Information Subsumes Physical Energy
- Thread starter RainmanTime
- Start date
RainmanTime
Super Moderator
Details of Events Support This Theory - Sago Mine
Dateline 1/4/2006, West Virginia mining tragedy and how it reflects how Information Subsumes Physical Energy.
Take a good look at the reaction today to the initial MIS-information about how many miners died and how many survived. We can easily see how the power of information in two forms (inconclusive and conclusive) affects the Energy of the people directly affected. The ONLY variable in how this scenario played out was INFORMATION about the status of the 13 miners. Notice how the CHANGE in this information (no change in any actual physical situation or the Energy describing it) had large effects on how people reacted, and thus, expended their Energy. Let's review some further facts and implications about my theory that are now being brought to light as a result of how this tragedy played out:
1) Information, in and of itself, is not "right" or "wrong". It simply IS. How that information relates to other pieces of information that describe our perceived reality is what allows us to ascertain the veracity of any single piece of information. (IOW, any single piece of information can only be branded "right or wrong" with respect to some other information.)
2) Information exists INDEPENDENT OF TIME. The information that described the facts that 12 miners had died (rather than the initial reports of 12 miners having survived) was "there" in its place in Space (s^3) all along. The configuration of that Space (the mine) and the Mass around it were each, individually changing as the mine was prospected. However, when the combination of Mass and Space are taken together, the Information describing the Energy of that Mass and Space was always there... there was always the potential for this Information to be made manifest in our physical domain.
3) Note that as you move further away from the specific Mass and Space that defines a specific piece of Information, the greater the possibility for that Information to be distorted (i.e. reported incorrectly). This is shown quite dramatically in this case: The rescuers reached the area of Mass and Space where the Information existed. They, the rescuers, were able to ascertain that Information with respect to their other perceptions. They knew all along that it was 12 dead and 1 alive. Yet as the Information was transmitted away from that area of Mass and Space, it got distorted. And then initially, it was the distorted Information that was communicated to other people, and eventually to the media.
4) In this tragedy, we can clearly see and reinforce the importance of having MULTIPLE, INDEPENDENT sources that sense/perceive that Information and transmit it to others for evaluation. This is well known in the community of complex system developers such as myself. Multiple, independent, redundant systems that operate in parallel (i.e. triplex redundant) allow us to ascertain the veracity and validity of any single "thread" of Information.
5) Now think a bit more deeply about how Information that has been distorted from its source can have such a drastic effect on how you choose to expend your Energy. This is the crux of what I am getting at with regard to such "news sources" as prisonplanet.com. If you "buy into" a single source of Information (one that clearly will distort raw information by injecting a bias, agenda, or personal opinion with inflammatory statements) then YOU ARE PERMITTING YOURSELF TO HAVE YOUR ENERGY EXPENDITURES CONTROLLED BY THAT SINGLE SOURCE.
We live in an age where the "powers that be" (and this includes free governments as well as those who would impose fascist regiemes, if they could) know that Information Subsumes Physical Energy. Wars are becoming more about Information than they are about Energy. We should ALL understand this, and understand that it is not a good idea to make a choice to expend Energy based on a single source of Information. Furthermore, we should all be VERY wary of item #3 listed above. We need to understand that the further some reported item of Information travels from its originating source in Mass and Space, the greater its potential distortion.
My condolences and prayers go out to the families of those who lost members in this mining accident.
RMT
Dateline 1/4/2006, West Virginia mining tragedy and how it reflects how Information Subsumes Physical Energy.
Take a good look at the reaction today to the initial MIS-information about how many miners died and how many survived. We can easily see how the power of information in two forms (inconclusive and conclusive) affects the Energy of the people directly affected. The ONLY variable in how this scenario played out was INFORMATION about the status of the 13 miners. Notice how the CHANGE in this information (no change in any actual physical situation or the Energy describing it) had large effects on how people reacted, and thus, expended their Energy. Let's review some further facts and implications about my theory that are now being brought to light as a result of how this tragedy played out:
1) Information, in and of itself, is not "right" or "wrong". It simply IS. How that information relates to other pieces of information that describe our perceived reality is what allows us to ascertain the veracity of any single piece of information. (IOW, any single piece of information can only be branded "right or wrong" with respect to some other information.)
2) Information exists INDEPENDENT OF TIME. The information that described the facts that 12 miners had died (rather than the initial reports of 12 miners having survived) was "there" in its place in Space (s^3) all along. The configuration of that Space (the mine) and the Mass around it were each, individually changing as the mine was prospected. However, when the combination of Mass and Space are taken together, the Information describing the Energy of that Mass and Space was always there... there was always the potential for this Information to be made manifest in our physical domain.
3) Note that as you move further away from the specific Mass and Space that defines a specific piece of Information, the greater the possibility for that Information to be distorted (i.e. reported incorrectly). This is shown quite dramatically in this case: The rescuers reached the area of Mass and Space where the Information existed. They, the rescuers, were able to ascertain that Information with respect to their other perceptions. They knew all along that it was 12 dead and 1 alive. Yet as the Information was transmitted away from that area of Mass and Space, it got distorted. And then initially, it was the distorted Information that was communicated to other people, and eventually to the media.
4) In this tragedy, we can clearly see and reinforce the importance of having MULTIPLE, INDEPENDENT sources that sense/perceive that Information and transmit it to others for evaluation. This is well known in the community of complex system developers such as myself. Multiple, independent, redundant systems that operate in parallel (i.e. triplex redundant) allow us to ascertain the veracity and validity of any single "thread" of Information.
5) Now think a bit more deeply about how Information that has been distorted from its source can have such a drastic effect on how you choose to expend your Energy. This is the crux of what I am getting at with regard to such "news sources" as prisonplanet.com. If you "buy into" a single source of Information (one that clearly will distort raw information by injecting a bias, agenda, or personal opinion with inflammatory statements) then YOU ARE PERMITTING YOURSELF TO HAVE YOUR ENERGY EXPENDITURES CONTROLLED BY THAT SINGLE SOURCE.
We live in an age where the "powers that be" (and this includes free governments as well as those who would impose fascist regiemes, if they could) know that Information Subsumes Physical Energy. Wars are becoming more about Information than they are about Energy. We should ALL understand this, and understand that it is not a good idea to make a choice to expend Energy based on a single source of Information. Furthermore, we should all be VERY wary of item #3 listed above. We need to understand that the further some reported item of Information travels from its originating source in Mass and Space, the greater its potential distortion.
My condolences and prayers go out to the families of those who lost members in this mining accident.
RMT
Is it accurate to say that energy turns into force, or that energy is converted into force when it comes in contact with matter? What about saying forces come from energy, that without energy no forces exist?
What about the above questions applied to information? Is information converted into energy when it comes in contact with [i dont know the word that should go here]...
Does energy come from information? Without information no energies exist?
I don't think the above statements are correct, I cant put it into words correctly. Matter and energy are supposed to be interchangable though, so is information interchangable with anything?
RainmanTime
Super Moderator
Hi Newbie,
Now... if we accept these parallels between Energy/Force and Information/Energy, then this could very well lead us to a better understanding of the dimensions above our perceived physical reality. There is no doubt that our mutual, perceived physical reality is based on Force. We as physical beings utilize Force as our means to shape our universe of Massive SpaceTime. But we also know that Energy is a higher-dimensional quantity that directs and controls Force. We also know that the speed of light is the primary "barrier" (I would rather call it a veil, as barrier implies it cannot be crossed) which represents how Energy descends into Force in our physical dimensionality. This makes light very special indeed, for as I state above it is the ONLY means by which we can perceive Energy directly.
So applying the parallel thoughts to the dimension beyond Energy, what does this tell us about Information? First and foremost, just as there is a veil between Force and Energy that we call the speed of light, there must also be a veil between Information and Energy that has fractally self-similar characteristics to the speed of light in our dimension. IOW, if we were able to live and sense within the dimension of Energy directly (which we can if we understand our spiritual makeup) then the only way we would be able to perceive Information directly in this dimension would be through some manner in which the veil between Information and Energy expresses itself. Do you understand that? Are you with me?
So what would we call this veil between Information and Energy? Good question. I think it would be an error to call it "the speed of Information", which might be the first thought one would have. The reason I think this would be an error is that we do not call the speed of light the "speed of Energy". Light is a phenomenon that expresses and makes perceivable the veil between Energy and Force. So there must be an equivalent phenomenon that expresses and makes perceivable (in the domain of Energy) the veil between Information and Energy. Since we, as physical beings, cannot perceive in the domain of Energy it may be difficult to describe this higher-dimensional veil. However, our spiritual "body" does exist and can perceive within the domain of Energy. Therefore, we can look to our spiritual experiences to help us describe the veil between Information and Energy. I would tend to call this expression of the veil between Information and Energy "Wisdom and/or Knowledge". To me, this would make sense because light is based on Energy, and it is my belief that wisdom/knowledge are based on Information.
What do you think, Newbie?
RMT
The way I would state what you are getting at would be: "Energy manifests as Force in the subluminal dimension." IOW, the only way in which we can directly perceive Energy is as light. Outside of light, the only other way we can perceive Energy is indirectly, as an unbalanced Force (as described by Newton's laws). And I believe these descriptions are in complete concert with the laws of physics as we know them.
Applying the same treatment I have given above to this level of physical reality, I would phrase this as: "Information manifests as Energy in the dimension where Energy holds reign."
Now... if we accept these parallels between Energy/Force and Information/Energy, then this could very well lead us to a better understanding of the dimensions above our perceived physical reality. There is no doubt that our mutual, perceived physical reality is based on Force. We as physical beings utilize Force as our means to shape our universe of Massive SpaceTime. But we also know that Energy is a higher-dimensional quantity that directs and controls Force. We also know that the speed of light is the primary "barrier" (I would rather call it a veil, as barrier implies it cannot be crossed) which represents how Energy descends into Force in our physical dimensionality. This makes light very special indeed, for as I state above it is the ONLY means by which we can perceive Energy directly.
So applying the parallel thoughts to the dimension beyond Energy, what does this tell us about Information? First and foremost, just as there is a veil between Force and Energy that we call the speed of light, there must also be a veil between Information and Energy that has fractally self-similar characteristics to the speed of light in our dimension. IOW, if we were able to live and sense within the dimension of Energy directly (which we can if we understand our spiritual makeup) then the only way we would be able to perceive Information directly in this dimension would be through some manner in which the veil between Information and Energy expresses itself. Do you understand that? Are you with me?
So what would we call this veil between Information and Energy? Good question. I think it would be an error to call it "the speed of Information", which might be the first thought one would have. The reason I think this would be an error is that we do not call the speed of light the "speed of Energy". Light is a phenomenon that expresses and makes perceivable the veil between Energy and Force. So there must be an equivalent phenomenon that expresses and makes perceivable (in the domain of Energy) the veil between Information and Energy. Since we, as physical beings, cannot perceive in the domain of Energy it may be difficult to describe this higher-dimensional veil. However, our spiritual "body" does exist and can perceive within the domain of Energy. Therefore, we can look to our spiritual experiences to help us describe the veil between Information and Energy. I would tend to call this expression of the veil between Information and Energy "Wisdom and/or Knowledge". To me, this would make sense because light is based on Energy, and it is my belief that wisdom/knowledge are based on Information.
What do you think, Newbie?
RMT
RainmanTime
Super Moderator
Hello bogz (assumed to be another identify for Newbie!) /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif
1) It is my claim that the "m" in F=ma is not a mere scalar, but rather a vector, and that the three distinct charges inherent to all Mass (e-, n0, p+) are indicative of the orthogonal subdimensions of Mass.
2) It is further my claim that the "m" in E=mc^2 is NOT the same Mass as we use in F=ma. In fact, Einstein himself even admitted as much when he distinguished between "rest mass" and "relativistic mass". However, I take this further by saying that the "m" in E=mc^2 is really MATTER, and it is a rank 2 tensor (1 order higher than a vector) which is a result of a projection of Mass via Time. So MATTER is a metric of what I call a MassTime field, just as the "c^2" is a metric we call MOTION over the SpaceTime field. See the balance that is now inherent to E=mc^2 by doing this?
3) If my theory is true, then this tells us that MATTER (a metric of the MassTime field effect) is what becomes interchangeable with Energy but only when it is accelerated at a specific value of MOTION (a metric of the SpaceTime field effect) that we call the speed of light. With me so far?
4) Now we step-up to my Information equation I=ms^3. Comparing this with Einstein's equation, then yes we would presume that Information is interchangeable with this modified form of Mass, but just as we cannot ignore "c^2" in Einstein's equation we also cannot ignore "s^3" in this equation. Time has now been removed from the picture, and we see that Information is interchangeable with this modified form of Mass as projected within the bounds of some volume, described by s^3.
Did you get that? If so, this is an important concept because it describes a metric which is invariant over Time! All that matters is total Mass and total Space. This is where it might be good to check out the other thread (EXPLAIN yourself RMT!), as I am about to make a link (tenuous though it may be) between time invariant Information and the importance of human Free Will and Choice.
RMT
This is a very good question! And of course, if my goal is to use fractal self-similarity as the basis for my theoretical extension, then there should be a similar interchangeability across the "veil" between Information and Energy. But let's review a bit of what I have put forth in this thread:
1) It is my claim that the "m" in F=ma is not a mere scalar, but rather a vector, and that the three distinct charges inherent to all Mass (e-, n0, p+) are indicative of the orthogonal subdimensions of Mass.
2) It is further my claim that the "m" in E=mc^2 is NOT the same Mass as we use in F=ma. In fact, Einstein himself even admitted as much when he distinguished between "rest mass" and "relativistic mass". However, I take this further by saying that the "m" in E=mc^2 is really MATTER, and it is a rank 2 tensor (1 order higher than a vector) which is a result of a projection of Mass via Time. So MATTER is a metric of what I call a MassTime field, just as the "c^2" is a metric we call MOTION over the SpaceTime field. See the balance that is now inherent to E=mc^2 by doing this?
3) If my theory is true, then this tells us that MATTER (a metric of the MassTime field effect) is what becomes interchangeable with Energy but only when it is accelerated at a specific value of MOTION (a metric of the SpaceTime field effect) that we call the speed of light. With me so far?
4) Now we step-up to my Information equation I=ms^3. Comparing this with Einstein's equation, then yes we would presume that Information is interchangeable with this modified form of Mass, but just as we cannot ignore "c^2" in Einstein's equation we also cannot ignore "s^3" in this equation. Time has now been removed from the picture, and we see that Information is interchangeable with this modified form of Mass as projected within the bounds of some volume, described by s^3.
Did you get that? If so, this is an important concept because it describes a metric which is invariant over Time! All that matters is total Mass and total Space. This is where it might be good to check out the other thread (EXPLAIN yourself RMT!), as I am about to make a link (tenuous though it may be) between time invariant Information and the importance of human Free Will and Choice.
RMT
KerrTexas
Super Moderator
RainmanTime!
Just thought you might enjoy the 'new' image/picture for OvLrdLegion. It actually is supposed to be spherical, but appears oblong on the threads.
Missed everybody, since I have been off-line for a few months. Looks like I have a lot of catching up to do. You all certainly have been busy.
Just thought you might enjoy the 'new' image/picture for OvLrdLegion. It actually is supposed to be spherical, but appears oblong on the threads.
Missed everybody, since I have been off-line for a few months. Looks like I have a lot of catching up to do. You all certainly have been busy.
RainmanTime
Super Moderator
I'm not sure our senses would be able to perceive it at all, and here's why:
1) First of all we need to understand that the conversion of MATTER (what I call a field of MassTime) into Energy (and I assume you are referring to an atomic explosion) is still subject to the dimension of Time (or more specifically SpaceTime). This is inherent in "c".
2) An atomic explosion is the result of a VERY highly non-linear release of energy caused by a chain reaction. In other words, this form of changing matter to energy makes no attempt to control the rate of production. However, a nuclear powerplant does utilize a controlled reaction, hence it doesn't blow up.
3) We must realize that we are not "seeing" energy even in a nuclear explosion. Rather, we are seeing the effects of energy as projected in our 3-D realm of force...what I call Massive SpaceTime.
4) Given that, in the hierarchy I have laid out, Information is at an even higher dimension than Energy, our ability to sense this transformation is even more esoteric. IOW, we would only perceive the indirect effect of how that Information affected Energy beneath it, and then how that Energy affected our Massive SpaceTime domain of physicality.
This is why the "form" that "mass" takes on in my equation for information is unique. I think I need a new name for it, because it is clearly confusing. Mass, as we think about it, only applies to the F=ma equation that describes Force. At the level of Energy we are really talking about Matter (i.e. MassTime field effect). This entity in my equation is something different yet. This is what I am trying to quantify, first mathematically. Once I have a mathematical definition that "seems to work" I can make predictions that should be testable.
RMT
RainmanTime
Super Moderator
Hi bogz,
RMT
Nope. Atomic explosions are a result of the nuclear chain reaction, wherein a neutron is shot into the nucleus of an element like uranium. The reaction produces two more free neutrons which split two more atoms, and so on in a geometric progression. HERE is a neat little animation that shows what is going on. So for the atomic explosion it is not so much about the speed of things coming together as it is about the speed with which the geometric progression expands... 1 atom, then 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64..... If you do not control the rate of this progression you get the mushroom cloud. If you do control the rate of progression, you get a nuclear reactor (Enrico Fermi was the first to control this process).
Again, since this is yet one dimension above energy, I don't think we can even describe this as an explosion. In fact, I am not sure how to describe it at all, or the mechanics of how it would work. But it is my guess that the 3-D "shadow" of this reaction is what we perceive as the universe itself, and its total energy (baryonic matter, dark matter, and dark energy).
RMT
RainmanTime
Super Moderator
Hi again bogz,
I wish to complete the 3x3x3 tensor field equations first, and then the scalar forms will fall-out naturally once the tensor form is verified as correct.
If we consider that Mass is really a 3-D vector quantity just as Space is, then we would represent the Mass vector as M(x,y,z) with components Mx, My, and Mz. These components would correspond to the "orthogonal" elements of Mass that are associated with charge polarity (positive, neutral, negative).
Now, I have also defined Matter as different from Mass in my theory in that I define Matter as being the time-derivative of Mass. At the macroscopic level we typically call this the mass flow rate in fluid dynamics. However, it is my contention (and our investigations into subatomic particles have supported this view) that these particles of Mass are not static with respect to Time. They are always changing....or oscillating, if you will. And in my theory it is Matter, not Mass, that is the "m" term in Einstein's E = mc^2 equation. Now let's draw the analogy betweeen Matter as a tensor and the stress tensor:
For stress, we said its units align with pressure, in that we have Force per unit Area (F/A). Well, in the case of Matter we have Mass per unit Time (M/T). And you might remember that my theory also wishes to treat Time as a 3-D vector as well (T-past, T-present, T-future).
So, just like we had nine elements of the stress tensor matrix, and we designated each element of the matrix with two subscripts, we can do the same thing for Matter. So this would result in what I call:
_____The Matter Tensor Matrix______
{Matter(x-x)___Matter(x-y)___Matter(x-z)}
{Matter(y-x)___Matter(y-y)___Matter(y-z)}
{Matter(z-x)___Matter(z-y)___Matter(z-z)}
In this tensor matrix, the first subscript corresponds to the specific charge polarities of Mass associated with this Matter. The second subscript corresponds to the specific vector component of Time (past, present, future).
Now, if this tensor treatment of Matter "works out" as I move forward, this is going to mean something very speific with respect to the SpaceTime metric (c^2) portion of Einstein's equation. In order for the Matter tensor to multiply properly with "c^2", this means that "c^2" must at least be a 3-D vector, and it could quite possibly be a 3x3 tensor quantity just like Matter. How these two terms multiply together, and how their result (Energy) is measured with respect to dimensionality is dependent upon which indices of the Matter tensor (above) and the SpaceTime vector or tensor are covariant indices vs. contravariant indices. This is a more advanced topic in tensors that I have not dealt with yet in the "Vector & Tensor Fundamentals" thread.
RMT
Yes, that is because this is one of the SCALAR (non-vector/tensor) forms of Relativity. We are simply treating both mass and the speed of light as scalar numbers. However, in the full tensor form of Relativity, Einstein defines the stress-energy tensor as a 4x4 tensor which takes the Newtonian (3x3) concept of stress and generalizes it to handle the concepts of stress, momentum, and energy all in one tensor.
If my theory works-out, the answer will be yes, but just as in using a scalar form of a full tensor equation, you will lose accuracy of the full "field theory" effects explained by the tensor forms. But don't ask how my equation can be used in a scalar form yet!
OK, but I must first remind you that this is getting into my theory about how we need to take a different view of Mass and Matter so that we can "improve" Einstein's equations further. That being said, we can make a very direct analogy between the 3x3 stress tensor matrix and the manner in which I believe Matter needs to be treated as a 3x3 tensor, and Mass as a 3-dimensional vector.
If we consider that Mass is really a 3-D vector quantity just as Space is, then we would represent the Mass vector as M(x,y,z) with components Mx, My, and Mz. These components would correspond to the "orthogonal" elements of Mass that are associated with charge polarity (positive, neutral, negative).
Now, I have also defined Matter as different from Mass in my theory in that I define Matter as being the time-derivative of Mass. At the macroscopic level we typically call this the mass flow rate in fluid dynamics. However, it is my contention (and our investigations into subatomic particles have supported this view) that these particles of Mass are not static with respect to Time. They are always changing....or oscillating, if you will. And in my theory it is Matter, not Mass, that is the "m" term in Einstein's E = mc^2 equation. Now let's draw the analogy betweeen Matter as a tensor and the stress tensor:
For stress, we said its units align with pressure, in that we have Force per unit Area (F/A). Well, in the case of Matter we have Mass per unit Time (M/T). And you might remember that my theory also wishes to treat Time as a 3-D vector as well (T-past, T-present, T-future).
So, just like we had nine elements of the stress tensor matrix, and we designated each element of the matrix with two subscripts, we can do the same thing for Matter. So this would result in what I call:
_____The Matter Tensor Matrix______
{Matter(x-x)___Matter(x-y)___Matter(x-z)}
{Matter(y-x)___Matter(y-y)___Matter(y-z)}
{Matter(z-x)___Matter(z-y)___Matter(z-z)}
In this tensor matrix, the first subscript corresponds to the specific charge polarities of Mass associated with this Matter. The second subscript corresponds to the specific vector component of Time (past, present, future).
Now, if this tensor treatment of Matter "works out" as I move forward, this is going to mean something very speific with respect to the SpaceTime metric (c^2) portion of Einstein's equation. In order for the Matter tensor to multiply properly with "c^2", this means that "c^2" must at least be a 3-D vector, and it could quite possibly be a 3x3 tensor quantity just like Matter. How these two terms multiply together, and how their result (Energy) is measured with respect to dimensionality is dependent upon which indices of the Matter tensor (above) and the SpaceTime vector or tensor are covariant indices vs. contravariant indices. This is a more advanced topic in tensors that I have not dealt with yet in the "Vector & Tensor Fundamentals" thread.
RMT