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Time-travel Paradoxes! (Page 4)
Author Topic: Time-travel Paradoxes!
Time02112
Member posted 09 December 2000 15:37
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...and another one, (Cleaned & Enlarged) version here:>
http://www.egroups.com/files/tapten/TAP-TEN/TT_0/T-T+Insignia.jpg
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Roby
unregistered posted 10 December 2000 12:07
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I was just wondering who won the Super Bowl in the year 2001?
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Tiger Cohen
Junior Member posted 10 December 2000 09:24
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Hello TT_O!
I have read some of the concourse up to the end of this topic’s dialogue. I find your answers to questions posed, quite … um, shall we say … creative. To say the least you are a very imaginative person.
I am not here debunking your travels or to discount your stated technology, but I do have just one question.
1. If your machine is capable of traveling back through time from future earth to now, I wonder how your vehicle landed on this earth at all? You obviously know that this earth and your earth do not occupy the same quadrant of space. Our earth is rotating along it’s axis at 1600kph and moving on an elliptical orbit around a sun in a solar system which itself is circling and expanding the galactic center of our galaxy which is itself ever-expanding outward. In truth your machine should (but doesn’t) also have some kind of ‘warp’ capability incorporated in it in order to go back in space to the point where we are now. It’s a wonder that your vehicle didn’t end up in deep space or caught in the gravity well of some other stellar mass. You would also need a life support system to sustain you until you were within earth’s atmosphere.
Oh, I know that you may claim to have access to galactic stellar cartography from this period of space and time, but how would you account for the earth’s rotational speed as well as the moon’s gravitation effect and lastly the avoidance of man made structures which are not totally mapped even by our geosynchronus comsats of this day?
I’m not worried about pieces of dirt within your temporal field or even the odd stray cat being dispersed by your resulting static electricity, but I am curious as to how you overcome all of these obstacles from the contoured seat of what you claim is just a time machine?
Pamela seemed concerned with the ‘go nowhere ripple effect’ that might occur when a time machine left and then returned, but I find even that logic flawed. I maintain that a time machine would imprint itself spatially upon a certain time period. Einstein’s Theory of Relativity would dictate that even if you left in such a machine for two minutes, this time would continue to advance and this world would still move through space and rotate. Therefore a time machine would NOT appear to stand still but rather would (depending upon the time interval) appear to suddenly defy gravity as it disappeared and then, free of the gravitational momentum, would reappear in near or far space. If you think my logic is faulty, then try jumping high in the air from the back of a flatbed truck while it moves along at freeway speeds.
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TimeTravel_0
unregistered posted 10 December 2000 11:00
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I will try to answer all of your questions however, I have noticed that there seems to be a difficulty in entering a conversation in the middle. Most of the following questions I have answered at length in previous posts. I understand how important it is to have these answers when new people read portions of the posting but I find it tiring to keep repeating myself. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
(I was just wondering who won the Super Bowl in the year 2001?)
I do not answer questions like this. Although I don’t really know the motivation for the question…I can guess. If a time traveler had knowledge of your future, and you could only ask one question, would this be it? Besides, can you tell me if it rained in New York on June 4th 1932? You are from their future so should you know that?
(I have read some of the concourse up to the end of this topic’s dialogue…. 1. If your machine is capable of traveling back through time from future earth to now, I wonder how your vehicle landed on this earth at all? You obviously know that this earth and your earth do not occupy the same quadrant of space…. You would also need a life support system to sustain you until you were within earth’s atmosphere… and lastly the avoidance of man made structures…)
This is actually a very good question that parts and pieces of the answer are scattered around in previous postings. I am often surprised that it is not the first one asked. You are correct, this problem is actually the most difficult part of time travel. Although some of your assumptions about matter displacement are a bit off, the problem is real. Inside the displacement unit are a series of very sensitive clocks and gravity sensors. This system is called the VGL (variable gravity lock). In simple terms, before the unit “leaves†a world line, it takes a base reading of the local gravity and adjusts the Tipler sinusoid to “lock†into that position. Although the tmporal physics of this statment are wrong, in effect, it holds you to the “Earthâ€. During travel, it periodically checks to see that the field has not varied. If it does, it stops and reverses course or drops out at that point. Buildings and other terrain features are avoided in the same way. Yes, we do bring oxygen in the vehicle with us but we do not lose atmospheric pressure.
(Pamela seemed concerned with the ‘go nowhere ripple effect’ that might occur when a time machine left and then returned, but I find even that logic flawed. I maintain that a time machine would imprint itself spatially upon a certain time period.)
I’m not sure what you mean by imprint?
(Einstein’s Theory of Relativity would dictate that even if you left in such a machine for two minutes, this time would continue to advance and this world would still move through space and rotate.)
Yes that is correct.
(Therefore a time machine would NOT appear to stand still but rather would (depending upon the time interval) appear to suddenly defy gravity as it disappeared and then, free of the gravitational momentum, would reappear in near or far space.)
Please see VGL system above. Also, please be aware that from the viewpoint of the time traveler, the displacement unit actually left and then returned. The viewer does not experience this. Think of it as a Gosub statement in a computer program.
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pamela
Member posted 10 December 2000 11:32
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from an e-mail to timetraveler_0 and his answers. (TTO-If any of this is different from what you sent me please let me know.this is copied and pasted.)
>1. what type of money system do you have on your world line? meaning how
do you buy and sell things? Do you have the same type of money or do we have
a cashless society? such as smart cards, credit cards or ID biochips.
Its not very different than it is now. Yes, we have money and credit cards.
However, like everything else, the monetary system is decentralized.
Banking is based mostly around the community structure. There are no
multinational banking or computerized economic systems. There are also no
income taxes.
>2. do you still use radio transponders to ID your cattle and other farm
animals?
Some of the larger farm communities use electronic markers and fences. I am
not a farmer so I don't have very many details about that.
>3.Is the Global Positioning Satellite system still in place around the
Earth?
Oh yes! In fact, the unit I have with me works here. I'm not sure why that
surprises me. There are also a great many communications and internet
satellite systems.
>4.Do you still have the American Flag as your flag? does it look different
or is there a new flag?
Yes, we still have the flag. There is a debate about changing it from 50
stars to 5.
>5.Is there some states or areas that have new names ? is there a NewDenver,
Kansas by any chance?
Not that I can think of... No major cities anyway. I am aware that some
smaller towns changed their names after the war and most universities have
the word "fort" before them on my world line.
>6. How many weeks of training is required before you timetravel? to what
extent does the training involve? Are you able to make basic emergency
repairs to the unit?
I started training on the recommendation of my PS officer when I got out of
school in 34. I graduated in March of 35. Actual hands on training started
soon after that and I left 2036 in April. No, there are not very many
repairs I can make to the unit. The unit is built very well but the
tolerances are very small. I could probably repair the electrical systems
and it will accept inputs from older computers.
>7.Are you able to fish or are the waters polluted from fallout from the
war?
Yes, we can fish. There are some areas that are still too dangerous to
spend a lot of time in so we can't fish in those areas.
>8.Are you aware of any time travelers from our time or other world lines
that have entered your world line? Have you spoke to any of them?
No I am not aware. But I accept the possibility.
>9.What type of public transportation is used to get around in your cities?
A high speed train system connects the larger cities. Roads are still used
for cars and many people ride horses and bikes.
>10. What things do you think you will take back with you from this time?
Books! I'm also taking copies of family photos that were lost during the
war.
>11. How many weeks have you been in this world line? when did you arrive?
That I must keep to myself right now.
>12. What kind of books do you like to read? What kind of music do you
like? do you play a musical instrument?
I read a great deal of history. I like piano classics and some older rock
and roll. (why did that type of music go so far down hill?) No, I don't play
any instruments myself.
>13.Are you concerned about our government investigating you or trying to
seize you or your device?
Not really. In order to find me, they would have to believe time travel is
possible.
>14. are you videotaping or taking pictures of the events going on here to
bring back with you to your time?
Oh yes.
>15. what is your favorite food to eat? here and in your world line.
Its very hard for me to find food here. It all scares the Hell out of me.
I've found a couple of local farms where I am resonably sure the raw food is
safe and my mother started a garden for me.
>16.does the cure for cancer have any thing to do with genetics?
Again...I'm no expert. I believe there is a great deal of progress in
treating the cancer cells with modified viruses. So I guess the answer is
yes.
>17.Do you have an increase in tornados and earthquakes than what we have
now? is the average temperature in Florida in your time about the same as it
is here? or is it different?
That's one area I've decided not to talk about...sorry. The average
temperature worldwide is a bit cooler.
>18. are any of the other 7 time travelers with you in this world line or
are you by yourself?
No. They are off doing something else I'm sure.
>19. are there time travel web sites in the future? does this one still
exist?
Time travel is a major point of social discussion. I'll have to check when
I get back. Most of the larger servers that were in the major cities were
lost or destroyed. I'll try to bring a copy back with me. Perhaps you can
check that in your 2036.
>20.do you feel any connection at all to your other 2 year old self on this
world line? does it seem like you or someone totally different? who does he
think you are when you talk to him?
He calls me uncle. Yes, there is a connection. He fells like a younger
brother. Sometimes I get mixed emotions watching him and realize I'm
watching the origins of my personality. I tend to playfully criticize my
father about that.
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djayr42
Member posted 10 December 2000 13:00
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Time Travel_0, some more questions for you. What is the education system like? For children? For adults? Is there more home schooling then there is now. What are the class sizes like? Is there any emphasis on a subject or subjects that are don't exsist now?
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rgrunt
unregistered posted 10 December 2000 13:10
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Are you going to take your family away with you to protect them from the coming events. Is this a temptation for you? Aren't you worried about somebody finding your ship?
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pamela
Member posted 11 December 2000 12:58
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Reflecting upon the words timetravler_0 has shared with me personally and what I have posted of some of our conversations and watching the news everyday seeing what is happening now in Florida and the courts has made me think deeply upon the United States and the US constitution. What the US was founded on origionally.
I found a web site that has the US constitution and the bill of rights here:
http://www.nara.gov/exhall/charters/charters.html
for anybody interested in reading it.
I printed out the whole constitution including the bill of rights and then sat down and read the whole thing out loud to myself thinking deeply on the rights our founding fathers were trying to protect.
For those of you U.S. citizens who cant remember the constitution beyond the words,
"we the people." its probably time to take another look.
You never know what the future will be like.
or how it will change.
The future is up to us.....
At the beginning of the constitution the first three words "WE THE PEOPLE.." was written in large letters on purpose.
sincerely,
pamela
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Dr Light
unregistered posted 11 December 2000 05:27
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TT-O,
Could you elaborate on my previous questions..
I.E
How and why do the arabs/jews become entangled in the civil war of the U.S.A?
Also, about my previous question.. If you would look around you may notice that jewish poeple seem to hold "considerable" power concering major political positions both in America and Israel. For instance the latest technology concerning "defensive" technology
which you might think is reserved only for the superpowers, somehow made its way into Israel's hands...
My point is that they seem to be an "underhand" world power that no-one seems to recognise,(or so it seems)
Also about the Arab side of affairs, they seem to be holding Biological weapons and thermonuclear weaponry. Do they end up launching these weapons against America or any other power?
I hope that cleared up my points somewhat.
Thanks,
Dr.P.Light
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Shadow
unregistered posted 12 December 2000 20:36
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To TT-0
"Show me the money!" More impressive than the pix of your TT machine would be a clear photo of your post 2000 pocket change and paper currency.
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Fast
Member posted 12 December 2000 21:01
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yes,im with shadow.show me the money
i remember reading somewhere online that somebody met their future self and got a dollar's worth of quarters from the future...
did they ever finish the 50 State Quarters,or did war break out and they halted it??
Fast Out
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Time02112
Member posted 13 December 2000 03:15
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Count me in on that on also (Good point)
while your at it, why not give us all a video, and provide us with a Link that would allow us to watch online, demonstrating your machine in use?
(perhaps as a parting gift.)
I still (patiently, patiently, PATIENTLY) await answers to several previous questions.
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Trintius
unregistered posted 13 December 2000 08:17
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TimeTravel_0 a few questions,
- Just wondering who actually wins the US election, it's fair question and im assuming they have Encyclopedia's in the year 2036 so you have no excuse for not knowing the history of your own country?
- Secondly, thanks to national pride I must ask what becomes of Australia during and after the war?
Thanks for your time.
P.S - Dr Light stop peppering the poor time traveler with monotonous questions about arabs and jews, we all know you guys are gunna take over the world one day so theres no need to rub it in
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TimeTravel_0
unregistered posted 13 December 2000 12:44
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Well…it looks like the election is almost over. I have been quite busy in the last few days and I appreciate everyone’s patience. I should be thanking you for listening and even if everything I have said before means nothing, I expect it has at least been entertaining. I went through the postings looking for questions I have not addressed yet. I hope I got to all of them. I get my email remotely through about three different systems and I use one of your hand-held computer units to write with. In a few days, I would like to send Pamela a list of questions of my own. As you know, one of my areas of expertise is in history and the information I have gathered has been invaluable. Although I am not leaving right away, I would like to include some of your thoughts in my report.
(Who's to say that someone that will read this board, will be the one to actually invent the means for the C204 (or other units) to be operational? The divergence factor is so low, everybody will forget about this in a short time. I wouldn't worry about it When Timetravel_0 goes back, this will be nothing but a memory...)
This statement is quite insightful. One of the reasons I have been communicating this way is so that others that do not post who I have directed here can see some of the information I have shared with you.
(You speak of 1 & 2 % "divergence" as being unimportant. I don't get it. Like for example if OUR IBM5100 is 1% different than the code you have to run on it, it ain't gonna work right. One percent in the FL vote count would be important. If I could see only 99% of the cars on the road it would be important to me. So, what exactly is X% divergent, and why is it not a major problem?)
The divergence measurement refers to the local gravitational field as compared to the point of origin. It is mearly an empirical indicator of overall change in a world line. Some things that are quite different on one world line have very little effect as time passes and the world lines appear to “converge†again and look very similar. World line changes are not exponential, they act more like chaotic attractors with varying effect depending on their size and location.
(Reading your posts I get conflicting ideas about what effect our timeline has on yours. Didn't you say that "another you" was here now as a two year old child? Is the 'Everret Many Worlds' interpretation of quantum mechanics it the correct one then? You seem to look at us as representative of your ACTUAL predecessors. There is something a bit unnerving about that. In fact the main reason why I think you might be genuine is that I have trouble thinking LIKE you do. I would expect this of an encounter with a "Chrono-alien".)
You are correct in your thinking. This world line is not mine but it looks very similar. It may be compared to reading two books that are the same. I can jump back and forth between them and still see the same story. I do not consider you true representatives of my world line but I do know something of how the story ends. In consideration of Everret-Wheeler, the reason we don’t know if Schrodinger’s cat is dead is because it might have had a time machine.
(Russia has "ALWAYS" been considered the first Country, to be suspect of a probable Nuclear Attack against the USA, and I, for one have NEVER relinquished the thought that inevitably, this will happen while I remain alive to witness this unfortunate tragedy come to fruition.)
You are also correct but I want to add a twist to your thinking. Russia’s enemy in the United States is not you, the average person. Russia’s enemy is the United States government.
(The fact that better equipment is supposed to get the reverse-time traveler closer to their actual past indicates that there is an ACTUAL SPECIFIC past that he is aiming for. So if in practical application the traveler ends up 2% divergent upon arrival in the past and if he stays in that line he finds that it is not a line at all, but that going forward, divergence approaches infinity.)
Yes, this is true. If I go forward on this world line, the future will not be my future. I get home by going back to 1975 before I arrived and then going forward to 2036.
(Also if this theory is correct we may be 2% divergent from TT_0 but going forward in this time line he is 98% divergent from us. My logic is pretty good here, how's my facts?)
Your deductions are quite accurate. (I’m not stating yet that I did… but) what if I told you I did go forward to “your†2036 and it looks nothing like mine. It is quite possible.
(BTW Someone just gave me a working IBM 5160. Should I save it or toss it?)
Toss it. The 5100 is the interesting machine.
(Does the events happening in the Middle east concerning the Arabs and Jews have anything to do with the coming war? I mean to say that since the Jewish population seems to have quite considerable power now in 2000, would they mount a force against other countries or am I under the belief that the war will result from the U.S government election?(among other things).)
Real disruptions in world events begin with the destabilization of the West as a result of degrading US foreign policy and consistency. This becomes apparent around 2004 as civil unrest develops near the next presidential election. The Jewish population in Israel is not prepared for a true offensive war. They are prepared for the ultimate defense. Wavering western support for Israel is what gives Israel’s neighbors the confidence to attack. The last resort for a defensive Israel and it’s offensive Arab neighbors is to use weapons of mass destruction. In the grand scheme of things, the war in the middle-east is a part of what’s to come, not the cause.
(What can you tell us about
"Space Time Transposing" ?)
Perhaps you could describe what you mean? It appears to be space travel or the effect of similar atomic particles that seem to be related over great distances. Again, please forgive my ignorance, I am not a trained physist.
(There is a foretelling of a significant Time Divergence that is believed to occur during the year 2012 according to the ancient Mayans, yet you claim to be from 2034, and posses a working Time Travel device... What can you tell us would happen to you, or anyone else who were to use your device, or another one similar in capabilities to travel to the yr. 2012???----------also I would like you to tell us what you know, or have been told what takes place in "2112")
In my 2012, I was 14 years old spending most of my time living, running and hiding in the woods and rivers of central Florida. The civil war was in its 7th year and the world war was three years away. Yes, there are unusual events in 2012 but they do not cause the world to end. Unfortunately, I have decided not to discuss events that you or I can do anything about. It is important that they be a surprise. Perhaps you are familiar with the story of the Red Sea and the Egyptians?
(It’s no big secret among those who are "In the Know" of our current world line’s attempts to control the weather i.e. HAARP & Chemtrails, so What can you tell us about the future of weather control such as the following...
bronze flying globes that float in the air over the earth, and are aligned in grid formations, and lasers joining them together in the air, churning out snow storms, rain, or whatever else they decide to induce, to be created in the given space provided???)
I must admit I am unfamiliar with most of what you have asked here. I am aware of the Harp system but I don’t know how they would control weather with it.
(What is the education system like? For children? For adults? Is there more home schooling then there is now. What are the class sizes like? Is there any emphasis on a subject or subjects that are don't exist now?)
The education system has been through many changes. School in 2036 is no longer a political indoctrination system and students “learn how to learnâ€. Since community activity varies from place to place, the emphasis on basic reading, math and language is augmented with skills particular to the community. One school may emphasis farming while another teaches woodworking. Having children is a bit different and less common in 2036. A typical school day involves a setting very much like it was 100 years ago with smaller classes and few administrators to teachers. Other areas of study that are less common now are history, citizenship and personal economics.
(Are you going to take your family away with you to protect them from the coming events. Is this a temptation for you? Aren't you worried about somebody finding your ship?)
No I am not taking them with me but I am trying to prepare them for the future as a promise to my Grandfather in 1975. I am not really that concerned about the “time machineâ€. It is quite safe.
(How and why do the Arabs Jews become entangled in the civil war of the U.S.A?)
They are not directly involved but political situations are dependant on Western stability, which collapses in 2005.
(Also about the Arab side of affairs, they seem to be holding Biological weapons and thermonuclear weaponry. Do they end up launching these weapons against America or any other power? )
Not against America but they are used against each other.
("Show me the money!" More impressive than the pix of your TT machine would be a clear photo of your post 2000 pocket change and paper currency.)
I am disappointed that you feel I am trying to impress you. Why would I bring money from 2036 with me? Besides, isn’t that something that could easily be faked? Now if I told you I was your cousin’s brother and I knew about that scare on your left leg…that would convince you.
(while your at it, why not give us all a video, and provide us with a Link that would allow us to watch online, demonstrating your machine in use?
(perhaps as a parting gift.)
That is an interesting idea. I will look into how to do that.
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