John Titor - some questions.

are you saying you wouldnt have went out with titor?

Yes, I would have... but technically it would have not been a date. It would be like if you were interested in Space and you went out with an astronaut. It would be mostly a question and answer period.
It would take a couple a times to see if you were really attracted to the astronaut himself.

Speaking of astronauts did anyone go to the Cleveland NASA open house last weekend? They actually had an astronaut there (Carl Watz)and they gave out alot of free stuff. The talk on the new Ares
rocket was interesting. I guess the Sandusky open house is this weekend May 31 and June 1st.
NASA open houses
 
So, they tell us that they haven't the tecnology to control the black hole, they only hope that in this time it will be destroyed...

Don't worry they know how to contain it. I gave them the information John gave me concerning it.
 
"Yes, I would have... but technically it would have not been a date. It would be like if you were interested in Space and you went out with an astronaut. It would be mostly a question and answer period.
It would take a couple a times to see if you were really attracted to the astronaut himself."

as far as physical attraction goes, i really dont know how you two wouldve done, but on the mental aspect, i think you guys were made for each other. just my opinion though. i felt a really strong closeness between you two from the things i read. and especially your parting message to him. i guess its just good to know that theres folks that care in this world.
 
i felt a really strong closeness between you two from the things i read. and especially your parting message to him.


I know. I felt that too.... but denying it makes me feel better. /ttiforum/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
 
aye, sorry to bring it up. it just made me feel good in a very bad time in my life. your a good person. you always have my respect.
 
It is quite a thing to look backwards and ponder... I know I can not afford 4 dollar gasoline and 5 dollar milk. How about you? Still at war in iraq... he/she is running for prez and thier power base will be thier only concern not you or me. The chinease olymipics look bleaker and bleaker... Our civil rights are dead and gone, pray you have nothing to hide and that your airport strip searchs do not interfere with your daily lives of consumption. Mace, sticky goop, tazers, and seizure lights are now crowd control norms. Wacoish events are the norm and nobody notices because of the commoness of it all.

BY 2008 EVERYONE WOULD KNOW THAT THEY WERE NOT GOING BACK TO THE WORLD THEY ONCE KNEW.

9 years ago gas was 89 cents a gallon, We were at war with NOBODY, Net Zero offered internet access for free, food was cheaper, Cops had to obey the rules of respect and the law of the constitution, Wireless internet and cell phone net access was nil, terrorism was not a household word,and he world was full of promise and hope, One could afford to go see a movie without considering his gasoline budget...

We are not going back to that...

it is quite a thing to reflect and ponder...
 
9 years ago gas was 89 cents a gallon, We were at war with NOBODY, Net Zero offered internet access for free, food was cheaper, Cops had to obey the rules of respect and the law of the constitution, Wireless internet and cell phone net access was nil, terrorism was not a household word

My friend, 9 years ago we were paying about $2.00 a gallon in California. The last time that we saw $0.89 in California was in the late 1970's. It hit $0.75/gallon in 1976.

And 9 years ago we were at war with Iraq. During the Clinton Administration the media played a game of silence but we were flying combat sorties every day in Iraq right through the end of the Clinton Era.

Yes, NetZero offered the Internet for free...and all the spam you could handle. People made a choice not to use the service. The free plan lasted for less then two years because it was a big money loser for them. Recall April 1, 2000 and the collapse of the NASDAQ "Dot.com" hi-tech bubble.

Yes food was cheaper in 1999, It was cheaper in 1989, 1979 and 1969 as well. Of course, back in 1999 we weren't forced to turn food into gasoline.

In 1999 law enforcement had to obey the law. The same applies today. But the cry of "police state" was there in 1959, 1969, 1979 and 1989. It was there in 1789.

And what planet have you been on for the past 40 years? International and domestic terrorism has been a major daily topic since the mid-1960's. Ever hear of PLO, PFLP, Red Brigades, FALN, SDS, SLA, Baader-Meinhof Group, Red Army Faction, Shining Path, Weathermen/Weather Underground, IRA, Tamil Tigers, KKK et al?
 
in 1999, i paid 1.50 for a gallon of gas in my car. in 95-96, i paid .99 a gallon from the pure station in selma alabama. i remember because it was my first car. a 1974 chevy malibu station wagon. i dubbed it, "the battlewagon." because of its plywood rear window, and its volumes of spray paint on it. boy, i could tell some stories about that car. they sure dont make em like they used to. :D
 
just a reply. As long as no one falls into the black hole, there will be time to consider how to contain it, if they even get that far -- and that is having enough energy to actually create one, but as it seems that they may have before back in 2005, it seems that if nothing happened, and it lasted 13 million billionths of a second. Poof!
 
could be possible..but how did they come up with such realistic script, if ever.. i mean, how would someone think of a lot of areas in detail... i dunno.. im confused myself.. lol......and if so, are you saying whoever played the role of john titor's a mixed psycho, physist, psychic, scientist and historian??? .............
 
Littered as the Titor story is with inductive errors of logic, it's easy to fall into them yourself. Just because one of us or some of us couldn't come up with the Titor story in no way means someone else couldn't. And we have empirical proof that somebody did come up with the story, since the Titor hoax happened.

The story is also amazingly vague, not accurate or predictive at all.

Titor was a mix of pop culture liberalistic fantasy, science fiction- which was advantageous since fewer and fewer people read anything literary let alone sci fi, and of course cold reading of his subjects.

It was a con. Pure and simple, a con. A long con.

Disgusting.
 
well, yea, but it's not like i fall into him completely..

it's just that im weighing things objectively in as much as i can..& im saying these based on how i perceived and understood all the previous conversations ive read... so far...lol.....that's why im saying if someone would ever start introducing himself like that right now, i'd probably laugh at it,..but since it happened last 2000 when internet world had not been fully developed or improved,& it was john titor who started it all up, real or not, my point is, how did he came up with those 'fictions' ...are you saying you already know by 2000 or 1998 that we'd be having youtube right now? and that 2008 would be good or worst? that there will be a great earthquake in china that'll kill a lot of children? and that china olympics thing would fake some parts or so? & that particular poem, the soldier's winter[is it like, it might be john titor as well?]?-- that's just some curious thoughts, after all...& if he's a hoax, don't you think he should have been tracked down sooner? there's a lot of ways, anyways...

but yea,, it's easy to determine an average faker, though,,,
it's really easy to conclude that he's a faker.... but a very excellent one, i should say. way to be a hoax...... ^_^

thanks for the reply. /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif

^_^
 
What I am going to post here, is in no way an attack on you- and I mean that absolutely sincerely. Please do not take it as an attack.

However, logic kills more monsters than any magic sword. Likewise with Titor and his alleged predictions.

To test a prediction, one must get the LITERAL WORDS OF THE PREDICTION and APPLY THEM TO THE TIME OR DATE THE PREDICTION SPECIFIES. If the prediction does not date itself in a way which is identifiable, it isn't a prediction, it's a vauge statement. Worthless to test.

***my point is, how did he came up with those 'fictions' ...are you saying you already know by 2000 or 1998 that we'd be having youtube right now?

Everybody in the media did. It was predicted by several movie directors, it was predicted by most computer insiders and it was of course predicted by CIA and other intel analysts who were desperate to spread their MOCKINGBIRD operation and take it to the next level. That is worthy of a whole thread somewhere else.

***and that 2008 would be good or worst?

Defined how? Obama supporters/cultists are delighted.

***that there will be a great earthquake in china that'll kill a lot of children?

where did Titor say that? And if he did, so what? Predicting a big earthquake somewhere the size of China is like saying people are going to die in a war tomorrow. They sure are. But which people, where...

***and that china olympics thing would fake some parts or so?

No. No no no. He said there would be no more olympics. He said there would not be, therefore, a China olympics. It was hateful, stupid and worthless, but the chincom olympics DID happen. That is one of the clearest hoax flags in the whole sorry mess.


***& that particular poem, the soldier's winter[is it like, it might be john titor as well?]?--

Sheer coincidence and the two poems are not even similar other than the coincidental words. Catullus and Wildred Owen both wrote poems referring to the sun- and both have elegiacs in them- so what?


***if he's a hoax, don't you think he should have been tracked down sooner?

he was tracked down almost immediately but some of the people tracking the hoaxer father and son team down kept silent for reasons of their own.


Paper trails don't lie. And the paper trail on this spells HOAX HOAX HOAX.



----edited for typo. urgh.
 
DDC,

could be possible..but how did they come up with such realistic script, if ever.. i mean, how would someone think of a lot of areas in detail... i dunno.. im confused myself.. lol......and if so, are you saying whoever played the role of john titor's a mixed psycho, physist, psychic, scientist and historian???

I understand that you're new to the story so you probably haven't read the 30,000 or so Titor related posts here and on Anomalies yet. So, I'll paraphrase to answer your questions.

How did they come up with the script?

The war story section of the Titor Saga was long ago solved. Group Titor lifted the war story directly out of Pat Frank's 1959 Central Florida based post-nuclear war novel Alas, Babylon.

They didn't just take general ideas from the novel. They took the locale, characters and specific events directly from the story right down to, for example, the main character and his father growing oranges to sell, taking a small boat out to fish for the Ft. Reprise riverside community, the "shotgun militia", the 11 year old boy who became a member of the militia, the weapon that the 11 year old boy carried (a shotgun), the advertisement for trading cars for bicycle tires and the character who converted 12 volt car batteries for household electrification.

Where did all of this talent come from to write the story and make all the props (the "gadget" and the schematics for the gadget)?

We only know of one person who has anything to do with the John Titor Foundation (JTF); Larry Haber, Esq. He's the attorney and general manager of the JTF.

When the JTF came into being as a business entity it was housed in Larry's law office at 606 Front St., Celebration, FL. 34747. Larry was also Chief Legal Counsel for VISI Corp., also housed at the same address. VISI is a multi-media advertising agency. Their facility at that address had a graphc arts studio, sound stage and movie production studio and all the talent associated with those operations. Larry is an entertainment lawyer - he puts LLC's together for clients who produce movies. He's also been an Exec Producer himself on a couple of movie projects.

Do we know that Larry was directly involved as a member of Group Titor? No, we don't. We do know that Titor very likely found the link to this site, where he first posted, through the Celebration FL BBS (www.34747.com) because there was a link on that site to this site at the time that he started posting. The reason it was there is because the owner here, MOP, was the original SysAdmin, Webmaster and Moderator of the Celebration site and he put up a link there to here.

Larry had at his beck and call all the resources at VISI to produce the props. We know that those resources were used to produce both The Book and The Radio Program. We know from the person who produced The Radio Program (Ben Z) in VISI's sound studio, that Group Titor-Book Team produced in the VISI graphic arts studio the "previously unpublished" additional schematics included in the version of The Book that could be purchased directly from the JTF rather than through their Amazon store.

According to Larry the "real" client is "Momma" Kay Titor. She moved the brood from Florida to hide out anonymously in the Utah area for fear of the government MIB's nabbing her little son John. This was circa 2003. What does she do to remain anonymous? She contacts a local attorney to help her with writing The Book. What does he do to keep her anonymous and safe from the MIB's and the mean old US military establishment?

Does he contact a close and trusted friend to help him with this case of national security, time tavel and nuclear war with Russia; a war where 3 billion people are nuclear toast in a few years?

No. He contacts an attorney that he that he totally lost contact with 25 years earlier in law school - Larry Haber of Celebration FL. Does Larry specialize in witness protection or government conspiracies to kill its citizens. No. He exec produces movies and puts together LLC's that produce movies. An attorney whose father-in-law, just by-the-way, is General Emmett Titshaw, former base commander of the very AFB Base mentioned in Titor's Saga (McDill AFB) and current commanding general of the entire Florida Air National Guard. So much for keeping Momma Kay's distance from the government, the mean old US military and the MIB's. (Not to mention keeping any possible link to the name Titor out of the mix. TITshaw?)

All of that is according to Larry Haber with the exception of his father-in-law information. We discovered that in 2003 ourselves.

It's a bit of a stretch to imagine that quite by accident everything about the story leads back to Celebration (including the locale for the story itself).


So, how the props could have been produced isn't a mystery.

It didn't take a psychic or even a genious to come up with the social and political issues that were discussed. They were already being discussed all over the Net, and specifically on Art Bell's radio show "Coast-2-Coast AM" at the time that Titor started posting. It's no accident that he next started posting on Art Bell's BBS "Post-2-Post". The story didn't really start here on 2-NOV-2000. It started in the summer of 1998 via two faxes that Titor send to Art Bell's "Coast-2-Coast AM" fax line to be read on the air.

Larry Haber has spent a lot of time making the rounds on Coast-2-Coast. George Noory has a Titor show every April.

In other words, Group Titor targeted a specific audience: Art Bell listeners. There were a lot of them here when he started posting.

This story isn't about social commentary, national security, time travel or nuclear war. It's an online novel. It's about making movies, selling books and selling other paraphernalia associated with the Titor Saga. It's a commercial enterprise.
 
I see your point, Darby, about the commercial origins of John Titor, but it has truly morphed into something much more. Don't you think? It is the War of the Worlds of this generation. And things like social commentary, for example, are what people are getting out of it now.

Sure, it's an online story, and maybe it can be considered a hoax, but when it is combined with real life users making real life statements about the world and our country, the way it was back in the original Titor postings, then you have to admit it's relevance to the real world. Not a choose-your-own-adventure, but a story created out of reactions to things people said and asked of Titor. That's a new breed of story telling at least.

Anyway I've gotten so much out of the story beyond what was probably originally intended. It's always been about the John Titor story's effect on people for me. It's a cycle of reactions really. Neat stuff.
 
just a reply. As long as no one falls into the black hole, there will be time to consider how to contain it, if they even get that far -- and that is having enough energy to actually create one, but as it seems that they may have before back in 2005, it seems that if nothing happened, and it lasted 13 million billionths of a second. Poof!

I think I saw that film one afternoon. It didn't end too well for that chick out of Stargate. But then nothing did.
 
I see your point, Darby, about the commercial origins of John Titor, but it has truly morphed into something much more. Don't you think? It is the War of the Worlds of this generation. And things like social commentary, for example, are what people are getting out of it now.

Matt,

I'm sorry, but no - the story hasn't morphed into something important in the sense that you seem to be thinking. What morphed was how the topic was promoted.

The John Titor Saga died in late 2001. It was known here, it was known on Anomalies.net and it was known by the old Post-2-Post TT forum members. Outside that the story was virtually unknown save a very few sites. Titor was gone and Art Bell had closed down his P2P forum. A lot of people who had been discussing the topic on Bell's forum were lost to the topic because they weren't familiar with this site and had no way of knowing that we'd opened the Anomalies.net TT forum, inserted a copy of the "I am from 2036" thread from P2P and were continuing the discussion. We'd contacted those P2P members for whom we had email address' inviting them to the new forum but we only had a dozen or so email addresses. The other members dropped out because for them the topic was completely gone from the Internet. They may not have pursued the subject because even on P2P while Titor was still posting the thread was never a world burner. It was just another thread among hundreds of active threads being posted to by about 2,000 active members.

The reason for this turn of events was because a few weeks after Titor left Bell closed down P2P at 0200 hrs one morning without any prior notice. We were on the site in the middle of posting and *poof* it was shut down without a single word of explanation (which is another story in itself - marketing).

By the end of 2002 this site was virtually dead with a few people posting a bunch of personal no topic nonsense messages and jokes (the moderator had dropped off the map and the site went to hell for a while - yet another "another story in itself"). Anomalies was active but Titor was just a luke warm topic. Sure, it sprang up and was active for a week or two every six or eight weeks but it wasn't the top topic. Anomalies was then hosting "The Enterprise Mission" forum for Richard Hoagland. TEM was far, far, far and away the most popular forum there by over 70,000 posts vs. the TT forum. The political discussion forum (which is now a separate sister site TransAsianAxis) was almost as popular as the TEM forum. The TT site was a distant third. Titor was never close to being the most popular topic on Anomalies.

I purposely made an effort on Anomalies to keep the topic alive because our TT forum was new. We'd taken over the Post-2-Post TT forum when Bell closed down the site and started a TT forum there. I wanted TT forum hits and Titor was a way to get them if I put in the effort. But worldwide that didn't even put Titor up as even a blip on the screen.

And then came the Night of the Sock-Puppet Blitz from the John Titor Foundation promoting their Amazon "Titor" store. During one August 2003 night a JTF sock-puppet, using the handle "JTFan" and a JTF email account, mass spammed about 100,000 posts on every sort of forum imaginable commenting on the Titor story and how he found The Book for sale on Amazon. Interest in the almost dead story peeked because of the Blitz. The John Titor Dot Com site was a result of The Blitz. The JTF got on-air time on Coast-2-Coast. Most recently the JTF got TV time in Italy via Voyager.

Outside this site, Anomalies and a couple of others where we've discussed the topic at length among maybe a grand total of 50-75 regular posters, people who stick around the TT forum for more than a month, the usual comment you see on other sites where it pops up for a brief period is something along the lines of. "Oh, that BS story."

On TTI the general result has been yet another joker who is here simply to have a yuck at the members by posting yet another Titor-Look-Alike hoax with the standard "I don't care if you believe me but..." hook because they believe that everyone on this bus is a bozo.

When the Voyager episode becomes just another re-run the topic will cool back to its normal temperature and continue its fade into obscurity...unless and until the JTF makes another stab at it. The problem, of course, is that none of Titor's predictions, where he was specific, have come to pass. That kind of takes the wind out of the Sail of Credibility.

Take a look back at the topics here prior to the Voyager episode. In fact, take a look back at the topics prior to the middle of October 2008. We were only occassionally talking about Titor because for most of us the topic has become old and boring. Titor, though a reasonably good writer, didn't write all that much. He made 91 posts on P2P and only made 85 posts here. Most of the content of his posts is quoted material that he was responding to. About 1/3 of his posts on P2P were a repeat of what he'd posted here. There's not much left to talk about relative to his few posts after almost 10 years and 30,000+ posts especially when you consider that there wasn't any topic that he inserted into the story (Y2K, Y2K38, MIB's, government conspiracy, Middle East war(s), libertarianism, the "mean old USA" in general and CJD/Mad Cow Disease) that wasn't already long time hot button topics on hundreds of BBS sites, including the political discussion forum on Anomalies, and Art Bell's "Coast-2-Coast AM" radio show every night for several years.

It's marketing a commercial enterprise, my friend, not social commentary. This story is about marketing, sales, the Internet as a (then) new medium for marketing and sales and Art Bell/George Noory as a very popular resource for marketing alt-sci commercial enterprises. Had the JTF not blitzed the marketplace and kept it up it's doubtful that anyone would be talking about Titor except occassionally on the original few sites where the discussions started.
 
Ah, thank you, Darby, for engaging me in a little debate if nothing else.

Your points are more valid then I could tell you, but I cannot simply post a "fair enough" response. Your point that the story is newly revived is enough to close the argument, but what would you think of me if I just laid down? After all, this wouldn't be the first story to breath new life / meaning years after its conception. Anyway I'm not necessarily arguing with the facts of the story merely the way it played out.

My point is that Titor's story would've been nothing without the back and forth question and answer scenario. So unless it were all a group of actors - which I suppose is possible - then at some point fiction mixed with reality. I hate this example, but think of Borat. If all the folks the fictitious character Borat encountered were actors, it would be so much less, and by that logic alone the Titor story is more than a story. The real world interactions, the posters who tested the story and the physics, the believers and the non-believers and the impression left on anyone who made and / or read the original posts are what I speak of when I say the story has become so much more.

Still I appreciate the way you flesh out the details the way you do. As much as I admittedly romanticize the whole thing I still firmly believe that the truth is very important, especially in the case of Titor and predictions of the supposed future.
 
Matt,

No problem. Debating the story by getting what actually transpired out to a new group of posters works for me.

Continuing along the lines of marketing:

As you've searched through the Titor Google hits you might have come across this quote dozens of times

THE TIME TRAVEL TALE OF JOHN TITOR
.
Although there is debate over the exact date it started, on November 02, 2000, a person calling themselves Timetravel_0, and later John Titor, started posting on a public forum that he was a time traveler from the year 2036.
.
One of the first things he did was post pictures of his time machine and its operations manual. As the weeks went by...[snip]

JohnTitor.com did their own spam giga-blitz with that opening to promote their own site in 2003. Though the site appears to be a John Titor fan/research site it isn't. It's a commercial website set up to make some money off of the story - meaning our posts. For a while Oliver WIlliams was selling advertising space on the site to Hustler Magazine. Big splash ads. And like Larry Haber, Williams has made the regular rounds on "Coast-2-Coast AM" promoting his site and the Titor Saga.

Though Titor first posted on this site, the story didn't start here. It started in 1998 on Art Bell's "Coast-2-Coast" with the two faxes.

Art Bell wasn't a news reporter, particularly familiar with science nor was he a deep social commentator. He was a radio actor and radio entertainer. He wasn't, while in the military, as his site used to claim, an Air Force technician assigned to Area-51 (he even had a photo of himself holding his Area-51 ID card). He was enlisted personnel (E-4 I think) assigned to Armed Forces Radio as a DJ. Coast-2-Coast AM is radio entertainment.

You might recall another time travel "expert" that Bell used to have on his show - Dr. David Anderson, PhD "former AIr Force Officer involved in the USAF's time travel project and one of the world's foremost authorities in the area of time travel research." Anderson "ran" the Time Travel Research Center (TTRC) and Time Travel Research Association (TTRA).

There was no TTRC or TTRA other than a website, phone answering service and a PO Box in New York State. The website had nice color photos of Anderson in the TTRC's (non-existent) laboratory. The website advertised for membership in the TTRA and even collected membership fees. And then it was gone. Bell wondered aloud on-air one night what had become of Anderson...that he may have slipped away into time.

He hadn't. He switched employers and was living in Rochester, NY. The TTRC was gone but he was then running a non-profit out of his apartment..new website out of Romania, same PO Box...and soliciting donations. His bio was listed on his new (legitimate, big name company) employer's website. Funny, no mention there of a PhD or even a college degree. Certainly no mention of being involved in time travel research as one of the world's foremost authorities on the subject. Bell knew this or reasonably should have known this because it only took us less than two days to gather all of the information.

This isn't an OT rant. It's two more examples of what the people who make the "Coast-2-Coast" rounds are about - marketing and sales rather than alt-sci or social commentary.

And no complaints here that people make money by engaging in the marketing and sales of commercial entertainment on the radio or Internet. It's just a matter of keeping one's lid screwed on straight, checking everying for proper head space and putting some perspective on the thing before elevating the characters in those science fiction stories to the status of "someone important".
 
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