John Titor Graphic Novel

no, i still disagree rainman.

The foolishness of this argument is that, once you start making trades for 1 million, 5 million, etc, and you are just some guy off teh street, a LOT of people will take notice. the SEC too. if the goal were to get rich quick, the stock market isn't the way a tter would do it. i guess supposing you could grab 10,000 shares of microsoft when they were first released then go forward in time to sell them would be smarter.

if the point is that we have no laws to encompass such thievery the reason is that it has never happened to the publics knowledge. If it were then there would be laws made no doubt. i for one wouldn't care so much about how much a time traveler stole, whether or not we have laws about it, but the fact that he is a time traveler.

thus i fail to see the point of darby's argument. I think thats what we want, is to have proof of a time traveler.
 
Suppose that as proof of time travelling, the suspect T.T. sent some of us a P.M. of stocks that were going to perform quite well. We purchase those stocks and they do indeed perform well and we make a tidy profit.

Would this be considered insider trading? Would we be considered in violation of SEC rules?
And what current laws exist that would hold the T.T. accountable?

It seems to me that if one had a team of time travelers working different angles, as a whole they could produce quite a large sum of cash fairly quickly. If one T.T. is making money on specific trades, the others could be doing the same with others. Perhaps, they may even work with a citizen of that time period to mask their presence.

Who knows if those that became extremely wealthy in the past, have been aided by those with knowledge of the future?

I understand what Darby is getting at...an enactment of law that prohibits the actions of a T.T. to interact with any financial systems such as the stock market. Perhaps G.M. was never supposed to be as massive as it has become. If a T.T. or team invested in G.M. and then provided the technology to G.M. to gain strength in the automotive industry...should there be laws on the books if this ever turns out to be so?
 
I think thats what we want, is to have proof of a time traveler.
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Perhaps that is what you want, but that is certainly not why I hang out here. For the most part I am interested in talking and sharing with others who are honestly interested in achieving time travel. Beyond this I am also interested in discussing the impacts that this advancement would have on our current instantiation of society.

I think you'd have to admit, that if time travel ever did become a reality (and was proven to even your satisfaction) that many things about how our society works would have to be re-thought. That is why I think Darby poses an interesting question.

RMT
 
I really like where the direction this thread is taking. /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Hello! Come on people. Can't we do any better than this!
 
Hello! Come on people. Can't we do any better than this!
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Be my guest. I don't believe anyone is hindering you from taking it where you want to. But if you want to talk about Yellowstone blowing up, then I might have the same comment that you just expressed. /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif

RMT
 
"Insider information" is information gathered from a person "inside" the company that is not available to all potential traders.
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If that is the legal definition of "insider information" all they need to do to make it cover the time travelling issue is to change it to:

"Insider information" is information gathered about the company that is not available to all potential traders at the time
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I don't believe anyone is hindering you from taking it where you want to.
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OK. What do you think of Titor, or any other time traveler, driving around without auto insurance? What if he got into a wreck? I think its outrageous.

Someone alert the authorities. /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
OK. What do you think of Titor, or any other time traveler, driving around without auto insurance? What if he got into a wreck? I think its outrageous.
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I can see why you would think as such. With prior knowledge of automobile accidents that are yet to occur, a TT'er could show up at the time and place of an eventual accident, and ensure their actions are such that they avoid all blame... even if they were to blame in the original timeline.

Talk about your paradox! A TT'er could literally bankrupt any insurance company s/he wishes to just by modifying said timeline.

/ttiforum/images/graemlins/devil.gif RMT
 
Rainman,

You got my point. When I first came into posting on time travel forums the first thread that I was involved with was here on a thread started by (as I recall) Javier Cortez regarding the ethics of time travel.

It does pose some problems, ethically, if non-linear travel through time is possible. Ren alluded to simple theft to make the money and that's also true. Investing in the financial markets has always been a subject of discussion WRT time travel. If the market results are known by even a few people prior to the opening then the market quickly collapses if the TT acts on the information.

So you're correct. If we ignore the holes in Chad's story and for the sake of argument asume that it was true we have a problem. As the laws currently stand it doesn't appear that a clear cut case could be made to prosecute someone for this particular brand of market manipulation.

I suppose that a prosecutor could get very creative and make a case, but it would be an indirect approach. As I said relative to casinos, this isn't a problem. They can ban a gambler that they think is cheating or taking advantage of a flaw in the system...and they don't need to explain.
 
Ren,

Your points are still well taken. In the real world of the markets you might have the volume but not the movement to pull off the scenario that Chad posed if you go to the major listed stock markets. On the Pink Sheets you might have the movement but you don't have the volume.

I do think that a time traveler could pull it off without grabbing too much in the way of notice. Instead of making the investments post-1937 after the Paper Act/1937 Act were passed s/he could make the investments pre-1929 and let them ride. Or s/he could make the 126 trades at many different times to hide the paper trail.

In Chad's story the TT got greedy, failed to realize the true power of "time" and tried to get it all at once.
 
What about a time traveler paying income taxes? If they time traveled to the past, worked and made money, and then time traveled back, how do they pay taxes on the income they earned in the past?

These are very serious questions we must address before we go time travel willy-nilly to and fro. /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
And what about a time traveler who spends a year or two in the past. Do they then get to collect social security based on the age in the present or their age from the present plus the time they spent in the past?

More important questions like these coming. /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
Is this what they are talking about, super-worm?

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759,1788961,00.asp

Security Watch: Achtung! Eine Worm Outbreak!
Top Threat:Sober.M

Executive Summary
Name: Win32.Sober.M (Computer Associates)
Affects:Windows 2000, Windows 95, Windows 98, Windows Me, Windows NT, Windows Server 2003, Windows XP Also known as W32.Sober.N@mm (Symantec), W32/Sober.o@MM (McAfee), W32/Sober-M (Sophos), WORM_SOBER.N (Trend Micro):
What it does: Sober.M is a classic mass-mailing worm that sends itself to addresses it harvests off the infected computer using its own SMTP engine. It installs itself to load at boot.

Upon running the program copies a file named services.txt into the %temp% folder and opens it with Notepad. The file contains gibberish but could confuse and distract the user. In the meantime,it copies itself to the %Windows%\Config\system directory as "services.exe", and a zipped BASE64 encoded copy of itself in the same directory as "zipped.wrm".

Sober.M then installs the following registry keys to load the program at boot time:

HKLM\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Run\SystemCheck = "%Windows%\Config\system\services.exe"
HKCU\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Run\_SystemCheck = "%Windows%\Config\system\services.exe"

The program also attempts to terminate the process named mrt.exe, the name of the Microsoft Malicious Software Removal Tool. It may drop one or more files in the %Windows%\Config\system and %System% folders.

The e-mail propagation routine is typical of mail worms, with the worm searching through files on the system for e-mail addresses to send to, avoiding addresses with certain strings and using stock subject lines and message bodies. The addresses used are stored in "%Windows%\Config\system\maddys.xyz". If the recipient address ends in "de", "ch", "at" or "li", or it contains "gmx" the recipient gets the German version of the worm. The English subject line is "I've_got your EMail on my_account!" and the German one is "FwD: Ich bin's nochmal".

The message attachment is zipped, named your_text.zip or Private-Texte.zip, and contains a file named "mail.document.Datex-packed.exe". The body of the message claims that the file contains private e-mails of theirs that were distributed on the Internet. The ZIP files are 73,699 bytes and the .exe file is 73,541-byte large.

How to avoid it: Install and run antivirus software and keep it up to date. Do not open attachments from strangers and never launch programs unless you know exactly what they are.

How to remove it: Updated antivirus software can remove this worm. To remove it manually, first terminate the malware process in the Windows Task Manager (press Ctrl-Alt-Del and press Task Manager). On the Processes tab right-click on services.exe and select End Process. Then delete the registry keys and files described above that were created by the worm.
 
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