I think I am from the future, but I can't remember

axus

Temporal Novice
I think I am from the future, but I can\'t remember

If I am from the future and time travel to the past is only possible if I have no knowledge I am from the future, how can I know for sure that I am not? Therefore, I think I am, I just can't remember. Can you help me to prove I am or I am not?
 
Re: I think I am from the future, but I can\'t remember

if you remember about the Great Catastrophe? and the Visitor....

write back... :oops:
 
Re: I think I am from the future, but I can\'t remember

I am trying to remember the Great Catastrophe and the Visitor, but haven't yet. If I do, will I instantly be transferred back to my time in the future?
 
Re: I think I am from the future, but I can\'t remember

Axus,

My grandfather was 85 years old and still playing golf. But he came home one day and told my grandmother than he was giving it up because his eyesight was failing. Sad, but true. Grandmom asked him why he didn't golf with his brother. Gramps responded saying that his brother was 100 years old! Grandma reminded him though that was true, he had perfect eyesight.

The next day they golfed together. Gramps drove off the first tee. He asked his brother if he saw the ball. Great Uncle said of course he saw the ball. He has perfect eyesight. Gramps asked him where the ball landed. Great Uncle said, "I don't remember."
 
Re: I think I am from the future, but I can\'t remember

"Axus,

My grandfather was 85 years old and still playing golf. But he came home one day and told my grandmother than he was giving it up because his eyesight was failing. Sad, but true. Grandmom asked him why he didn't golf with his brother. Gramps responded saying that his brother was 100 years old! Grandma reminded him though that was true, he had perfect eyesight.

The next day they golfed together. Gramps drove off the first tee. He asked his brother if he saw the ball. Great Uncle said of course he saw the ball. He has perfect eyesight. Gramps asked him where the ball landed. Great Uncle said, "I don't remember."


I wish I couldn't remember this post
 
Re: I think I am from the future, but I can\'t remember

If I am from the future and time travel to the past is only possible if I have no knowledge I am from the future, how can I know for sure that I am not? Therefore, I think I am, I just can't remember. Can you help me to prove I am or I am not?

"We are to admit no more causes of natural things than such as are both true and sufficient to explain their appearances." - Isaac Newton

Well most time travel theories bump up against the limits of known physics. Time is considered the 4th dimension. It seems we have movement in all directions in three dimensions but we only have movement in 1 direction in the 4th dimension. So, your brain can not process memories backwards from the 4th dimension. There are some scientist that even question whether travel in the 4th dimension is even possible going backwards but to time travel forward into the future all you need to do is increase your velocity. By going faster it is possible to age 1 day while the universe ages a million years. So, if you want to remember things from the future you have to fix the 4th dimension problem.

You can think of the 4th dimension like this. Say you take a movie and take all the frames in the movie and save them as pictures on your computer in the order that the frames appear in the movie. Now you view those pictures looking at all of them as thumbnails. Your seeing the movie now from the 4th dimension. But, now if you watch the movie you only see 1 frame at a time. Now your viewing the movie in your normal 3 dimensions. In real life you can only watch the universe as if it was a movie it is not possible yet for others to get all the frames and look at them at the same time. Hopes this helps.
 
Re: I think I am from the future, but I can\'t remember

Thanks Darby.
Very funny, yet very profound.
What do we value more our sight or our insight?
 
Re: I think I am from the future, but I can\'t remember

Thanks Reactor.
“Say you take a movie and take all the frames in the movie and save them as pictures on your computer in the order that the frames appear in the movie. Now you view those pictures looking at all of them as thumbnails. Your seeing the movie now from the 4th dimension.”
This is great information for 4th dimension sight, but what would 4th dimension sound be like. Watching a movie without sound is boring. If I can figure out how to do this, I plan on watching all my movies this way.
 
Re: I think I am from the future, but I can\'t remember

Thanks Darby.
Very funny, yet very profound.
What do we value more our sight or our insight?

I think that my first thought was my sight. But I can't remember. I'll have to consult with Goo-ooo-ROO.
 
Re: I think I am from the future, but I can\'t remember

axus,

Reactor made reference, appropriately, to the fact that we can move virtually in any direction in 3D space but only seem to be able to move in one direction, forward, on the time axis.

The evidence seems clear that that is the case, at least today. And there's experimental evidence to back that up.

Let's do a gedanken experiment to see what I mean:

We start from the perspective of posing a theory that all actions, reactions and interactions can be run both forward in time and reversed in time such that we start our experiment with our system in state |A>, have it evolve and at a later time end in state |B>. We then run the experiment in reverse time by starting in state |B>, have the system interact in exactly the same manner with the same "objects" but in reverse order and end up back in state |A>. The question that we ask ourselves is is this true?

Here's the experimental design:

We have a light beam emitter. It sends out a beam of light toward a mirror. The light beam is in state |A>, white light, when we emit it. It strikes the mirror, is reflected back towards the laser emitter and is detected there. Ignoring the effects of the mirror, which in our gedanken doesn't change the lights frequency in a measurable way, we determine that the reverse process is exactly the same as the forward process. It doesn't make any difference whether we run the experiment forward or backward in time. We began and ended in state |A>.

Next we change the experiment somewhat. We insert a blue lens half way between the emitter and mirror. We have the emitter radiate a beam of white light. It arrives at and passes through the blue lens. The red and green frequencies of the white mixed state |A> light are filtered out and the light leaving the lens is in pure state |B>, blue light. It arrives at the mirror, is reflected and reverses course. It arrives at the lens, passes through and leaves the mirror still in state |B>, blue light. It arrives back at the laser in state |B>.

We now think about real mirrors in the first part of the experiment. Real mirrors do affect the frequency of the light. The real world result of part one of the experiment is the same as part two. The light was altered by an intermediate interaction and reversing the time axis can't undo that effect.

Changing the frequency of the light by an intermediary action is irreversible. Running the clock backwards won't undo this irreversible process. This means that there is a difference between forward and backwards in time. It is not symmetric. The entropy of the system seems to increase no matter which direction in proper time the system moves. If the situation was symmetric then on reversing the time and running the system backwards there should be a decrease in entropy, something that non-time traveling observers never observe on the macro scale. Furthermore, if running the system backwards in tme causes an increase in entropy in the past that means that in the future the total entropy of the system was less than it was in the past, again, a situation never observed on the macro scale.
 
Re: I think I am from the future, but I can\'t remember

Wow! Neat stuff! You guys are great!
Ok, questions:
It sends out a beam of light toward a mirror. The light beam is in state |A>, white light, when we emit it. It strikes the mirror, is reflected back towards the laser emitter and is detected there.
Is the mirror set at an angle, or does the light beam traverse the exact space? If the light is traveling on the same course, is it the emitted or the reflected light we are seeing?

The red and green frequencies of the white mixed state |A> light are filtered out and the light leaving the lens is in pure state |B>, blue light.
Can some sort of prism be set "gedanken speaking", at the |A> end of the filter to change the blue light back to white? Obviously I do not hold the same superior intellect as you, but just asking.

If the situation was symmetric then on reversing the time and running the system backwards there should be a decrease in entropy, something that non-time traveling observers never observe on the macro scale. Furthermore, if running the system backwards in tme causes an increase in entropy in the past that means that in the future the total entropy of the system was less than it was in the past, again, a situation never observed on the macro scale.
Truly, a dizzying intellect.
 
Re: I think I am from the future, but I can\'t reme

Truly, a dizzying intellect.

you have only scratched the surface. just wait until you see how deep the rabbit hole goes.



he is the goo-roo for a reason after all.
 
Re: I think I am from the future, but I can\'t reme

Rabbit hole?
Is this like a worm hole?
I must know!
Is there any required reading on the subject?
 
Re: I think I am from the future, but I can\'t reme

what i mean is: darby is very smart. any conversation with him is worthwhile and fun. it is also an adventure all in itself.

forget the rabbit hole. its just a way to express how deep this individual is. he's heavy maaaan. /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Is there any required reading on the subject?

no, but heres a few videos to ponder on. /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0GAjK64VZg


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDP1HNlRE1E&feature=related
 
Re: I think I am from the future, but I can\'t remember

axus,

Can some sort of prism be set "gedanken speaking", at the |A> end of the filter to change the blue light back to white?

No. Blue light is a pure state. White light is a mixed state. You can't add back in what's been removed by using only the resulting state of "what's been removed". To make blue light white you have to open the otherwise closed system to the "outside world" - you have to add something that is no longer present in the system.

Now you might ask, but the red and green frequencies were "trapped" by the lens. THat's true. The electrons in the matter making up the lens were excited and jumped to higher orbitals when they absorbed the energy of the filtered frequencies. But in the mean time the electrons shed the photonic energy and radiated them randomly...the electrons dropped back to their ground state. There's no red or green for the blue to absorb, even if the blue photons could absord those frequencies, when it returns.

The lens is blue, not green, red or somewhere between yellow and orange (the combination of red and green). If the lens is blue it transmits blue and absorbs "not blue". The prism isn't going to make blue light white because a prism defracts the individual frequencies (colors) into bands no matter which direction in time or space you run the light through. If red and green aren't present then the output of the priism will not contain either red or green (unless you add something before the blue light enters the prism).
 
Re: I think I am from the future, but I can\'t remember

How about an optical cavity with vibrating mirrors. Doppler shift anyone? :oops:
 
Re: I think I am from the future, but I can\'t reme

what i mean is: darby is very smart. any conversation with him is worthwhile and fun

I don,t totally agree. He is smart but he does have his limits. Usually I've notice he trys to keep things more than simple. And for conversation being worthwhile and fun with him sometimes that depends on his mood. He can make not so very nice and even very blunt comments even when the other person is trying to be serious and ment no offense. Over all though he does say something useful from time to time.
 
Re: I think I am from the future, but I can\'t remember

And I'll add this tidbit:

When the white light hit the lens the light beam had a certain momentum. Photons do have mass, thus momentum, even if light has no rest mass. The red and green frequencies added a momentum vector to the lens. If we view our system as floating in deep outer space, free of any other fields we can see that the lens was accelerated along the +x axis if we consider the direction of the light beam as moving along the +x axis. The resulting blue beam goes on its way along the +x axis. In the mean time the absorbed photons are radiated away in a random pattern as the electrons drop back to their ground state. The pattern is generally along the +x axis. The internal "vibrations" imparted to the sum of the molecules of the lens plus the momentum vectors of the emitted photons do, together on summation, conserve the momentum. The net average momentum is along the +x axis and equal to the lost momentum of the now blue beam of light.

BUt some of the total momentum of the lens itself is lost when the absorbed photons are emitted and the individual electrons of the lens' molecules drop back to their ground state. When the reflected blue light beam returns not only does the light not return to white, the velocity vector of the lens does not return to its initial state. It will not return to a state of rest WRT the emitter as it was before the light beam was transmitted from the emitter.

Once again, time reversal of the system does not absolutely reflect or return the system to its initial state. Net momentum is conserved, net mass-energy is conserved, net velocity is conserved but the system as a whole does not return to its initial state. All conservation laws are obeyed, the 2nd law of thermodynamics is complied with. But time reversal is not equal to time forward.

The same can be said of the emitter. When it initially emitted the white light it had a back reaction (for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction...we do remember that). The blue light, upon returning, has less mass thus less momentum that the initial light emitted. When it strikes the detector, which is attached to the same apparatus as the emitter, the imparted momentum to the emitter-receiver apparatus will not double.

Yet another clue to the asymmetry of time reversal involving an intermediary action. It's also a third (fourth?) clue about time reversal assymetry. The return of the blue light along the -x axis could never cause the emitter-detector to come to rest WRT the initial state ofthe system (the emitter, lens and mirror at rest WRT to each other) no matter what its momentum was. The initial back reaction was to accelerate the emitter-detector apparatus along the -x axis. The return light further increased that acceleration. The net for the system plus the emitted photons is zero, but the system, in configuration space, is totally different and will never return to its initial state without some outside source of energy carefully reconfiguring the system.
 
Re: I think I am from the future, but I can\'t reme

He can make not so very nice and even very blunt comments even when the other person is trying to be serious and ment no offense. Over all though he does say something useful from time to time.

thats pretty blunt...

guess its all perspective.
 
Re: I think I am from the future, but I can\'t reme

Good stuff.
Thanks for the links Ruthless.
Shatner the artist. Cedric the entertainer.
Try Walken the philosopher.
 
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