Mount Zion and ALL will understand and return to their own lands and follow their own customs. But this does not happen until a counterfeit system is set up to control the concience of man and his liberty to worship or not worship as he pleases. If you were TTA, you would see them as temporal manipulators. If political, you would see them as "commies", or "traitors" to freedom. Some religionists see them as U.S., U.N., Russkies or some other combination of organizations with hidden agendas. This particular post of yours shows the obvious holes in your thinking. You are using stereotypes and broad-based statements that open you up to being used by the very forces you seem to have such disdain for. There WAS true Christianity once. It is BECAUSE of its truth and power that there are so many counterfeits today. The reason for that is simply this: there are "principalities, powers and wickedness in high places" that do not want YOU to see the truth. My fight is not with flesh and blood--you are of a highly created order--higher even than the angels!! It doesn't bother me that you call yourself atheist. You have shown by your comments that you have a hatred for evil itself--especially the evil that has manifested itself through religion. With you, I have to heartily agree!! This is the most insidious evil of all and antichrist will(and is)aligns itself with a form of religion that goes against everything the Bible teaches (Fear God and give HIM the glory). Contrary to what you may think, some of us follow PRINCIPLES--not blind forces. For four years I worked with juvenile deliquents--some with the hardest of hearts and an inbred HATRED for anything religious because of the hypocrisy. Because I worked for the state, it was forbidden to me to even mention religion let alone preach it. However, by applying the principles of Christianity, I made close friends with every single child and not a SINGLE one ever returned to the institution which had a normal return rate of 60% or better! Unfortunately, the SECULAR powers-that-be realized that I was jeopardizing the funding structure by losing heads and wickedness in high places destroyed the program that was once written of by the Law Enforcement Assistance Administration(LEAA) as the most successfull program of its kind in America. All I'm trying to tell you is don't stereotype religion with "spirituality".

***But seriously, get a grip - Christian folklore has absolutely nothing to do with science!***

I could speak for hours how religion has affected science! You name the science and "it's in there". Even the "folklore" of many aboriginals contains fantastic healings and drugs that science hasn't a clue about.

***Remember, it was once sacrilege to even suggest the world was round. If the church said the world was flat it was flat. If a person into herb medicine was a witch and were to be executed, they were executed.***

The Bible clearly teaches that the world is a sphere and that it has a circuit that it travels around. This was common knowledge at one time and was lost and rediscovered. Just because a ruling clergy forbid knowledge doesn't give us the right to forbid all clergy and lump them together.

***Another reason why technology has been despised so much in the past is because of how some rock-solid foundations of Christian beliefs have been shattered by technological discoveries over the centuries***

What particular beliefs are you talking about here? Again, this sounds like a blanket statement based on stereotypical understanding or "hearsay".

***Christianity is a very selfish religion - It puts mankind before nature. I donot believe in a 'mother nature' entity as such, but more primitive cultures who see nature itself as a god I hold much more respect for***

No, Christianity puts GOD before mankind AND nature. Have you ever actually TALKED with a primitive culture who worships nature? They don't actually worship nature--they worship spirits that they see in nature--many of them maleovolent!!

***I have done my homework, and believe me - There is far, far, FAR more evidence disproving the Christian beleifs than there are proving it. Don't agree with me? Take the courage and open your eyes to the real world.***

The homework you have done is completely one-sided. If all you're looking for is evidence to DISPROVE something--all you will find is that kind of evidence. Not exactly the scientific method is it? Don't agree with me? Take the courage and open your eyes to the SPIRIT WORLD.
<hr size="1" width="80%" color="#000099" align="left">Zerubbabel--The Seed of Babylon
 
SonofBabylon,
Good show
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you showed an Atheist the way, or at least set him on the course to it.

However, I would just like to comment to what you said in regards to this united religion and reversion bit:
<<In fact, the Bible does speak of a time yet future where ALL religions will be subjected to the LAW OF GOD that proceeeds from Mount Zion and ALL will understand and return to their own lands and follow their own customs>>

Okay you sparked my interest.

How so?

<<But this does not happen until a counterfeit system is set up to control the concience of man and his liberty to worship or not worship as he pleases. If you were TTA, you would see them as temporal manipulators.>>

But with good reasons no doubt
happy.gif
.

As for the counterfeit system, I see it as the New Age movement that will be the culprits.

Given their infamous talents for putting a spin on the Christian doctrine, and popularity to those in desperate need for truth, I don’t see it dying down regardless of Christian facts and truths.

Do you?

To think that they will be no threat to the Christian faith is a naïve approach to thinking that faith alone will handle them.

What will the majority remember when we leave this life? How will things get handled? Who will remind people of the truth, and keep it going?

As the TimeTravelActivist well knows, that saying nothing to the effect that Time Travel is wrong and standing by the side of proving it day by day, ensures that at the very least my efforts and the efforts of others like me may be remembered and considered when Time Travel’s use is voted on.

But then again, this could all just be my wishful thinking, for I expect that when the time comes it will not matter what anyone or I thinks. But what the selfishness of the people will want for its survival, outweighing truth for necessity.

-TTA
 
Religion VS. Science, the battle that's been going on for ages.

I'll throw in my two cents later, it's too early for me to think over here u.u; zzzzz....

~Skye<hr size="1" width="80%" color="#000099" align="left">I'm Skye, a girl with a dream, a quest and a nightmare.
 
These are some intereseting arguments ...

I must thank you for at least half-tolerating my carcastic, somewhat cheeky approach and not casting me off as some evil-mined heretic as I thought would happen! Yes, despite being anti-religious, I am also completely against evil.

'True Satanists' *sort* of have the right idea about having individual freedom of living and thought, but unfortunately they take it to the other extreme where many do indeed worship evil.
Luckily, a majority of so-called devil-worshippers are only what you would class as 'dabblers', they usually go no further than a play with the ouija board on the weekend.

There are a very small minority who go all the way to animal, and even human sacrifice, but almost all of these very few cases are due to mental instability and not a true, sane state of mind.

I admit I like the hell image thing, (devils with horns, burning hell etc) but to me it is just a fantasy, a mythology, an image, nothing more. I donot beleive in the devil, nor do I worship him.

As long as a person does not preach their beliefs abroad and are a decent person anyway, I respect what they believe. The world will never be totally religious, and I must declare that I have always been atheist, and always will be.

You did bring up some good points in your response to my post, but to this day I still have never, ever seen or experienced the slightest thing to even suggest to me there is a divine holiness shining from above. No matter how wide I open my eyes, all I see is a cold, hard world of reality.

Its not that I refuse to believe that there is a god. If I happen to be proven wrong one day (which I SERIOUSLY doubt), then so be it - I will not reform to worshipping god, not in a long shot.
Unlike most other people, I can accept either way if we live after death or not. We get the one life here, we die, just like an eternal, sleepless dream. 'Oh well', I say! This doesn't bother me the slightest. All I ask for is that my dying days are not lingering in prolonged suffering. Once I'm gone, thats that. Death itself is nothing to me. I will just make the most of life while I've got it!

Back to the bible, I do think it is an interesting book. It has some good philosophies, and promotes good morals to yourself and others, but as for the so-called 'historical' events and the revelations etc, its all just mythology to me, a fictional story!

I will never beleive all humans came from Adam and Eve, nor that Moses parted the Red Sea, nor that Christ walked on water, though I do beleive the legend of Jesus Christ is probably based on a true man that once lived, the story of course being sensationalized in the bible to the image he is seen as now.

And if Judgement day is yet to come, god has left it far too late! There has already been more than too much suffering in this world due to war and famine, especially over the last 100 years.

Whenever something great happens to a person like their life is saved against the odds, it is called a miracle from god. Doesn't explain why a lot of the time, more often than not, miracles DON'Thappen. Many people may pray with all their hearts for a miracle to happen and it never prevails.

This is just cast off as 'gods will', because apparently 'god works in mysterious ways'. Either gods 'mysterious ways' is the reason why bad things do happen, or its the work of the devil. Nobody can seem to come to a joint decision!

Even if evil was caused by a 'devil', remember - god created the devil as Lucifer the angel, who became corrupted. That evil had to come from somewhere! So if one is to believe this whole thing, one must accept that ultimately god is the source of both good and evil, which sorta is a major contradiction.

Apparently god had a chance to destroy Lucifer as he began his evil ways. god, being the all-knowing, knew it was destiny Lucifer would be his adversary and cause of evil and suffering, but because god is supposed to be a 'loving' god he had to let Lucifer go and set about his evil ways. Bad move... Stupid move, god!

In fact, if this were all true, god would not have been stupid enough to let that happen, seriously! If this really is the case, then that means god loves lucifer more than he loves the countless innocent lives that have gone through so much undeserving suffering, torcher, and pain. What a relentless, cruel, foolish god. Not one who deserves our worship. But I don't believe any of that anyway! I suppose the bible would be a pretty boring story though if there was no conflict of evil.

But basically, as I have mentioned before, good and evil exist in the minds of each individual, in varying degrees. god and satan do not govern whether someone decides to rob a store with a gun or become a priest!

Yep, this is going waaay off on another tangent, but oh well. What's time travel again?

-Raze
 
I don't think this kind of debate is really ever worth getting into. No-one ever changes their mind under sustained attack from the other side, no matter how good the evidence. In fact, this type of 'Science vs. Religion' argument is not only a false dichotomy, but also tends to entrench the 'sides' more firmly.

I won't contribute my ten cents. (My two cents are free... see the sig.)<hr size="1" width="80%" color="#000099" align="left">"All gods are false. Faith itself is idolatry."

Iain M. Banks, _The_Crow_Road_
 
On the contrary Janus,

I found great worth in the debate. First, I saw no major mud slinging and name calling. There was some actual movement toward the neutral middle and everyone was civil to each other. To me, that's a major achievement in any scientific battle for the truth. Eventually, it may even result in some actual time-travel discussion. Perhaps it has been a common experience for some to have theists try to convince others to their side. I appreciate other sides and work towards the middle-even with other theists. Everybody has an agenda and it sometimes is really difficult to vacate my own for the general welfare. Any experience gained here is always helpful in the "real world". I enjoy other viewpoints--it inspires me!<hr size="1" width="80%" color="#000099" align="left">Zerubbabel--The Seed of Babylon
 
good point and not one i haven't considered before. i heard somewhere that the chinese had invented a steam engine before the dark ages. how long was the dark ages, 1000 years? think how much more advanced we would be now if we'd started the indusrial revolution 1000 years earlier.
 
TTA,

<<In fact, the Bible does speak of a time yet future where ALL religions will be subjected to the LAW OF GOD that proceeeds from Mount Zion and ALL will understand and return to their own lands and follow their own customs>>

***Okay you sparked my interest.
How so?***

The scripture says it best:
Micah: Chapter 4
But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the Lord shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and the people shall flow unto it. And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths; for the law shall go forth of Zion, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem. And he shall judge among many people, and rebuke strong nations afar off; and they shall beat their swords in plowshares, and their spears into pruning-hooks; nation shall not lift up a sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more. But they shall sit every man under his vine and under his fig tree; and none shall make them afraid; for the mouth of the Lord of hosts hath spoken it. For all people will walk every one in the name of his god, and we will walk in the name of the Lord our God forever and ever.

The question here is: what "law" are we talking about. In my understanding of the scripture, this law is the complete laws of science which embraces all other laws in its truth. Jesus didn't take a moment away from teaching the "law" of salvation. He could have easily opened up all the branches of science and hinted that he could do so whenever he used "nature" to teach of the kingdom. Recall in the scripture just quoted where it says that "the MOUNTAIN of the HOUSE" shall be established. Any reasonable study of this house will show that it really is a SHIP. It is even built in the FORM of a ship like Noah's Ark was. Cat has been trying to tell you all of the other "laws" involved. She has not had her mind closed to this understanding and as a result, she has learned a great deal about how any future time travel will result.

Not that it really matters, the New Age Movement is simply PART of the three-fold union of the three foul spirits like frogs which go to make war with the whole world. This falls under the SPIRITUALISM phase of the BEAST of which also has a political arm(the U.S.) and a religious arm represented by the apostate religious systems of the world headed by the Roman Catholic Church(yeah, the ones we've all been hearing about lately). Ten years ago, everybody laughed at the possibility that the U.S. could become a repressive and largely conservative Christian war machine. No one is laughing now. The treaties that many apostate religious systems are making with Rome along with the SECRET treaties between the U.S. and Rome in such diverse places such as Poland to bring down the iron curtain and challenge orthodox Christianity in the USSR, Yugoslavia which is also of an orthodox pursuasion was a particular thorn in the side of the Roman Church, the current situation in Iraq which coincidentally borders with Turkey which is the seat of Eastern Orthodoxy--and, of course, the middle east and Islamic thought which views the whole religious system as "the Great Satan"--which is not too far from the truth. The NWO is currently in place. They're just doing mopping up actions now. As the Bible says, "who can make war with the BEAST". Even the supposedly "watching" religious world which is looking for a 10-nation confederacy, has not even caught on to the 10 "zones" of the earth that are designated "economic spheres" which have no boundaries and are not constrained by national "soveriegnties". Our illustrious president now has "fast track" ability to literally "control" the trade for the entire North and South American "zone". Billions are now transferred back and forth with virtually no "internal control". This is what I mean by the "counterfeit" system that is set up before the scenario outlined in Micah. If it was not for the Bible, I think I would be an athiest of the grandest order--and probably a militant one at that. It is the Bible that has led me to whatever understanding of time travel I might have--and the hope of it in the NEAR future. The scale of human suffering going on right now BOGGLES ME!! Without exception, every single person who posts here--of whatever pursuation they may be--is appalled at the level of indifference and the crimes against each other. This stuff is all written--and is considered "birth pangs" of the planet. Woe, woe, woe to the inhabitants of the earth for the devil has come with great wrath because his time is short. You mentioned in one of your posts TTA about a "shift" of some kind in consiousness or of evergy levels. Others are feeling this too. As Shakespear would say "Something is rotten in Denmark".<hr size="1" width="80%" color="#000099" align="left">Zerubbabel--The Seed of Babylon
 
About this Renaissance period, all sorts of things were happening at once. The discovery of America, progress of fine art, metallurgy, watches, spectacles, then telescopes, which eventually all led forth to the industrial age, then the elctronic and space age, which we are still pioneering now.

What technological 'age' would we be in now if there were no Dark Ages? (and of course assuming civilization has not yet been destroyed by war!) We would have perhaps already been sending man to the moon sometime around the 1600's-1700's or even earlier, what an interesting thought.

At the same time, many people indeed thought that the devil was behind all this, and witch-hunting remained a popular sport even during the renaissance because of this.

When moveable-type printing was invented by Johannes Gutenberg around 1455, a Johann Fust (Gutenbergs financier) sued Gutenberg over unpaid loans and obtained the printing apparatus himself.

Then Fusts factories began bringing out hundreds of bibles at once, each of which should have taken months of years to produce by hand alone! Of course, added to the sulphorous smells coming from Fusts workshop where he kept the printer secret, people thought the devil was at work in there, writing bibles! Nobody could possibly imagine back then a machine that could be capable of such things.

-Raze
 
<font size="1" color="#FF0000">LAST EDITED ON 27-Aug-02 AT 01:53PM (EDT)</font>


What everyone fails to realize is that the very concept and origins of "Time Travel" was born straight out of the Bible! It is none other than the separation of the Heavenly realms from Heaven down to hell. These are the segments of light between the corporal and non corporal views.

The Bible was written some 2,000 to 3,000 years ago, by the Semitic people. For the Semitic people, the Bible is a valuable and valid source of Truth when read and understood according to the authors consciousness and heritage. The Bible must be read with an open mind, looking for the higher meaning in the stories, metaphors, and parables. To fully understand the Bible, one must understand idioms and the psychology used by those who wrote the book. Yes, God did write the Bible, through the consciousness of carnal humanity, therefore we must understand carnal humanity to understand the book.

it must be remembered that we are dealing with a power that is
like the soil of the ground, which will produce the plant when
we plant the seed. God is all we believe in! God is the First Cause, the Great I Am, the One and Only. God is Spirit or Creative Energy which is the cause of all visible things. God is all that we see and do not see. God is Love, Wisdom, Intelligence, Power, Substance and Mind. The Principle which is dependable.

I define God as, all the love there is, all the wisdom there is, all the intelligence there is, all the power there is, all the substance there is, all the truth there is. Rather than
saying all that, we just say God. But we could just as easily
say Infinite Mind, Spirit, the Universe, the One.

I believe in God, the Living Spirit Almighty, one, indestructible, absolute and self existent Cause. I believe this One manifests itself in and through all creation, but is not absorbed by its creation...

There is never any asking, begging, or supplication only ecceptance. The law of cause and effect makes it so. It is done unto us as we believe!

THEOMATICS/GEMATRIA BIBLE CODE IS A MAJOR DISCOVERY. To recent date almost twenty five years and literally thousands upon thousands of hours of comprehensive research, have since been
invested. Both by secret goverments and military and independant people. Most all of this research has been done in private. It has received minimal publicity and exposure in the media as compared to the recent "Bible Code" discoveries everybody is talking about.

Presently, there are two types of Bible codes. One is the ELS evidence (Equi distant Letter Sequences), also known as"Torah Codes." The other kind of code is "theomatics." The foundational basis for theomatics has been known for thousands of years, ever
since the time before Christ. It is commonly referred to by the term gematria. This original code in the Bible known for thousands of years but never deciphered, began to reveal itself in a major way. Mathematically and scientifically, theomatics is a much more provable phenomenon. If both the secular and Christian worlds had any true comprehension of this discovery or its implications, IT WOULD CHANGE FOREVER THE ENTIRE SCOPE OF SCIENCE AND RELIGION FOR THE REMAINDER OF THIS EARTH'S HISTORY!

In theomatics, people can learn how God has written His entire Word mathematically, because existing inside the Bible there is a
mathematical design. This design is the watermark thatreveals gd's divine authorship. No other work of literature ever written, apparently, contains anything that closely resembles theomatics. It is totally unique to the 66 books of the Bible. No existing word could be found to accurately describe this Phenomenon in the Bible.

"GD" assigned each letter and in turn each word of the Bible with a number or theomatic value. Everything in the Bible was composed and written mathematically. The implications of all this is staggering! It means that Gd the Creator, sometime ineternity past, orchestrated and planned every event mentioned in the Bible right down to the most minute detail. Every single person that was to be born, what their names were going to be, and the precise time of their birth... the time and manner that everything was to happen... and what every word in the Bible would ultimately be. Each and every word had to bespelled precisely so it would come out to its exact and pre determined numerical value, and then be placed into the text in a precise
location. All of this took place without mankind having any direct knowledge that behind earth's stage, Someone was pulling
all the strings and manipulating the entire drama.

Even though the magnitude of this discovery is just starting to unveil itself, over the centuries thousands of people, Jews and
Christians alike have speculated, believed and taught that some sort of hidden and supernatural phenomenon existed underneath the original Hebrew text of the Bible based upon the numerical values of the original Bible languages. They believed that a cipher, or key, that would unlock a deeper symbolic and spiritual meaning behind the literal words of the text, was placed there by a supernatural act of Gd, UNBEKNOWN TO THE MEN WHO ACTUALLY PENNED THE TEXT.

The computer is proving convincingly that theomatics is valid and that Gd did indeed place this supernatural phenomenon into the text. In otherwords, the numbers are not random but contain certain quantitative regularities. And there exists no natural cause or alternative explanation for this phenomenon. Only a divine Power and Mind could have placed it there. The existence of God must be accepted by faith alone. The best that theomatics can tell us is that the mind of man could not have orchestrated and written the Bible. That being true, the only possible conclusion is that "Gd" must indeed exist. What other possibility is there?

But not only does theomatics give us confirmation of the Bible's
validity from an certain standpoint. The mathematical patterns in the text will also reveal the fact that God never intended in the eternal sense that His Word be understood only by the rules of grammar and the facts of history. The words of the Bible and their literal meanings are only the outer shell.

What this numbering system that God has placed does, is brings forth the deeper meanings of scripture. In otherwords, God placed within the text of His Word a code or "hidden revelatory process" that will ultimately reveal the symbolism that exists in the old testement and for that matter, the entire Bible.

Once all of this is understood more fully we will for once and for ever arrive at determining what Gd's original intended meaning was. Theomatics takes nothing away from the literal words, but establishes the fact that Gd has protected His truth with symbolism, parables, and allegories. Theomatics completely destroys the popular fundamentalist/evangelical premise of trying to interpret everything in the Bible ONLY historically and ONLY literally.



CAT...
 
CAT,
Hmmm, a most interesting thought. It leaves very little wiggle room for the TTA to find a way of questioning how it can be man.

Luckly I believe in God and see how it can be possible.

However, that leaves to question what I have been saying for along time now, where is humanities freewill?

Could it be perhaps that all possible outcomes are and can be determined to being found out in the text of the bible, and discovering what ever alternative man may think he is making, is in fact just part of something that finds a way of being exactly what was counted on to being?

Ever do one of those math problems that ask you to pick any number, and it won’t matter what number you pick you will always come up with the same result?

Could it be perhaps that there is some sort of formula to the bible, where it’s very clever design is intended to come up with any possible outcome and cross reference how it could show that it could have known it before it happened?

Could there be a science and mathematics besides just the power of God that can explain this? A form of logic, or non-linear hypothetical that if not of this dimension but of one higher where one could see reason and truth to it pointing to a possibility that it’s man?

Let’s not throw out the possibility that man will Time Travel, and will understand truths that we have no comprehension of now. The proper alignment of such events in people’s lives that do not prove to just being coincidental, but of actual manipulation.

That truth, that some force is controlling man is not to be denied nor over looked in considering God being the ultimate answer to it. In turn it may very well be, but in all things there is a center of something suggesting activity of a malicious conscious nature.

--- --- ---
I had something more to add to this, however I can no longer recall it
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. It was good too, very thought provoking. Something that would have really sparked further interest in this idea. Only leads me to more questions and suspicion, why are my synapses failing? I am young yet deteriorating rapidly. Could what I could possibly consider be outside realms not yet considered, thus being a threat to those in power?

One of these days, I suppose we will find out
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.

-TTA
 
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Wow what a refreshing and intelligent discussion!
I am new here and came to explore my Idea I had today about sending "text message or at least Morse code" through time, using the computer and add on hardware, I can do it
forward through time (we all can ... delayed email!). But I want to send it back wards 1 day or 2. I have some ideas (thoughts) how to do this (forth coming as I hack things out).

First I am a Christian and I like discussing SCIENCE and the BIBLE. Let me say science does not take away from my faith it adds to it! Matter of fact I am thinking of building a
site on that topic.

I could go on and on and on about all the topics in this area but I think they where covered well. I respect the opinion of others if they choose not to believe in G-d it is there
choice but I am not afraid to tell them my choice in turn I expect the same respect.Unfortunately there is much hostility on this subject and some how its implied I am not
being scientific.

I have made a study of electronics and electricity I have a degree in Broadcast electronics, and have worked with said technology for the last 14 years. In none of this has my faith
did nothing but help me. The main problem lately is closed minded non-believers who want to ridicule and demean me for no reason.
Yet I stand.

I ask these people are they pro choice and they say YES, well give me my Choice to believe.
 
Here's a new thought. The bible says that the earth was created in seven days. It took a whole lot longer than that. I too am an atheist, and believe that God is a technology freak from the future who went back to show off and play with the primitive minds of our ancestors. Today, making the blind see is sometimes only a surgery away.
 
TTA,

<<Let’s not throw out the possibility that man will Time Travel, and will understand truths that we have no comprehension of now. The proper alignment of such events in people’s lives that do not prove to just being coincidental, but of actual manipulation. That truth, that some force is controlling man is not to be denied nor over looked in considering God being the ultimate answer to it. In turn it may very well be, but in all things there is a center of something suggesting activity of a malicious conscious nature.>>

Well aren't you the devil's advocate. You just doesn't want to hand over your sovereignty over to something you really doesn't understand yet. Perhaps it is your only real safety in this world I guess.

I thought long and hard on this one! and I even asked GD in my mind through a little thought prayer to answer this very question? suddenly it came to me and I realized something?

I had remembered at the beginning of the summer that this bird kept trying to make her nest in my laundry dryer vent. So I kept destroying the nest so she would go somewhere smarter and build her nest because if I ran my dryer after those little chic's hatched they would torch to death! But the bird was so determined and came back again and tried to build the nest and "I" destroyed it again!!!

I just couldn't imagine what on earth was going through this birds head? What was it thinking? It would come back to find the nest destroyed and think to itself, what on earth is going on here? this is the most horrible thing that mother nature could possibly be doing to me at a time when I need to lay my eggs!

This little mamma bird just could not grasp the higher intelligence of this terrible affliction that was testing her! She attempted diligently about 4 times to keep rebuilding the nest and FINALLY SHE QUIT AND GAVE UP AND MOVED ON TO BUILD ONE ELSEWHERE!

It was a good thing that I kept destroying this nest otherwise she would have been distraught when her baby chic's died! So I pondered to think on this in relation to us as human beings and bad things happening to us that we just cannot understand but in reality could be for our own good! possibly GDs way of sheltering us from harm even though we are in a state of confusion and it may feel like the four walls around us are caving in!

This perhaps could also be the scenario of the attack of the double digits and synchronicity? perhaps it is a global numbering system that keeps us in check? CALL IT MANIPULATION, YES! But perhaps for a good cause that is higher than our understanding and control! If one is not seeing the double digits anymore due to faith in GD this would be the purest form of being as CLOSE TO GD as one COULD POSSIBLE GET! BASICALLY ONE IS IN THE LIGHT and has no need for the double digits. A state of no conflict. Eye to eye, heart of heart, soul to soul with the CREATOR! WERE NO MORE MANIPULATION CAN RUN RAMPID IN THE CREATORS PRESENTS!!! THE CLOCK HAS STRUCK 12 HICKORY DICKORY DUCK!!!

All we can do as humans is strive to do good and to have FAITH AND HOPE in a higher being as GD! to watch over us and guide us in the proper path.

Perhaps if we were to believe in GD it would be done onto us as we believe. By believing we are allowing the higher authority to assist us. Faith is a funny thing and rarely understood...maybe better explained this way,

Yes GD controls man's knowledge by either giving or withholding inspiration. We can know nothing about God, unless He steps through the veil and chooses to reveal Himself. If GD does not give a person the gift of faith, they will remain blind.

Comprehending, understanding, and believing is really an issue of the heart (and also God's timing). God deliberately blocks His truth from view, as He may deem appropriate, especially from those who are not pure in heart or have a genuine hunger for the real things of God.

Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God (Mat. 5:8).

Blessed are they which hunger and thirst after righteousness, for they shall be filled (Mat. 5:6).

At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes (Mat 11:25).

Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven (Mat. 18:3).

God cannot place his new wine of truth into old wineskins. One reason that GD remains hidden from us, is that it is very difficult for people to accept new truth who have already made up their mind about fundamental issues.

CAT...
 
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