Philadelphia Experiment discussion

gamerz31w said:
Let me guess maybe it’s none of my business, but I’m very curious are those U.S. Navy Marines soldiers?
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Oh, boy. Please never refer to a US Marine as a soldier. They are Marines. They do not take kindly to being referred to as soldiers. :rolleyes:

Sailors are the Navy, soldiers are the Army, Airmen are the Air Force and Coast Guardsmen are the US Coast Guard.
 
gamerz31w said:
Allen’s account of the event is widely understood to be a hoax
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I guess you could ask yourself how reliable is Allen’s account. Regarding Albert Einstein; Was he involved in such a project? First, as described the Philadelphia Experiment was an electrical engineering and high energy physics program neither of which were in the field of Einstein’s area of expertise or interest. Albert Einstein was a theoretical, not an experimental, physicist working in the fields of general relativity and quantum mechanics. Second, at the time described by Allen, Albert Einstein was lending his knowledge to the US Navy looking into why the Navy’s submarine force torpedoes were failing to detonate. Third, other than that one program Albert Einstein was extremely anti-war and wanted nothing to do with the military. Forth, Albert Einstein had renounced his citizenship from three different German states/kingdoms, Switzerland, Austro-Hungry and was for a period of time during WWI a stateless person. He stated that he considered himself a “citizen of the world” and that “Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind.” He didn’t become a US citizen until 1940. The fact is, because of his disdain for specific national fealty he could not get a security clearance to work on secret military projects even if he had such a desire. President Roosevelt was an anti-Semite and didn’t fully trust Einstein. Likewise the FBI didn’t trust him and would not have issued a security clearance.

As for the project itself think about it. The Manhattan Project to develop the atomic bomb involved physics that both German and Japanese physicists understood. It didn’t involve physics so advanced that, even if actually possible in theory, would have been considered to be beyond the reach of physicists for at least a century and possibly as much as 5 to 10 centuries - which is what the Philadelphia Experiment as described involved. But the government moved the entire R&D arm of the Manhattan Project to the middle of “Butt F*** Arabia” out in the middle of the New Mexico desert 100 miles away from the nearest town. Yet we’re to believe that the most advanced physics program imaginable, a program that suddenly advanced physics 1,000 years in a stroke, was housed in the middle of the busiest harbor in America for anyone, including the Russians, to see and spy on during WWII? No freaking way. Sorry. So, yes, the story is considered to be a hoax because it makes no sense in the main and is based on the impossible physics of Unobtainium.
 
Why the physics of the impossible? To teleport the Eldridge from Point A to Point B you need to convert it to individual atoms and beam them from A to B where you reassemble them. You need to be able to save the relative position of every atom (its a configuration space). The Eldridge was a Canon-class destroyer escort displacing about 1250 tons. That works out to about a hundred billion, billion, billion atoms of metal. You need to have a computer that can store a 3D configuration space (x,y,z, coordinate) that localizes each atom, i.e. you need about 10^30 RAM memory of 3 bit bytes, one byte for every atom. In 1943 there were no RAM chips. Each bit (bit, not byte) of “RAM” was basically a nail with a copper coil wound around it. You would need 3x10^30 nails and copper to wind a coil on each of the nails. That’s 3x hundred, billion, billion, billion nails, three nails for every atom of the ship. If each nail with its copper coil weight just 1 oz that works out to 10^25 US tons (10 million, billion, billion tons). I’m going to go out on a limb and guess that the RAM alone would take all the copper and iron on Earth leaving none left to build a power plant the size of Delaware to power the RAM. What about the actual computers? All you have so far is a single RAM module. You need two RAM modules and two computers which also use nails and copper coils, vacuum tubes, cams and gears. There were no digital computers. The computers the Allies did have were agonizingly slow and all of them were being used to plan the Air Force/RAF bombing campaign over Europe. But if the Philadelphia Project did have one available they could have used it to reassemble the 10^30 atoms. It would have taken about 100,000 years for the program to complete its run but it could eventually work out the relative positions. Of course this assumes the above power station and RAM modules. In the mean time you have no copper for electronics, electric transmission cables, ammunition shell casings, etc.

My friend, when you read these fantastic stories stop and analyze what is being suggested and see if it passes the “sniff” test. If it smells like dog crap it’s probably dog crap.
 
gamerz31w said:
I guess it’s hard to say speaking of what if such teleporting ship ever existed.
What did you mean by saying sniff test and dog shit?
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Its an English “proverb”: If you sniff a pile of brown goop and it smells like dog poop it probably is dog poop. The same would apply to a story. If the story doesn’t make sense then the story is probably nonsense.

The Philadelphia Project has a strong odor of dog poop and makes no sense. Maybe you didn’t appreciate the enormity of the mass involved in a hypothetical analog RAM module of 10^25 ton mass. The mass of planet Earth is 10^21 tons. Therefore 10^25 tons is the mass of 10,000 Earths or 10 times the total mass of all the planets in the solar system (10^24 tons). You need two such RAM modules plus two computers that can address 10^30 RAM and an electric generation plant to power the system. You’ll also have to build an infrastructure somewhere that has the machines to refine the raw materials and then manufacture and assemble the gadgets. They’d also be multi-planet sized facilities. Where are you going to build these machines? How many billion people will it take to run the machines? Where are they going to come from? How are you going to house and feed them? Who is going to build the entire civilization’s infrastructure to support all those people? How are you going to build an entire planet on which to build all of this? You can’t use an existing planet orbiting a star because you will gravitationally unbalance that system. The mass is now going to be on the order of, what? 75,000 Earths? 100,000? How are you going to run a program to manipulate all of those atoms? “Programs” and data for 1940’s computers were entered via punch cards. Those were stiff thick paper cards about 8.5" x 4" with holes punched into them for an optical reader to read (binary code - hole = 1 no hole = 0). There were no disk drives. Output data was saved on other punch cards because magnetic tape storage wasn’t invented until 1951. You’d also have to invent space travel and have space ships capable of trans-galactic travel in order to mine the entire mass of up to 100,000 Earths. And the space ships would have to be able to travel near the speed of light in order to assemble all that material by 1943. And where would it be assembled? Certainly no where near the Solar system. That amount of mass would have an enormous gravitational field that would alter the orbits of every planet in the solar system unless it was assembled far, far, far away from Earth. But if all that was true what would be the point of the Philadelphia Project? In order to bring it all together you’d have to have technologies that would make the Philadelphia Project laughably obsolete.

That’s the dog poop sniff test. Just because someone says something fantastic happened doesn’t mean that it did happen or that it was even remotely possible for it to happen. Instead of getting roped into believing a science story based strictly on blind faith you apply sound scientific principles to the story and see where that leads you. First and foremost you look at the story and determine what the story implies but is not stated. That’s what I’ve done here. I am aware of what technologies were available in the 1940s and applied them to what the story implies had to happen in order to pull it off. In doing so I made a provisional assumption that it was possible to do but had to be done using the available technologies rather than through the use of technologies known not to exist at the time. I also preclude the use of Unobtanium.

So, what is the probability that the Philadelphia Project story is true? Zero. A Type 2 civilization might be able to do it a thousand or more years from now but not the scientists of World War II. Not a single technology required to pull it off existed at the time.
 
I think that may be sort of what Darby is implying. However, he didn’t take into account that we may have had help from ETs back in the day, which in turn led to the Philadelphia Experiment event. The technology he said did not exist at the time, may have in fact existed.

This is just from my personal experience, but I believe that the historians attempting to debunk the Philadelphia Experiment were deliberately trying to mislead the public. And most of what mainstream history has been teaching us is utter BS. Mainstream education is not telling us anywhere near 100% of the truth.

It’s all an agenda by the cabal/Deep State to keep us in the dark. It’s also very possible, like the TV series Ancient Aliens implies, that civilizations had electricity in ancient times; and also for instance that the Great Pyramids of Egypt were not burial tombs but power plants.

And all that is just scratching the surface of the truth. I’m very sorry if our contrasting belief systems are confusing you.
 
Read what I said.
Darby said:
But if all that was true what would be the point of the Philadelphia Project? In order to bring it all together you’d have to have technologies that would make the Philadelphia Project laughably obsolete.
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If the “ETs” were helping then what was the possible point of the Philadelphia Project? They had the technology to travel across the vastness of the galaxy to Earth. They had the technology to build reasonably small and ungodly powerful super-duper computers to navigate the galaxy. They had the technology to build engines to propel their craft to near light speed. They had to have had the computing power to atomize, teleport and reassemble a 1250 ton ship one atom at a time. It would have been child’s play. But according to the story they had to resort to vacuum tube, pully and gear, reed relay driven first generation ANALOG computers to run the project. And they totally f***ed it up like a gaggle of amateurs. They drove sailors crazy and embedded others in bulkheads! Who needs morons when you have ETs like this?

There’s a Deep State Cabal that wants to keep this a secret? Why? To keep secret that the ETs are incompetent? They want to keep people from laughing so hard they pee their pants?
 
I guess I’m already having mentality of tinfoil person conspiracy theorist.
“CNN fake news”-Donald Trump.

I’m quoting him.
45th President of United States of America.
 
In recent times, I’ve come across references resembling ancient mythical giant gate portals akin to the U.S.S. Eldridge from the Philadelphia Experiment. I encountered such examples in popular video games like Rayman 3, Minecraft, and Quake. On a separate note, I want to clarify that I do not have prostate cancer. I recently visited a urologist who thoroughly examined my prostate, an experience that was rather ticklish and oddly amusing, akin to a form of peculiar torture.
 
gamerz31w said:
It looks like someone,somebody changed twice the name of that thread.
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Oh, boy. That’s a problem, my friend.

Cosmo,

Gamerz has a valid point. If you recall, back in 1999-2002 we were having a problem with a few members here who would either change the title of the OP’s thread or would post a thread and then after it had been responded to a couple dozen times delete the OP post. I perma banned one of them over on Anomalies.net because he went through the forum and deleted over 250 of his OP posts one evening. (I ultimately let him back. He was one of my members who was on psychotropic meds and the forum was his only outlet. Yup, I had to suspend his account a couple more times thereafter. But he never again went so far as to do anything that could damage the database. I don’t envy you, brother. Running this sort of site does have its unique challenges.)

Raul, here and Phil over on Anomalies used the same solution. They changes the BBS settings to prevent someone other than the OP changing the title or editing another member’s post in any way. They also set reasonable time limits for any edits and had a short time fuse on deleting the OP post. In fact, as I recall the OP couldn’t delete the OP post if the thread had even one response. The OP, within the time limit, could delete the contents of the post but the post never went away. I would simply state the OP deleted the contents.
 
Hi all, new member here, someone who really likes the idea of time travel.

The Philadelphia Experiment (Project Rainbow) has always been one of my favourites. There are a few reasons for my love of this story.

Firstly, one of the earliest books my father gave me as a young child was ‘The Philadelphia Experiment’. It kind of got me hooked at an early age, and also just talking about it brings back good memories.

Secondly is the simplicity of it. The Eldridge became invisible, the Eldridge appeared in Norfolk, it disappeared from there and reappeared in Philadelphia, but with men fused to the decks and bulkheads.
There was no need to analyse possible paradoxes as it was either a failed experiment, or one that worked too well either way it became classified with no further action being taken

Thirdly, there are a lot of aspects to be discussed. Part of that is due to the many facets of the story in its original form.
These aspects are also in a list…

  1. Was it real? And how could we prove it?
  2. If it was real, then what reality are we talking about?
  3. Are there ways to test the idea, if the ‘real’ aspects are what we would like to think about.
When I first came across the story in the book,
it was maybe late 70s or very early 80s. It was not a manual so it was reasonably shy of technical specs. I have tried to find some specifications in the hope it will give me a start point to come up with a basic prototype test.

So the question about reality… I do not mean that we are in an alternate present. What I do mean is what was real at the time of the alleged experiment.
I guess many of you (of a certain age) will remember to eat your carrots because they will make you see in the dark. For those of you who do not know, or maybe never had this said to you, you may find it very surprising to find out that the origin of this ‘fact’ was the British Government. This was not because us Brits are all a bit thick, but it was the public excuse to cover advancement in radar. It was better to give away the state secret about some chemical compounds in carrots, rather than have the Luftwaffe pushing harder forward with their radar technology. At the time, the best the Luftwaffe had was effectively directional beam transmitters and the equipment onboard the aircraft to stay within the beams until they crossed; whereupon the bombs were to be delivered. On the other hand, we could tell how many planes were approaching as well as direction and height. So the question of reality is what was an invisible ship?
We know that degaussing was a regular treatment for ships to prevent what we’re known as magnetic torpedos (that is the generic name, but you understand the point?). So was the invisible ship experiment simply to try and provide that degaussing ability at sea? Was is even something as bold as radar invisibility in preparation for Nazi Germany making the next leap in their technology? Then we get to the other two pathways. Was it designed to make the ship invisible to the human eye? Or was it propaganda to cover up something else (eating your carrots)

So in my mind the possibility of it being a complete fabrication has to remain as the sole explanation of events, as currently we have no evidence to the contrary.

But if we were to start developing a scale prototype, then even the slightest recordable and repeatable outcome opens a complete new direction of investigation.

Having read this forum the post by Darby is very informative and very true. The teleport route is not a viable one. But we still have the ever popular gateway or the chariot option, where all the atoms remain in there respective place, but the entire unit is moved. So there are still theories that could be applied to give a working hypothesis to the more extreme (and in that case more interesting) views of what could have happened.

So, I guess the next steps would be to try and recreate the experiment and see what could be done. And this is where other ideas would be most welcome, so please feel free to add input or tell me I am completely insane. If you are telling me I am insane, please could you justify your reasoning?

My thoughts are in effect very simple. Create a scale model of the Eldridge position the coils as close to the descriptions of Charles Berlitz and Carlos/Carl. Then using a high current power supply, create a pulsed field around the model until something happens. My gut feel for this part of the experiment is that I will create a very powerful induction heater and melt the model.

I do recall in one of the descriptions of the equipment used, the mention of a radar being used to generate the high frequency pulses. American technology at the time used on destroyer escorts had a frequency or around 2GHz. So it would be possible to create a high power, high frequency pulse and see what happens. I do have access to some high current power supplies up to 4000 amp and hope to be getting an even higher capacity power supply next year. I also have access to some high current switching equipment, although I would need to modify some of it for the frequency this experiment would require. My first thought would be to use MOSFETs, but the original radar would have been a valve set. So there is a question if there is an effect that is peculiar to valves (I believe the US call them tubes) that would not be produced using MOSFETs. Therefore I would need to create a valve based pulse generator as well. (As some people say that music through a digital amplifier does not sound as good as music through a valve amp).

I am currently working on a radar project for one of my customers, and so I have access currently to a scale model of a land based radar that I use to test some algorithms. This could give a chance to see if there is any change in the reflection with and without the field created by the pulses.

One problems I do forsee is that in scale model testing, I would me limited to the size of the model, and therefore the power supply would have to be external to the ship. Would having this arrangement reduce or nullify the effect? And would it potentially stop the effect by having cables running outside the field.

But that is where my thoughts are at the moment. What do you guys think? And do you have any questions about this initial idea? Also do you see anything I have missed out in the overall idea for the test? And do you have any skills that you could donate to the project?
 
Prof said:
One problems I do forsee is that in scale model testing, I would me limited to the size of the model, and therefore the power supply would have to be external to the ship. Would having this arrangement reduce or nullify the effect? And would it potentially stop the effect by having cables running outside the field.
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I’m going to assume the effect you are referring to is radar “invisibility”. The answer to that question is, yes. Having a huge power supply will have the effect of nullifying what you’re trying to achieve.

The scale of the model really isn’t relevant.

How does radar work? You send out a pulse of EM radiation which paints a target and you receive back the target’s reflected EM radiation. What does a power source emit? EM radiation. That cuts out “the middle man” so to speak. You no longer need radar to detect a target. You can passively detect it by “listening” for the EM radiation of the power source while avoiding being detected yourself. Your ship cannot have external power supplies or external major power cables. All on board EM sources have to be super shielded or you will be detected.

Fortunately we’ve solved the radar detection problem through the use of materials and geometries that passively reduce the radar cross section of planes to insect size and allow ships to get off the first shot without being radar detected (though modern drones, themselves using stealth technology thanks in great part to a member of this forum, seem to have developed sufficiently to negate that advantage significantly by being able to get close enough to get a camera on the target).
 
I am interested in the story primarily as it was told when I was very young. I would like to try and recreate the what I was told under the name of the Philadelphia Experiment. I do not recall the Project Rainbow name until a lot later.

I have some skills and abilities that can help, I am a qualified radio and radar engineer, I have access to some decent equipment to recreate period radar and also the purported pulse equipment installed on the Eldridge. But I have limited documentation as to the nature of the coils as fitted to the ship. What was the orientation? What were the nature of the coils? Were they wound round formers, or was the ship the former? What was the length of the coils with reference to the ship? Were they all oriented the same?

If I could find that out, then I would love to try and recreate the original experiment and see what results would be if it really happened.
 
Prof said:
I have some skills and abilities that can help, I am a qualified radio and radar engineer, I have access to some decent equipment to recreate period radar and also the purported pulse equipment installed on the Eldridge. But I have limited documentation as to the nature of the coils as fitted to the ship.
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So, the Eldridge was a Canon class DE (destroyer escort). Canons were powered by 4x diesel-electric 4500 kW General Motors Model 16-278A diesel-electric engines. All the diesel did was turn the turbines for the generator. The propeller shafts were powered by electricity, not diesel. That’s a total of 18 mega-watts. A generator that size can run you somewhere north of $14 million. Used you might pick up for $5 - $10 million.

Remember that even small US Navy vessels (such as a Canon class DE), during emergencies, can pull into a small city’s harbor and power the entire city for a time using its generators.

As to “what was the nature of the coils”? Celluloid was the nature of the coils. Celluloid as in both paper to write a story and movie film to film a movie (two movies the second of which was a real flop).
 
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