It's been YEARS since I dug into John Titor stuff. The last substantive thing I watched about it was John Razimus' investigative documentary about it, but that was long ago. While discussing Titor in this thread, we were talking about whether the story had been debunked or not. @Dizzie reminded me of a thread I'd created in 2017 after watching that Razimus video where I present it as fact.:
http://timetravelinstitute.com/threads/john-titors-identity-revealed-to-be-morey-haber.8018/
It seemed convincing enough to make a thread about it at the time. Still, this was in the infancy of my TTI ownership, and shortly before I closed things up for a bit (lots of crazy people posting violence). I hopped on the bandwagon because it seemed like a good way to get people talking about something interesting.
Today, I spent the afternoon live streaming this and talking about it along the way. This was my first honest attempt at streaming, so it's pretty terrible, but you can check that out here if you're interested:
After watching the video, I'm not convinced Morey Haber created John Titor. I say this in 2022, being of relatively sound mind and spirit. My 2017 counterpart is too willing to play yesman. The Habers are involved (the foundation and the book). However, much of the spin toward Morey is hearsay and confirmation bias. I have nothing against Razimus; I think his video is excellent and mostly correct, but not all of it.
The other problem I have is the text comparison. You can no longer get to the document links in the YouTube video's description, but zooming in on the video while he's talking about it shows phrases like "and then he" or "in order to" or "because of the." Razimus uses these matches to assert that because both samples of writing have a lot of matches, they must be the same person.
The word combinations I saw were common phrases that everybody uses. I could not look deep into four orfive-word matches, but the comparison tool being used is for plagiarism checks, not writing style analysis. I am sure you can do AN analysis with that tool, but it's not convincing to me without more information or comparisons against other writers.
The Habers are certainly involved, but I think they inserted themselves into the equation after the Titor posts had been made.
Based on what I know and what I've seen in this video, my current theory is this:
[*]These people are entertainment lawyers; they see a compelling story and an interesting character
[*]For fun, one of them decides to create the John Titor Foundation and play out the book scenario
I think it is more plausible that they saw an opportunity to have some fun, attached themselves, and then wanted to forget about it after things petered out.
Throughout the Razimus video, we're shown Arthur Haber's emails. Arthur cannot write, his syntax is all over the map, and some sentences aren't even complete thoughts. Beccause of that, places where he asays "seeing how far they could take it" or "just having fun," I can't discount that as an outsider's perspective on what he was told.
With the writing comparison, he zeroes in on Morey because of a Facebook photo that REMINDED him of an avatar Titor WOULD use (Titor never had an avatar). It's a hunch, and those are a thing that can pay off, but it doesn't appear that he tried to compare any other writing samples. The examples he scrolls through in the video are all common ones you'd probably find throughout this post. I would have liked to see him compare it against his own writings, or those of people we know would not be Titor.
A counterpoint might be that there's no way the Habers could have known Pamela's address. Pamela gave that info to John Titor. However, these are entertainment lawyers. People who run businesses and know about computers. It would have been possible for them to find her without it. Especially in 2001's internet. Was there ever a handoff from Titor to the Habers? That would have made a more convincing story, but its absence makes sense if they were riding coattails.
The story died, and they went back to their lives... Arthur refers to the story as "a joke the family sometimes tells." That explanation would make sense if you were a coattail rider, but their story created Steins;Gate. John Titor is referenced in comic books. He's in video games.
Having that effect on your own culture does not align with their reaction, especially Brandon, who should be smiling like a Cheshire cat in that interview. It does line up with the response of someone who latched on afterward or during, though.
Think of how much consequence-free money the Habers would be entitled to if they could produce that time machine. Even if Morey Haber came to my house, cradled me in his arms, and whispered "I am Titor" into my ear, it wouldn't mean anything without evidence. Anybody can say anything. I want to see the machine - It would have been kept around, and at a minimum, they should be able to describe what components were used to build it. How'd they create the cutaway graphics that matched the physical device? This isn't something you throw out after you stick the landing. It's a trophy.
I'm not the authority on John TItor. This is just my opinion, and probably an incorrect one. I think it's interesting, though, and activates my almonds.
If you see a way to deflate this let me know, there's always a bigger fish.
http://timetravelinstitute.com/threads/john-titors-identity-revealed-to-be-morey-haber.8018/
It seemed convincing enough to make a thread about it at the time. Still, this was in the infancy of my TTI ownership, and shortly before I closed things up for a bit (lots of crazy people posting violence). I hopped on the bandwagon because it seemed like a good way to get people talking about something interesting.
Today, I spent the afternoon live streaming this and talking about it along the way. This was my first honest attempt at streaming, so it's pretty terrible, but you can check that out here if you're interested:
After watching the video, I'm not convinced Morey Haber created John Titor. I say this in 2022, being of relatively sound mind and spirit. My 2017 counterpart is too willing to play yesman. The Habers are involved (the foundation and the book). However, much of the spin toward Morey is hearsay and confirmation bias. I have nothing against Razimus; I think his video is excellent and mostly correct, but not all of it.
The other problem I have is the text comparison. You can no longer get to the document links in the YouTube video's description, but zooming in on the video while he's talking about it shows phrases like "and then he" or "in order to" or "because of the." Razimus uses these matches to assert that because both samples of writing have a lot of matches, they must be the same person.
The word combinations I saw were common phrases that everybody uses. I could not look deep into four orfive-word matches, but the comparison tool being used is for plagiarism checks, not writing style analysis. I am sure you can do AN analysis with that tool, but it's not convincing to me without more information or comparisons against other writers.
The Habers are certainly involved, but I think they inserted themselves into the equation after the Titor posts had been made.
Based on what I know and what I've seen in this video, my current theory is this:
- The original author of the Titor posts is still unknown
- One of the Habers knew of the TTI or Art Bell forums
- Brandon is at an appropriate age to be interested in these things and could have shown his father or uncle
- In the end, at least Larry knows of this story, if not all of them
[*]These people are entertainment lawyers; they see a compelling story and an interesting character
[*]For fun, one of them decides to create the John Titor Foundation and play out the book scenario
- This book is now a niche collector's item
- The Habers now allegedly own some form of the Titor story
- There's talk of a movie, definitely good for them
I think it is more plausible that they saw an opportunity to have some fun, attached themselves, and then wanted to forget about it after things petered out.
Throughout the Razimus video, we're shown Arthur Haber's emails. Arthur cannot write, his syntax is all over the map, and some sentences aren't even complete thoughts. Beccause of that, places where he asays "seeing how far they could take it" or "just having fun," I can't discount that as an outsider's perspective on what he was told.
With the writing comparison, he zeroes in on Morey because of a Facebook photo that REMINDED him of an avatar Titor WOULD use (Titor never had an avatar). It's a hunch, and those are a thing that can pay off, but it doesn't appear that he tried to compare any other writing samples. The examples he scrolls through in the video are all common ones you'd probably find throughout this post. I would have liked to see him compare it against his own writings, or those of people we know would not be Titor.
A counterpoint might be that there's no way the Habers could have known Pamela's address. Pamela gave that info to John Titor. However, these are entertainment lawyers. People who run businesses and know about computers. It would have been possible for them to find her without it. Especially in 2001's internet. Was there ever a handoff from Titor to the Habers? That would have made a more convincing story, but its absence makes sense if they were riding coattails.
The story died, and they went back to their lives... Arthur refers to the story as "a joke the family sometimes tells." That explanation would make sense if you were a coattail rider, but their story created Steins;Gate. John Titor is referenced in comic books. He's in video games.
Having that effect on your own culture does not align with their reaction, especially Brandon, who should be smiling like a Cheshire cat in that interview. It does line up with the response of someone who latched on afterward or during, though.
Think of how much consequence-free money the Habers would be entitled to if they could produce that time machine. Even if Morey Haber came to my house, cradled me in his arms, and whispered "I am Titor" into my ear, it wouldn't mean anything without evidence. Anybody can say anything. I want to see the machine - It would have been kept around, and at a minimum, they should be able to describe what components were used to build it. How'd they create the cutaway graphics that matched the physical device? This isn't something you throw out after you stick the landing. It's a trophy.
I'm not the authority on John TItor. This is just my opinion, and probably an incorrect one. I think it's interesting, though, and activates my almonds.
If you see a way to deflate this let me know, there's always a bigger fish.
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