This is VERY interesting

First off there are more than 2 parties but in my state there were only 2 for Pres and VP Dem and Rep. That was no choice… Also, everyone has ignored the right to abstain in nearly every quarter of the government our Reps are allowed to abstain from vote and it is recorded but we can’t officially abstain from vote and it be recorded other than being told we are lazy or stupid for not voting. My Father’s idea is a valid one and would let our Government understand that we are in control and don’t like it and are going to do something about it.
As far as getting the other parties in an election I am all for it, but the way the funding laws and election laws are written the Dems and Reps are not going to share the wealth, if you know what I mean.
Let’s face it, Titor might be right and yes it is from what I read from him a Midwest and coast thing to a greater degree. It is the city vs. country conflict, one is Liberal and the other Conservative, and they are getting farther apart each day…
And yes, the Constitution has been twisted to mean things that it does not say or imply. Look at the 1st Amendment, Journalists think it means they have the right to conceal sources from a judge. How is that the freedom of the press? Separation of Church and State does not appear there, but just after WWII a former Klansman who just so happened to be on the Supreme Court used this, at that point, obscure Jefferson quote in a Judgment and because people try to read into the Constitution it has become law. The funniest thing is that Jefferson had little or more like nothing to do with the first 10 Amendments to the Constitution, he was in France at the time. The quote comes from a letter to a church group that in his opinion that is what it meant.
I have a quote for you all.
They say that life's a carousel
Spinning fast, you've got to ride it well
The world is full of Kings and Queens
Who blind your eyes and steal your dreams
It's Heaven and Hell, oh well
And they'll tell you black is really white
The moon is just the sun at night
And when you walk in golden halls
You get to keep the gold that falls
It's Heaven and Hell, oh no!
Fool, fool!
:eek:
 
Hey Nemesvs,

My Father’s idea is a valid one and would let our Government understand that we are in control and don’t like it and are going to do something about it.
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IMHO, his idea is incomplete and not well-thought-out. For instance, your brief desription of his idea gives absolutely no indication of how the electoral votes are impacted on a per-state basis. His idea seems to be endorsing a wholesale upheavel of existing election laws without clear identification of ONLY those parts that are currently flawed, nor identifying impacts to existing election laws. That is a recipe for disaster, and as some of his critics rightly identified, anarchy. Now, I am sure you will come back with the tired adage that so many use about how "the electoral process is outdated and no longer useful." To which not only myself, but many election scholars have always said this view is incorrect. In fact, the "winner take all" electoral process could very well be one of the pieces of legislation that has kept us together as a nation of states which have very different views because of our vast, expansive geography. It ensures that the strongest candidate in any state wins that state, which is a means to pacify the electorate of THAT sovereign state. Without it, you would have the dense population states on the eastern seaboard deciding every, single president, and those of us out west would get ticked off pretty damn quick. Furthermore, his idea could also, quite easily, result in ad nauseum elections without a clear point at which a winner is decided. This would cause huge uncertainty ni our nation and its economy, and you don't need to look far back in history to see how the markets react to uncertainty. Look at all the ballot challenges and recounts of the past two presidential elections, and then ask yourself how much worse it would be if now we had to do recounts just to see if those citizens abstaining actually were a larger number than those who selected a viable candidate? No end in sight to those appeals, I am afraid.

And while I am at it, you did not provide any supporting evidence for this statement you made in response to my statement about how abstaining from the vote is giving up your willful participation in our democracy:

Okay, this statement is an old argument that at one time might have held up but no longer.
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Would you like to explain this and provide supporting data for this? I really don't think you can, because how can you make any statement about why each INDIVIDUAL decides not to vote? And clearly, our vote is the SOLE action we possess as citizens that is legally protected and can never be taken away for how the people affect and install the government they wish. Please support this statement so I can understand its veracity, because right now it amounts to nothing more than weak handwaving.

RMT
 
Hi Newbie,

RMT, out of curiosity, would a 3 acre zone at 400C in SoCal, applied to your model, show any change in probablities? Or is this temp data not used in your model or was already present?
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Nah, it's such a small area it is not even worth trying to stick it in my model. My model uses a grid centered on the San Andreas from the Mexican border to about 200 miles N of San Fran and 200 miles on either side of the fault. Within that area I have placed a grid of 500 points long and 100 points wide. So that right there should tell you that the granularity of this small place in Los Padres is much too fine to have any noticeable effect on my model. Furthermore, I use historically reported AIR temps, not surface temps, in order to calculate some fairly gross thermal gradients. I then use a homogenous scale factor to translate from air temp to earth crust temps. So really I am only modeling the thermal effects on the crust due to surrounding air. This is a result of re-radiated heat. I would have to build a grid under the earth's crust, and then populate it with surface temp data (of which I do not know of a source database available).

Essentially, it would be apples and oranges. But my gut feel tells me that this area is so small and localized that it is not going to have an appreciable effect on fault stresses. Let's wait until we get into the next high thermal rate of change in the SEP-NOV timeframe, and I might have some more predictions.


RMT
 
Rain man I am going to stop sparing with you. There is no use.
I will tell you that I gave you, if you actually read my first comment about it, a brief explanation of my Fathers idea, his was a 24 page paper submitted as a bill to our state legislature ghost written by a friend of the family that was a lawyer and former legislator for our state. I was not about to send the entire text.
As for the point of no voting: You really are not as intelligent as you wish you were are you? Every election there is great concern for those who aren’t voting or even registering to do so. There are many reasons for this but, I have found in the last 4 decades it has grown and the reason seems that is becoming more evident that a huge mass of people have realized that the 2 choices given in most states is just not enough. And yes we should restructure the whole electoral system but that I won’t address to you anymore, I don’t want to hurt your brain.
Your attacks about my thoughts just prove your inability to open your mind I have read so many comments over the months you have written. Start thinking out of the box would you…
 
Rain man I am going to stop sparing with you.
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It's a free country & an open forum.

Every election there is great concern for those who aren’t voting or even registering to do so. There are many reasons for this but, I have found in the last 4 decades it has grown and the reason seems that is becoming more evident that a huge mass of people have realized that the 2 choices given in most states is just not enough.
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I would agree with the statement that there are many reasons. However, I would think it would take a fairly scientific survey to be able to acertain the largest reason. Let me throw out another possibility: laziness, apathy, self-centeredness and indifference? You must admit that these attitudes pervade more than just our citizens' attitudes towards politics. In fact, they are becoming a whole way of life for many people. Often such attitudes come from people who believe it is government's job to take care of people, rather than the other way around.

if you actually read my first comment about it
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I have read and considered everything you wrote. To do less would be disrespectful to your thoughts and opinions. But I am not sure you get the gist of my responses. If all these people who are nopt voting are, as you claim, simply fed-up (but still engaged in shaping our government) then why are they not actively working to change things? Heck, at least your father was trying to do something, for which I give him credit, and for which I give you credit for carrying his torch. However, if we have this large block of people not voting because they don't like the choices, and if these people are earnest about changing things, why is this large block not active and organizing? Sadly, I am afraid that the evidence tends to support my theory above. People are lazy and indifferent. Yes, it may be due to the fact that they don't like the choices they are given. But if they just refuse to vote, rather than acting to change the political landscape, then they are really just being lazy.

Ever since I was of voting age I have challenged and engaged each person I met that told me they didn't vote. And from my own, personal survey the answers I get tend to support my findings. Answers like: "Oh, my vote doesn't make a difference" or "I don't have the time to dedicate to reading the ballots and going to vote" and "Nothing is going to change the fact that politics is crooked." These are answers from people who are indifferent... people who do not WISH to participate or want to even try to change the political landscape.

Why change the electoral process, when it seems that it is the electorate who is indifferent to the tasks that government is chartered to carry out? More politically-savvy people than myself have noted that the Democratic party seems to be more adrift than the Repubs. Why are all the so-called DEM constituents not rallying to reshape their party and its message? Apathy perhaps? I certainly do not think that electing Howard Dean as the party chair is an action that is intended to address the reasons they lost so badly in the last elections. Where is the groundswell of grass roots support that is working to change them, and make them more centrist (which is clearly the majority of American voters)?

These are my observations, and supporting arguments, for why people are not voting. And I am certainly not alone in my observations.
RMT
 
Creedo goes to a councilor about you know who? :

Councilor,..You know Creeds, according to you, he's not such a bad, guy; but the girl thing, he will have to work out for himself?

Creeds,..Your right doc, I guess he has to find his way, but she was such a perfect match for him.

Councilor,..Wait' stop right there!__You said, or described this match for him, as being able to track him to the centimeter.

Don't you think for a second, that this is just a little scary to a guy,.I mean having a woman that can track his movements over one thousand yards, to the very centimeter?

Creeds,..But I meant well.I mean' he seemed like he could use a little help??!!
 
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