IS MASS AN ILLUSION

EntropySux

EntropySux

Chrono Cadet
IS MASS AN ILLUSION AND WHAT ARE THE IMPLICATIONS FOR TIME TRAVEL?


H. E. Puthoff, Alfonso Rueda, and Bernhard Haisch have used modern physics to argue that “the concept of mass may be neither fundamental nor necessary in physics.” [1]

From this perspective, Einstein’s famous formula (E = mc2) is not about the conversion of one fundamental thing, mass, into another fundamental thing, energy; but rather “a statement about how much energy is required to give the appearance of a certain amount of mass.” The obvious conclusion then is that “there is no such thing as mass; only electric charge and energy, which together create the illusion of mass.”

They posit that “The physical universe is made up of massless electric charges immersed in a vast, energetic, all-pervasive electromagnetic field. It is the interaction of those charges and the electromagnetic field that creates the appearance of mass.”

This means the apparent weight of any object thought of as having mass,is nothing more than the interaction of electric charges and an electromagnetic field. This is basically the same as in the concept of Superstrings, where theory suggests that the void (i.e. nothing) forms infinitesimally small strings which wink in and out of existence, but which when focused together begin to make up the so-called mass of elementary particles.

"Superstring theory incorporates Supersymmetry, a concept which predicts that each particle is accompanied by a superparticle with similar properties, except that the spin must differ by one half unit" [2] (i.e. 180 degrees out of phase).

According to relativistic restrictions, strings must be massless, with the ends of the strings moving at the speed of light. In order for the superstrings to represent particles with mass, the strings vibrate and rotate such that they generate a series of energy levels, just as a violin string has a series of notes.

With Einstein’s E = mc2, these energy levels become the associated masses of the particles. But then, (as has been pointed out by Puthoff et. al.), mass may be illusionary, not really exist at all, and simply be the manifestation of electrical charge. Einstein’s equation is valid only to the extent the illusion is valid.

The distinction between mass being real or illusion is important, in that it provides for gravitational theory to be united with electromagnetic and quantum theory in such a manner as to verify the reality of the “vast, energetic, all-pervasive electromagnetic field.” This field in turn provides a means for the interconnectedness of all things, a mechanism for the unspecified interaction of matter in Mach’s Principle, and the basis of Connective Physics.
Which all continue to point to the possibility that information/energy/mass can be transmitted instantaneously (and I'm talking Planckoseconds) to anywhere in the universe.

There goes locality and causality as a pair out the window and opens the doors for time travel theory. Alas, but what mechanical device can be created to take advantage of this situation?



References:

[1] H. E. Puthoff, Alfonso Rueda, and Bernhard Haisch, The Sciences (Vol 34, No 6, Nov/Dec 1994, pg 26-31).
[2] Harvey, J.A., “Superstrings,” Physics Today, January, 1987, pg S-27
 
Re: IS MASS AN ILLUSION? ANS:YES

The entire Matrix of Mass, Space, and Time (or what I call Massive SpaceTime) is our common illusion.

With Einstein’s E = mc2, these energy levels become the associated masses of the particles.
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And E=mc2 accurately describes our physical reality of light and light-bubble (Hubble-bubble) surfaces. We know it as the physical parameter called Energy. But Energy is nothing more than trinity-integrated Mass, Space, and Time... as described by the equation itself. Matter in Motion.

Alas, but what mechanical device can be created to take advantage of this situation?
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It's called a Merkaba. And the geometrical configuration of this device has been well-established. We must only find the proper power spectral resonance feedback method in order to make it work.

Think of it this way: The Wright Brothers discovered the appropriate power spectral resonance feedback method to achieve aerodynamic flight in 3-dimensional airspace. They based this on the fact that LIFT is generated in accordance with "velocity squared". Lift = f(V^2).

E=mc^2 simply shifts from airspeed velocity squared up to a higher frequency spectrum of physical feedback: LIGHT. And just like velocity^2 generates LIFT which can move an airplane through SPACE, so we can conclude that LIGHT velocity^2 generates an equivalent electromagnetic "force" which can move us through TIME.

This is, of course, based on the fact that we set our perception of TIME based on our perception of the frequencies of LIGHT. We are, quite literally, BEINGS OF LIGHT. There is no way to dispute this as a scientific fact, and it is also something which has been told to us through innumerable spiritual traditions.

Anyone ever wonder if UFOs might just be Merkaba vehicles of our own design from our future?
RMT
 
Mass density within a moving finite system, where there is an ending margin to that moving finite system, can not be all one density, due to the dynamics of that sphere.

Therefor, the term masive spacetime, can not be used with uniform authority.

See works, publications, on this board, by Transient001.

Any space time phenominon secular to a sphere, would always have to consider the near end margins of that sphere, albeit, with any supposed phenominon, to the near end margins?
 
I must admit it is one way in an attempt to comprehend our universe. But I disagree with their basic assumption:


“The physical universe is made up of massless electric charges immersed in a vast, energetic, all-pervasive electromagnetic field. It is the interaction of those charges and the electromagnetic field that creates the appearance of mass.”

The reason I disagree is because mass creates that all pervasive electromagnetic field. But not by itself. That electromagnetic field is released within suns. The nuclear reaction of hydrogen to helium results in a decline of mass. The missing mass is changed into that all pervasive electromagnetic field.

But experimental observations suggest mass seems to be able to transmit instantaneously its effects to other bodies with mass. Well that has recently led me to a startling conclusion. I believe gravity is being caused by this hydrogen to helium nuclear reaction going on in our sun. Now I know that might be a bit hard to follow. But in the hydrogen to helium reaction, mass is in a transition state. It's moving. Like an electron, mass seems to be dropping into a lower energy level. Well this transitory state is being repeated over and over, eventually untill all the hydrogen is used up. When an electron drops into a lower energy level, a photon is released. So naturally it follows that if particles of mass drop into a lower energy state, some type of information is radiated away to be received by other particles of mass and mimmicked. So all the particles of mass in our solar locality are receiving this nuclear energy signal from our sun. The command to drop into a lower energy state by combining mass. That does appear to match experimental observations that show when two bodies attract, their internal energy is converted to kinetic energy and released in the form of heat when they collide. But it does also suggest that the gravitational constant might not be as constant as we believe.


I hoped you liked my theory. It is all my opinion. And someday it may just be accepted as fact.
 
Why call mass an illusion? It is a characteristic of objects in the reality in which we exist. Though it may not be what you thought it is, it is nonetheless real. To call it illusion is to dilute the meaning of the word. After all, if all is illusion then what is not?

But the ideas in the original post here are good. It is useful to think of mass/space/matter as electric fields. If you ask yourself then "what are electric fields?" well, how far do you want to define things?

Oh, by the way, here is a model of the... shall we say, 'fundamental chord' of space/matter. I like to have something to put my hands on when discussing these things.
maze2.JPG
 
Re: IS MASS AN ILLUSION? ANS:YES

In reply to EntropySux saying:
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Alas, but what mechanical device can be created to take advantage of this situation?
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RainManTime said:
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It's called a Merkaba. And the geometrical configuration of this device has been well-established. We must only find the proper power spectral resonance feedback method in order to make it work.
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It was my impression that a Merkaba is created by the manifistation of thought by an adept through meditation.
MerkabaMan.jpg


Merkaba Meditation Link

So it does not quite qualify as a "mechanical device". I do agree, however that the Merkaba has potential as a method of time/astral travel. In all of my posts I have advocated that if Time Travel were possible that it would most likely be through what we now call "spiritual" means by those who are advanced in those areas.


RainManTime said:
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we set our perception of TIME based on our perception of the frequencies of LIGHT. We are, quite literally, BEINGS OF LIGHT. There is no way to dispute this as a scientific fact, and it is also something which has been told to us through innumerable spiritual traditions.
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I agree and yet we spend most of our time engaged in petit disputes over stupid things like skin color and religious persuasion and who will control the Earth's resources. We must align the "light within" and the "light without" and kick the frequency up a notch or we're doomed to count time clinging to this little old rock hurtling through space.
 
Gerald_ODocharty said:

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"Why call mass an illusion? It is a characteristic of objects in the reality in which we exist. Though it may not be what you thought it is, it is nonetheless real. To call it illusion is to dilute the meaning of the word. After all, if all is illusion then what is not?" _________________________________________________________________________________



The reason it I (and others) believe that mass/matter is an illusion is because the "reality in which we exist" is a construct of our senses and an extension of our egos. Our eyes cannot see but a very small portion of the electromagnetic spectrum, therefore what we see is a manifestation of energy at a very low frequency, a harmonic of its true nature.

Think of television. We don't see the waves in the air, but once the signal is stepped down in frequency to the "visible light" range (i.e. the range our eyes can detect) we see images, that act like they have mass.

In order to free the mind from its local and causal construct (what we "call" reality) it is neccessary to break the habbit of thinking that mass/matter is a cause as opposed to an effect.

Eastern religious philosophy views the physical world (matter/mass)as an illusion. That the true reality is a a higher level of vibration or frequency.

Many Western religions incorporate the fact that the universe was created by a being of light who simply "said" it was so.

A sound (speech, song, vibration) eminating from a being of light, creating a serious of waves and patterns into the void at lower frequencies, inspiring the cosmic dance of particles that result in the illusion of mass. So be it.
 
Re: IS MASS AN ILLUSION? ANS:YES

It was my impression that a Merkaba is created by the manifistation of thought by an adept through meditation.
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Your impression is correct. The Merkaba Meditation is one way to use the power of the Merkaba geometry...the non-physical method. My studies of Qabalah have told me there is always a balanced solution of both physical and non-physical.

So it does not quite qualify as a "mechanical device".
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You're right, the meditation does not. But have you ever considered the construction of a physical Merkaba? The inner surfaces of the Merkaba can be used to form an "envelope of light" around the contents of the vehicle. And light is the key to time.

There is a 2-D analog in existence today of what the Merkaba could become in 3-D. We call it the Ring Laser Gyro. It uses mirrors in a triangular pattern to split a beam of light and reflect it in opposite directions to form an intereference pattern. Inasmuch as this device is used to sense rotational RATE, it is actually a time (rate) measuring device. But it is only a passive sensor.

Now consider what would happen if you built a version of this device that was not simply a passive sensor, but an active energy manipulator. It is my belief that there are two keys to developing the proper physical device: (1) The shape of the Merkaba (tetrahedral) and (2) The amplification and modulation technique used to form an active "envelope of light energy" within the vehicle.

I have advocated that if Time Travel were possible that it would most likely be through what we now call "spiritual" means by those who are advanced in those areas.
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I agree that this is the most direct means to time travel. It comes in understanding that we each have a spirit, and it is eternal. It has lived through all times of our linear past, and will live through all times to come in our linear future. Learning to bridge all of our physical lives will be the simplest means for us to experience time travel...but I also agree with you that this form is not "of the body", but rather "of the non-body". And at the same time I think it is possible to construct a physical Merkaba, and believe this technology to be behind what we see as UFOs.

We must align the "light within" and the "light without" and kick the frequency up a notch or we're doomed to count time clinging to this little old rock hurtling through space.
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Amen. We are, all of us, constructed of the same form and of the same material, in the grander scheme of physicality. Many have simply not "grown up" to what it means to be an eternal, spiritual being.

Be Well,
RMT
 
The reason it I (and others) believe that mass/matter is an illusion is because the "reality in which we exist" is a construct of our senses and an extension of our egos. Our eyes cannot see but a very small portion of the electromagnetic spectrum, therefore what we see is a manifestation of energy at a very low frequency, a harmonic of its true nature.
Click to expand...
I do not like the use of the word 'illusion' to describe reality. The word seems to give the connotation of 'falseness', that what we percieve of our world is wrong or untrue. It has the unfortunate effect of causing many a student to become confused and despaired upon encountering the possibility of this being so. And ultimately it is not very appropriate anyway. It is not that our perceptions themselves are false but rather our interpretation of those perceptions may be in error.

It is useful to introduce a few more terms to aid in the understanding of reality. I will offer one here: 'Actuality'. Actuality can be thought of as representing the way things are in and of themselves, apart from any interpretation by an observer. So now with this new term, we can accurately say that our realization or 'reality' may not correspond exactly to the actual nature of a thing observed.

Even though our senses can only respond to a limited spectrum they respond in a manner that must be consistent with natural law and therefore it is true. Reality, what is real, is that which is realized by the observer, irrespective of whether that realization is complete or partial. It is very important to make this distinction in order to deal with the psycology of explaining these concepts to an individual, and to differentiate between things that are fixed and unchangeable and that which is highly mutable.

Eastern religious philosophy views the physical world (matter/mass)as an illusion. That the true reality is a a higher level of vibration or frequency.
Click to expand...
Again, let us refer to the "true reality" as 'actuality', and let us continue to allow that our perceived reality is true (being caused by actual events) but perhaps incomplete or misunderstood.

Many Western religions incorporate the fact that the universe was created by a being of light who simply "said" it was so.
Click to expand...
This is of course an anthropomorphisation of the principles behind the origin of the universe. In other words, interpreting the causes in a manner of thinking that reflects what we think about our understanding of our human self.

A sound (speech, song, vibration) eminating from a being of light, creating a serious of waves and patterns into the void at lower frequencies, inspiring the cosmic dance of particles that result in the illusion of mass. So be it.
Click to expand...
Although perhaps poetic, this is such a mishmash of terms that it may mislead, away from an understanding that could be used in a scientific manner. Let us select only the term "vibration" as being the closest to actuality. Your phrase "A sound" can only be a metaphor, and "speech", and "song" are again anthropomorphisms of that metaphor.

And "being of light"? Isn't that a metaphor? After all, might not light be a manifestation of a somewhat lower order than the ultimate nature of the being from which it emanates? And "dance of particles"? Are "particles" any less illusory than mass?

Do you see the irony of calling mass an illusion when we find it so necessary to use illusion or 'allusion' to explain it? Can we accept that the behavioral property of 'matter' which we name 'mass' is a real characteristic and that perhaps only our interpretation of its nature is the thing that is illusory?
 
I think in terms of scientific description, 'Matter is an Illusion' is a fair description (though maybe not the only valid one).

After all if String Theory was ever proven (if it can be - and for those that need it) It would prove that the word 'matter' is not at all truth. After all if nothing has any mass at its core, then how can it be matter or material. The answer is - in reality (in truth), the idea of matter is a total illusion created by our own personal realities/perceptions. I'm sure there are a few people out there that understand the nature of the universe and speak the term 'matter' in purely a functional way. Really they know that what they are describing is not matter at all.

Even 'light' is only describing an effect not a 'thing' the light is not light of photons its pure state massless light. To our 'perceptions' it shouldn't actually be there. what creates the light is the cause of the effect and cannot be described in words as it creates words (words are material).

Solid objects are an illusion, as they're not solid at their fundamental levels. You could say that they don't even exist - at least in a material sense - they're not solid neither are they based in this reality.

I would also certainly agree with the term time is also 'light', And again in itself is an illusion created again by our own realities. I think that the best way to explain this is the pain/pleasure example.

In your own reality, holding your hand in a burning flame for a minute will be perceived as going on for hours and hours.

some one on the other side of the world having the time of his/her life (in their own reality) will perceive that very same minute as a passing second - if they notice at all.

which leads you to the same conclusion that time itself is an illusion to the observer - and in truth does not exist.

I read a very good point from some guy - i think he was both a remote viewer and also able to do the more advanced 'remote sensing'. He said (and this works, try it...) when you're walking down the street - are you walking down the road? or are you stationary and the road is coming to you? If you get into the right mindset, you'll experience a treadmill effect. Neither perceptions are 'wrong'. Just differing realities (states of mind. Or perception, if you will).

kind regards,

OllyB.
 
Hey Gerald, you're probably not Titor, just trying to follow any leads I can get. I'm sure the case will be cracked fairly soon.

Didn't Buddha believe pain was an illusion? Supposedly he grew up isolated from the outside world, that would drastically alter ones perception.

About mass being an illusion, energy = [illusion] x [the acceleration of the speed of light] ²

Doesn't sound right, heh.

--- Razimus
 
Interesting question.

If we consider recent experiments that have determined, to some extent, that matter is insignificant when considered among the forces controlling the expansion of the universe, or that a particle of light is massless and devoid of any inherent energy--not to mention its dual nature and associating non-local events...it doesn't take a great leap of the imagination to make the simple case that there is a "reality" behind the illusion. "Something" is "creating" the illusion. If the something that we call matter is an illusion, then the space that we call nothing must be the reality. To space we must attribute all the "forces" that enable mass to have an "appearance" of form.

We also know that the "forces" are also illusory. The insignificant mass, acted upon by the illusory "mass" of space (all of space, by the way--there is no discontinuity in space) create the forces that we measure. They, like particles, appear as different "forms" under quantum conditions. Time, of course, is also illusory as we all evidence every day. So, in effect, everything we experience is an illusion. The key to it all is attempting to perceive the reality. This is no small leap, for we have to change the increasingly complex perceptions of the "reality systems" as well as change our existing perception of what we perceive as reality.

On the quantum level, we know that the basic thesis for effect before cause(thereby allowing the manipulation of time) is not only valid at that level, but quite possibly on the macroscopic level as well. The "rivers of space/time" that connect particles, also connect the bodies of space and, interestingly, the Torah maps out these rivers of space time by way of 5-letter combinations that follow the constellations upon the curvature of a multitude of galactic planes. Rainman's mention of the Merkaba vehicle brings into the mix the question of "spiritual" time travel as opposed to the physical. There can be no physical travel without spiritualy involved. "By observing, we become changed". The very process of time travel changes you as you perceive that the "universe" is no furthur away than the blood in your veins. Again interestingly, the torah speaks of the day that we should not "despise the day of small things". It was speaking in reference to a "measuring rod" that was used to measure the merkaba vehicle. The curious thing is that the measuring rod was measuring at the atomic level. The merkaba is somehow transformed to the quantum level and crosses space/time instantly just as outlined in "effect before cause". In this way, I can also see the possibility of constructing a merkaba large enough to house a small city to travel among the stars. These would have to be true colonists for they would never return in our time frame. But, then again, maybe that's an illusion too!!
 
As always, Zerub... I could "feel" you out there lurking when this topic came up! /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif Glad you chimed-in.

Rainman's mention of the Merkaba vehicle brings into the mix the question of "spiritual" time travel as opposed to the physical. There can be no physical travel without spiritualy involved.
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Exactly. To me, and what I do for a living, it is simply a system design problem. Any system that accomplishes goals has PHYSICAL elements that perform the functions. But the FUNCTIONS themselves are elements of motion, and all motions are subject to the intervention of intelligence that controls motions. The domain of intelligence is what I call the OPERATIONAL domain, and it is reflected in what we know as Time.

Yes, we will need to build a physical Merkaba machine that amplifies/utilizes certain physical concepts ("the law of squares"). But that machine will have to be imbued with both SOFTWARE in the FUNCTIONAL domain, but also SPIRITWARE in the OPERATIONAL domain. In essence, I believe that a person who is not in touch with their functional selves (as exhibited by their soul) and their operational selves (as exhibited by the spirit) will have no inherent ability to control a physical Merkaba vehicle. Without soul and spirit, the physical Merkaba vehicle is nothing more than a cold chunk of matter, devoid of intelligence and innovation. This is exactly why the human body is a "naturally grown" Merkaba vehicle!


"By observing, we become changed".
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Another bingo. And once again I must relate it to the science of my profession: Observation is the key to any/all closed-loop control systems. The human body is one of many closed-loop control systems that appear both in nature and the creations of mankind. By observing an intelligent being that is capable of free choice can CREATE change.

It was speaking in reference to a "measuring rod" that was used to measure the merkaba vehicle. The curious thing is that the measuring rod was measuring at the atomic level. The merkaba is somehow transformed to the quantum level and crosses space/time instantly just as outlined in "effect before cause".
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Yes. I think the key is the Planck Length. The measure of physical length at which quantum effects take over. This is the level at which the "linear" world that we PERCEIVE around us changes into a highly non-linear energy field. That energy field can be exploited when we learn to manipulate energy below the Planck Length scale. It is the length at which we will come to understand that the dimension we call Space is far from "empty". What we perceive as "empty space" between planets and galaxies is actually a teaming ocean of life.

Keep up the great thoughts and contributions!
RMT
 
http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/space/10/20/warped.space/index.html

The above image is a very good example of the illusion involved as to what determines the "shape" of our planet. Obviously, if we look beyond the illusion, the planet is not determining its own shape and therefore the shape of space/time around it. Space, also known as gravity, aka strong/weak/nuclear forces, aka time--determines every aspect of the forces which our planet seems to generate. The gyros stationed at the Lagrange Point should give us a better idea of the shape of space/gravity. It is my hope that this will be the first understanding of the curvilinear shape of space/gravity and a truer understanding of the effect that is creating cause on this local level.
 
Re: IS MASS AN ILLUSION? ANS:YES

So it does not quite (Merkaba) qualify as a "mechanical device".
Click to expand...

But then again it might qualify as a "mechanical" device depending upon your definition of a mechanical device. Relative to the forces of creation , isn't everything a "mechanical" device, but operating at different vibrational rates?

As humanity, we are utilizing our abilities of creation and duplicating "mechanical" devices with the resources at hand. As the forces of the Universe utilizes the basic "ingredients" on hand, we do the same on a different scale.

As we become more knowledgeable of exactly what our resources are, or what there true nature may be, our creativity takes on new possibilities.

The key would seem to be a method of combining the "spiritual" aspects of time travelling possiblities with the worldly aspects and duplicating them on a physical level.

Can a Merkaba be constructed from the resources available on the physical level, and eliminating the need to be an Adept of meditation and ritual?
 
Hey all! I've recently stumbled across this forum, and I have been loving all of the discussion. It's very refreshing to see people thinking!

My 2 cents (scents?):

To say that mass is an illusion is both accurate and inaccurate. Mass, as reality, is illusion. The concept of mass is not.

1st point:
Mass, as any other perceived "event" is just that; perceived. therefore, it is limited by the interpretation of the perceiver. So, to say that mass is "real" is a blind leap beyond that which is defined as mass. I don't think that it is possible to define anything as real when, by definition, there is no way of perceiving objectively. Then again, it depends on your definition of reality, doesn't it?

2nd point:
If everything (matter, energy, whatever) is infinitely divisible, as would be the case if matter and energy can not be created or destroyed, then it is conceivable that what appears "massless" is in fact quite "massive" when viewed from a different perspective, and vice versa. So, mass as a definition of a perceived event is quite valid. It's simply a way of defining observed phenomena.

Like I said, I'm new to this forum, so I have no idea if my points are old hat, but I hope I'm adding something valid to the discussion. I look forward to further discussion!
 
One of Einstein's laws prohibits any mass from attaining the speed of light. Basically, his law states that as any "solid object" tries to increase its speed, its mass increases towards infinity due to inertia. As its mass increases with higher velocities, it takes more and more energy to accelerate it. The faster it goes, the more its mass increases and it becomes impossible for it to attain light speed because it would take an infinite amount of energy.

In this case then, how does light reach the speed of light? What properties does a photon have that allow it to attain light speed (and can we apply those properties for the Merkaba) ?

A photon is made up of sub-atomic particles, and so is everything else. We all know that sub- atomic particles have no mass--- so how can a "massful" object be made out of "massless" material?

Energy is the sub-atomic particles that come together to "make up" atoms, which come together to "make up" matter. Matter is not converted energy, it is energy.
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And to elaborate on E = mc2. This equation states that for a particle at rest, its mass is equal to its energy - period!.

The c2 is there as a constant just in case your units of space and time don't match. If you've chosen to measure space in one arbitrary unit and time in another arbitrary unit, and if you have not taken the trouble to connect the two units, then, for your system you have to put in the c2.

If you're going to measure space in centimeters, then time must not be measured in seconds. It must be measured in jiffies. (A jiffy is the length of time it takes light to go one centimeter).

The universe is too large to be measured conveniently in centimeters, and quite a bit too old to be measured conveniently in seconds; so we measure the time in years and the distance in light-years, and the units correspond.

That "c" in the equation is the speed of light in this system of units, and if you've chosen years and light-years then the speed of light, in this system is one. And if you square it, it's still one, and the equation doesn't change.

The equation simply says that energy and mass are the same thing.
 
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