Time Travelers From The Past
- Thread starter Twighlight
- Start date
I don't see why. If a 'time traveller' was, frankly, having a slow day and felt the need to spilt his guts onto an internet forum. Should he not provide adequate proof, or at least something we can all agree is a valid offering to support his/her claim?
So far all we have had, are merely things to sink our teeth into. And poor old Ray, i think, is probably running out of tooth-picks by now.
So far all we have had, are merely things to sink our teeth into. And poor old Ray, i think, is probably running out of tooth-picks by now.
I would consider their predictions an "offering to support his/her claim" Its gonna take time to turn into anything worth while, but if on March 9th a time traveler says on May 12th World War 3 is gonna start, than all you have to do is wait until May 12th and then TA-DA you will know whether he was lying or relevant. So in the mean time, see no point to imidiatly disregard him/her as a time traveler if they don't offer up other kinds of proof.
What a sorry statement, 'chrono-historian' would have loved you!
After all, if they want to assume the identity of a time-traveller, and for us to accept this context together with their 'information', then surely they must give us something that would support their identity. Otherwise what right do they hold to scrutinize our skepticism.
The longer their 'predictions' take to unfold, the less valid they are. I think that a few threads have mentioned the pitfalls of predictions.
Personally, i feel that if a timetraveller was posting on this forum, a prediction would be the last thing they would offer...
perhaps a concept, or some offering of maths/scientific theory that would support they are of a more advanced in mindset than your average titor. All those that want to hear stories of doomsday, will pass on through, while your true audience will give you a wink and a nod until the rest clear off.
You may never get the answers you seek. Proof to one individual is not proof to another.
Besides, I really do think it is impossible to prove on the internet but you can still offer
your tests perhaps one will take it some day and give you the proof you need to be sure.
I honestly do not see a time traveler giving this proof out unless he is like "frequency guy"
Damien. Because he claimed to not be physically here he was rather safe.
Or perhaps one will give the proof before they exit. You can never know what one will do.
Keep in mind though some people will never be satisfied and demand more and more proof
until they practically have to "visit" the person!
I am sure though that the real ones may be few and far between. You may have even talked to
some unaware.
****************ATTENTION TIME TRAVEL CLAIMANTS:*****************
If you interest me I may ask you questions.
This does not mean I necessarily believe what you are saying but only
that I am interested and curious about what you have to say.
I like to gather all the information first and save judgement till the end.
I am here to have fun, interesting and thought provoking conversation.
If you have a sense of humor, are highly intelligent and creative I may end up liking you!
However, This does not mean I will have interdimensional babies with you. LOL /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Packerbacker
Quantum Scribe
What many "proof"demand-ers really want, I think is not proof, but to be convinced, or maybe
seduced (to believe, that is), like the reluctant virgin.
/ttiforum/images/graemlins/loveit.gif
seduced (to believe, that is), like the reluctant virgin.
/ttiforum/images/graemlins/loveit.gif
Twighlight
Quantum Scribe
Well of course. It seems to me pointless to even stand up and say 'I am a time traveller' unless one is going to offer some proof of it. Anyone can make claims.
I could claim I am in contact with the giant galactic nematode creatures from the planet Zordox.....whose mission is to ensure that all planets reach true civilization by offering free beer to their inhabitants and the abolition of taxes..and they are coming to Earth soon. What ? You don't believe me ?? Oh ye of little faith.
RainmanTime
Super Moderator
And is it just as amusing when Pamela does the exact same thing? Funny that you do not say that when she does it.
It seems there are a lot of people around here who seem to think they know how a time traveler would act. Yes, people are different. But how any one person would act is a red herring with regard to the possibility of time travel.
Time travel is bunk, at least the form that everyone wishes it would take.
RMT
Packerbacker
Quantum Scribe
Oh but I do believe you. You imagined it (you think). But where did that imagination come from?
It's hard to escape the position that most of what we call consciousness is a high level result of brain activity we are not--actually can't be conscious of. So what is really doing the thinking? We're like anchor people at a news desk reporting the latest news from our brains. Right or wrong?
I like to think that in the beginning all possibilities came into existence simulataneously, and rather than 'creation', evolution simply makes real the most likely "potential" pre-existing possibility.
So even though the giant nematodes sound a little like the sand worms in "Dune", I really like the free beer and no taxes bit
Read my Lips: Free Beer, No new Taxes. P.S.: I'll have a Coors, please.
RainmanTime
Super Moderator
Actually, several of us here can claim that we have been in contact with a giant, galactic-and-time-traveling clam. Good ole Clamorian, I miss him so. /ttiforum/images/graemlins/cry.gif He was/is/willbe a good chap, especially given that he is a clam and they tend to be pretty boring. He even "proved" to us who he said he was by offering a picture of himself, and his grandfather clam who invented his time machine...and also gave us a pictre of his time machine. So there is an example of a time travel claimant who was more than willing to offer "proof".
But yes, it is interesting how some people are selective of who and/or what they believe (sans proof). They would rather argue with those of us who are simply asking for proof, rather than argue with the people making wild-ass claims!
RMT
Packerbacker
Quantum Scribe
It means that time travelers are bunk buddies. /ttiforum/images/graemlins/devil.gif
Twighlight
Quantum Scribe
A few years back, I went into one of the 911 conspiracy forums and pointed out that the famous pics of a 'woman' standing in the hole left by the plane were not actually a woman at all but just wreckage and side panels of the WTC. I even PROVED so, by showing that in one pic, the 'leg' of the woman actually merged into one of the aluminium exterior panels that stretched to the floor below.
Well, I got responed to like I must be a Bush secret agent, etc etc, in on the conspiracy, and so on. So blindly are people willing to believe their conspiracies and anomalies that even when confronted with irrefutable proof that they are wrong........they cannot see the wood for the trees.
There have been a few people like that on this forum. When our lives are so lacking in mystery and excitement, we eventually seek to fabricate it at all costs.
There is not one of us here that has not been guilty of this at some piont in our lives. For some though, it ruins them. I can think of one in particular.
I also suspect this. And i also suspect the reality is stranger than fiction, and probably far more profound. This is why i believe only those that understand the 'proof' offered, will be able to validate a likely 'time traveller'.
RainmanTime
Super Moderator
I have described what I mean by this in much more detail in earlier threads (some of those 5000+ replies that actually have relevant content!). /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif But in summary, what I mean by this is the science we know of today does not validate the concept of a human being able to travel through time without their primary physical makeup going through a radical change. What I call the "romantic notion of time travel" is basically that purported to occur in any/all stories about time travel, such as HG Wells' classic The Time Machine and even The Time Traveler's Wife. Namely, people traveling through time with no change to their physical being.
You may be surprised (but Olly will not) to know that I have some fairly strong spiritual beliefs. Now, I do not parade them around as if I believed they were valid science. However, I have experienced a lot through personal experimentation that convinces me there is somthing beyond the material world (which is but one subset of a larger concept called physical phenomena). It is my belief that time travel could very well manifest, but only as part of this extra-material plane of existence. And as such, it will never manifest as "Johnny Titor jumps into his time machine, revvs it up, and pops out in 2000 to chat with his friends on TTI."
RMT
Twighlight
Quantum Scribe
Me too......but it's largely because I find it hard to believe that the perfect laws of maths and symmetry could create such a god-dammned awful universe. Something about the universe as it is, just doesn't make sense....as it's easy to forget that we are not seperate but an intergral part of it, created by it. It somehow seems absurd to suppose that there is no rhyme or reason or purpose to this.
dimaggio
Chrono Cadet
I don't think the universe is awful when compared to the perfect laws of math and symmetry.
If we take a look at the universe macroscopically, then it appears to be chaotic.
But that's just because every form of math we know and yet don't know work together.
If we look at isolated things in the universe then we can find every perfect math in it.
It's like taking a look at something very chaotic, but when you take a look at it under the microscope, then you can see more and more order.
And even if there is no order, then there's still some underlying form of math behind it, that makes it work.
But we might just not understand it yet, like all the other myths we didn't understand many centuries ago.
I personally don't think that the universe has to make sense in human terms.
We, as humans, tend to give everything some sort of purpose or sense, to bear it.
If something has no sense or purpose, we are confused because we want to know, WHY it is existing then.
But just because it exists, doesn't mean it has to have a purpose.
Maybe the whole universe, along with us and our planet has absolutely no purpose whatsoever.
Maybe it's just there, because. That's something that is hard to accept because we want to know the reason for something's existance.
That's part of our curiosity.
Having a feeling there's more is alright and maybe there is, I can't tell for sure.
But we also have to brace ourselves for the very high possibility that there's nothing more, no higher purpose, no meaning.
Can the universe even exist if there's really no meaning? I say yes, why not.
If there's a comet flying around in the universe which we'll never see and which will never hit anything except a star, which will not even "notice" this (meaning it'll have no significant outcome) then it seems to have had no purpose.
But still if flew around the universe and hit the star, just because it was possible, and in this instance it did.
Granted, a universe without a purpose or reason etc., seems like a very boring place.
What if it is? That's a little downer I guess, but then again there's still "magic" and "wonder" in the universe as it is.
Just the sight of all the different kinds of things one can see is astonishing.
Most of it might be deadly to a human being, but I think that's just because our parameters for life are so small/little compared to the whole range of possible parameters in the whole of the universe.
And thus, most of the stuff out there can kill us easily.
Ok, I'm beginning to brabble, the only thing I want to point out is:
IMO the universe doesn't need a purpose to be. This might make it hard to accept, but if it's the truth, we have to live with it.
But even if there is no purpose, there's still wonder out there, because what we perceive as wonder is totally up to our imagination.
Side note:
And both imagination and feelings are IMO central to why we tend to think there has to be purpose.
I feel that way everytime I look at the vast amount of stars in the sky, but then again I know it is just a feeling, produced by my body.
The stars up there (or their light I can see) couldn't care less about all the stars around them, so it's only that: A bunch of stars.
But having my mind react to that sight in such an emotional way, fuels my curiosity and wants to give it meaning and purpose.
Maybe that's another trick of life to sustain itself. IMO curiosity is one of the main motors for human advancement / advancement of life.
If we take a look at the universe macroscopically, then it appears to be chaotic.
But that's just because every form of math we know and yet don't know work together.
If we look at isolated things in the universe then we can find every perfect math in it.
It's like taking a look at something very chaotic, but when you take a look at it under the microscope, then you can see more and more order.
And even if there is no order, then there's still some underlying form of math behind it, that makes it work.
But we might just not understand it yet, like all the other myths we didn't understand many centuries ago.
I personally don't think that the universe has to make sense in human terms.
We, as humans, tend to give everything some sort of purpose or sense, to bear it.
If something has no sense or purpose, we are confused because we want to know, WHY it is existing then.
But just because it exists, doesn't mean it has to have a purpose.
Maybe the whole universe, along with us and our planet has absolutely no purpose whatsoever.
Maybe it's just there, because. That's something that is hard to accept because we want to know the reason for something's existance.
That's part of our curiosity.
Having a feeling there's more is alright and maybe there is, I can't tell for sure.
But we also have to brace ourselves for the very high possibility that there's nothing more, no higher purpose, no meaning.
Can the universe even exist if there's really no meaning? I say yes, why not.
If there's a comet flying around in the universe which we'll never see and which will never hit anything except a star, which will not even "notice" this (meaning it'll have no significant outcome) then it seems to have had no purpose.
But still if flew around the universe and hit the star, just because it was possible, and in this instance it did.
Granted, a universe without a purpose or reason etc., seems like a very boring place.
What if it is? That's a little downer I guess, but then again there's still "magic" and "wonder" in the universe as it is.
Just the sight of all the different kinds of things one can see is astonishing.
Most of it might be deadly to a human being, but I think that's just because our parameters for life are so small/little compared to the whole range of possible parameters in the whole of the universe.
And thus, most of the stuff out there can kill us easily.
Ok, I'm beginning to brabble, the only thing I want to point out is:
IMO the universe doesn't need a purpose to be. This might make it hard to accept, but if it's the truth, we have to live with it.
But even if there is no purpose, there's still wonder out there, because what we perceive as wonder is totally up to our imagination.
Side note:
And both imagination and feelings are IMO central to why we tend to think there has to be purpose.
I feel that way everytime I look at the vast amount of stars in the sky, but then again I know it is just a feeling, produced by my body.
The stars up there (or their light I can see) couldn't care less about all the stars around them, so it's only that: A bunch of stars.
But having my mind react to that sight in such an emotional way, fuels my curiosity and wants to give it meaning and purpose.
Maybe that's another trick of life to sustain itself. IMO curiosity is one of the main motors for human advancement / advancement of life.