What is the speed of dark?
- Thread starter Blair
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RainmanTime
Super Moderator
Have you been hearing about the discovery of Dark Energy, Blair? It might help find an answer to your question! See my new post on Dark Energy...
RMT
RMT
DrkSideOfTheMoon
Temporal Novice
Are you referring to space outside of what is increasingly getting larger (stars etc moving outward)? If so, I believe the consensus is that the "nothingness" or darkness is infinite. Everything else *I believe* is expanding at an increasing rate into this infinite darkness.
KerrTexas
Super Moderator
The premise was that if there had been a big bang, then everything that is matter would slow down and begin to fall back on itself. The reseacrhers have found that the objects are not slowing down, but speeding up as they move away from each other.
The theory is that there is dark matter/dark energy that we didnt previously know about and this "dark matter" is expanding. The expansion is pushing the stars, galaxies, etc.., away from each other.
This is what is being referenced as dark matter, a substance that occupies the space between the stars, etc.. Not absence of light as it were.
DrkSideOfTheMoon
Temporal Novice
Point is, we need to know what she is asking in more detail
hindsight2020
Temporal Novice
It may possibly seem as if this energy is pushing galaxies away from each other, but I suspect in all reality it is moreso pushing them in an gravitational pattern, much like our plantary orbits. I believe that our galaxy is actually flat.
Any feedback on that?
KerrTexas
Super Moderator
A gravitational influence would draw objects closer to each other. That is why the researchers were confounded. The matter we can see should be slowing down and then from gravitational powers, be drawn towards each other, but this isnt occuring.
The only reason why our planets havent been pulled into the Sun as of yet, is because of their orbits, the spinning motion.
However, we ARE being drawn into the Sun.
""" Astronomers had generally believed that the cosmic expansion was gradually slowing down, due to the gravitational tugs that individual galaxies exert on one another."""
""" Two groups of astronomers made a survey of exploding stars, or supernovas, in a number of distant galaxies. These researchers found that the supernovas were dimmer than they should have been, and that meant they were farther away than they should have been."""
""" What is dark matter?' Well, nobody's really sure. 'What is dark energy?' We're even less sure. So you have to explain to a student, that … 90 percent of the universe, 95 percent, is in two ingredients that nobody really understands."""
This was the only reference I found to the rate of expansion...
"""'How fast is the distance between us and this quasar( one selected for expansion study ) increasing?,'" Answer, "about 1.8 times the velocity of light."""
Razimus
Temporal Navigator
Dark doesn't have a speed, it's simply the absence of light. It's like asking what the speed of an empty glass is, it makes no sense, but what is the speed of gravity? If gravity had a speed, I'd say it was faster than light, as astronomically distant galaxies are effected by eachothers gravitational field. It's so fast in fact that when galaxies collide, the stars usually do not collide, but are rather perfectly effected by eachother's gravitational fields, and instead of smashing into eachother they rotate around eachother until the greatest mass pulls all of the stars into one galaxy, which most likely would be a massive black hole.
KerrTexas
Super Moderator
The "dark" being referenced is not absence of light. In the space between the matter we can see, apparently the researchers suspect that within this space there exists dark " energy ". As you pointed out, the gravitational influences of the galaxies and such should cause everything to slow down and be drawn towards each other.
This isnt happening. Everything is moving away from each other and gaining speed as they go.
This has astonished astronomers and other researchers. The question of the speed of dark is referring to the speed at which the dark " energy " is pushing the galaxies away from each other,
creedo299
Epochal Historian
Razimus' what is the speed of stringed space, as opposed to your supposition of what dark would be?
This is a trick question, as right now, the scientific community, does not want to deal with stringed space,........ they are tip-toeing around it.
You're very formidable.Pretty too.
Prettier than Amanda Pete the actress super model, but the brain....?well.
What say you and how would you deal with what I have said?
Also I would like to re-verify what was bought out a few years ago.
The light pressures from blue shift light is the same as pressure from red shift light, in galactic distance?
Please.
This is a trick question, as right now, the scientific community, does not want to deal with stringed space,........ they are tip-toeing around it.
You're very formidable.Pretty too.
Prettier than Amanda Pete the actress super model, but the brain....?well.
What say you and how would you deal with what I have said?
Also I would like to re-verify what was bought out a few years ago.
The light pressures from blue shift light is the same as pressure from red shift light, in galactic distance?
Please.
Razimus
Temporal Navigator
Well gravity is fast, but it isn't strong, you may have thought I said gravity was strong, but really it isn't very strong, but it is fast, for example, gravity is so weak that you can easily jump, or you can easily throw a baseball up in the air, against gravity, but it will always catch up, and eventually the ball will fall down. In the commonly known Big Bang theory the universe exploded from an extremely small point. The universe expanding would be the equivilent of the throwing the baseball up into the air, but as is also commonly known as the Big Crunch, the universe will eventually collapse on itself due to gravity. Gravity is considered one of the weakest forces in the universe, I've heard there may even be 2 different types of gravities, but that's just a theory. I understand the existance of the dark matter, e=mc2, it can be referred to as energy, but I still wouldn't give it a speed, I just personally don't believe the dark matter is a "force" causing the universe to expand, but I could always be wrong. This dark matter is obviously invisible, it has been measured and "seen" as far as I know only by monitoring it's gravitational effects. I personally think it is invisible because it's matter that is in another dimension, yet it's gravity still effects us. How it effects us and how could it be matter from another dimension has been theorized by String Theory.
Razimus
Temporal Navigator
"what is the speed of stringed space, as opposed to your supposition of what dark would be?"
Honestly I don't know what "stringed space" is. Even a guess would probably be way off. Does it have to do with string theory, or gridlike connected space? I don't know. But if I had to take a stab in the dark I would say the speed of stringed space was infinite. I would also say that the universe is infinitely growing, and at an infinite speed. Not the speed one galaxy would be travelling away from another galaxy, but space in itself, but that's just a guess. Maybe I misunderstood the question "how fast is dark energy", does this question relate to how fast the universe is expanding? If so I would say the same thing, infinitely.
Honestly I don't know what "stringed space" is. Even a guess would probably be way off. Does it have to do with string theory, or gridlike connected space? I don't know. But if I had to take a stab in the dark I would say the speed of stringed space was infinite. I would also say that the universe is infinitely growing, and at an infinite speed. Not the speed one galaxy would be travelling away from another galaxy, but space in itself, but that's just a guess. Maybe I misunderstood the question "how fast is dark energy", does this question relate to how fast the universe is expanding? If so I would say the same thing, infinitely.
creedo299
Epochal Historian
Dear Raz, since your in the territory, you should know the answer should be this.
The M+ value is now given to stringed space.
This is because of the factor known as quantum flux, of particle spikes out of no.where.
If you look at a power line coming at you straight on and then cut that power line so that it is only a dot on a white people of paper.
Then further, pose an asterix over that dot so that the center dot has many radians, then you are starting to understand stringed space.
The equation of power traveling down the wire, divides into what is known as radial axial polarities, or many realms of power.
This should tell you naturally that M+ or stringed space, is a many folded affair.
So what your looking at, is many differing frequencies behind stringged space?
An Instance that happened here, is the telling of famous John Titor when he was said to have had suffered what is known as a quantum bolace flux spike, to his time travel device.
This was said to have burnt out a few of the boards on his time machine and he went to Anomalies,.net, to ask for technical help, on getting his time machine fixed.
So stringed space is compaosed of many radial axial polarities, which at times barrow from other time lines.
This would be if your girlfriend is blond, but a time traveler in say Times or Sony Square in New York pulls down his pants in New York, so changing the timeline and your girlfriend's hair changes to brunette?
This is what is known as timelines barrowing from each other, in order to maintain parity.
Happens with signs in-front of restaurants too.
The M+ value is now given to stringed space.
This is because of the factor known as quantum flux, of particle spikes out of no.where.
If you look at a power line coming at you straight on and then cut that power line so that it is only a dot on a white people of paper.
Then further, pose an asterix over that dot so that the center dot has many radians, then you are starting to understand stringed space.
The equation of power traveling down the wire, divides into what is known as radial axial polarities, or many realms of power.
This should tell you naturally that M+ or stringed space, is a many folded affair.
So what your looking at, is many differing frequencies behind stringged space?
An Instance that happened here, is the telling of famous John Titor when he was said to have had suffered what is known as a quantum bolace flux spike, to his time travel device.
This was said to have burnt out a few of the boards on his time machine and he went to Anomalies,.net, to ask for technical help, on getting his time machine fixed.
So stringed space is compaosed of many radial axial polarities, which at times barrow from other time lines.
This would be if your girlfriend is blond, but a time traveler in say Times or Sony Square in New York pulls down his pants in New York, so changing the timeline and your girlfriend's hair changes to brunette?
This is what is known as timelines barrowing from each other, in order to maintain parity.
Happens with signs in-front of restaurants too.
KerrTexas
Super Moderator
I do understand what you are asserting. However, the researchers have discovered that the concept of everything returning to a big crunch, isnt occuring.
The Dark "energy" is not strong either, but strong enough to overpower gravity and is causing all galaxies to spread apart.
The experiments the astronomers have conducted is by measuring distance between objects and they realized that the distance between was greater than it was suppossed to be. They also have been able to calculate the speed of the movement of the objects, and relate that movement to the speed of the dark energies influence.
"""Scientists have been able to measure how fast the Universe was expanding, and the data indicate that it is actually speeding up."""
The energy itself may not have a speed per say. but is causing expansion at a specific rate of speed. If the galaxies are moving contrary to what is expected, something has to be moving them, against their own gravitational force.
And just becuase we can't see it, doesnt mean it isnt there.
I have also thought this but it could also be possible that it is vibrating, within our dimension, at a frequency undetectable to humans. We are slaves to our perception, as we have discussed here in the past, and I believe that our current understanding of Dark Matter is a prime example of perception limitation. I hope it all comes to light, in Time /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif
regards,
1stBorn
Razimus
Temporal Navigator
I agree with you 1stBorn, about the invisible matter vibrating at a frequency that we cannot see.
I would say though, that it still is in another dimension, not in another universe, still in our universe, just in a higher dimension, vibrating at a higher frequency, as String Theory would suggest, I'm a fan of Dr. Michio Kaku and others, I saw a show about string theory the other day, it was talking about particle accelerators, and how they are trying to prove String Theory with them. It's very complicated I don't pretend to understand it, but it was interesting, how they will measure the microscopic particles within the accelerators to see if some of their mass escapes into another dimension, I can't explain it well, but it was cool. I think the most recent particle accelerator is being constructed in Switzerland I believe, that will be better than the one at BNL.
I would say though, that it still is in another dimension, not in another universe, still in our universe, just in a higher dimension, vibrating at a higher frequency, as String Theory would suggest, I'm a fan of Dr. Michio Kaku and others, I saw a show about string theory the other day, it was talking about particle accelerators, and how they are trying to prove String Theory with them. It's very complicated I don't pretend to understand it, but it was interesting, how they will measure the microscopic particles within the accelerators to see if some of their mass escapes into another dimension, I can't explain it well, but it was cool. I think the most recent particle accelerator is being constructed in Switzerland I believe, that will be better than the one at BNL.
creedo299
Epochal Historian
Notes only by Creedo299:
Dark matter may be an inversed muon type of cloud signature.
I don't know why I'm saying muon, however I feel that in a way, that this is correct.
What one has to understand about cataclysmic explosions, is that the compression of matter ratios, is exceedingly high.Therefore a new type of compressive matter, is formed and this exist in vast expenses.
In the Incident At Eastgate, an Air Force sergeant, tells of being exposed to a landing craft, which was saucer shaped, which was supposedly a dark matter gennoised craft.
I have personally had, via my past contacts, experiences with other frequency beings myself.
The contact scenarios, are so odd, as they can manifest in ways,are above ground areas.
These contacts can range from very brief seconds to minutes or an hour.
The funny thing is, that in some of these contacts, the observer themselves, get a level of radiation.
In the eastgate affair, the sergeant had received a level of radiation from both the craft and a group of said beings. However, from what was told of the incident, the beings themselves, were indeed very friendly.
So there is a question posed in the philosophical, are other dimensional beings, morally repleat.
This question also impinges on the beings known as the Alpha Drackonians, as they are said to be in some instance made of dark matter, however this parameter is not adequately designed.
What is of interests in the Eastgate Affair, is how these aliens, almost in slow motion floated down infront of the Air Force witnessing crews, as if our gravity did not effect them?
I feel that dark matter may not entirely be stringed matter, but another off-frequency stile of matter, which is almost syrupy, to which the rules of normally perceived gravity have been altered.
I don't agree with Rainmantime, a poster here, who says that dark matter can be tapped as a power source.
I feel that in some instances, this is a Pandora's box, as both the environs and radiation concerns, seem to be a problem with dark matter fields in general?
However' please not that it was possible for the dark matter stiles of aliens, to have visited this dimension, for the need of their spaceship being fixed?
The conclusion to these dark matter scenarios, may be that this is a division or a boundary, that we are not privy to and there are some dangers in contacting the dark matter worlds?
However in past references, it should be noted, that dark matter, does not necessarily mean and evil presence, however a type of universe, which is not fully understood by this one.
Dark matter may be an inversed muon type of cloud signature.
I don't know why I'm saying muon, however I feel that in a way, that this is correct.
What one has to understand about cataclysmic explosions, is that the compression of matter ratios, is exceedingly high.Therefore a new type of compressive matter, is formed and this exist in vast expenses.
In the Incident At Eastgate, an Air Force sergeant, tells of being exposed to a landing craft, which was saucer shaped, which was supposedly a dark matter gennoised craft.
I have personally had, via my past contacts, experiences with other frequency beings myself.
The contact scenarios, are so odd, as they can manifest in ways,are above ground areas.
These contacts can range from very brief seconds to minutes or an hour.
The funny thing is, that in some of these contacts, the observer themselves, get a level of radiation.
In the eastgate affair, the sergeant had received a level of radiation from both the craft and a group of said beings. However, from what was told of the incident, the beings themselves, were indeed very friendly.
So there is a question posed in the philosophical, are other dimensional beings, morally repleat.
This question also impinges on the beings known as the Alpha Drackonians, as they are said to be in some instance made of dark matter, however this parameter is not adequately designed.
What is of interests in the Eastgate Affair, is how these aliens, almost in slow motion floated down infront of the Air Force witnessing crews, as if our gravity did not effect them?
I feel that dark matter may not entirely be stringed matter, but another off-frequency stile of matter, which is almost syrupy, to which the rules of normally perceived gravity have been altered.
I don't agree with Rainmantime, a poster here, who says that dark matter can be tapped as a power source.
I feel that in some instances, this is a Pandora's box, as both the environs and radiation concerns, seem to be a problem with dark matter fields in general?
However' please not that it was possible for the dark matter stiles of aliens, to have visited this dimension, for the need of their spaceship being fixed?
The conclusion to these dark matter scenarios, may be that this is a division or a boundary, that we are not privy to and there are some dangers in contacting the dark matter worlds?
However in past references, it should be noted, that dark matter, does not necessarily mean and evil presence, however a type of universe, which is not fully understood by this one.
RainmanTime
Super Moderator
Exactly. Some are referring to it as the "Zero Point Field" (ZPF) and others call it the "quantum vacuum". Even the word "ether" is coming back into existence to describe a medium, which we do not appear to be able to perceive with our limited human senses, but it is the medium through which light, gravity, and all electromagnetic phenomenon propagate through.
And let us not forget....there is a distinction between:
Dark Energy - The majority of total universal energy, which we cannot sense directly, and which appears to act in an anti-gravitating sense.
Dark Matter - Matter that we cannot observe in the same manner we observe baryonic matter, but which we can detect its influence, which is gravitating in much the same manner (only more condensed) as normal, baryonic matter.
I am partial to the theories of Dr. Jack Sarfatti. He speaks of the three types of energy with respect to how the cosmological "constant" (Lambda) varys in each of them:
Sign of Lambda(x,sigma)_____Vacuum Phase
_______(+)_______________Dark Energy
_______(0)_______________Einstein Vacuum (baryonic matter)
_______(-)_______________Dark Matter
To me, this makes intuitive sense based on what we know and observe about "normal" baryonic matter. But beyond this it corresponds with the triadic math/geometry of Genesis. Sarfatti was told by a mystic back in 1972 that he would "discover the Cipher of Genesis". From the standpoint of leading modern physics to the reality of the interrelationship of Mind & Energy, I think he is doing just this. I've found his theories correspond directly with the knowledge of Qabalah as described in Genesis, and they are backed-up by his equations.
RMT