Anti-Time Travel

TimeTravelActivist

Dimensional Traveler
Doesn't anyone think that Time Travel is unethical? I mean, your changing the past for God's Sakes. It's violating someone's free will to do with his life as he chooses. And we go back in time and alter it for God knows what reasons we may have to change the past. Anyone out there feel that Time Travel is wrong? Please check out my website: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Atrium/9822/ .

I mean not to want to stand in the way of progress, but enough is enough. Don't you see? Cloning, Genetic Engineering, mapping the human genome. All are about control. We have become obsolete, is the message we will continue to hear for years to come. Having to go through all this just to keep up with the rest of society. Companies will own our Genetic Patterns, they will have copy rights to them.

Am I the only one who see the significant down fall this will play to our souls? We are selling out, and we will never be the same if we continue to have accepted thoughts about what's going on. Please, I urge you all. Consider if you will, the aspects of Time Travel having a down side to them. The risks are not wroth it. Trust me...

How do I know this? Because I have felt it all my life, that's why. It's time to put a stop to Time Travel Violators, claiming to want to change the past for our own benefit. It's exploitation, it's infringement of our free will and rights. And those are things that are humanity's only absolutes. The End does not Justify the means...

-Javier Cortez

P.S. E-mail me to [email protected] if you'd like to comment on what I said. Thank-you.
 
It really depends for what reason that person wants to time travel!!

There are the good and the evil - there should be a vetting system.
 
Well, we're only human. No matter what, we're going to screw with things we shouldn't mess with.

Anyway, don't worry. If someone time travels, they leave our universe and create an other one. So anything he does to screw time up, he's effected by it, not us.
 
It's that kind of accepted attitude I am talking about. Look at your views. There so easily accepted... When was the last time any of you stood up for what you believed in. When was the last time you knew something was not right? Did you guys vote for Clinton? Did you feel guilty for voting for him the second time?

America is so lazy now, and it's people only stand up to wrong when it has something selfish to say.

Complain complain complain, but only about them selves. Why not complain about something that affect the whole world? If someone were to Time Travel, it's because we let them. We have nothing further to lose, because we have already lost our souls.

Where are you peoples sense of morals at? How can you allow for this to happen? It's a sad sad world we live in.

And people that want to help make it a better place, are coinsidered crazy (like me) and thought of as out of touch. So bring on your comments and arguments for not caring. It's only obvious there will be some.

-Javier C.
 
Don't be so narrow minded. Technology is neither good nor bad, it is the use of it that makes it so. You actually listed the Human Genome project as a bad thing? I just heard they are releasing findings on how to eliminate Asthma completely by turning off the genes that cause it. That is a good.. no GREAT thing!

If you believe strongly in God and fear this is somehow tampering with his will consider this - nothing happens unless it is Gods will that it does so. If God didn't want man to discover these things it wouldn't happen. Man is not a God - we aren't making the rules. If God choses to let us advance then that is what we are to do. If God doesn't want man to dvelop a technology to travel in time it won't happen. How could you even worry that man could interfere with Gods plan - EVERYTHING that happens does so because God wills it to.

Whatever Gods plan is no man can know it. So just relax and enjoy the ride.

Novice
 
Well, obviously your Pro-Time Travel. This area is for Anti-Time Travel. I'm not a narrow minded person. Cause if I was, I wouldn't believe that time travel would be possible. So that scratches that off the list. And second, I didn't say that all science advancements are bad. It's when they are miss used and when we as society are OK with that, is when it's wrong. You somehow must have not gotten that concept in my first post. I detailed, so there would be no confusion on what I was saying. Oh well, next time read carefully.

Third, God. Human or not. Or whatever your idea he may be to you or anyone else. Isn't in control of everything we do. He does not tell us when and how to live, he's only made suggestions and way to be good people. We are all individuals with minds of our own. We either do good, or do bad in this life. And it's up to the big guy to decide where we go from there. It's not already decided that some people will go to heaven and others will go to hell. People change, and you never know that until the end what the outcome will be. So to debunk your statement of there being a master plan, it's completely false. Goes against the laws of coincidence and physics to think that there is this Supernatural Force, like Superman or Batman saving us from harm 24/7. That just doesn't happen. He can't control the thoughts of people, and make them do what he wants them to do, so that others may not be harmed. Just turn on your t.v. to the news. It happens everyday. People die everyday, get killed or maned. Those are people's actions. People are capable of doing Evil. God cannot stop that.

But anyway's, the original post wasn't on Theology. Please respond to the original post at the top please. Let's get back on track here.

Regards,
Javier C.
 
TTactivist,
You, seem to have a fairly clear vision of that which is plain to see. The majority of the human race doesn't have that "problem". This aside I feel that you are barking up the wrong tree in your worries about time travel. In the end, time travel may be the only escape from the self serving idiots that run (or is that ruin) this planet.
 
Ok so on second thought time travel is one more dangerous power to fool with. Call it a charactor flaw on my part, but when I see somebody playing with matches and gas, I figure that it is too late for the "Smokey the Bear lecture" and just run like hell. Why get worked up over it. Save your own butt, that will be chore enough in the comming days.
 
You wouldn't be thinking that if you were being controlled and your life was being altered without you knowing about it. Time Travel changes circumstances in people's lives, that without it, would have come to an alternate conclusion.

For example: A bright young college man goes to college to become a doctor that would someday save hundreds of lives and discover medical break throughs. But someone in the future want's that credit to go to someone else who he feels will use the fame in a more political way to benefit his cause. So he then decides to send someone after him to kill him, say in car accident. His work goes to his colleague who ends up getting full credit for his work and gains control in some way or another.

So as you can see, this person who had his whole future ahead of him, was not just manipulated, but controlled to the point where he got killed. If he knew this would happen, and talked about it, and told as many people as he could that time travel was wrong. Would you think he was barking up the wrong tree? Would he be a bad person for pointing out the ethical dilemma this would put people in?

In how people are destroying individual thought. Infringement on others goals, and playing God. Deciding what they should do because we think we know best. The problem isn't just time travel. It's the way we use it. Every change, alters everything that was supposed to be.

Trusting governments and religions to do this sort of decision making. On who to manipulate, and how to manage it all. It's just to much of a responsibility, I think for them to know what's best for us all. If there taking away are 1 free right to do as we please, then we are no more then just lemmings being commanded by our master man to jump off a bridge when instructed to. Just think about it from a 4Th Dimensional Perspective. You guys are thinking to much in 3 Dimensional terms. You got to see it, the way they see it. And please, if your not going to say anything Anti-Time Travel, then don't. This is an Anti-Time Travel Subject. Not for Pro-Time Travel individuals who can't see the wrong in Time Travel. Changing someone's lives without them knowing or consent, is wrong. No matter how you stack it, or try to justify it, it's wrong.

Regards,
Javier C.
 
Javier,
Can I ask you something? I feel as if you are saying you might be a victim of time distortion..against your will..am I right?
Maybe this is not true...maybe you are just a future timetraveller ..did you ever think about that? might be a lot to swallow. But why are you so afraid? you seem like a good person. if you are going to be involved in timetravel in the future your life WOULD show strange things now and why would it not? you are connected..the dizzyness,feeling tired all the time..dejavu constantly..even having dreams of future things or dreams of timetravel could all indicate this...it would be connected.
Did you ever think that maybe God would need some "good" timetravellers in the future?

Nobody can stop things from being invented.things WILL be invented. Technology is not good or bad it is how it is used. No doubt timetravell will exist someday...no doubt somebody will use it for evil.

What if you were sent on a mission to retrieve an engine or a device that someone other evil person had stole through timetravelling would this then be a bad thing?

I feel timetravel will exist someday (If God allows.) and you know what?
I dont want the bad guys to be the ONLY ONES to have the machine!!!!!!!
-pamela :-)
 
Don't think I haven't considered the possibility of actually being blind-sided by TT miscreants. I've taken some serious hits over the years from places, times, things unknown. But if we are just ants under the magnifying glass what can we do but carry on in hopes of better days?

If THEY have the technology and we don't (wich is the present case) how would we even know where the flack was comming from?
 
I'm glad you asked that question. What can we do, if they have the power, and we don't? At the moment they perceive most people like me (The Resistance) as just irrelevant motivators to get other nonresistance public on TT to understand. But, if the public where to become aware of the Evil this could bring, and keep a critical eye. This would say, "Don't head towards that bright light, or you'll get burned and surely die."

But no matter what, people still tend to believe that's the way to go. We have to become knowable now. That's our only defense. They'll just keep on changing the past, as long as we don't have a problem with it. That's like saying, the government will just keep on raising it's gasoline taxes until All American citizens get pissed off and decided to do something about it. See what I mean? It's logical.

A society only goes as far as it's inhabitants want it to go. But sadly, it's always the majority that claim to know what's best. And at times they are misinformed, so they think there doing the right thing.

In conclusion, all we can really do is think about it like this: Stand together for a common goal, oppose evil, or else it will consume you. Anything can be achieved, just as long as we don't accept evil and speak up. Even, Including the control of our human souls.

Sincerely,
Javier C.
 
Well i think if i can or find a way to do the
magical thing of time travel it would be for observation and recorded data- and grab a few lotto# would not hurt, but i would not try to change the coarse of time or anything close to "BIG NEWS EVENTS" that would be like robbing the cradle! I am going to try a few astro-travel attempts as i am sure others have tryed most of it is in your mind and you wil never really leave where you came from but in your mind///| ||\\ is where all these time machines i believe stem from...

my 2 cents...

^The^Spaceman^
 
Sorry, the original post mentioned both our souls being at risk and a host of other technologies as forms of "control" so basically I missed your point. I thought you were worried that man was usurping god. I see what your point is now.

I doubt anyone could disagree that tampering with the past would be bad - even if the intent was genuine like stopping hitler or something.

I can't think of any reasonable use for time travel. Anything you can do with it could cause problems. Going forward to "watch" could lead to advances that wouldn't have occurred otherwise and send things out of control. Going back just to "watch" is pointless - read a book. Anything other than just watching is too risky to even consider. The ONLY possible positive use I can think of is if some MAJOR catastrophe occurred in the past that decimated our way of life and left only small groups of people around. Then perhaps going back and trying to stop the event would be worth the risk.

So I guess I can think of one possible use (defense from a major catastrophe) coupled with a host of potential problems, risks and concerns. Any other reasons worth pursuing it?

Novice
ps. You said "only anti-tt posts in this thread". What is the point of that? Your points are reasonable and worth debating - meaningfull debate can only happen if people on both sides are involved.
 
Sorry, the original post mentioned both our souls being at risk and a host of other technologies as forms of "control" so basically I missed your point. I thought you were worried that man was usurping god. I see what your point is now.

I doubt anyone could disagree that tampering with the past would be bad - even if the intent was genuine like stopping hitler or something.

I can't think of any reasonable use for time travel. Anything you can do with it could cause problems. Going forward to "watch" could lead to advances that wouldn't have occurred otherwise and send things out of control. Going back just to "watch" is pointless - read a book. Anything other than just watching is too risky to even consider. The ONLY possible positive use I can think of is if some MAJOR catastrophe occurred in the past that decimated our way of life and left only small groups of people around. Then perhaps going back and trying to stop the event would be worth the risk.

So I guess I can think of one possible use (defense from a major catastrophe) coupled with a host of potential problems, risks and concerns. Any other reasons worth pursuing it?

Novice
ps. You said "only anti-tt posts in this thread". What is the point of that? Your points are reasonable and worth debating - meaningfull debate can only happen if people on both sides are involved.
 
I just found an old posting I once made for my club many months back. And I revised it and decided to share it with the members and spectators of this message board. Please let me know what you all think. Thank you.

-Javier C.S.

Disclaimer-Content contains stuff like God, and Religion.

For those who may get offended of what I may say, please stop reading. No one is forcing you to keep reading it. You made the conscious decision to view it (or did you). I am only supplying a realistic assessment of the what I believe to be reality. Any questions, please address them here and I will try to get to them as soon as I can. Thank you, and have a nice day =) bye.
----------------------------------


"Enlightenment"


By: Javier Cortez
created on October 25, 1999 11:22 p.m.
Revised on May 22, 2000 1:22 a.m.


Good Evening. I'd just like to say a few words on the subject of "Enlightenment" if you all don't mind. Thank you.

Enlightenment, what does it mean to me, to you, to everyone? For some of us we may think of it as a way of becoming better people inside by discovering our flaws and over coming them with peace and patients. Becoming aware of knowledge that brightens us, makes us happier and more able to look at life from a mood that is by choice. But for others, they may think of it as the ultimate goal in life. That it becomes their religion and reason for living. Dictating their entire lives to rules to being moral and a good person to your self and others.

Tonight I will be talking about spirituality and religion. And how I believe that our thirst for Enlightenment in the next 2000 years will reach critical mass as to trigger a massive and devastating impact to Humanities Existence for as long as it be in existence -Time Travel-


Brief review of Karma:
It is said that when we hurt and cry over the loss of someone dear to us, we become stronger and better people in side because of it. It is also said that when events like these happen that impact your life in a significant way is because there was a reason behind it. What goes around, comes around & You reap what you sow are a few classic examples describing karma (cosmic balance). But I'm not going to discuss Karma today, instead I am going to ask the aged old question, Why? Why Karma? Can't we do something without having to pay for it? Is it really God who keeps score, or is it our conscience that makes us want to pay in order to relieve some guilt to go on in life?

Lessons, experiences, knowledge. Call it what you want... But the truth of the matter is, we don't have control of any of them. We come into this world beyond our control, forced to live out a life with choices with sometimes very little understanding about them. We mess them up, we learn, bring about experience. Tell others our past outcomes and acknowledge our awareness that we have done pretty well or awful in dealing with life's challenges.

As far as the 6.6 Billion people on Earth are concerned, we all assume this is all because of individual motivation and choices done by analyzing data and going forth with our decisions. But what I propose is that individual thought, is a lot more controlled and fixed then people might think. For that reason I bring your attention to this example:

A Man in his early teens is out one night partying with his friends, drinking having a good time. Living up his life he would perhaps say. Enjoying every minute drinking and socializing with his peers... But when it would be time for him to go home, he gets into his car still drunk and manages to drive off. While driving home he passes by an area of town that is prone to having Homeless people around. He's not aware of it yet, but he doesn't see that a homeless lady is crossing the street with her grocery cart just as he zooms by at speeds that are unsafe drunk or not. He hits the lady and suddenly realizes what he had done. He feels worried and terrible for what he had done, but still drives on. Not stopping to see if she's still breathing or to call an ambulance. The man then gets home, drunk and hysterical of what had just happened. Realizing that he's screwed up. Thinking whether if he stopped it might have saved her life. But of the fear of having his license and car taken away are what made him drive off in the first place. Not wanting to give that up.


(Not necessarily happening all at once in this life time).

Years pass on by, this man gets married and has children. One day his daughter is walking home from a friends house a block away when a fast moving car passes and hit's her. The Driver doesn't stop to help her, instead he drives away. He was drunk, he didn't want to get out of the car and help her if she was dying because fear of going to jail for murder.

The girl's father gets a knock on his door a few minutes later, it's the police. They've come to tell him that their daughter was hit by a drunk driver, and that she's been taken to the hospital. The man suddenly sinks back into his head and is in shock of what he just heard. He realizes that many years ago, he was in the same situation. Except, he was the one who ran over the person and responsible for her death.

Years of guilt have returned to haunt him, feels as if this was his pay back for his past mistake.

How can that be though? How could it be possible that the actions in his future would be because of his past mistakes? Who kept score and arranged for this to happen to perhaps "teach him a lesson he will never forget?" Actions, decisions, words that all come out of our consciousness and our individual thoughts, how does someone or something know that it was already supposed to be said, done and considered that in a way in order to by coincidence accommodate some future incident or outcome. All fitting like a glove.

In that, setting things in motion. Making things the "reason" for something to happen to you. It's almost to me, as if everything, and I mean everything contains some choreographed reason for happening. And that we are all powerless to do anything to alter that fixed existence, thinking it's all random.

If a lesson or plan is to be implemented in our lives, then that would make us puppets forced to perform against our will. Or better yet, creatures who have no freewill, but to obey our master's program to be who he wants us to be, to his needs and wants. All that we would know of Physics (gravity, atoms, and rocks) are all fixed and contain a consciousness set up for everyone to complete a mission. A mission that is so perfect and so flawless that each and every one of us will fall victim for it. Therefore having everything in this universe cease to have randomness. A tea cup cannot break the same way twice. Yet it's breaking the same way twice, thrice and 5 times the same way everyday.

I know what you must all be thinking. "This is Crazy, that's not right..." I know where your coming from, I used to be just as maybe even more of a critic about this. But these years that've gone by. I've had enough exposure to it to determine it's true nature. These things, these possibilities that someday we will have time machines and time travelers will conclude all that I said. Believe me. Why then Time Travel? To change the very thing we lack of in the future. Set up situations where a spiritual balance can be obtained. That's their reasoning for taking control of you, and assuming the role of your guardian angels. Watching after you, leading you into their plan for you.

I can't back up my claims with proof and evidence just yet, but I just know that this equation (formula) to have everything in harmony and to bring Enlightenment to our society is not a plan God set him self in motion -I know... I know it may be hard for most of you to accept, or to think that "MAN" is the one solely responsible for creating religions, the idea of God, Spirituality. The proof is in the Bible it's self if you'd take the time to look at it. Hidden codes that even Jewish Priest and other religious leaders are starting to recognize as being codes in the Bible. That can't be explained as to how it could know with exact details the time and place of someone's death, great disasters, exact names and people who did what that changed the world, all before they ever took place 2000 years ago. It's almost like the book of life and we don't know it. But even that, I am in control of my life and decisions, and in no way am I doing as what my plan intended. Or am I?

It all just goes beyond logic to think that God would do this. God wouldn't force us to do what he wants us to do. God let's us do whatever we please. It was he who gave us a choice "In the beginning."

No, it can't be God who's responsible for this. It must be Man. It's actions are conscious and to precise to the changes in the past. But I believe it's people in a thousand years that would change all that. Using our technology and placing our selves into the cultures of primitive man. Having them interpret us in the only way they know how to explain these outwardly things. GOD...

There's much at stake I would believe in the future. What other reason could there be? Man strives for enlightenment, perfection, peace, oneness. Unlike it's passionate life loving adrenaline rushing ancestors... So you gotta ask your self this question. "How can you get more enlightenment and fix it to be in heaven in the future to the point where you would be with God, or be like a God?"

The answer is simple... Time Travel. What better way to go back and exploit the past for your own betterment. Sure, why not go make your self suffer (learn lessons) and achieve strength in situations you can't in the future because the foundation isn't there. Or making a pack? A pack with a highly Enlightened race of Aliens who would just so happen to show up in all of Earths history from every culture there exists. People being levitated to the sky, seeing women magically become pregnant, seeing angels, Demons, storms, other unexplained phenomena's to a primitive minded man.

How easy for the future time traveler to take advantage of the primitive, mis-interpretive early race of humans. They would just call it God's doing and force them to follow traditions for fear of angering God. Or go to Hell for not.

In that, always having that gap between logic and religion, people who misinterpreted the past thousands of years ago because lack of our knowledge we now have to extrapolate a clear meaning of what is really going on. I'm sure it would have caused chaos in the B.C. Era. Knowing that Man is claiming to be God, and that you are not in control of your future, the future is in control of your past.

That's all it's been, lies. Even the governments now who refuse to acknowledge the existence of UFO's are slowly coming out of the closet. Maybe in a few more years they will finally show us those papers that claim to be a National Security Risk.

Anyway's, it's 11:22 p.m. right now, for those of you who know about me what's been happening to me; I told you so. I guess that's all I have to say on Enlightenment. If anyone has any questions about what I just said, please do respond to this or e-mail me. I'd be more then happy to talk about this. And I hope to write more on The true reality of Enlightenment, when I give my self permission I guess. It's sad though, cause there was a reason I wrote this tonight, to bad it wasn't mine...

Sincerely Yours,
Javier C.S.

-----------------
Quotes to think about when someone wants you to think like they do and control you.

"Acceptance is a curse. Because you no longer feel the passion for something as you first did when you knew it was wrong." -Javier C.S.-

"Why accept something when it's morally wrong? Accepting it would mean it's own justification, and determine us OK with the idea of immorality." -Javier C.S.-

"Religion and true goodness only breeds pacifist people, who when it comes times for individual action can't seem to sever them selves from their collective thinking of what they made them selves to become." -Javier C.S.-

"In the end, you never get used to it. You just accept it. But even then your never truly happy with it still. So don't let people take away your choice while you still have it. Because maybe later you may not." -Javier C.S.-
 
Alright!

A REAL debate on time travel as opposed to the paranormal crap and pseudo-science on some of the other threads on this board.

It's good to remember two things.

1 - Time travel MAY not even be possible. It MAY be a flawed concept in the first place. (There is no real SCIENCE anywhere that shows it to be a certainty.)

2 - There is NO CONCLUSIVE PROOF anywhere that it has ever been done or ever will be. (If there were, it would have already been accepted by the scientific community at large. Claims to the contrary are merely the ramblings of wishful thinkers on the fringe of society. Most are outright hoaxes.)

So, accepting this reality, we then are free to debate what MIGHT happen if it were possible and the moral and physical implications involved.

We can toss aside all the foo-foo junk about old skeletons and visitors from the future and get down to the real problem of trying to answer the question "Is it possible". And, "If so, what are the implications".

Cool!

(Good debate here in THIS thread.)
 
To: Valkerie

Your entire statement is based on the assumption that Time Travelers are careless, clueless people as to just conveniently expose them selves to us. By that I mean, their technology and their actions. You wouldn't know the changes, because they have already been incorporated into our Time Line as if nothing ever happened.

Think about it, there not thinking on 3 Dimensional Terms like we do. There way of going about things is a lot more sophisticated. So that just about debunks your foo foo junk statement about this being some ramblings of wishful thinkers about their view on the future. Thank you very much.
 
First, there are govt subsidised labs around the world working on time travel trying to beat each other to the punch. If they succeed in the future and change everyone's past,we would all still have free will to complain about the possibility of the changes we are unaware of. WELCCOME TO THE MATRIX.
 
TimeTravel Activist said:


"Your entire statement is based on the assumption that Time Travelers are careless, clueless people as to just conveniently expose them selves to us."

No it is not.

It's based on the "assumption" (which is really not an assupmtion at all) that time travel is IN NO WAY a proven fact.

You can bring up all the arguments about lack of multi-dimensional thinking all you want to, but they are nothing more than speculation on your part and on the part of everyone else who mistakenly "assumes" time travel is some sort of reality "we" do not see.

If you want to speculate how time travel COULD be possible thru multi-dimensional possibilities fine. But please DO NOT try to sell me on the idea that it IS SO just because "we" cannot grasp it. That argument is no better than saying that the proof of a conspiracy lies in the fact that nobody can detect it. Foo Foo.

I'll be happy to discuss the possibilities of time travel, but not from a position that assumes it is a reality in the first place. Only from a position that questions whether or not it COULD be, and IF SO, jusy HOW that could be so.

You have no proof to the contrary, so please don't ask me to buy into the foo foo of it's reality just because you say I can't see it.

If I can't see it, then SHOW me where it is. Prove to me where I'm blind. I don't believe you can do that.

Remember, you (or anyone who believes time travel is real) are the one making the claim. I'm the one who is reflecting on current scientific evidence. If you can prove me (and science) wrong, I'd (and we'd)love to see it.

All else is speculation which needs to aknowledged as such. "Careful" time travellers included.

To Mokrie dela:
You're right.
 
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