They got it all wrong!

I've been thinking about this whole free will bit. What exactly is it?

Read a biogrophy on someone who's long dead. There's her/his life, written down and documented. It might as well be set in stone.

Looking at it from the future, it seems like predestination.

Say you had a time machine. You could take that book back with you, and follow that person through his life. You'd know about all those important decisions he would make, and how it would all pan out for him.

For the person who's living this life however, it seems like he has free will. It's all relative.

Alot of people don't like the idea of destiny, because if you take away free will, what are you? You might as well be a robot. And all that crappy stuff that happens to me...are you saying it's meant to be that way? I don't like it either, but it's a possibility we can't ignore.

(This part has been added a little bit later)

I just thought of something. What if after you travel back you were to kill the person? (who the biography is about)

If there is destiny, than you won't be able to, but if you succeeded, what would that mean?

I was thinking about parallel universe, in which there are infinite possibilities. What if the decisions we make somehow transfer us to another universe?

Like in this universe, say when I'm 70, I will be broke and penniless. Maybe. But suppose I decide to go out and play the stock market right now?

I could be transfered (Not bodily, but perhaps mentaly...Spirituly?) to a universe where I'll be a millionaire when i'm 70.

A cross between free will and destiny.

<This message has been edited by Jack D (edited 12 June 2000).>
 
Ooh a philosophical debate... I love these...

So what you're saying, TTA, is that there's something beyond our senses which serves as an ultimate judge as to whether we have free will or not. I disagree. To me (philosophically), personal experience is the only reality. If I live my entire life thinking that the cactus I ate was a cheeseburger, I'm in exactly the same (mental) state as if I'd actually eaten a cheeseburger. Since to me the ultimate truth of my history and state rely solely on my personal experiences, what I experience is, to me, the same as reality. What else could it be? So if I believe, for my entire life, that I have free will, and I act accordingly, as if I had free will, in effect I have free will. Some outside observer may, in his subjective reality, observe that I don't have free will, and am in fact being manipulated, but to me my actions and beliefs are the same as reality.

This is of course a deeply philosophical question, and one which does not effectively change the workings of the physical sciences - in effect, there are certain physical laws which all of our subjective realities have in common, and this is the basis of science, from the philosophical point of view. Hmm... quantum observers?
 
You missed the entire point Janus. As usual...

Just because it's in your mind and it's a firm believe you have about it. It doesn't make it true unless it's proven and accepted by society. We choose to call a cheese burger a cheese burger. We gave it that name, to know what that specific food is. You think that you can change and re-designate the being of something? Fine, be delusional. Your no better then a Time Traveler changing people's lives without them knowing.

But the fact of the matter is, if it's real and it's happening, you can't say it's not. Same if it's a cactus, you can't call it a cheese burger. For obvious reasons, a cheese burger doesn't have thorns.

You think you know it all Janus? You don't know anything... You hide behind your words, and are passively arrogant and hostile to everyone in your posts. Squashing and attacking everyone's ideas, with your superior intellect every time someone says something new and interesting. What are you hoping to get from this superior attitude you protray all the time Janus? Why not be more open? Your so ready to prove everyone wrong, why? Or are you just an A-hole? Why am I even wasting my time with you... You don't even think Time Travel is real now.

-Javier C.

<This message has been edited by TimeTravelActivist (edited 12 June 2000).>
 
TTA: This is philosophy. In philosophy, there are no absolute answers. One view can be as valid as any other, even if they are mutually contradictory. Maybe you should ask good 'ole Dr. Anderson about it...

What's the nature of reality? As I said before, you believe that there is a standard beyond the mind of the individual by which to judge the validity of our thoughts and observations - society as a whole. I was stating a different viewpoint, in which one can't be sure of anything beyond one's own thoughts. How do I know that what I see is not all one vast illusion? And what's the difference to me if it is, but I don't know?

At any rate, it's philosophy. Not physics. Nothing to get so worked up about. And besides, I haven't been 'passively arrogant and hostile' to anyone but you and Time02112, for the simple reason that you take so much offense at my statements, and so blatantly denounce me. Am I not supposed to take offence at your early, blatant insults to me?
 
- just came surfing in here with the hope of reading some enlightening ideas about time-travel. But what do I see? The predictable flame-war antics found of any given message board. Supposedly mature people reduced to bickering and snapping over differences in opinion. Pointless exchanges. Toys all over the floor....

How dull.

I really hope that you lot don't represent the state of the time-travel research community, otherwise we might as well give up.

BTW Don't bother replying to this or including me in your little arguments - I won't be here to read them.
 
Janus, so now it's philosophy we're discussing... Geee, so it's only when you bring it up when anyone can talk about it without getting attacked by you?

Why don't you get all metaphysical in some other message board and tell everyone there your ideas. I'm sure they'll welcome you with open arms =). I was being sarcastic... Your a lonely man Janus. Be more open minded, cause you really don't have a clue at what's going on. And the same goes about Time Travel.

-Javier C.
 
TTA, I will no longer be reading or responding to any posts you make on any topic. So go hurl insults and preach your beliefs to someone else; I won't be listening.
 
That's right Janus you do that. Cause you know the truth hurts when it's you who's proven wrong =). You just keep on weslsing your way out things, make excuses. Oh yeah, you said because I insulted you. And how many times have you insuled other here?

That's what I thought. Your arrogance speaks for it self... End of story. Have a nice day.

-Javier C.
 
"Rotating Electromagnetic Fields"

I cannot stress the isssue enough, as to the importance that this has in relation to the underlying principles necessary to achieve an understanding of those many unanswered questions pertaining to "Time~Travel"

I mean really now, just how much research, and information have we gathered "recently" pertaining to the effects of REMF combined with other areas of physics & scientific studies?



------------------
"Everything you know,...is Wrong!
soon we shall all discover the truth."

p)'i4q4
 
I still remain by my claim;
"They got it all wrong"!
and I will do whatever is necessary to prove it!

and it makes no difference if I succeed, or not, because the Truth always prevails.

------------------
"Everything you know,...is Wrong!
soon we shall all discover the truth."

p)'i4q4
 
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