Please help me...

Please present the evidence. I have read everything I could possibly find and have not seen ANY CONCLUSIVE evidence. Did I miss a confession?
 
NOTHING is inevitable
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- Just to be a nit-picking [censored]... one thing is inevitable: death.


-jewstinian
 
Please present the evidence. I have read everything I could possibly find and have not seen ANY CONCLUSIVE evidence. Did I miss a confession?
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- First, see lildrgn's post above, he has many very good points. Second, if you are the evidence type, show me evidence that Titor isn't a fraud, then we'll talk.

-jewstinian
 
Although he did come along before the 9/11 terrorism, and before Bush Jr., if he was from the future he may have already prevented some things from his supposed worldline from happening. Given how rare CJD is there is a relatively large amount of research being done on it, and its causes are close to being nailed down. As far as civil war goes I see it as dependant on the next election. There were a LOT of demonstrations when John was posting in 2000-1, and if things are any uglier next time they could turn violent, especially if Bush is re-elected. He has relyed on the nation's stupidity, ignorance, and blind faith to get away with 9/11 (he WAS responsible http://www.infowars.com ) and attacking Iraq without legal justification by false pretense (WMD never found). Not only could his re-election cause a serious problem, but the quantity of people trying to wake up the world to his atrocities could cause WWIII sooner than in John's worldline. Hopefully people wake up and elect a president who is also humanitarian.
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That was your rebutle?
Ok, follow me here, because you defeated your own arguement in your first sentence.
"if he was from the future he may have already prevented some things from his supposed worldline from happening"
But as every one has stated several times in other posts, and according to the theory behind the multiple realities theory (presented by Hawking), then he can not be changing ANYTHING in his "worldline". How can you prevent something in a different reality with out living that entire reality?

I have to finish this later, but... really, think.
 
He provided no proof, just reasons for doubt. I am not talking about doubt. John said enough, in my opinion, to cancel out that doubt. Again, he posted before 9/11, and there are a number of things that came to be just as he said (physics discoveries aside)

I am not going to get into an infantile discussion such as prove that God does not exist which you are baiting me to do. NO ONE can PROVE that he was a time traveler, but if he was NOT then SOMEONE should have been able to prove that he was a fraud. I have not seen it done yet. Doubt is NOT proof.

Why, after 2 1/2 years, hasn't anyone identified what those pictures (his supposed time machine)were of? It looked like something that was manufactured, not slapped together. Any serious doubts raised about his understanding of the physics that made it work? Did he say ANYTHING that proved that he made ANYTHING up? Could you prove him a liar in a court of law?
 
Why, after 2 1/2 years, hasn't anyone identified what those pictures (his supposed time machine)were of? It looked like something that was manufactured, not slapped together. Any serious doubts raised about his understanding of the physics that made it work? Did he say ANYTHING that proved that he made ANYTHING up? Could you prove him a liar in a court of law?
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- Why hasn't anyone disproven him? Mainly because only a handfull of people bought into his bullcrap. If he was more popular, then by word of mouth, it would reach someone who has the capibility to solve such a mystery. Alas, only a bunch of teens with nothing better to do than chat about time travel (I'm guilty as well,) know about this John Titor character. Could I prove him a liar in a court of law? You're trying to set up a straw-man arguement by asking that question; of course no one can prove him a liar (yet,) but no one can prove that he's telling the truth either. We can only speculate, and use reasoning and logic to form sound opinions. Also, looks can be deceiving... just because something looks a certain way, does not mean it is that way. That, and with photo editing software (Adobe Photoshop is a powerful program,) any adept user can manipulate photos and make them look breathtakingly real. These days photographs don't carry as much weight in court as they used to because of that fact - why should a judge believe a photograph when someone could have easily edited it?

-jewstinian
 
I was not saying the photos were proof, I was saying that that would be an avenue to prove his deciet. Again, he can NOT be proven to be a real time traveler. I will not even attempt it. But if he isn't, there's been plenty of time for someone to provide evidence. He DID post over a hundred pages of messages!
 
Why hasn't anyone disproven him? Mainly because only a handfull of people bought into his bullcrap. If he was more popular, then by word of mouth, it would reach someone who has the capibility to solve such a mystery.
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First, the reason why no one has disproven him is because he did a very good job of covering himself up. In fact, one of the best job's I've ever seen on the internet (usually someone leave's something behind). As far as his story not being popular, Do a google search for John Titor, you'll find a lot. It's populating everywhere I've been forum wise. Mallmonkeys.com, primetimecentral.com, etc. Only a FEW people believe him? Let me tell you something, I did an expiriment here the other day and posed as John Titor. More people believed I was fake then the original crowd, yet there was A LOT of PMs from people believing I was John Titor. Then, there's the long term user's who have fought for so long to prove Titor is a hoax, and ended up PMing me (some posted on the boards). There was people who came to these forums for the first time, just to PM me thinking I was John Titor. People are curious. A lot of people want to believe. (In fact, I just got yet another PM today on that screen name from someone who STILL believes im titor, after the fact i got caught). The point? More the a handfull of people believed him, especially if they believed me less then they believed him.

Alas, only a bunch of teens with nothing better to do than chat about time travel
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Not everyone here is teen's. In fact, a lot of the user's that have made themselve's a name here aren't teen's. I learned that before I even posted here.

why should a judge believe a photograph when someone could have easily edited it?
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because the people here like to prove thing's, they dont like to just assume. To think, it's the only evidence on the internet that could prove him real OR fake. The only evidence your side of the arguement has was my expirement on how easy it would be to pull people into believing your a time travelor. Why should we believe people who come here just to say that Titor is a hoax, but has no way of backing it up? That's how i first came here, and im one of the few who stayed around long enough to realize how stupid it was of me to just TELL THEM he's a hoax.

The fact of the matter is, the people here want evidence on EVERYTHING. Rare amongst forums, most people just assume something's fake or real. On this forum, people's mind's are actually forced to think. Oh, and as far as it getting to someone who can crack the case of Titor, myself and other's have been working on it for awhile. So it has gotten to a group of people who can crack it. In fact, that's what most of the people on this forum are doing, trying to see if they can find evidence to prove him true or false.
 
John said enough, in my opinion, to cancel out that doubt
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so did Nostradamus.
Being vague has advantages.
Predicting large events is not very difficult as I said, especially if play on current fears and emotional states of people.
Seriously Titor took some very good Psych classes, but thats about it.

Oh, and that "time machine" box..
It looks very close to a Tactical nuke, with a few things added on. If I could find a cleaner image, I could probably prove it was photochopped.
Amazing how the image is distorted isnt it? Kinda... CONVINEINT!
 
As far as I'm concerned, even if John was really from 2036, it would be unlikely that things would unfold for us as they did for him. HOWEVER, notice the fiasco that the 2000 elections caused, the controversy over 9/11 (http://www.infowars.com/tyranny.htm for starters, there are many others trying to expose what really happened) that spawned the huge increase in military spending and the "Patriot" Act which gives the government the right to forego warrents and to detain people indefinately without charges. I will not see us progressing toward and actual civil war until I see a worse situation after the 2004 elections (which I expect if Bush is re-elected), and WACO type events becoming common place (which is most certainly foreseeable if Wesley Clark is elected who was instrumental in the WACO incident).

It really doesn't matter if John was a fake or not. He made a LOT of sense.
 
Only a FEW people believe him?...More the a handfull of people believed him...yet there was A LOT of PMs from people believing I was John Titor
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- Can you do me a favor? Go ahead and add up all those people who believe and report 'em back to me. A few hundred, even a thousand or two is not A LOT. A few hundred thousand is a lot. A million or two is A LOT. There are roughly 30 million internet users today (that is a very rough estimate by the way.) If you are saying that a few hundred or thousand is a lot, then my friend you are sadly mistaken... 500-1,000 out of 30,000,000 is nothing; that is why I said only a handful of people believe or believed him.

Not everyone here is teen's. In fact, a lot of the user's that have made themselve's a name here aren't teen's. I learned that before I even posted here.
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- Bad wording on my part. I just used teens as an analogy, even though that analogy wasn't the best one I could have used in the situation.

because the people here like to prove thing's, they dont like to just assume
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- Assuming and speculating are two different things. By asking the question, "How do you know if the photo's weren't altered?" was not by any means me assuming that the photo's are altered; rather me speculating on a shady subject.

To think, it's the only evidence on the internet that could prove him real OR fake
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- Do you not find it odd that the only evidence for or against Titor are photographs? No movie clips, no audio clips... nothing (as far as I know anyway, do JT movie/audio clips exist?) Look at UFO's and Bigfoot: why do so many people belive in these two things? because there is some believable evidence, not only in photo's, but in movies, audios, and probably a list of other things. That, and the fact that so many people around the world have reported sighting them, although thats another subject, but I think you see my point. The only thing we have to prove or disprove Titor is a stinking photo? Come on, if you want some photos of time machines, give me a few weeks and I'll slap together a few phoney photo's (sense the sarcasm, please.)

Why should we believe people who come here just to say that Titor is a hoax, but has no way of backing it up? That's how i first came here, and im one of the few who stayed around long enough to realize how stupid it was of me to just TELL THEM he's a hoax.
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- Look, there is no way to 100% prove or disprove Titor as of yet. Everyone has their opinions, mine is that he is bogus. Why is it stupid to tell someone Titor is a hoax? You need to see both sides of the story. What you're basically telling me to do is to not question Titor... you're calling me stupid because I'm questioning something? Why?
In a murder case, they question, they speculate; they don't just say, "Welp, that sucks, the guy is dead huh? Okay, it's best not to question anything, he's obviously killed himself." They investigate and look into things. Granted, I'm not performing an extensive investigation, but you get what I'm trying to say.

Oh, and as far as it getting to someone who can crack the case of Titor, myself and other's have been working on it for awhile. So it has gotten to a group of people who can crack it. In fact, that's what most of the people on this forum are doing, trying to see if they can find evidence to prove him true or false.
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- That's fine, but I think you missed the point I was trying to make. All I was trying to say is that with more popular mysteries (such as UFO's) there are interested parties that have large amounts of recources at their disposal; the T-Files however have a small community to solve its mystery. I'm not doubting that you guys will crack the case, but you would think that if Titor was legit, that more people would be interested, and word would get around to a larger populas, and eventually to those who have all those recources. But maybe I shouldn't assume, huh.

-jewstinian
 
I think that there are three distinct camps that we could all belong to.

1) JT is/was a hoax

The photo's where faked, the story was made-up, and the author a tremendously clever, and well informed person. There is no 'evidence' that i have found that proves this theory, there is nothing in his writing that 'gave him away'. If you subscribe to this camp, then your disbeleif is probably based on the lack of hard evidence.

2) JT is/was a time traveller.

So he was cautious about the information that he gave - wouldn't you be? He did not want to be too specific about anything, for fear of giving people anything that would change their lives. The compellingness (is that a word) of the story, the pictures, and the anecdotes all felt 'beleiveable'. We saw the pictures, we had a chance to ask questions, and mostly we got the same answers.

3) Unsure.

This is possibly the biggest camp, with a lack of hard evidence to support / destroy the story, this is the easiet camp to join, there is a chance that this was an amazingly intricate hoax, but also there is a chance that this is true.

Whichever camp you belong to, whichever side you agree with, unless you are extremely good at presenting your arguement without the need to slippling into personal insults, I would suggest that you try not to say that something is 'obviously fake' if that is just what you beleive, and have no evidence to back it up.
 
Well put. I think the main point is that it doesn't matter whether he was or wasn't, but that he presented a very plausable scenario for the future. I worry that exposure of the U.S. government's plan for global domination and the poor foreign relations such as the non-U.N. backed war on Iraq, that a nuclear war will come sooner. I do believe that is rather independent from civil unrest which also *seems* inevitable given the course we've been on.
 
Thanks !

I think that there are many possibilities. I live in the US, but i am a european, many of the things that I see regarding the US's treatment of the world, and the somewhat 'gung-ho' approach to foreign policy could lead to conflift. The reduction in civil liberties have been discussed endlessly on other fora, and although they are worrying to a sub-section of society, they are nowhere near as dramatic as many people would have us believe, or at least thats my viewpoint. As a law abiding citizen, I feel I have nothing to worry about !

What has always worried me is the US's foreign policy approach, and the scary way that they are able to get away with the invasion of other countries with little or no come-back. I worry that they will one day take on a country that is way stronger than the intelligence service realizes, and some for of escalated conflit will take place. Maybe Korea will be the catalyst, maybe some other nation that the US public is only dimly aware of ?

The potential for the human race to anihilate its self is massive, add in to the mix different (ie none-western) religions, and politics, and the whole world is a potential target for the American people.

The patriot act is rather scary to many citizens, but no worse than many other anti-terrorism acts that have been passed in other countries. For instance an Irish accent in the UK was enough for you to be detained as a possible IRA member at the height of that conflict.

At the moment, I feel that we have a lot to fear, but I do not see a civil war on the horizon, what I think is more likely is worldwide unrest at the US's foreign policy.
 
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