Hi Ren,
Good to see you back here every once in awhile...and nice to spar with you from time to time!
I stand firm that when my 80 year old grandmother tells me she thinks there could be a civil war, that somehow, the signs are there...
I'd imagine then, that you would also stand firm with respect to everything you say about me below not living through the civil war as also applying to your grandmother. Right? To use your own words, since she did not live through it, she can make NO comparisons. BTW, my parents are a year shy of 80 and they see nothing that would indicate a civil war... at least nothing anywhere close to our real civil war.
waco type events, hell I see them everyday, in IRAQ.
This argument you are using is making a case for potential civil war in Iraq, not the US. And I would certainly agree that this potential is real. In fact, if we were to bail out of Iraq right now, I would wager that a civil war would erupt...in Iraq. However, nothing you've said yet has explained why we would have a civil war here in the US! To make my point: How many civil wars do you know of that occurred because of military actions in some OTHER country?
hell even the London Bombings could be seen as a waco type event.
Please explain how, as I see NO similarities! Waco was government action against people. Londdon was nothing more than terrorist acts against civilians. There is literally no comparison between Waco and the London bombings. Unless you think there is a similarity between 9/11 and Waco... /ttiforum/images/graemlins/confused.gif
This is ludicrous you can't speak for a timeframe like that, you weren't there... You can draw no comparisons.
Well, historians of today did not live through most of the events in history that they study and report on. Yet they draw comparisons, and thank goodness, because it is the comparisons that historians draw that help us avoid repeating historical mistakes! (Like civil wars!) Anyway... what you say here actually supports my postion: There are no REAL comparisons between the civil war and our current events. The American Civil War happened because of secession over a single, important human rights issue: Slavery. If you can point to an issue of today that is as emotionally charged, and divisive as slavery is, such that it affects people HERE in the US, then I will listen. Otherwise, I will have to point out that times were VERY tough in the US during Vietnam (which I DID live through, so don't tell me I can't make comparisons there) and yet we did NOT erupt in civil war over that! You need to explain to me why current events are WORSE than Vietnam, and so MUCH worse that we will erupt into civil war. Personally, I don't see it.
but only time will tell on this one, give it a few more years and if by 2008 you still don't see it, I will re-evaluate my thinking
So until then you are going to continue to be a cheerleader for civil war?
the civil war I speak of is really the division between the haves and have nots. perhaps you HAVE and therefore unlike most of the rest of us without cushy well paying jobs, nice cars and houses, the ones living paycheck to paycheck (and there are a lot of us), you do not see how bad it has gotten.
This is a separate issue, and you really want to get my ire going on this one? Do you realize that the kind of words you use here are the kinds of words that are actually meant to INCITE what we call class warfare? Let me ask you: Is it actually the "haves" fault that the "have nots" have not? Or let me make it more personal: Is it MY fault that because I worked my ass off in college, and that I had a dream to be an aerospace engineer, and that I had a vision of living in a nice house near the beach, AND that I did everything I needed to in order to achieve those dreams... is it MY FAULT that there are people out there who do not know how to make their dreams come true? The American dream is not free, my friend. It is paid for by SWEAT EQUITY. And all the success stories of people who come here from foreign lands, with almost nothing in their pocket, are testament to the fact that this country is free and ANYONE can achieve their dreams if they are willing to do what it takes.
Please don't incite class warfare, Ren, unless you know what it takes to become one of the "haves". If you consider yourself a "have not" I feel sorry for you. However, it does not mean you will forever be a "have not", unless you are not willing to put in the time and effort to realize your dreams.
You are the Haves and therefore no doubt you have No idea what I'm talking about.
Dude, I WAS a "have not" through 4.5 years of college! Don't tell me I don't understand this kind of life. It was pretty terrible, and I was eating tuna fish and mac-n-cheese every night. But the important thing was I had a solid vision in my head, and I was NOT going to let ANYONE deprive me of it. Anyone can do the same. Don't give me the argument that people who have achieved their dreams are somehow responsible for people who didn't have the persistence to achieve their own dreams. Like I say, you are using words that incite class warfare, and that would tend to make you are person who WANTS to see a civil war!
And so, I must once again ask you a pointed question...one that you ignored and I would really like you to not ignore it, and answer it point-blank:
Do you WANT to see a civil war, Ren?
Because from your rhetoric, it certainly sounds as if you are sitting there all primed-up and just ready to see anarchy break loose...just so you can say "I told you so". Another pertinent question for you, Ren:
What are YOU doing to PREVENT a civil war (assuming, that is, that you don't want one to occur)?
RMT
