I got the first post!!

I still think it would be easier for others, (read : be seen by more people and receive more feedback) if what you were talking about now had it's own thread.

And, my point was, if it's the frequency that changes, it would be nice if we could search a public database for all the "normal" reasons that would cause such a change, and see what you have done to rule them out.
 
Einstein,

I do have to point out that Einstein put many of his visualizations into a mathematical format that he had no way of knowing if it was correct or not.

Is this some sort of attempt to minimize either "E=mc^2" or any other number of more explicit versions of the STR and GTR equations? In my opinion this is a mischaracerization of Einstein's work. He OFTEN had more than one way of knowing if his work COULD be correct, and mathematical formalism with dimensional analysis is only one tool that scientists (including Einstein) utilize. Moreover, Einstein was quite aware that any true theory, put into the language of mathematics, becomes testable. I think you often attempt to invoke Einstein to support your insistence to avoid mathematics, and that is certainly a mischaracterization of Einstein's work.

I do accept going down wrong paths as a way to determine the right path to use.

The problem with this apporoach, where you reject the utility of math, is that you may already be going down the wrong path (or a path already tread) and you immediately adopt the fallacies of language (i.e. you call things "gravity waves" when you have no clue if that is what they really are) that seem to support what it is you are hoping to find. This introduces inherent bias and I am surprised that you do not only not see it, but you refute that this is what you are doing. You WANT to discover things about gravity, and so as soon as you see something that you believe might represent gravity (whether or not you can show it mathematically) you adopt this verbiage. This is not only confusing to people who may seek to understand what you have found, it is disingenuous...and even bordering on snake oil salesmanship.

While I admire your experimental nature, E, I must say that I find your adoption of "hopeful verbiage" unnecessarily misleading. It is one thing to mislead oneself with such biased verbiage that has no quantifiable math to back it up, but you mislead others when you, yourself, have no real idea whether the terms you apply are even appropriate.

RMT
 
RMT

I think you often attempt to invoke Einstein to support your insistence to avoid mathematics, and that is certainly a mischaracterization of Einstein's work

I not only insist mathematics be avoided. I demand it! How many people have been misled into believing the answers can be found in mathematics? Did you mislead any? I was mislead. I'm just a bit pissed off about that. Mathematics is just cartoon science. A realm of fictional pursuits. Yet I still have hope. For now I just have to accept that my explorations must fall outside the realm of mathematics.

(i.e. you call things "gravity waves" when you have no clue if that is what they really are) ... and even bordering on snake oil salesmanship.

I just use simple logic. I'm using an acceleration sensor. The sensor measures mechanical and gravitational acceleration. I've ruled out mechanical acceleration as a source of the waves displayed on my oscilloscope. So all that's left is gravitational acceleration. I even went to considerable lengths to rule out the possiblity that the waves could be ultrasound. The waves pass through everything unimpeded. I tried a different sensor with a different resonant frequency. Since that was a suggestion of yours. I even replaced my existing sensor. None of the sensors pickup gravity wave oscillations at their resonant frequencies. But they all pickup gravity wave oscillations at specific frequency locations over the small available portion of the EM spectrum that I have investigated.

So I'm really at a loss to try and understand why you are so sure these waves are not gravity waves. Do you know something more about the phenomena than you're letting on? Because I'm not trying to mislead anyone.
 
I propose banning Einstein from the Real Science forum. There are more appropriate places for this blather.

At the very least, his posts should be removed from here.
 
"I propose banning Einstein from the Real Science forum. There are more appropriate places for this blather."

you know, i used to think einstein was a real nutcase. that is, until i started to research his antigravity device. i know this stuff probably shouldnt be posted in the real science part, but maybe it should be.

einstein is a human troubleshooter, and that commands my respect.
 
TimeLord:
I propose banning Einstein from the Real Science forum. There are more appropriate places for this blather.

At the very least, his posts should be removed from here.

I do not agree, but I suspect you may agree with my reasoning for not agreeing. :D

You and I both know that Einstein's opinions on mathematics are incorrect when it comes to REAL science. Therefore (unfortunately for Einstein, but he has chosen the path) he becomes a poster child for how one can delude themselves into something going on that they WANT to be going on just because he does not (can not?) model his setup with known, existing, battle-tested physics. Some people learn when they see "real science" carried out properly, where we attempt to identify anomalies by using mathematical modeling to explain what we can... and what is left is what we investigate. Others need to see folks practicing "bad science" or to use a John Baez term "practicing crackpottery".

Hence, it is just as valuable to learn from people who abandon the accepted (and tested!) language of science as it is to learn from people who practice "real science" with the mathematical trappings that describe (via models) what they have created.

RMT
 
Einstein,

I not only insist mathematics be avoided. I demand it!

Fatuous. So F=ma is just plain "not useful" to you, huh?

How many people have been misled into believing the answers can be found in mathematics? Did you mislead any? I was mislead. I'm just a bit pissed off about that.

A ha. Now we see the emotional underpinnings that lie beneath your rejection of mathematics and its relation to science. Clearly, Einstein has NOT used logic to wade thru his emotions about this subject to get at what is really going on. Perhaps you WERE mislead about the proper applicaiton of math to physical problems. There is little I can do about that, but there is a LOT you can do about that. Just like in any language (closed system) we can create statements that are either nonsense or simply false. Are you surprised (mislead?) that the same is true of mathematics? Your view of mathematics as it relates to the utility of the physical sciences is terribly biased because of you MISUNDERSTANDING of its appropriate applications. No doubt this came from a person who enveloped their lives in math (a pure math major), rather than someone who uses and applies math to real world problems (engineers and physicists).

Are you going to tell me that V=IR and P=I^2R are misleading? How about the Biot-Savart Law? If you think that is misleading then you do not know the mathematical history behind much of the electronics you play with in your lab.

For now I just have to accept that my explorations must fall outside the realm of mathematics.

And in accepting that you commit your first, and most fatuous mistake. While you have never even attempted to mathematically model your setup, to see if part of what you observe COULD POSSIBLY be explained with existing science, you immediately ASSUME that what you are observing MUST be outside the realms of not only math, but existing science. I am not attemping to insult you when I say this, Einstein, but only being truthful: This is PRECISELY how crackpots "convince" themselves they what they are doing is SO revolutionary, that no one could have POSSIBLY seen it or described it before....so they don't even bother to investigate (or understand) the math and existing theory based therein.

As far as I can tell, I do not think you have ever bothered to develop a 3-D math model of the electric and magnetic fields generated by your apparatus. This is too bad, because this first step could lead to many more realizations in your mind than you seem to think. I tell you, developing such a model is PRECISELY HOW REAL SCIENCE IS DONE. Want an example? Look up the names James Woodward (professor at Cal State Fullerton) and Paul March (engineer at Jacobs Engineering, a contractor to NASA in Houston). These gentlemen are investigating (using REAL science) a device they call the Mach-Lorentz Thruster. In fact, I would bet if you wrote to Paul March he is SO WELL VERSED in E-field and B-field modeling he could probably explain some of the things you observe out of his knowledge without a model. But the work he does with Woodward on the MLT is specifically to model the E-field and B-field generated by the thruster so they can separate fact (a real thrust force) from fiction (spurious faux-forces generated by the electronics setups). Until you start modeling (with existing math/physics models) what you are doing, so you can identify what you know from what you don't know, you are the equivalent of a blind man looking for a contact lens on the ground.

I just use simple logic. I'm using an acceleration sensor. The sensor measures mechanical and gravitational acceleration.

And in your logic there is an embedded assumption that I have briefly explained to you before. You are assuming a LINEAR RESPONSE of the accelerometer. To put it mathematically, you are assuming a steady-state approximation for how the accelerometer generates its acceleration signal:

accel = k*force

There is NO time in this assumption. The reality is that the accelerometer (just like any physical system) has a COMPLEX time and frequency domain response (and by this I mean precisely "x+iy" complex numbers). The assumed equation above is the "first order response". I can tell you from using accelerometers in flight control systems that there are at LEAST TWO MORE ORDERS OF "s" (The Laplacian Operator) required to accurately model the time and frequency domain response of an accelerometer. In fact, the manufacturers of highly precise accels that we use actually give us the 3rd order transfer function for their hardware so we can MODEL the hardware effects MATHEMATICALLY in our aircraft simulations. This allows us to distinguish "real aircraft motion" from spurious artifacts generated by the inherent physics of the accelerometer and its electronics.

I've ruled out mechanical acceleration as a source of the waves displayed on my oscilloscope. So all that's left is gravitational acceleration. I even went to considerable lengths to rule out the possiblity that the waves could be ultrasound. The waves pass through everything unimpeded. I tried a different sensor with a different resonant frequency. Since that was a suggestion of yours. I even replaced my existing sensor. None of the sensors pickup gravity wave oscillations at their resonant frequencies. But they all pickup gravity wave oscillations at specific frequency locations over the small available portion of the EM spectrum that I have investigated.

You can SAY you've "ruled out" and you can THINK you have ruled them out, but until you have faithfully modeled the higher order dynamics of your physical and electrical situation, you cannot actually validate that you have ruled them out. Do you think the USAF would accept explanations such as yours for an airplane that was being delivered to them that was exhibiting anomalous behavior? Don't you think reasonable people (who understand the true application and value of math in modeling the real world) would demand at least a medium fidelity model showing what you expect should be going on vs. what is actually going on?

I believe you also have told us that the frequencies are outside the operational band of the accelerometer, right? If this is so then the reality is that these acceleromters are NOT TUNED to provide truth signals at those frequencies. The reason that a manufacturer states a valid frequency range for the outputs is because THEY KNOW HIGHER ORDER DYNAMICS CAN AND DO CORRUPT THE TRUTH OF THE SENSOR's OUTPUTS when operated outside the operational frequency. No acclerometer manufacturer is going to EVER guarantee that any "signal" you are seeing from their device as being "real" if you are using it outside its valid frequency response band. Period.

I can go on and on explaining why you are fooling yourself, Einstein. And it stems from your use of (linear) logic instead of digging in and modeling the complex dynamics of your physical and E/M apparatus. But rather than continue (although I will if you wish to continue) I would suggest you contact Paul March, as he could at least point you in the direction of a software package or two that will help you begin to model the E/M effects of your apparatus in 3-D. Once you do that you might wish to develop transfer function representations of your apparatus so that you can actually MODEL the higher order effects (s^2, s^3, s^4 and so on).

RMT
 
RMT

Hence, it is just as valuable to learn from people who abandon the accepted (and tested!) language of science as it is to learn from people who practice "real science" with the mathematical trappings that describe (via models) what they have created.

Even I agree with that. All points of view in researching an unknown have to have equal footing.
 
RainMan, the very reason for creating this forum was to escape crackpot ideas discussed in the Time Travel Discussion forum, yet Einstein carried it over to here. I considered your point before making that post, but there is no shortage of crackpots in the world or on the internet (even these forums) from which to learn.
 
Einstein made the point that there are anomalies that DO exist in the energy patterns surrounding/within the Earth. This isnt't necessarily a crack-pot concept.

The pictures provided by Einstein may not provide the proof of the dynamics of the "gravity-hill" locations, or the concept of any anomalies...we had a "gravity-hill" that upon closer investigation, was indeed an optical illusion.

What is seen is a road that appears to be at an incline, even with the level showing that it is at a downward angle, the mind has a difficult time accepting what the level is showing to be the truth. Doubts of the proper functioning of the level comes into mind, however, logic has to overcome what is being perceived.

Rainman made a good point with aviation. There are countless stories of pilots refusing to believe what the aircrafts instruments are telling them, as opposed to what the pilot is perceiving with his senses.

The photos as seen in this thread are similar to the "haunted shack" at Knotts Berry Farm in Buena Park, California. The construction of the objects around specific points of visual perception create illusions of anomalies. The same illusion as shown in the Einstein photos is also done at the amusement park.


Even though these are illusions, doesn't mean that Einstein isn't making a valid point.

Earths Magnetic Fields

Earths Gravitational Fields


From these maps, we can see that there is not an absolute consistent pattern of either the Magnetic Field, or the Gravitational Field of Earth.

As technology advances, and we have more instruments capable of monitoring the energy fields, we just might find places that do display the exact things as seen in those photos, without the trickery of the amusement parks.
 
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