DrHawkinsBrimble
Chrono Cadet
What if JFK was never shot?
If he wasn't killed in '63 would JFK have passed the Civil Rights Act or pulled out of Vietnam?
www.history.co.uk
What if Kennedy survived Dallas?
- Thread starter DrHawkinsBrimble
- Start date
Classicalfan626
Staff member
I read the text in the first two images. Did you write this yourself, or was that copied from some other place?
Why I’m asking is because it is theorized as good as fact that the CIA was responsible for the JFK assassination. It has also been theorized that Lee Harvey Oswald wasn’t the gunman who shot JFK. And even if it was he who shot the President, he certainly wasn’t planning it on his own.
Why I’m asking is because it is theorized as good as fact that the CIA was responsible for the JFK assassination. It has also been theorized that Lee Harvey Oswald wasn’t the gunman who shot JFK. And even if it was he who shot the President, he certainly wasn’t planning it on his own.
DrHawkinsBrimble
Chrono Cadet
The assassination of President John F. Kennedy on November 22, 1963, in Dallas, Texas, is one of the most famous and controversial events in modern American history. The official investigation, conducted by the Warren Commission, concluded that Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone in shooting Kennedy from the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository. However, over the years, many conspiracy theories have emerged suggesting that there was a larger plot involving multiple individuals or groups.
On the very day John F. Kennedy died, a cottage industry was born. Fifty years and hundreds of millions of dollars later, it’s still thriving.
Best-selling books and blockbuster movies have raked in massive profits since 1963. And now, with the 50th anniversary looming, a new generation is set to cash in.
Of course, the Warren Commission officially concluded in 1964 that Lee Harvey Oswald had acted alone - and issued 26 volumes of documents to support that determination. But rather than closing the book on JFK’s death, the report merely served as fuel for an already-kindled fire of doubt and suspicion.
Since then, even government investigators have stepped away from the lone assassin theory. In 1978, the U.S. House Select Committee on Assassinations ended its own lengthy inquiry by finding that JFK “was probably assassinated as a result of a conspiracy.”
That panel acknowledged it was “unable to identify the other gunman or the extent of the conspiracy.” But armed with mountains of subsequently released documents, there has been no shortage of people willing to offer their own conclusions.
Among the leading suspects: Cuban exiles angry about the Bay of Pigs fiasco; Mafiosi enraged by Attorney General Robert Kennedy’s attacks on organized crime; the “military-industrial complex,” worried about JFK’s review of war policy in Vietnam.
One theorist even floated the notion that Kennedy’s limousine driver shot the president - as part of an effort to cover up proof of an alien invasion.
Anything but that Oswald, a hapless former Marine, was in the right place at the right time, with motive and opportunity to pull off one of the most audacious crimes in American history.
About 6 in 10 Americans say they believe multiple people were involved in a conspiracy to assassinate Kennedy, while only one-fourth think Oswald acted alone, according to an AP-GfK survey done in April.
It is unlikely that we will ever know with certainty who was responsible for the assassination of President John F. Kennedy. Investigations, have failed to conclusively prove any one theory of what happened.
Despite numerous conspiracy theories and various pieces of evidence and testimony that have emerged over the years, there is still no definitive proof pointing to any specific individual or group.
While it is possible that new evidence could emerge in the future, it is unlikely that it would definitively solve the mystery of who killed JFK. The assassination remains one of the most widely debated and controversial events in modern American history, and it is likely to continue to be the subject of investigation, speculation, and debate for many years to come.
On the very day John F. Kennedy died, a cottage industry was born. Fifty years and hundreds of millions of dollars later, it’s still thriving.
Best-selling books and blockbuster movies have raked in massive profits since 1963. And now, with the 50th anniversary looming, a new generation is set to cash in.
Of course, the Warren Commission officially concluded in 1964 that Lee Harvey Oswald had acted alone - and issued 26 volumes of documents to support that determination. But rather than closing the book on JFK’s death, the report merely served as fuel for an already-kindled fire of doubt and suspicion.
Since then, even government investigators have stepped away from the lone assassin theory. In 1978, the U.S. House Select Committee on Assassinations ended its own lengthy inquiry by finding that JFK “was probably assassinated as a result of a conspiracy.”
That panel acknowledged it was “unable to identify the other gunman or the extent of the conspiracy.” But armed with mountains of subsequently released documents, there has been no shortage of people willing to offer their own conclusions.
Among the leading suspects: Cuban exiles angry about the Bay of Pigs fiasco; Mafiosi enraged by Attorney General Robert Kennedy’s attacks on organized crime; the “military-industrial complex,” worried about JFK’s review of war policy in Vietnam.
One theorist even floated the notion that Kennedy’s limousine driver shot the president - as part of an effort to cover up proof of an alien invasion.
Anything but that Oswald, a hapless former Marine, was in the right place at the right time, with motive and opportunity to pull off one of the most audacious crimes in American history.
About 6 in 10 Americans say they believe multiple people were involved in a conspiracy to assassinate Kennedy, while only one-fourth think Oswald acted alone, according to an AP-GfK survey done in April.
It is unlikely that we will ever know with certainty who was responsible for the assassination of President John F. Kennedy. Investigations, have failed to conclusively prove any one theory of what happened.
Despite numerous conspiracy theories and various pieces of evidence and testimony that have emerged over the years, there is still no definitive proof pointing to any specific individual or group.
While it is possible that new evidence could emerge in the future, it is unlikely that it would definitively solve the mystery of who killed JFK. The assassination remains one of the most widely debated and controversial events in modern American history, and it is likely to continue to be the subject of investigation, speculation, and debate for many years to come.
Classicalfan626
Staff member
That’s a very thorough answer you put forth in your last post. But you still haven’t answered how you came up with the text in the first two images. Is all of that in your own words? And what about that last post? Is that all in your own words?
P.S.: I’m sorry if my tone in this post comes across as rude or inappropriate to you. That’s not my intention. It’s just that I don’t like it when people don’t answer my questions. I’m sure you can relate to that.
P.S.: I’m sorry if my tone in this post comes across as rude or inappropriate to you. That’s not my intention. It’s just that I don’t like it when people don’t answer my questions. I’m sure you can relate to that.
DrHawkinsBrimble
Chrono Cadet
If you mean do I copy and paste from somewhere else, then No I don’t, if I use something from elsewhere I usually link a source… Usually 
Classicalfan626
Staff member
Well, in any event, have you ever heard of Q (AKA QAnon)? Its statements are widely branded as conspiracy theories, but they hold a lot of truth.
Not everything Q posts is spot-on accurate. But according to them, the CIA was responsible for the assassination of JFK, and JFK Jr. faked his plane crash death and is still alive. This stuff might be revealed to the public relatively soon, as well as that Donald Trump won the 2020 presidential election, and his victory was robbed from him.
Not everything Q posts is spot-on accurate. But according to them, the CIA was responsible for the assassination of JFK, and JFK Jr. faked his plane crash death and is still alive. This stuff might be revealed to the public relatively soon, as well as that Donald Trump won the 2020 presidential election, and his victory was robbed from him.
J
Jason Taverner
I saw a conversation on JRE where they guest suggests that Lee Harvey Oswald was actually their to protect the president. (Time traveller?) and that yeh he was actually gunning for the true assassin. Interesting twist on it and it would clear up alot of inconsistences. Like how he was shouting "I was set up".
Classicalfan626
Staff member
J
Jose
Have you read Stephen King's wonderful novel 11/23/63
Darby
Epochal Historian
What would have happened? It is possible that Kennedy would have restricted US involvement in Vietnam's civil war. It's not likely that we would have pulled out completely because we had had a military presence in Vietnam since the early part of the Eisenhower Administration circa 1954. But for the sake of argument let's assume he pulled all US troops out.
58,000 US military personnel died in Vietnam. If we pulled out the vast majority of those young men would have survived into the 1990s and beyond. Virtually all of those young men would have married and had children. But who would they have married? Young women who, in our reality, married someone else and had different children who no longer exist. The young men that those women married in our reality marry someone else and they have children. We now have children that no longer exist and a new set of children who don't exist in our reality. These events would have begun around 1965, 60 years ago. The children of the early marriages are now 60ish and their children have grown, married and have children. More children that don't exist in this reality. And those children are now in their 30s and have children of their own. Even more children that don't currently exist.
Do you see where this is going? After only 60 years we have three generations of people who don't currently exist. If we extend this to nine generations (2150) the result is 221 million people in the USA who would otherwise never exist (assuming 20 years per generation and 2.5 children per couple)
Growth rate G = 2.5^9 ~ 3814 That's 2.5 children per couple taken out 9 generations
Number of "new" persons N = 58,000 * 3814 ~ 221 million We began with the 58k not killed in Vietnam and applied the growth factor
Killing Hitler, avoiding Vietnam, World War I, the Civil War, etc. have consequences.
58,000 US military personnel died in Vietnam. If we pulled out the vast majority of those young men would have survived into the 1990s and beyond. Virtually all of those young men would have married and had children. But who would they have married? Young women who, in our reality, married someone else and had different children who no longer exist. The young men that those women married in our reality marry someone else and they have children. We now have children that no longer exist and a new set of children who don't exist in our reality. These events would have begun around 1965, 60 years ago. The children of the early marriages are now 60ish and their children have grown, married and have children. More children that don't exist in this reality. And those children are now in their 30s and have children of their own. Even more children that don't currently exist.
Do you see where this is going? After only 60 years we have three generations of people who don't currently exist. If we extend this to nine generations (2150) the result is 221 million people in the USA who would otherwise never exist (assuming 20 years per generation and 2.5 children per couple)
Growth rate G = 2.5^9 ~ 3814 That's 2.5 children per couple taken out 9 generations
Number of "new" persons N = 58,000 * 3814 ~ 221 million We began with the 58k not killed in Vietnam and applied the growth factor
Killing Hitler, avoiding Vietnam, World War I, the Civil War, etc. have consequences.
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Jay Walker
Chrono Cadet
Is this a sewing circle? lol
Or is this TTI,
the home of m-effn John m-effin Titor!?
I know you guys have more ideas on the JFK assassination.
In my opinion, an alien invasion theory has more merit than Lee Harvey Oswald having a motive to kill JFK.
I have 2 reasons why I believe that to be true, and why this is so important when it comes to the CIA and the manipulation of information.
1. The only evidence for a motive to kill the president was that they accused Lee Harvey Oswald of being a communist. I know a lot of Americans would say that that is enough evidence for them. However, Lee Harvey Oswald was not a Right-Wing Communist. He was a Left Wing Socialist. He read Carl Marx and began advocating for legislation for worker's rights, public health care access, unionized labor pools, etc. In case you don't believe me, you can find audio of Oswald on radio programs debating for social reforms.
In case you're thinking that there isn't a difference, that a commy is a commy. You might want to know that Hitler had one formidable political opposition in Europe, and they were known as Marxists. It was believed at the time that Jewish people were Marxists and favored socialism. Through propaganda he could change the word Marxist and make it mean the same as Jew. The word for socialist, or anarchist in America, became the word communist or enemy, using the same tactics.
So, If Oswald believed so heavily in social reform, why would he kill the most social-reform president since FDR, just so he can be replaced by a VP known to be a blue-dog, good 'ole boy, dixie democrat, like LBJ? That doesn't make any actual sense.
2. I believe that it is common knowledge that whenever a murder occurs, and there is not an immediate suspect, the first people suspected is the people closest to the victim. However, when this murder occurs, the first likely suspect they begin their investigation is a rogue stranger? JFk would meet with people every day with more motive than Oswald before he even had his morning coffee.
That dog just don't hunt.
In conclusion, I think we as a society should be aware of what the purpose of the CIA is?
Thier mission statement is to:
"preempt threats and further U.S. national security objectives by collecting intelligence that matters, producing objective all-source analysis, conducting effective covert action as directed by the President, and safeguarding the secrets that help keep our Nation safe and secure."
In other words, they control information that matters.
Everything you know... that you think you know and is also information they deemed something that "matters" was first inspected and manipulated before you received it as a fact, or opinion.
- Evidence that information can be manipulated without the masses knowing:
Every bit of the suffering of millions during that era was made possible through the manipulation of information. The agency tasked with that responsibility was the:
Reich Ministry of Public Enlightenment and Propaganda (Reichsministerium für Volksaufklärung und Propaganda) headed by Joseph Goebbels.
I realize that is an extreme example. Still, that should only carry more weight towards the modern implications of information manipulation for other extreme examples throughout history and today such as the JFK assassination, 9/11, Jan 6th, etc. and whatever is still to come. At some point if most people, not everyone obviously, but if most people can look at something with a more critical mind, and see things clearer, the future could look much brighter.
P.S. RIP Bob Uecker
Darby
Epochal Historian
Absolutely. He may have been a career .200 hitter but he managed to last 6 years in the Show and 12 years in professional baseball as a player. For over half a century he made self effacing jokes about his lack of ability as a player while calling games on the radio and TV. That was for comedy. You don't last 6 years as an MLB player unless you have real talent. Thank god he also had that huge second talent that got him into the HOF as an announcer.
<Bang! Ricky "Wild Thing" Yaughn's pitch slams into the wood wall behind home plate> Uke announces on the radio, "Juuuuust a bit outside. I don't know how he could take that pitch."
Time travel_Ο
Temporal Navigator
Calm down, you're not going to solve this riddle. Kenedy's murder is linked to time machine technology and causality. His “murder” was the catalyst for a series of subsequent historically significant events.
Time travel_Ο
Temporal Navigator
Forget it, you'll never know the truth.
Lee Harvey Oswald had a portable communication device, something like a military communication point.
Also, in one of the photos, Lee Harvey Oswald is holding a newspaper that was published in March 1963, or a little earlier, I don't remember exactly. In this newspaper it was said that Kenedy was an important figure in the impending World War 3, which was going to break out because of the Cuban crisis. Kennedy's “assassination” was the catalyst for a number of historically important events.
Lee Harvey Oswald had a portable communication device, something like a military communication point.
Also, in one of the photos, Lee Harvey Oswald is holding a newspaper that was published in March 1963, or a little earlier, I don't remember exactly. In this newspaper it was said that Kenedy was an important figure in the impending World War 3, which was going to break out because of the Cuban crisis. Kennedy's “assassination” was the catalyst for a number of historically important events.
Classicalfan626
Staff member
Never say never.
Time travel_Ο
Temporal Navigator
Not in this situation.
By the way, Lee Harvey Oswald did not kill Tippit the cop. When Lee Harvey was trying to run away, he encountered “two agents” on the street, one of those two agents fired a shot at Tippit.
Jay Walker
Chrono Cadet
Now, I can see that being true.
In case anyone has further interest in this topic, this is a link that discusses the results of Oswald's Paraffin test. As well as the condition of that pos Carcano they found. I don't think anyone could hit the side of a barn with that gun on purpose. Especially someone that has no gun residue on his cheek.
Still, to answer the question at hand. If Kennedy survives. Civil Rights, Vietnam, Space Race, Cold War, Robert's bare-knuckle brawl in the Octagon against Hoffa. The possibilities are endless. Teddy drowning that poor woman would still have happened, but he would have felt terrible about it in some far away universe where he actually had a soul.
I think the take-away people should consider, is legally bribing your elected public servants might not be the best system for a free society. In the future, how will guys like John speak of us a hundred years from now?
When the dust settles, does it even matter who pulled the trigger? The conditions that surround a system as an institution, rewards corruption, and dismisses logical discussion as conspiracy theory sounds like the real rogue element in any society now, then, or 100 years from now.
Darby
Epochal Historian
If that is the case why do you continue to repeat the statement? If we'll never know then we'll never know which makes repeating the statement sound more like begging than a simple statement of fact. Why is it so important to you to continue repeating the statement?
Another theme you repeat is that the "Titor/TimeTravel_0" who posted here and on Post-2-Post was an imposter. Why keep repeating that here in 2024 a quarter of a century later? If what you insist is true you have a time travel gadget. Just step in, go back to November 2, 2000 after 0116 hours when TimeTravel_0 dropped his first post here but before 0548 hours when Pamela dropped her first post with TimeTravel_0 and call him out on being an interloping fraud by posting after TTO and before Pamela. Do than and then you win.
And, please, I heard TTO/Titor the first time when he said he didn't care if we believed his story and that it might be better if we didn't believe him and blah, blah, blah. A quarter of a century later it would be cliche to use his story as your story as a fallback. And I heard Titor/TTO the first time when he said that his war and his world have nothing to do with this world and sending an email to one's self won't arrive in this world if he carries them back to 1998 and yada, yada, yada. So that's not an answer either. Just do what you do and we'll be the judge.
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Time travel_Ο
Temporal Navigator
Chronology cannot be broken, it will lead to spontaneous creation of many variants of world lines.
What happened in the past is part of the history of this worldline as it happened, if you go back in time and do things differently now, you won't even know about it, because it will create another worldline.