Superfluid/light analogy to fluid/sound

RainmanTime

RainmanTime

Super Moderator
If anyone is "buying in" to the self-similarity between speed of sound and speed of light, and their relationships to their respective mediums of normal fluid, and superfluid, then perhaps we can transcend our light-based senses in an attempt to guess what characteristics of the superfluid mimic those of an ordinary fluid.

An interesting phenomenon develops when a body exceeds the speed of sound in some fluid, such as air. A shock wave is formed. That shock wave is an infinitesimally thin "event horizon" in the air. Across that "event horizon", the temperature, pressure, and density of air change drastically. In science, we call that a step-change, a discontinuity, a non-linear phenomenon. And there is another thing that a shock wave does to its surroundings: It distorts the light passing through it, just like light is distorted when it passes through water. The rapid change in density of air across the shock distorts the light enough to make the shock stand-out. This is how we visualize shock waves in supersonic wind tunnels, by taking advantage of the light distortion. This is called Schlierien photography.

So if the density of our normal fluid (air) is radically increased in the presence of a body traveling at supersonic speeds, and self-similarity applies, then what would happen to the superfluid in the presence of a body traveling at superluminal speeds? The density of the superfluid would also be drastically increased. That would be my guess. And since the shock wave density makes the otherwise invisible air visible (via Schlieren photography), then what would be the equivalent of a shock wave for a compressed region of superfluid?

My guess would be that this is what we perceive as MATTER. And Einstein did tell us that Matter is super-dense energy. Hmmm....are things fitting together here? Let's keep this analogy going. With a shock wave, we not only have a large change in density across the shock, but there is another parameter that changes drastically across the shock: Air pressure. For example, if we have standard sea-level pressure (29.92 inches of mercury) in front of a Mach 2 normal shock wave, gas dynamic relationships will tell us that the pressure behind that shock wave will be quite a bit greater...as in 134.64 inches of mercury. That is 4.5 times atmospheric pressure!!! That is precisely why the forces of drag are so large on a supersonic jet fighter, because the pressure increase is enormous as compared to subsonic flight.

And now the superfluid situation with light. Do we know of a physical parameter dealing with matter and/or light that acts like a form of "pressure"? We certainly do! We call it GRAVITY! In the world of supersonic aerodynamics, "drag sucks"...and so does gravity in the world of superluminal superfluid dynamics!

Now isn't this interesting??? Does anyone wish to do some further conjecturing on this analogy? What might this tell us about how gravity could be manipulated?

Kind Regards,
RainmanTime
 
We all know that gravity can be manipulated through centifugal force. It is easy to create gravity where gravity does not exist. After all, is it not because of the Earth's centrifugal force that we remain rooted to the ground? So if we can create gravity, then we certainly have the ability to manipulate it in any way we want. I just wish I knew how.

The Doctor
 
Actually, centrifugal force does not keep us on the earth. Spinning of the earth would cause us to fly off, if the earth actually spun at a fast clip. The mass/density of the earths core is what outputs this 'gravity' we experiance. Centrifugal force only has a small part in what we percieve as gravity, and it is a canceling effect. gravity would be about 0.34%(+/- a fraction) higher if the earth stopped spinning
 
centrifugal force is not a real force by the way. if you were to for example build a ring around the earth(far enough away to not touch anything, but close as possible) that spun hundreds(thousands?) of times faster than the earth does. and then say you were to stand on the outside of this ring. if it spun at a certain speed, you would 'feel' weightless (until you stepped off it and gravity pulled you back down onto it)
if it spins slower than this rate you will feel lighter, but not weightless. if it spins somewhat faster, and you were to jump, you might be able to jump fairly high, until gravity exerts enough force to slow and pull you back down. if it spins a 'lot' faster than this rate you will fly of if (in an arc as gravity trys to pull you back down, without gravity your line of travel from this ring would be a straight tangent) when gravity can no longer keep you within its grasp.

if you were to stand on the inside of this ring (so your head points towards the earth and feet to sky) then you would feel a completly different (opposite) effect from above.

centrifugal force is an experiance of acceleration, you are always experiancing accelerating effects if you are traveling in a circle.

think about swinging a bucket ov water in a circle above your head. its pretty easy to keep it spinning and the water in the bucket. the problem is when you try to slow down to stop. gravity is an accelerating effectthat quickly overcomes the outward acceleration caused by your spin..
 
But does the water not increase in weight the faster it is spun due to the amount of G-force created by the centrifugal force? And is not g-force the measure of gravity?
 
centrifugal force is an experiance of acceleration, you are always experiancing accelerating effects if you are traveling in a circle.
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A ha! Yet another piece of the mystery of the universe! I am glad The (Good) Doctor brought it up, and also glad you've given us such a good explanation, Jayson. But let's review our definitions of centrifugal and centripetal to make sure we are all on the same page.... and then a quote from James Clerk Maxwell

centrifugal - adj 1: tending to move away from a center; "centrifugal force"
centripetal - adj 1: tending to move toward a center; "centripetal force"

"Note: When a body moves in a circle with uniform velocity, a force must act on the body to keep it in the circle without change of velocity. The direction of this force is towards the center of the circle. If this force is applied by means of a string to the body, the string will be in a state of tension. To a person holding the other end of the string, this tension will appear to be directed toward the body as if the body had a tendency to move away from the center of the circle which it is describing. Hence this latter force is often called centrifugal force. The force which really acts on the body being directed towards the center of the circle is called centripetal force, and in some popular treatises the centripetal and centrifugal forces are described as opposing and balancing each other. But they are merely the different aspects of the same stress. --Clerk Maxwell.
"

So centriFugal is the Fictitious force. Centripetal is the "real" one, tending towards the center of rotation.

But the underlying theme here is ROTATION, and the "magic" thereof. We see it all around us in the universe, so it must be an important clue. The theory of conservation of angular momentum tells us that the rotation of a star and its planets comes from the original angular momentum of the stellar cloud that it was formed from. But now where did THAT rotation originally come from? Since we are all made of "star stuff", to quote the late, great, Carl Sagan, understanding where universal rotation comes from is paramount to understanding why we are here, and how we can manipulate universal forces.... Methinks this is the route to understanding how to "fold space", or travel interdimensionally through the superfluid.

The fundamental aspect of rotation that governs centripetal acceleration is rotational velocity...so there is that "matter in motion" theme again. And rotational velocity, since we are discussing a closed circle, is directly related to FREQUENCY. And we also know frequency to be directly related to vibration...sounds, and light, and....mass! Where is this all going???? And what does it have to do with time travel??? Hang on...we are almost there!

If you accept the premise that TIME is defined by MATTER which is in MOTION, then perhaps you can also accept the following definitions:

MATTER is MASS that changes over TIME (i.e. your body is MATTER, but it is not made up of the exact same MASS as when you were born. You exchange MASS as you live. How MASS changes over TIME is also related to frequency, and therefore vibration.)

MOTION is SPACE that changes over TIME (this is the technical definition of velocity... feet per second, miles per hour...and velocity is related to rotation, frequency, and vibration!)

So MASS, TIME, and SPACE are all interrelated. And yet we are capable of traveling through SPACE, right? When we go for a walk, or drive our cars, or fly our airplanes. We use MASS in one form to produce thrust, which pushes against the MASS we wish to move, and viola, we propel ourselves through SPACE. TIME is the end result, and it passes in a fixed means depending upon how quickly the MASS pushes through SPACE. Your body is also a bunch of MASS that is constantly in vibratory motion, and so this is what creates your own local timeframe (world line).

So now we wish to travel through TIME, instead of SPACE. Since we leverage one form of MASS against another as a means to travel through SPACE, then it would seem we would need to leverage one form of SPACE against another form of SPACE, as a means to travel through TIME. And guess what? Just as TIME is the end result of MASS moving through SPACE, so then MASS will become the end result when we "propel" SPACE through TIME. But what does this mean???? Unfortunately, what it means is that our bodies MUST and WILL change if we wish to travel through time. This is the primary reason there can never be a "John Titor" who has a body in 2036, propels it thru time to 2000, and has the same body, intact, and able to type internet messages. That is just not how the matrix of MASSIVE SPACETIME works!

Now, if SPACE is really not empty, as we once thought, but is instead filled with this mysterious "superfluid", then in all liklihood, harmonic & dissonant vibrations of that superfluid are probably the means by which we will be able to "leverage" one form of SPACE against another. This is the essence of the science which Hal Puthoff has called "metric engineering", which involves finding a way to engineer space (the superfluid).

Now....does anyone sense any self-similarities between the above discussion, and say....oh, I don't know... certain descriptions of spirituality???? Perhaps the concept of an ETERNAL SOUL, which is comprised of some "different" form of MASS (that we cannot perceive in our given form of MASS), which is capable of traveling to any TIME, and therefore it travels THRU TIME! Perhaps, if you and I DO possess an eternal and immortal soul, we already have the means to time travel???

Kind Regards,
RainmanTime
 
Im starting to like the idea of superfluids. Especially folding the fabric of space to cross vast distances. I'm sure that if space is in fact matter (in the form of a superfluid) then it must be able to be manipulated. The idea that jumps to mind is a wormhole. Is it possible that a destination could be predicted if space is created of superfluid. Could we say, I want to travel x miles, and be able to do it in one bound?

The Doctor

P.S. I am good, just not at everything.

P.P.S. I am also not a pyhsicist
 
P.S. I am good, just not at everything.
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P.P.P.S. But then again, this applies to everyone. I'm good with aerospace stuff, moderate at cooking, and I'm dumb as a brick in business.

P.P.S. I am also not a pyhsicist
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P.P.P.P.S And I'm not a pastor. Doesn't mean you don't wonder about things outside your expertise.

Is it possible that a destination could be predicted if space is created of superfluid. Could we say, I want to travel x miles, and be able to do it in one bound?
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Well, if you follow what I say above, the "destination" would be someWHEN, in time. You would "fold space" (engineer the metric) to go from where/who/when you are right now, and end up at the destination time, in some other form of mass. Maybe visible, maybe not. This is the variable you can't control, if you are shooting for a point in time.

If you are astute enough to have followed along in this story of mine, you may have likely seen and defined for yourself, the third and final alternative to interdimensional travel:

You could define a "destination" as being a someTHING, in mass. In this case, if I again "fold space" as a means to "travel" to that point of mass, then the uncontrolled variable again becomes time. You would not be able to predict WHEN in time you would be, only that you would take on the form of Mass that you had in mind.

Compare these two forms of travel described above to what we, in our current state as humans, perceive to be "the only mode of travel":

We typically define a "destination" as being somePLACE, in space. We are very good at "folding mass" (manipulating it) as a means of being able to travel through space, to some specific point in space. Then when we get to that point in space, we manipulate mass in other ways (we hold meetings, we swim in the ocean, we ski down a snowy hill....etc). In this mode of travel, we know that we are "slaves to time". But we do know one thing....even though we are slaves to time, we know we are moving from past to future. We are moving ahead in time as we progress through space.

The following is nothing more than a "wake up call" reminder to yourself, about something you already know: You have traveled through MASS and TIME, just like the conscious you has traveled through SPACE. You know what it is like. The deeper you. The you beyond (____fill_in_your_name_here______), a conscious human entity.

The question for all of us humans is: Are we now ready to become cognizant, and aware, of those levels of ourselves that HAVE been traveling through MASS and TIME....all over the metaverse? Could it be that this is what the Timewave and 2012 might be about????? A new awakening.

Kind Regards,
RainmanTime
 
RM,

Waiting in anticipation for me to surface? You know there are several ways to catch a Cat!

Trouble is though, I cant decide weather you have a devious inclination in search of knowledge for yourself or to gain recognition from piers? You already have some key suspicions about how TT will work, but I guarantee you still have not spent enough time fishing / thinking. You like to throw ideas around (but you already know the answers) just to see how others will respond in hopes that you might be able to think about something that perhaps you had not previously considered?

Either way the knowledge you are looking for can only be obtained for the pure at heart!

What is the connection between, frequency, vibration, sounds, light, and mass? You are correct in thinking that our bodies MUST and WILL change if we wish to travel through time. Yes, the speed of sound through air is about 340 meters per second. (The speed of sound in water is about 4 times faster than this). The speed of light in air is about 300 million meters per second.

Well perhaps not in the physical, but through the senses. Light has a profound effect on the senses; it can slow the growth down in plants and in preserving body organs used in transplants among other things...perceived consciousness...
 
Greetings, Cat!

Trouble is though, I cant decide weather you have a devious inclination in search of knowledge for yourself or to gain recognition from piers?
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I assure you I am seeking no recognition at all from inanimate objects. I prefer fishing off them instead!


Seriously though, I don't seek recognition. Rather, I am seeking to stimulate the creative thoughts of others, where possible. If there is one thing my 40 years on this scrap of dirt has taught me, it is that the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. That means that a society can build knowledge, and reach the "a ha" state, faster when thoughts and ideas are shared. Ever had that coincidence where, just by chatting with a friend about something you find fascinating, you each exchange some thoughts that help one another fill-in some gaps on the way to "a ha"? I'm onboard with Jung and his concept of Synchronicity! /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif

but I guarantee you still have not spent enough time fishing / thinking.
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Well I certainly agree with that. But now I can't figure if you are chastising me, baiting me, or actually leading me towards that big school of plump rainbow trout!


You like to throw ideas around (but you already know the answers) just to see how others will respond in hopes that you might be able to think about something that perhaps you had not previously considered?
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Forgive me if you find this annoying. It is a byproduct of some years of teaching freshman students the "art" of engineering. I've found it extremely effective for comprehension when you walk a student down the path just far enough that they start running to the destination on their own cognitive energy. Not only does it solidify comprehension in them, make them excited about what they have learned, but I often find that they will discover something at the destination that I had never considered... And so student becomes teacher. I've been quite blessed to have students graduate, go on to their own aerospace adventures, and then re-establish contact with me to teach me even more. A warm, tasty plate of Karma for anyone?? /ttiforum/images/graemlins/yum.gif

Either way the knowledge you are looking for can only be obtained for the pure at heart!
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Amen. And who is to judge the purity of said heart? Every day that I see a baby smile and giggle at their interaction with the world.... every day that the incessant wagging of my dog's tail raises my vibration level... every day I seek reparation from someone I love with a heartful "I'm sorry"... these are the days when I feel my own self-purification at work.

How about you? Share of yourself, Cat. You already know the joy it can bring! I've got to go tend to my split pea soup (for the soul?) now...

Kind Regards,
RainmanTime
 
Oh yeah...forgot about:

What is the connection between, frequency, vibration, sounds, light, and mass?
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Dare I answer this with a 4 letter word? Love. Or in a more technical assessment, the choice between harmonious vibrations and disharmonious ones. Attraction vs. repulsion. Yin & Yang?

You are correct in thinking that our bodies MUST and WILL change if we wish to travel through time. Yes, the speed of sound through air is about 340 meters per second. (The speed of sound in water is about 4 times faster than this). The speed of light in air is about 300 million meters per second.
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Great lead-in, CAT...good sharing! :D Note how speed of sound increases when going from a less-dense fluid (air) to a more dense fluid (water). If air and water, as fluids, are really just two different forms of a much more complex SUPERfluid...and that superfluid has an even more dense energy matrix...then would light possibly travel through this superfluid at a faster speed than it does through air?

Hmmmmmm..... sounds reasonable to me. Kind Regards,
RainmanTime
 
About light travelling faster through the superfluid, I don't think it will. Light, unlike sound, does not travel well in fluids. The sea acts as a huge filter, slowly removing each part of the spectrum until nothing remains. Granted, the sea is not often crystal clear but it's worth thinking about.

Personally I think that the superfluid that is space has a loose molecular bond and is on the border between a liquid and a gas.

The Doctor
 
About light travelling faster through the superfluid, I don't think it will. Light, unlike sound, does not travel well in fluids.
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Well, yes, that could be true. But this also pre-supposes that the superfluid has the same energetic characteristics of "normal" fluids. This might not be a valid supposition. If the "empty" space is the superfluid, and it exists all around us but cannot be characterized by our senses, it is difficult to characterize how energy might flow thru it.

And to remind us that the possibility of a superfluid being what all Mass, Space, and Time is composed of, we recall recent scientific measurements from NASA WMAP probe: These measurements tell us that ordinary matter makes up only 6% of total universal energy. The remaining 94% is divided between "dark matter" and "dark energy", with DE being somewhere in the 70-80% of total energy...I don't recall the precise numbers. Thus, if we eliminate ordinary matter and dark matter, and the bulk of the energy that is left is dark energy......hmmmm....could it be all around us, and we cannot even sense it?

More on this in a reply to James in another thread. Kind Regards,
RainmanTime
 
RM, why are you so adamant about specifying that you worked for Lockheed? Do you need to broadcast it to the readers of the forum to elevate your status?

Because at this point I'm wondering if the true reason you go fishing so much is for your ego to hear someone say, "Oh that's a big one"!


Well, ok... In the attempt to teach and share a new science perspective, how about religion. Science and Religion are one in the same, or rather science being taught in the form of a religion.

In religious depths the Kabalah has splendidly offered this knowledge to us is the diagram of the "Tree of Knowledge" and its 22 paths. You see this is just not a "Tree" this is really a matching diagram of the brains cranial nervous system as the Kabalah names each level and path of the Tree of Knowledge where things can be found to correlate, it's in the same manner that information from the cranial nerves flows into these areas of the brain. Its attempt is to convey states of consciousness.

cranialn.gif


tree2.gif


http:www.projectmind.org/treeoflife.html

Doc and RM, what I have in mind about the states of light and fluids, how are we not to consider that a sentient hyper light universe doesnt exist. Let say some intelligent life form has the ability and to slow down the FM (frequency modulations). According to Einsteins law of relativity E=MC² (energy is equal to mass times the speed of light), That which vibrates faster than the speed of light is energy. That which vibrates slower than the speed of light is mass. The difference between energy and mass is defined by the speed of light. And so in this way can an entity slow the FM to such an extent that it changes essence from light to mass.

The barrier separating these dimensional realms is the speed of light. Our corporeal world is defined as being limited to those things that manifest mass and that vibrate at a speed slower than the speed of light. According to its speed is its definition. Anything vibrating slower than light is corporeal and included within the boundaries of space time. This means that anything moving faster than the speed of light is non corporeal.

Now consider that our bodies are composed of matter, which exists in four-dimensional space- time. In other words, our bodies are formed of sub atomic particles, which vibrate slower than the speed of light.

A shift of essence from hyper light to sub light speed should not be a foreign concept to us. Heat equals speed of movement. In other words, the more a molecular structure of a thing vibrates the hotter that mass becomes. The opposite is also true, the slower something goes, the colder it becomes. The best example of this we all know, the compound H2O (two atoms of hydrogen and one atom of oxygen). This element we all know as water. When water is in between the temperature 32 to 212 degrees Fahrenheit it exists in a liquid state. Beneath 32 degrees Fahrenheit and the molecular structure of water slows down to become solid ice. Higher in temperature than 212 degrees Fahrenheit and liquid water turns into a gas stream. Eventually steam can be heated until it becomes plasma, a type of matter which isn't simply gas, but isn't yet pure energy.

As water can change its property from a solid to a liquid to a gas to plasma, what would happen if we sped up the hydrogen and oxygen atoms to the speed of light? Obviously the heat would be tremendous, yet what form would this molecule take?

RM, I bet your split pea soup went good with the super bowl! Great game hu?
 
Hi CAT:

RM, why are you so adamant about specifying that you worked for Lockheed? Do you need to broadcast it to the readers of the forum to elevate your status?
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Did I broadcast this? I don't think I did. In any event, you guessed wrong. I'll give you two more guesses to figure out which big aerospace company I really do work for! /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif I share of who I am and what I know. I share freely. This is all I have. So if you are offended by this, I apologize. Perhaps I should try to be more subdued, like you....but then I wouldn't be me! I wonder for what reason you might wish to change me?

Because at this point I'm wondering if the true reason you go fishing so much is for your ego to hear someone say, "Oh that's a big one"!
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You are certainly free to judge my "character flaws" (if that is what they are) as you see fit. But is it so hard for you to believe that I just might be honest when I say my sharing is to inspire others to find their very own "big one"? Seriously....If I wanted to stoke my ego, would I have chosen the business I did? Hardly. If that were my goal, perhaps I would seek to sing and dance with a pop superstar and bare her breast for millions to see..?? Or maybe run for president and perform a rip-roaring rant that is capped-off with a hair-raising screech? :D Do you bring these things up because you are wishing that I would judge your own sharings and their motivations?

Your sharing on the Tree Of Life is much appreciated, and not surprisingly, is also in consonance with my own research, soul searching, and observations of our reality. And in reading some of your past posts, it is clear we share more in our philosophies than the areas we might differ. You do know what this means as to our possible relationships to one another, right? (Speaking outside the realm of matter-energy-space-time). The diagram on the brain was a new one for me... I always intuited the Tree would overlay the brain, but now you have filled-in the gap! THANKS! (See, this is how I perceive the universe to work when it comes to sharing.)

Obviously the heat would be tremendous, yet what form would this molecule take?
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Perhaps....light? Or some other similar form of ethereal energy.


RM, I bet your split pea soup went good with the super bowl! Great game hu?
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Soup was good, but the hit of the party was the BBQ'ed kielbasa that another guest brought. YUM/AUM!
And yes, the game was great! I'm glad the Pats finally pulled it out.

Kind Regards,
RainmanTime
 
As a student, I recognized RT's manner of communication right off. My favorite subjects are taught by people who express his same form. I've learned not to be threatened by letting myself see such as a 'big ego'. I see people like RT as spreading excitement and interest based on there own, not to mention the knowledge that we can learn from or not depending on how we choose to file the information given. Since we are talking about energy here, I thought it would be good to bring this up. Though speculatively conceptual, but following logical patterns, what RT says IS stimulating to my own thoughts and I like the fact that he leaves me room to take what is said and come to my own conclusions (which usually give rise to more indept questioning, more complex concepts and a stronger desire to learn). That's forward progress in my opinion.
 
About the company you are affiliated with, I wont say! But I had a laugh when you denied that you dont recall mentioning Lockheed.

It seems Jamie T's recent "Delta Labs" thread had been deleted. Hmmm? Well anyways I'm pretty sure you posted something along the lines of: Falling behind in reading the posts because you were gone for the weekend at Lockheed helping out with trying to get us to the Moon and Mars. Savvy this Cat never forgets! /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif

On the other hand men are notorious for forgetting! Short-term memory maybe? I think it's a defense and denial mechanism.


Sorry, I'm not trying to change you in any way (as you mention above). What I am doing is merely making you aware of the obvious. I really do like you the way you are! You are quit the feisty character! Very fast moving and hyper individual always on the go...

Yes, Merkabah (light vehicle). Do you know how to access yours?

There is hidden speculation of 2 types of vehicles. One is the physical one that some more technologically advanced beings use to generate the fields necessary to travel thru the dimensions. However, they are only able to traverse the "LOWER" dimensions. They are not capable of generating fields of "high" enough frequency to pass thru to the higher dimnsions (well they could with their minds, just not with their vehicles). They can generate the power, but not the frequency. To generate these requires a "different" kind of generator. A biological one. The higher, finer energies of thought and emotion are the ones that must be used to activate/generate the "Light Vehicle". In the physical world of "matter", a lot of power is needed to generate the fields. It is hard to move the dense particles of matter to the point needed to make the fields strong enough to pass thru the dimensional barriers. It takes much less energy to move the finer, less dense particles of etheric matter. So our bodies/minds are able to generate this power. Acting as a capacitor and transformer, drawing the energy from the universe itself, changing and stepping up the frequency, then generating the fields around us, which builds the Light Vehicle! The principle is much the same as science uses when generating a magnetic bottle to contain plasma that is hotter than the sun!

All speculation really, dont take my word for it.
 
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