Civil War 2005

History note.

Note that at this time, the Toyota Preus has come out with their new automobiles.

They are state of the art, and very efficient.

If there is going to be a civil war, then fully electrical vehicle, would be of important, if petroleum pumping, in some way would be hampered.
 
to believe that terrorists like those of Al Qaeda are not smart enough to wage PsyOp terror. In fact, I fully expect it.

RMT,

Astute.

Over the course of the past two and a half decades we seem to have forgotten the definition of terrorism.

Terrorism is a religious or political act of aggression by irregular forces that is designed to cause mass casualties and/or destruction on a local scale. It has the underlying intent to instill a sense of fear and vulnerability in the general public of future such actions that far exceeds the terrorists' actual ability to carry out the threat.

Terrorism is by definition PsyOps.
 
if you can't see the beginnings of a possible civil war in this country your not looking hard enough. we're at war in 2 diff countries, a war that now only 30% approve of, we're spending billions of dollars, going deeper into debt, losing american lives at an alarming rate, and everyday there's another suicide bomber somewhere in iraq.

back home we've got rove releasing the name of a CIA undercover, bush lying about the war (downing street memo), 500,000+ people signing a petition to bush asking for answers, to which he will not even respond. we've got WTC survivors filing lawsuits claiming there were explosions in the basement, and information that the buildings and specifically WTC 7 may have been taken down with demolition explosives in a pre-planned event.

oil above 60 a barrel, gas above $2.25 everywhere I go at least. Job market is scarce, economy is not doing too well, outsourcing millions of jobs.

and you can't see the possible beginnings of a civil war? this was just a brief summary of the last 4-5 years, imagine where we will be in 2008. There has even been talk about impeaching the president, for something a lot more serious than getting it on with an intern.

I can see what you are saying, and I think by looking at it from a more impartial (Albeit slightly anti-Bush) point of view, I can see why people think that Titor was right. I think that if he wasn't a time traveler he was one preceptive individual, and there could be a civil war, even if the Titor story was BS, as I've said before wouldn't it be ironic (In the Alanis Morrisette sense of the word /ttiforum/images/graemlins/tongue.gif) if Titor was talking BS, but there was a civil war anyway.
 
The following is for entertainment purposes only. The ideas expressed in the following post may not be endorsed by the poster.
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What if...

1. What if we already have been in a civil war for some time now? For years, there has been a growing divergence of beliefs in this country. In the 1800's it was slavery, today it's abortion, homosexual marriage, the war, the economy, etc. The only difference is that this war has not been fought, so far, with weapons of destruction, but with weapons of office. The elected. And the numbers show that the sides are pretty even.

2. What if there was a tip of the scales in the balance that has naturally developed over the last few decades? What if the "the settled law of the land" suddenly gets turned on its head?

3. What if gas never gets below $2 again?

4. What if, in the balance of security vs. liberty, the majority choose the former?

5. What if we aren't as free as we think we are?

It's fun to play the what if game. But in the end, no one knows for sure how the next 5 years plays out. No one knows for certain that they will even make it through today.
 
It's fun to play the what if game. But in the end, no one knows for sure how the next 5 years plays out. No one knows for certain that they will even make it through today.
I agree that it is fun to play the "what if" game. And yet I am always amazed by the people that would rather play the "what if" game where they string together a progression of negative events that lead to a bigger negative event. IOW, the "gloom and doom" outlook. One must ask if it is realistic (i.e. does Nature exhibit such all-negative progressions) that all these negative events would line-up in the proper sequence. Similarly, one must also look at folks that would string together a whole sequence of overly positive events that lead to a bigger positive event. Would this be realistic, given how we see Nature and reality evolve? I'd say no.

The one big truth that our universe exhibits on the physical level is that of balance & interaction between opposites. Balance between Matter and Motion, in the plane of Energy. The inherent balance exhibited by the proven laws of Conservation of Energy and Momentum. And it always seems as if there is a balance between Good and Evil, no matter how much we want to claim that Evil is prevalent or Good is prevalent... it always seems to come out to a draw, and it seems like that is how it should be.

In this vein, let me propose my own "what if" line of questioning:

WHAT IF all humans finally came to a single realization and agreement about the SCIENCE (physical) and SPIRITUAL (non-physical) nature of Being? And WHAT IF we used this knowledge to forever change our reality such that we always know that Energy must be balanced? And WHAT IF we all understood that the Powers of Creation (Inward Sprial) & Destruction (Outward Spiral) are nothing more than a Conscious Being who sets-out, and sees to fulfillment, a series of WHAT IF questions about Who and What I/We wish to become in the future?

Does not "the collective" of I+We control our future? Is this not Truth? It certainly is true on the material level of physicality.
RMT
 
RMT,

A comment in there about balance of Good and Evil put a really interesting thought in my mind. On the surface, I think that most people would desire a world in which nothing bad happened. Where there is only Good. BUT, without Evil, how can there be Good? Interesting. I think there would just be existence. No knowledge or presence of Evil would be just existence. Not Good.

UNLESS!!!!!!

There is a transcendent entity that "hovers" over that existence. Then, the determination of Good and Evil would be relative to that entity...not within the existence. Therefore, it would be possible to eliminate Evil and still have what is considered Good...according to the transcendent entity.

Cool. Never thought of that before.
 
Does not "the collective" of I+We control our future? Is this not Truth? It certainly is true on the material level of physicality.

I'd agree with that, and if everyone on the planet agreed, that would probably offset the balance of good and evil. What happens then? Would evil have to catch up eventually?

I'm going to go throw some trash on the street just in case... (kidding!) I think we could have a world free of evil. As long as we know what it feels like to be hungry, stub our toes, bite our cheeks, break an ankle, I think that's enough to maintain the balance.
 
For'random searches' read 'search any one who looks like a muslim', more like. I guess I'm just a cynical bastard, but I certainly wouldn't be suprised if it turns out that way.
 
For'random searches' read 'search any one who looks like a muslim', more like. I guess I'm just a cynical bastard, but I certainly wouldn't be suprised if it turns out that way.
Well, I'd say it is a helluva lot better than "randomly" selecting the 80 year old grandmother for airplane boarding searches so we can avoid the perception that we are targeting young, Muslim Arabs! I've seen this happen in airports, and it is ludicrous! I mean let's get serious. There IS a demographic associated with Islamist terrorists. I am sorry for the law abiding Muslims that this is so, but you shouldn't ignore simple probabilities and statistics just because you want to be politically correct! SHEESH! In being politically correct, you run the risk of actually allowing a potential terrorist to get by, and THEN what would the people say after the fact? At that point everyone would want to know why you didn't search the perp!

RMT
 
They've been doing that for a while, just now publicized. I was in Penn the other day and they asked someone to open up a suitcase.

I havn't read any of the laws regarding Homeland Security, but I know if I chose to under NYS law I could sue a police officer who decided to go through my bag. And I would have an argument with any army personnell who decided to try it. In the end the ranking army officer there would have a look, but not after having a thorough argument.

I've already done the same thing with photography, the laws dictate that inside NYC subway is considered private propery being as how you have to pay to get in. During the RNC of last year I didn't bother, they went to extreme lengths to make a point and I didn't have time to sit in a holding cell. Normally (Penn station being one of my favorite photo points) Unless they feel the pictures I'm taking are a 'threat to national security' they can't do jack. I had my camera nearly taken away by a police officer, I objected and quoted him the law, he got a soldier to come over who didn't even see what I was taking a picture of. Eventually, after some quiet arguing to the side, I got his commanding (and Ranking) officer to come over and we had a talk out. I 'convinced' him that I was in no way a threat to national security and got to keep my film.. which at that point was already out of my camera, I wasted half a roll, but I have that picture of controversy pinned to my wall as a constant reminder.

Basically, people put up with it because they really don't know any better. I could have been arrested, and chances are a judge wouldn't even hear of it and just labeled me as 'unpatriotic.' But luckily the people I talked to knew the laws, unfortunately many people made to uphold them do not. Don't follow blindly. The best protection is to KNOW YOUR RIGHTS.


EDIT:
http://wireservice.wired.com/wired/story.asp?section=Breaking&storyId=1066966&tw=wn_wire_story
More idiocy.
 
Hey, sorry to jump in on the middle of the thread but I have been following the John Titor story for sometime now and with the recent events I had to get on a board and see if people were talking about it.

-Some of the stuff that comes to mind would have to be that poor guy in London who was shot 8 times to death in the streets and was later found to have nothing to do with terroism at all and had nothing illigal on him what so ever, shot dead.....for nothing.

-Then the very next day I here that they are starting to randomly search people in New York and in New Jersey. No cause, no warrant, no reason.....if thats not a violation of civil liberties than I don't know what is. Warrantless searches as predicted.

-And just the other day I read about a flight from Los Angeles, CA bound for London that was grounded mid-flight in Boston, MA because someone onboard felt the the Pakistani gentlemen were acting suspicious by using the bathroom a couple of times. I mean come on, it's a 12 hour flight, come on who wouldn't have to use the restroom a couple of times with all the drinks they give you. Absolutly ridiculous.

Anyways I just wanted to see if that struck anyone else as a little over the top.

JazzyJ
 
Technically they're not doing anything wrong, you pay to take the subway and the LIRR. It's like getting searched to go to a rextaraunt, if you don't wanna get searched, don't eat there.

Now if they were to stop you in the street, that would be a different story, and we're not too far from that. When that happens you'll likely see a news story about how I was shot in the street screaming about something called 'liberties.' Though it won't happen for a while, even Bush isn't that stupid. Though god known when the last time he read a constitution.

On a flight from JFK new york to the DC area you're not even allowed to stand and there are 2 marshals on the plane. Yet those planes couldn't even do that much damage. I think the world could take a note from EL-AL, the safest airline in the world, though constantly under attack for things that they do which cause them to be the safest. It's just ridiculous.
 
First of all, greetings.

Now on with this interesting thread.

I like playing 'what if' games, and the one at the start of this thread about the president of the usa leaving office one way or another made me think how he would be encouraged to leave office.
The only credible ones I could come up with were, 1:assassination, and 2:ill health.
Out of the 2 , number 1 is fairly likely by a degree of say 80%, maybe not americans, but certainly a real possibility. But the one I feel is more than likely is number 2, due to the stress of the wars, being told by many people he is wrong, and the numerous reports arriving on his desk everyday about certain groups having 'issues', then I could see this happening.

As for the civil war in the usa, well, gun law is such there, that many people have ready access to arms, it's a given that anyone has the right, as you know in your constitution to carry them. I would like to ask those that live in the usa, have you seen restrictions being put into place on the type of guns you may own. Have there been any increases in numbers of guns allowable, also is there a restriction on the number of rounds you may own?
Have you noticed an increase in the types of licenses required for said arms?

I believe that many freedoms have already been eroded, communications increasingly monitored, and our way of life certainly changing in ways our parents would never have imagined. I also believe that the usa is entering a phase that will see it eventually fail in its attempt at world wide imperialism, I suppose like england, you will soon realise that you can only push the average joe so far, eventually he will push back, and the outcome? Who really knows? John Titor? Maybe...
 
i think you can have as many guns and as much ammo as you want... and i believe since they didnt reinstate the assault rifle ban you can pretty much have any gun you want... but only something like 40% of us households have a gun
 
There are probably many reasons why the U.S. as well as other countries could go into civil war, the articles mentioned, might be some of these reasons?


http://channels.netscape.com/ns/homerealestate/feature.jsp?story=takehomeaway&floc=RE-1_T

States Trying to Blunt Property Ruling

By MAURA KELLY LANNAN
Associated Press Writer


CHICAGO (AP)--Alarmed by the prospect of local governments seizing homes and turning the property over to developers, lawmakers in at least half the states are rushing to blunt last month's U.S. Supreme Court ruling expanding the power of eminent domain.

In Texas and California, legislators have proposed constitutional amendments to bar government from taking private property for economic development. Politicians in Alabama, South Dakota and Virginia likewise hope to curtail government's ability to condemn land.
Even in states like Illinois--one of at least eight that already forbid eminent domain for economic development unless the purpose is to eliminate blight--lawmakers are proposing to make it even tougher to use the procedure.

"People I've never heard from before came out of the woodwork and were just so agitated," said Illinois state Sen. Susan Garrett, a Democrat. "People feel that it's a threat to their personal property, and that has hit a chord."

The Institute for Justice, which represented homeowners in the Connecticut case that was decided by the Supreme Court, said at least 25 states are considering changes to eminent domain laws.

The Constitution says governments cannot take private property for public use without "just compensation." Governments have traditionally used their eminent domain authority to build roads, reservoirs and other public projects. But for decades, the court has been expanding the definition of public use, allowing cities to employ eminent domain to eliminate blight.

In June, the Supreme Court ruled 5-4 that New London, Conn., had the authority to take homes for a private development project. But in its ruling, the court noted that states are free to ban that practice--an invitation lawmakers are accepting in response to a flood of e-mails, phone calls and letters from anxious constituents.

"The Supreme Court's decision told homeowners and business owners everywhere that there's now a big `Up for Grabs' sign on their front lawn," said Dana Berliner, an attorney with the Institute for Justice. "Before this, people just didn't realize that they could lose their home or their family's business because some other person would pay more taxes on the same land. People are unbelievably upset."

Don Borut, executive director of the National League of Cities, which backed New London in its appeal to the high court, said government's eminent domain power is important for revitalizing neighborhoods. He said any changes to state law should be done after careful reflection.

"There's a rush to respond to the emotional impact. Our view is, step back, let's look at the issue in the broadest sense and if there are changes that are reflected upon, that's appropriate," he said.

In Alabama, Republican Gov. Bob Riley is drawing up a bill that would prohibit city and county governments from using eminent domain to take property for retail, office or residential development. It would still allow property to be taken for industrial development, such as new factories, and for roads and schools.

In Connecticut, politicians want to slap a moratorium on the use of eminent domain by municipalities until the Legislature can act.

One critic of the ruling has suggested local officials take over Supreme Court Justice David Souter's New Hampshire farmhouse and turn it into a hotel. Souter voted with the majority in the Connecticut case.

http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/ns/news/story.jsp?idq=/ff/story/0001%2F20050806%2F1338818312.htm&sc=1107&photoid=20050806BAG114&ewp=ewp_news_iraq3



Bombs Becoming Biggest Killers in Iraq




BAGHDAD, Iraq (AP) - Bombs like the titanic roadside blast that killed 14 Marines last week are becoming the biggest killers of U.S. troops in Iraq, surpassing bullets, rockets and mortars, as insurgents wage an unconventional war that has boosted the American death toll beyond 1,820.

This isn't a conflict like the World Wars or Vietnam, where waves of enemy ground troops backed by artillery attacked American firebases. Gone too are the intense street battles waged last year in cities like Najaf, Karbala and Fallujah, or in Nasiriyah during the 2003 invasion.

Americans still die in mortar strikes and gunfights, like the six Marine snipers killed Aug. 1 in a rebel ambush. But surprise blasts - when the road erupts without warning or an explosives-packed car disintegrates into a fireball - have become the hallmarks of the Iraq war.

Since the end of May, more than 65 percent of U.S. military deaths in Iraq have resulted from insurgent bombings, compared to nearly 23 percent in conventional combat and 12 percent in accidents, according to figures complied by The Associated Press.

Sunday, Aug. 7

Iraq Coalition Casualty Count [ICasualties]


In Depth Look At The War in Iraq [CNN]


Assistance For Iraq [USAID]


Getting the Tone Right [The New York Times]


Images of Baghdad: Iraq War Photos [Webshots]




Can We Win in Iraq? [Netscape Community]


Blog: Healing Iraq [Healing Iraq]





In recent weeks, rebel bombs have been responsible for 70 percent to 80 percent of American soldiers killed or wounded, command spokesman Lt. Col. Steven Boylan said this week.


Of the 54 American troops who died in Iraq in July, 42 were killed either by roadside bombs, car bombs or in one case a land mine. So far this month, 29 soldiers and Marines have died - all but nine from bombs.


These figures document an evolution in rebel tactics. Looking back to the start of the U.S.-led war in March 2003, about 32 percent of American military deaths have been from improvised explosions, suicide bombs or other such blasts - compared to about 48 percent in firefights and other combat. Just over 19 percent died in accidents.


The insurgent bomb strategy is frustrating for American troops, who watch their comrades die without being able to retaliate as they've been trained: with punishing return fire.


Instead, the bombs are either piloted to their target by a suicide driver or detonated remotely by an attacker who can disappear into a crowd of civilians.


``That's the insurgent strategy, this pervasive insecurity. You can't fight against an unseen enemy,'' said RAND Corp. counterinsurgency expert Bruce Hoffman.


Iraq has turned into a struggle that pits Americans' conventional arms against gritty rebel innovation.


As Americans have added armor, the insurgent bombs - which the U.S. military refers to as Improvised Explosive Devices or IEDs - have gotten bigger.


Guerrillas have learned in more than two years of fighting how to make their bombs invisible and far more deadly, while taking fewer casualties themselves.


In the early days of the occupation, American soldiers would find rudimentary bombs hidden in trash bins, buried along the side of roads and hidden in drink cans and even roadkill carcasses.


The U.S. military picked up on these techniques and began cleaning roadsides, chopping down trees and clearing brush. The insurgents responded by burying bombs under gravel or asphalt.


One new bomb design features a steel plate underneath that directs the blast up into a passing vehicle. Another fires a solid steel penetrator that can pierce the armor on a Bradley Fighting Vehicle, officers and analysts say.


In January, IEDs destroyed a Bradley Fighting Vehicle and an Abrams tank - two of the most heavily armored vehicles in the U.S. arsenal.


In some cases, the detonations have been so huge that American vehicles are ripped apart as thoroughly as a suicide bomber's car. On Wednesday, a gargantuan blast from a bomb hidden by rebels who tunneled under a road outside Haditha engulfed a 25-ton troop carrier, throwing it 30 feet and killing 14 Marines and their civilian translator.


That bomb was invisible to passing troops. Some who'd heard about the investigation said there weren't even any marks on the road to offer clues that explosives lay under the pavement.


The bomb was probably triggered by a hidden observer, who detonated it under the second-to-last vehicle in the convoy - a packed troop carrier.


``I've lost eight buddies in a week,'' Army Spc. William ``Shane'' Parham, a sheriff's deputy from Walton County, Ga., serving in a Baghdad-based unit, told an embedded reporter for The Atlanta Journal-Constitution. ``Nobody trained us to get blown up like this.''


Although the number of vehicle and roadside bombings is decreasing, U.S. commanders warn they are rising in explosive power and sophistication - enough for the Pentagon to establish an IED Task Force.


The number of combat deaths blamed on IEDs jumped from about 26 percent in 2004 to 51 percent as of early June 2005, according to a report from the Center for Strategic and International Studies in Washington

*Note only half the articles are taken out of text, for time travlers, incase these articles should be taken out of circulation:
 
Re: Titor Was BS - Party Planning

Yeah I saw it, there is nothing like everyone realizes “something” about AMERICA. He is saying about everyone in the WORLD. So he did not mean the CIVIL WAR thing in US. MANY USE THIS INTERPRETATION, which I guess is a BIG blunder.

If Titor is real, it has to be 2005 or else he wasn’t telling the Truth. Please note, I am NOT EXPECTING a civil war.

Something big like a natural disaster could Trigger it in 2005, so that was the reason Titor wasn’t specific about it (2005 and 2004) cuz it is conflicting with his THREE rules. These things were already interpreted and discussed and only time will give an answer.
Again, I am not hoping for a DISATER, don’t call me a terrorist, I am saying if Titor is real, this could be the answer cuz no civil war started in 2004 and nothing seems like POLITICS would Trigger it in 2005.

Some people believe that oil may peak permanently in late november 2005. That would be more than enough to cause civil strike across the country, due to our weak infrastructure, no one would be able to escape it and everyone would feel it. "Does anybody live normally during the civil war?

No, they do not."

He says that it starts in 2004, but that would be like saying political and social instability is starting between the north and the south. Remember him saying it's more of a "civil conflict" in which armed groups manuever. An oil peak would cause unemployment, possibly riots between civilians and police, would create massive economic destruction across the planet. "People will realize in 2008 that nothing would ever be the same" another parallel to the peak oil scenario, some theorize the real effects of the peak (200 dollar oil) will be in 2008. The similarities are are very unsettling. Everything I'm seeing and reading on the news feels like it's leading towards it.

The peak oil vs. skeptics are very similar to this argument right here. "Well there's evidence to the contrary and you can't predict the future so I guess we'll just have to wait and see." In both cases evidence exists but not enough evidence to be concrete in it's entirety. In both cases time will tell.

It just all depends on where your jugdment lies and in the end, intuition versus intuition will be confirmed. 2005 isn't over yet boys and girls.

EDIT: There is a link between 2005 - 2008 in the peak oil scenario in that we may be just at a beginning of a peak and reach the other end, the decline, in 2008. HAve any of you looked at prices of oil from 2000 to 2005? It's an exponential increase in price, the beginning of a bell curve like in the peak-oil scenario's mathematical prediction.
 
Just an example:

Hitler started and no one really knew what he was doing. He lasted quite a long time, enough time to have to develop the atomic bomb, before he did!

Having a different perspective may be just as important as not having one, and not really thinking about it like most people are doing. On the one hand, most people will think that security is good, and feel safer, and may be not really safer. On the other hand, one reading Titor may get the idea that the only Freedom going around is for those selfish enough to be using it for their own purposes.

Bad Decisions vs. Good Decisions is what Titor mentioned. That there (at least to him) were not good or bad people, just good or bad decisions!

I think that I know personalities enough to equate the above that starts out looking like a good idea but in the end turns out to be a bad idea. That is Freedom vs. Security. Security leaves people to depend on someone else to save the day, and the results can be seen to have happened, now in the USA, Spain, and England, with Italy forecast and further England things coming, although one never knows really what will happen next.

People who afford the gas prices say so what, I just have to pay it. But there are around 40 million Americans who like me, have been some what (at least in my case) discriminated upon, still are, and like others only losing their job to this so-called free-trade crap, have not the money to continue to buy gasoline to make it to a job. Either it is the gas, and nothing else, or something like eating less, all of which Titor mentioned.

Anti-social factions of undetermined brain warps!
That means that some people do not really care if people go homeless, but I grant that since some people are the biggest liars in the World, and even some are in the Government, I am still in a position to become a lawyer when I retire maybe, and make those idiots pay for their selfishness, and phony-ness!

Now, since some recent local happenings, that how mad other may get, but not enough to be able to become a lawyer.

I don't care how may College Degrees you have, when push comes to shove, there will always be people when pushed far enough will take up arms, and say the rest of your self-servicing acts can go to Hell!

That has not been me in the Past, but still, the Better America is being done not by them, a little by me, and the results are -- if You can not practice what you preach -- then do not preach anything!

And the Government with some like to preach, and then they always think they are funny for running other people around. The results are negative feelings enough to end up like Hitler started, while people in Germany listened to him, but I think that in the USA, there will not be people listening to over-inflated egos of self-servicing thought processes!

That means at least to me, that some people never have paid any type of fine, using a corporation as an excuse to do their dirty deeds, exactly like U.S. West in the Past, and others in other corporations and now it has changed somewhat but when people in charge react to slow as they seem to do (the Border Patrol is a good example) people get fed up doing their work, trying to make a living, and listening the crap coming out of their heads, or the no thinking process going on in their heads~!

Don't insult people just because they do not make money. There may be many reasons why they do not!
One is the insults that results from both political parties, while preaching what they do not practice. Any one with a brain also may know that, and not say it for fear of further being discriminated upon. But since there is a God, only Grace will come from God, and the results may be that other people were actually:

Anti-social factions of undetermined brain warps!
 
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